Gersemi Should Not Be A Skin

[ELRinley]

"Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing." - Warframe Codex

 

According to this, Valkyr's very nature is a machine-made thing, a product of the Corpus. It couldn't possibly get more explicit. So then why does Gersemi - the "Pre-Corpus Valkyr" behave like Valkyr? It's like looking in a photo album and asking someone "Hey, where's that nasty scar you got last year?"

 

To me, Gersemi as a skin is nothing but an insulting cop-out. An excuse to make an extra penny and make Valkyr into a Prime without asking hard questions.

 

I want to see Gersemi exist in her own right. I don't care if she's "the gardening frame" they joked about before, if she's the feline fighter she's become, or if maybe she's somehow both: a feline plant-mistress. But she should NOT just be a skin... it's hollow and lore-breaking... it's like being promised cake and getting a cupcake from Walmart.

 

And what I really don't get is... after searching "Gersemi," why is it I've found absolutely no questioning or complaining about this? It's like nobody even remembers Valkyr's lore at all.

 

EDIT: At this point, I'm alright with Gersemi existing as a "restored Valkyr" skin. My interest lies more in convincing the devs to elaborate and make Gersemi into a new Warframe as well.

Edited November 1, 2015 by ELRinley

[Kthal]

Honestly, if they referred to Gersemi as a "restored Valkyr" instead of a "pre-Corpus Valkyr", that would clean up the lore issues. I think the Bastet helmet description suggests that it was the first step in fixing her up.

[Shifted]

You sure you want to suggest plat-only ability alternatives for warframes?

Cause that's bound to bring some (pardon the pun) rage.

 

I agree with you from the lore standpoint, but from the gameplay standpoint it's a bad idea.

 

Rename her abilities, give her a different visual FX, but don't change the core gameplay.

[Enno69]

Honestly, if they referred to Gersemi as a "restored Valkyr" instead of a "pre-Corpus Valkyr", that would clean up the lore issues. I think the Bastet helmet description suggests that it was the first step in fixing her up

What makes Valkyr the Valkyr is precisely what Salad has done to her. "Angry, scarred and frighteningly adept at killing" says the description. So, she should loose her abilities once cleaned up...

[Xiusa]

Nobody questioning or complaining about this is due to it not being a problem. Valkyr can still be an enraged feline Warframe without the Corpus experimenting on her. The lore doesn't change. Nothing really changes except now you know what she looked like before the Corpus got a hand on her.

[Kthal]

What makes Valkyr the Valkyr is precisely what Salad has done to her. "Angry, scarred and frighteningly adept at killing" says the description. So, she should loose her abilities once cleaned up...

 

Physically healing and recovering from psychological scars are completely separate.

 

 

 

Nobody questioning or complaining about this is due to it not being a problem. Valkyr can still be an enraged feline Warframe without the Corpus experimenting on her. The lore doesn't change. Nothing really changes except now you know what she looked like before the Corpus got a hand on her.

 

Except that the Valkyr lore specifically states that she is filled with rage specifically because of the Corpus experiments, and that she was a completely different frame beforehand.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Kthal

[AdunSaveMe]

It doesn't say the warframe was made by the corpus. That's an assumption people make based on a poorly-worded lore entry. She was FORGED, in the same way Destiny has "legends are forged in the crucible". Valkyr as she currently exists is a result of the corpus ruining an existing warframe, and gersemi is that warframe.

[Ceryk]

Lore in this game is murky at best, irreverent at worst, and it can always be retconed if absolutely necessary. I'm not even sure how clear of an idea they have had in terms of the lore until recently that they're actually putting lore oriented quests in the game now and have to make solid decisions on things. Or maybe something just changed lore wise as the years have gone by. When they wrote that line, they probably never had any intention of releasing a skin of what she looked like before the corpus got a hold of her.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Ceryk

[Sakyrr]

the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing.

 

 

 

i.e captured by the corpus and was used in the experiments 

Edited November 1, 2015 by Viperbaws

[Haxwell]

By this same logic, Proto Excal shouldn't be a skin. Nemesis Nyx shouldn't be a skin. Applying regular skins to prime weapons shouldn't work. Guns should fire hamburgers, etc.

[Kihana]

What makes Valkyr the Valkyr is precisely what Salad has done to her. "Angry, scarred and frighteningly adept at killing" says the description. So, she should loose her abilities once cleaned up...

 

Just the red tinted tunnel vision actually.

[dadaddadada]

Agree to an extent.

 

Consider skins as something warframes can put on as mere decorations, for the sake of nevur forget. Decorations don't sctrictly need to modify stats or abilities.

 

But I suggest that gersemi should come along with different sound effects for the screams. Something more melodic instead. And different visual effects for hysteria, or a different ripline that functions the same but with a different visual effect. Many little things that don't change the mechanics but can add to the feel.

 

Still, they could have played the pre-corpus valkyr card in far, FAR more interesting ways imo.

