Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[akira_him]

Posted in here earlier but this explains in much more detail

 

Thank you so much for testing

[Pendragon1951]

What falsehoods? 

 

Ember does not require three other abilities and more than 125 energy to nuke a room. Nor does Nova. Nova can nuke a room with Antimatter drop from a significant distance, without putting herself in harm's way in the manner Saryn is required to do. 

 

Equinox can use a stun lasting several seconds to get within range of a group, after having built up oodles of damage quite easily, and pop that damage with virtually no risk, in a second, without spending all of her energy to do so. 

 

The new Saryn, on the other hand, is clumsy and difficult to use. And by difficult I dont mean challenging, or engaging. I mean cumbersome. And add to that, the only thing you get from the effort is a quarter second stun and a "nuke" that is about as powerful as Volt's. 

 

It might of course be possible to get slightly better damage than this. Provided you are willing to melee. Which I'm not. Not with a low armor, low health frame whose decoy has no survivability nor aggro draw. There are - just off the top of my head - four frames in the game who excel at melee to a degree which absolutely shames Saryn in the role. So tell me why I would use Saryn as a Melee frame over Atlas, Excalibur, Valkyr or even Rhino, once his Iron Skin overhaul is released. 

 

As established, Saryn does not excel at melee. Nor does she excel at nuke. Nor at Crowd Control. She lacks survivability and her "synergy" is at present a clumsy mess of ability spamming of that closely resembles an MMO damage rotation combo-counter. Which might work with tab targeting in a game where you dont need to look at combat but fails utterly in Warframe.

 

And the same can be said for damage over time. Justice procs are literally killing my enemies before Saryn can. Reliably. And that's when playing solo. Whereas Saryn once cleared rooms for people - or parts of rooms, anyway; Miasma radius was never GOOD - now people need to clear rooms for Saryn, and then WAIT on her to get her combo going. With the damage other frames and weapons can deal, why WAIT on damage over time in Warframe, when you can simply use something that kills or crowd controls things RIGHT NOW?

 

Saryn has no role, no point, no purpose. She contributes nothing to a team. There exists literally no reason to play this iteration of Saryn. 

Everyone on this page makes good points to improving this current iteration of Saryn, but I have to agree with the above quote that she is actually more cumbersome to use. I still don't understand how having to press 2-1-4 is practical in a fast moving game like Warframe. I also wonder why DE is so afraid of nukers in a game where endless amount of enemies mindlessly attack you, so why can't there be a place for a nuker frame? I don't think of myself as an expert player but I think I'm a pretty solid one and open to change and I did do quite a bit experimenting yesterday and on just a exterminate with level 30 corpus I had to use 2 revives because doing the 2-1-4 kept putting me in danger a lot of the time. I really suggest her shields need to be increased if you want her not only be in the midst of battle but as a melee frame as well.

[akira_him]

Everyone on this page makes good points to improving this current iteration of Saryn, but I have to agree with the above quote that she is actually more cumbersome to use. I still don't understand how having to press 2-1-4 is practical in a fast moving game like Warframe. I also wonder why DE is so afraid of nukers in a game where endless amount of enemies mindlessly attack you, so why can't there be a place for a nuker frame? I don't think of myself as an expert player but I think I'm a pretty solid one and open to change and I did do quite a bit experimenting yesterday and on just a exterminate with level 30 corpus I had to use 2 revives because doing the 2-1-4 kept putting me in danger a lot of the time. I really suggest her shields need to be increased if you want her not only be in the midst of battle but as a melee frame as well.

Stand still, don't move, than 2-1-4 very quickly, now you get your nice cheese of damage! /s

stand still, seriously?

Edited November 6, 2015 by akira_him

[BattledOne]

You're spot on. And yes, simply raising her armor/health won't do the trick, she needs her abilities to have CC to actually have a chance at being viable.

I mean she doesn't have to be be a CC monster, just some stagger/slow on Spores, Dec Molt having an interval during which it can't be killed and Miasma perhaps actually scaling the stun-dance with duration(I mean they're getting their face and body melted, why do they suddenly ignore it after 1 second).

Edited November 6, 2015 by BattledOne

[SomeCrackHead]

lol people.. why do u all bother typing suggestions here? and about what needs to be done and what needs to stay? we all know what happened to excalibur. like 150 pages or something before i quit warframe, and NONE of the suggestions were applied. NONEEEEEE. read the old patch notes, what was changed? hotfixes...