Edited November 1, 2015 by dadaddadada

[ELRinley]

You sure you want to suggest plat-only ability alternatives for warframes?

Cause that's bound to bring some (pardon the pun) rage.

 

I agree with you from the lore standpoint, but from the gameplay standpoint it's a bad idea.

 

Rename her abilities, give her a different visual FX, but don't change the core gameplay.

I find it strange that you would derive such an idea from my post. I'm not saying they should make a skin do stuff, I'm saying that rather than making it a skin at all they should've made a new Warframe.

 

Granted, given the idea of patching Valkyr up and giving her a Gersemi skin isn't bad and I wouldn't complain about keeping it around. But I want to see Gersemi released as her own living, breathing Warframe with a quest or a boss fight.

[Senoinya]

It doesn't say the warframe was made by the corpus. That's an assumption people make based on a poorly-worded lore entry. She was FORGED, in the same way Destiny has "legends are forged in the crucible". Valkyr as she currently exists is a result of the corpus ruining an existing warframe, and gersemi is that warframe.

 

Except that's not the point.

 

She was a different frame when she originally looked like this. The Valkyr you see normally only does what she does because of what the Corpus did to her. Her abilities closely reflect this. All the other frames use something related to elements or something else directly influenced by energy/power, while everything Valkyr does is pure rage. Ripline is just a weapon loaded into Valkyr's suit, Warcry, Paralysis, and even Hysteria are all rage, with Hysteria's claws appearing to be a weapon that was inserted into the suit like Ripline. She didn't have Ripline, Warcry, Paralysis, or Hysteria before the things that were done to her, she had a completely different set of abilities, so the skin really doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

The most (and only) logical explanation is that Gersemi isn't true valk either. It's true valk in appearance, but it's just the old Valk after they tried to fix her up as best they could, managing only to restore her appearance, rather than her powers as well.

 

Valkyr Prime however, would be the original Valkyr before any Corpus experiments were EVER done to her. Valkyr Prime, by all rights, should have her own set of powers, and if she doesn't I'll be greatly disappointed. Will DE be smart with Valk Prime? Probably not.

[Shifted]

I find it strange that you would derive such an idea from my post. I'm not saying they should make a skin do stuff, I'm saying that rather than making it a skin at all they should've made a new Warframe.

 

Granted, given the idea of patching Valkyr up and giving her a Gersemi skin isn't bad and I wouldn't complain about keeping it around. But I want to see Gersemi released as her own living, breathing Warframe with a quest or a boss fight.

That ship has sailed.

 

I don't see them suddenly removing the skin and making a new frame out of it.

 

You can hope for Prime, I guess.

[Xiusa]

Except that the Valkyr lore specifically states that she is filled with rage specifically because of the Corpus experiments, and that she was a completely different frame beforehand.

It's not an indication of her being a completely different Warframe with different abilities at all, that's a common misconception.

[Enno69]

Except that's not the point.

 

She was a different frame when she originally looked like this. The Valkyr you see normally only does what she does because of what the Corpus did to her. Her abilities closely reflect this. All the other frames use something related to elements or something else directly influenced by energy/power, while everything Valkyr does is pure rage. Ripline is just a weapon loaded into Valkyr's suit, Warcry, Paralysis, and even Hysteria are all rage, with Hysteria's claws appearing to be a weapon that was inserted into the suit like Ripline. She didn't have Ripline, Warcry, Paralysis, or Hysteria before the things that were done to her, she had a completely different set of abilities, so the skin really doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

The most (and only) logical explanation is that Gersemi isn't true valk either. It's true valk in appearance, but it's just the old Valk after they tried to fix her up as best they could, managing only to restore her appearance, rather than her powers as well.

 

Valkyr Prime however, would be the original Valkyr before any Corpus experiments were EVER done to her. Valkyr Prime, by all rights, should have her own set of powers, and if she doesn't I'll be greatly disappointed. Will DE be smart with Valk Prime? Probably not.

Agree with you fully up until the last paragraph. In my view "being smart" means "not making Valkyr Prime" as imo Valkyr was either created or significantly altered (as you explain so well) by Alad. But if there absolutely has to be a "prime", it should rather be "Gersemi Prime" - and here I join you again, the prime having the "rage" powers would not make any sense.

[ELRinley]

That ship has sailed.

 

I don't see them suddenly removing the skin and making a new frame out of it.

 

You can hope for Prime, I guess.

Sail a new ship, then. Removal of the skin is not necessarily preferable, but rather addition of the frame it represents.

 

 

Valkyr Prime however, would be the original Valkyr before any Corpus experiments were EVER done to her. Valkyr Prime, by all rights, should have her own set of powers, and if she doesn't I'll be greatly disappointed. Will DE be smart with Valk Prime? Probably not.

You mean Gersemi Prime. Let's establish something for the purpose of clarity: Valkyr is Valkyr, Gersemi is Gersemi, and our hypothetical Gersemi Prime absolutely is not Valkyr Prime.

 

Valkyr Prime would not be an Orokin era Valkyr as all other Primes are, but rather a Primed Valkyr, either made by repairing Valkyr using newly discovered methods and parts from Gersemi Prime, thus a hybrid of old and new, or a product of Valkyr being somehow changed by the Void and/or Orokin facilities. Perhaps our exploration into the Orokin moonbase will yield some interesting results.

 

As for the argument I keep facing against this idea: Unless I'm mistaken there is no explicit statement that the Tenno cannot in the future uncover enough Orokin secrets to create a new Prime, nor that infusing enough "essence du prima" does not make a Prime. Yes, I acknowledge that Fusion Moas and the Seer are not Primes, but they are also not Orokin tech to begin with... Gersemi was, thus Valkyr is. It would be enhancing Orokin/Tenno tech with Orokin tech rather than hybridizing technologies that are alien to one another.

Edited November 1, 2015 by ELRinley

[DarthValkyr]

Wouldn't this be the same for Nemesis skins also? Why just Valkyr, how about all skins and cosmetics. If something like this does pull through wouldn't DE have to start with everything? The want for everything to fit the lore is nice and all, but you have to understand the reason for DE to have such cosmetics.

[Enno69]

Wouldn't this be the same for Nemesis skins also? Why just Valkyr, how about all skins and cosmetics. If something like this does pull through wouldn't DE have to start with everything? The want for everything to fit the lore is nice and all, but you have to understand the reason for DE to have such cosmetics.

Because not every frame is explained by the lore as having been crafted by a madman... Most of them are simply retrofitted versions of the original suits, the primes. But Valkyr was "forged" by Salad. Maybe he didn't invent her from scratch, so Gersemi is acceptable lore-wise, but only if her powers aren't the same as the "scarred" one. If you take away the experiments and the rage, you have deleted whatever made the Valkyr the Valkyr, so the old variant can't have anything in common with the new one.

[AKKILLA]

Soo lets release New Frames from the already skinned ones? Not like Umbras coming and these new skins incoming are enough, lets make em all Frames. Great idea, i see why you received alot of +1 OP

[Hypernaut1]

This is $&*&*#(%&. Its just a skin- not a frame. It just shows you what she looked like before the torture. Its a cosmetic.

DE isnt saying you BECOME pre-corpus Valkyr, its just a skin to show you what she would have looked like. Its the same concept with proto Excal and Nemesis Nyx. Theyre just skina, not actual changes to thr frame or its lore.

Heck, they could release pre-Void skins if they wanted to. It doesnt make a difference. They would just be cosmetics.

[ELRinley]

This is $&*&*#(%&. Its just a skin- not a frame. It just shows you what she looked like before the torture. Its a cosmetic.

DE isnt saying you BECOME pre-corpus Valkyr, its just a skin to show you what she would have looked like. Its the same concept with proto Excal and Nemesis Nyx. Theyre just skina, not actual changes to thr frame or its lore.

Heck, they could release pre-Void skins if they wanted to. It doesnt make a difference. They would just be cosmetics.

And this is exactly why it bothers me... it feels like a cop-out. I'm worried DE will sit and say "we gave you a skin, so now we don't have to give you the frame."

 

 

Soo lets release New Frames from the already skinned ones? Not like Umbras coming and these new skins incoming are enough, lets make em all Frames. Great idea, i see why you received alot of +1 OP

 

Did you even read what I said? At all? How about you figure out what Gersemi REPRESENTS before you mock me?

[Gurpgork]

And this is exactly why it bothers me... it feels like a cop-out. I'm worried DE will sit and say "we gave you a skin, so now we don't have to give you the frame."

They don't have to give us the frame, though. That's their decision to make, not ours.

 

As for the skin versus frame thing, I bought it because it was an aesthetic I loved for my favorite frame, who I felt was lacking in the aesthetic department. I got what I paid for, and I'm more than happy with it. I would also pay for a Prime version with the same abilities, because that's what I want, and I personally would like the aesthetic to be based on the Gersemi skin. 

 

Now, why you haven't seen more threads talking about this, it could be because more people have this mindset about it. It's a great look for my favorite frame. People will drop cash if you release a well-made skin for their favorite item. That's a given. If they released a new frame called Gersemi Valkyr with new abilities, I don't think it would have gone as well, especially if it was time limited and pay only like the skin itself. I don't think people would have been so eager to spend their money on it. If you put it like that, yeah, it does sound like a cop out to make money. I'm sorry that you're annoyed by it, but that's the reality of it. It's a free to play game, and they have to make money off of it somehow. The game's going on three years old, and it's all because they've put a great business model on a great free to play game.

[YasaiTsume]

What if the Warframe we known as Valkyr today was known as Germsi in the past? :^)