 

since equinox and atlas are out, i might play a bit to try these out now.

excalibur and saryn are the two broken frames i'm not playing anymore, even though power hungry people likes excalibur atm, but that's not the point, he keeps hurting my eyes, and there are stuff about him that is impossible to like

Edited November 6, 2015 by SomeCrackHead

[XxCurtennoxX]

You're spot on. And yes, simply raising her armor/health won't do the trick, she needs her abilities to have CC to actually have a chance at being viable.

I mean she doesn't have to be be a CC monster, just some stagger/slow on Spores, Dec Molt having an interval during which it can't be killed and Miasma perhaps actually scaling the stun-dance with duration(I mean they're getting their face and body melted, why do they suddenly ignore it after 1 second).

Nah, they'll increase stun duration of Miasma through an augment instead ;)

Your math is super wonky, here's what I got:

 

 

The %Change is roughly -10.5% when using all mods, -11% when using some like SF or AA

 

She went from being 5th to being 6th tankiest, just under the survivability of Rhino P

That seems like better math. However I must point out that once you take Chroma's vex armour into account, he easily joins Valkyr at the top.

[Rhaenxys]

Few suggestions:

 

- Revert back her base hp to 150, raise her armor 200-300.

 

- Molt scales with saryn hp/shield and armor values, also transfers 50% damage taken from saryn to molt.

 

- Enemies affected by spore have a small initial stun similar to miasma.

[Nephilim702]

Posted in here earlier but this explains in much more detail

 

 

This summarizes it all, in a coherent way too. My only problem is that I'm unable to find words that could tell you how much I agree with this.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

Honestly, I find it the same as most frames, even with the armor, when enemies get stronger, that armor won't really matter much, and what gets me killed isn't the lack of damage mitigation, but that I'm too busy cooking up the ideal pathogen (gotta proc that Toxin before using the spores) that I end up having to many enemies up close. In Triton for Example I only notice her Survivability being meh when Corpus Tech start snipping me from far (that Supra really hurts, it hurts a whole lot more than the heavy gunners and at higher levels those things won't forgive you for not being lightning fast), which makes it harder to cook up the pathogen that I want when I need it, so I have to either spot them and kill them right away or use Miasma for 3 extra seconds.

 

I guess that they went with "you are not a nuke anymore, you are not required to jump into the middle of the enemy mob anymore, you are now a beefy caster with a different Miasma, so, less HP".

Molt could offer some kind of mitigation but I don't think it should be the whole duration, but a few seconds as in a way to get out without certain death if the enemy doesn't switch to firing at Molt. But only because Molt is iffy, many times the enemies won't even look at it and will go past it straight to you, so the whole point of using is wasted, and then at higher levels it just pops too fast (while in lower levels sometimes you want it to pop and enemies aren't strong enough, so you have to cast it again to pop it).

[Viper1991]

I agree she needs CC or molt needs the frost bubble treatment. She is fun to play at the moment but things like bombards can F*** you over real fast. or maybe make it so when miasma hits targets which have a viral proc they get knocked out for ~10 secs?

[Noteybook]

Stand still, don't move, than 2-1-4 very quickly, now you get your nice cheese of damage! /s

stand still, seriously?

 

Can you afford to stand still when you have tons of enemies shooting at you? Can you afford to do that when you have hoards of runners coming up to you and trying to explode/stun you?

 

Why would I use something as Cumbersome as a 2-1-4(which drains a lot of energy, btw), when I can just use Excalibur and keep pressing 4, while moving?

 

As for her "cheese" damage, it is only in super ideal conditions that her damage even remotely comes close to how it used to be. To make sure they have a viral proc, a toxin proc, a spore on them-at that point, the enemy is more then likely already dead due to your weapons or a teammate with a WF that can actually kill things. You can't even mod her for high damage without some other aspect suffering because she no longer has a dump stat. 

[mcryseria]

Reduce energy cost on her abilities. Revert HP nerf. Improve her armor. Double her ability range. Problem solve. Optional thing would be to make Miasma have a 100% corrosive proc on cast, it would be non-stackable of course (-25% enemy armor) casting another Miasma on the same target would reset proc duration and deal another stun and DoT.

[(PSN)kira4715]

This summarizes it all, in a coherent way too. My only problem is that I'm unable to find words that could tell you how much I agree with this.

Lol after watching that video in contrast to other youtubers he's far more honest/blunt about her rework 

Edited November 6, 2015 by (PS4)kira4715

[EchoesOfRain]

I think people are still too focused on Miasma. I've been focusing on spreading Spores and have easily been doing the most damage on my team. I have barely even touched Toxic Lash or Miasma at all. Find ways to spread spores, you'll start doing more damage. Throw in a Miasma in there if ya want, too. It's not like you HAVE to use 2 or 3 to spread spores, either.

[EmVaper]

So because ppl are against "press 4 to win" you have to press a few more buttons for almost the same result. And to even do more dmg you are forced to use specific weapons or loadouts. Yep great going there.

 

I always liked to play with saryn because in difficult situations you can press 4 to get out of them. And you could play with all kinds of weapons because it did not make a difference. Well not anymore at least not easy. I like easy frames to play with not some synergy messed up frame.

 

Ppl who loved saryn now hate her and the ppl who hated saryn are now loving her (with some exceptions of course).

 

Sorry MR fodder now. And same goes for Saryn prime if and when it comes. But for me please take another frame and make it a prime forget saryn.

If it still gets here i will rank it up and not use it again. Another frame which is not fun to use anymore.

[akira_him]

I think people are still too focused on Miasma. I've been focusing on spreading Spores and have easily been doing the most damage on my team. I have barely even touched Toxic Lash or Miasma at all. Find ways to spread spores, you'll start doing more damage. Throw in a Miasma in there if ya want, too. It's not like you HAVE to use 2 or 3 to spread spores, either.

because venom/viral proc practically is a x2 damage multiplier, which is fine, but there are a lot more multiplier abilities

well you can argue it stacks with nova/banshee/ember/whatever, but other frames also offer nice CC, and you probably end up a squad (if you need/want to aim) of nova/banshee/trinity or equinox/equinox or mirage, pretty much no space for Saryn to join a normal squad

In raids maybe, but Saryn will bring huge burden to teammates

[mcryseria]

Revert HP nerf and Improve her armor. That or just double her ability range. Her energy cost should also be reduced to compensate for having to use 2-3 more abilities to actually deal a significant amount of damage. Only reason for her to have high survivability is because her abilities have mediocre range. Also molt should have the same mechanics as snow globe (being invulnerable for a few seconds then scaling depending on how much damage was dealt to it). Molt is totally useless pass lvl30 missions and enemies right now as it immediately gets destroyed rendering regenerative molt irrelevant..

Edited November 6, 2015 by mcryseria

[Letter13]

Very informative post. I've yet to use Saryn, but I'll definitely keep this in consideration.

 

I had gotten the gist of her rework as being one that rewarded players who took time to understand and learn to manipulate the new mechanics.

[DrBorris]

Just give Toxic Lash a DR component rather than the improved blocking, Saryn is not supposed to be a melee frame (and currently she is almost forced to play as one).

 

Edit: Making the HP of molt scale better will also help a lot with survivability (lasts one Bombard rocket in T4)..

Edited November 6, 2015 by DrBorris

[Batwing]

II liked old saryn for a bit until the nuking got old sure she had damage but she was boring and her other skills didn't work well together or did enough damage.

 

Now it takes a bit more skill to use her to her full potential and that's what we need in warframe is frames that take more thought to use. Honestly do not see how people enjoy pressing 1 button to clear out an entire room. People seemed to hate any kind of interaction in the game with killing mobs. They wanted mesa to be an afk shoot everyone frame and they wanted saryn to stay a 1 trick pony.

 

My only feedback is that maybe make toxic lash toggle-able and people have said maybe give her the comboing skills thing were it costs less to cast them in unison.

 

Otherwise loving the skin loving the rework having loads of fun testing out new builds and seeing an entire plague spread through the map and bodies dropping.

[AzothCrow]

This. 

 

-Add frost invulnerability to Molt.

 

-Toxic Lash gives scaling DR based on Power Strength (base 30%? Caps at 75% with 45% power strength?)

 

#Sarynfixed #EveryoneHappy #BetterScalingIntoT4

[DrBorris]

Her Damage is amazing, only AMD can really compete with it.

 

What she needs to be better in end game is higher survivability.

[Arghastar]

Good day.

Saryn's ult need 1 more fix: it must remain active so long as Saryn has energy or if deactivated.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Arghastar

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Why does it "need" this?

Edit: not trying to be rude, just trying to provoke creative discussion.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Omega-Shadowblade

[EmVaper]

Ps instead of "fixing things" try fixing the spawning all the way back in the beginning of the map. Or enemies not showing on the radar when you can clearly see them in side rooms.