Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[haze777]

I went on and tryed 3 different builds on her, she is plain terrible now,  i don't mind cuz I never used her to begin with, not a fan of 4 to win and the new rebuild still feels lacking in all ability's only thing that changed is that miasma has no use at all now  XD surely wont be getting her for prime acess  , not even on my nightmares

[Fraggl3Rox]

You could already do that yesterday (before the update).

Or you could just mod your sonicor normally, and outright KILL everything you hit, viral proc or not.

I don't see how this is feedback for the rework.

Yesterday we didn't have guaranteed viral procs on spore detonations. 

 

Edit: also I was never able to keep a single casting of "Spores" alive for 5 minutes.  Not sure if this is intended or a bug but it's definitely new.  

Edited November 5, 2015 by Fraggl3Rox

[-CM-Machete]

I bet there is a re-reword coming (obviously not planned), probably with U18, the backlash is as intense as justified this time, they just made her useless, it's not like when Trinity was nerfed (cheap babies crying because they weren't forever immortal anymore), that didn't happen with most past warframes, idk why DE didn't learn with all the "snowglobe" issue.

 

It isn't even the "change" itself, but its energy consumption

 

What I can't get my head around to get, is... why would they kill a Warframe's usefulness when it will be the next primed one? Maybe they just have terrible testing processes (or none at all) and they genuinely thought this was a balanced change.

Edited November 5, 2015 by PersonalYisus

[--Sensei--]

Who knows what's going to happen to Ash though... his Bladestorm is being reworked. 

 

Praying it's a visual rework and not a "mechanic rework"

[Hammahness808]

DE,

It's the forums so everyone will cry if they can't just press 4 repeatedly and watch everything die.  I hope you stick to your guns and maybe make tweaks but please don't cave to the outcry of the Press 4 to Win kiddies.

 

Pressing one button repeatedly to ridiculous effectiveness might be good for a mobile game targeted to 3-5 yr olds but isn't the type of depth or interesting gameplay expected in a modern 3rd person "action" shooter - Free to Play or no.

Thanks for adding true and constructive feedback for the new changes.

[WrathAscending]

Messed around with her for a while earlier today. Can't say I'm a fan of the changes.

 

I get what DE was going for; Saryn being a massive AoE nuker with really only one build to go for was boring. Unfortunately, the changes have made a mess of her abilities. The targeting for Spore/Venom is extremely restrictive, enemies often ignore Molt (making her Molt Augment a bit of a non-starter, since you cast that to heal and draw their attention away, but they instead remain focused on you and cut you down), while Miasma is just sad now. That essentially leaves Toxic Lash, so the new Saryn meta will be building for duration and strength then going melee.

 

If Venom/Spore was given an area of effect and could remain in place so enemies that crossed it would succumb and Miasma moved with Saryn for its duration like World on Fire or Silence, that would basically fix her and make her powers synergise well enough that you'd be switching to maximise them rather than relying on one ability and melee.

[Tesseract7777]

Praying it's a visual rework and not a "mechanic rework"

 

From what I understand they are testing several different ideas, and it's definitely more than just visual. I'm kind of worried. 

 

Bladestorm is one of those skills that, while it feels clunky and old fashioned, I'm just kind of doubtful there is any way to rework the skill without totally changing the flavor of it. We will see though. 

 

I just don't know how they are going to approach that one... really hard to say. 

[timerwin63]

DE,

It's the forums so everyone will cry if they can't just press 4 repeatedly and watch everything die.  I hope you stick to your guns and maybe make tweaks but please don't cave to the outcry of the Press 4 to Win kiddies.

 

Pressing one button repeatedly to ridiculous effectiveness might be good for a mobile game targeted to 3-5 yr olds but isn't the type of depth or interesting gameplay expected in a modern 3rd person "action" shooter - Free to Play or no.

 

Have you read this thread at all? People aren't complaining about not being able to press 4 and destroy a mid-level map. They're complaining about a "rework" that took a frame that was very good at its job, added some "synergy" bs, shot her energy usage through the roof, and squashed her damage potential into the ground.

 

This rework was poorly made, and as many have stated, is very reminiscent of pre-fix Ember. Jack of few trades, terrible at pretty much anything specific. I'm sorry DE, but until you learn how to play your own game the way it's design says it should be played you'll keep making mistakes like this. Guaranteed.

Edited November 5, 2015 by timerwin63

[-CM-Machete]

Mirage can very easily one-shot entire groups of level 100 enemies time after time, with very little energy overhead, is fast, has excellent defensive capability, and also has one of the best CC abilities in the game.

 

Ever tried Mirage using a maxed-out Ignis with Sinister Reach, 284% Power Strength, and Hall of Malevolence, standing in light with Eclipse? You can bathe T4D in cleansing flame, trashing busloads of enemies per second for a bare minimum of 60 waves if running 4xCP. Add Banshee for 120+ waves.

 

Mirage "rework" incoming. They've already experimented with a bit of a nerf for "performance reasons."

 

Now, your last comment about Mirage is literally the one it should have got the tinfoil hat picture. Mirage did cause HUGE issues to performance, if you didn't notice it before, then you have never hosted a party and play everything on low or you are probably using an i7 with a GTX 980.

[RHuckebein]

Try building Saryn for duration and range. Use Spores and a Sonicor.

 

Turns out that Sonicor blasts can safely detonate Spores on entire groups, instantly applying multiple viral procs to every enemy.  I tested this solo on Heiracon with a Sonicor modded only with Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent, and Quickdraw.  Even though my Sonicor was doing laughably small amounts of damage I was able to clear entire groups with every shot.  Anything that didn't die outright was immediately covered with more spores from the other nearby targets, setting it up for another salvo of viral procs.   It was ridiculously effective, and as long as you're in a target rich environment you can cast Spores once and continue spreading it around indefinitely.

 

Give it a shot, it's pretty cool.

 

You could already do that with Venom, and it worked better.

[Amazerath]

I feel like Miasma is no longer worth using in most situations because of the synergy required. That synergy increases the power cost way too much for a warframe that is not a dedicated caster type. I think the synergy bonuses should be reduced and the base damage should be increased proportionally.

 

Toxic Lash still doesn't seem to be useful at all. Any weapon with an area of effect has much better synergy with Spores then Toxic Lash does. Unless you are going Sword Alone with a tank build, Toxic Lash will probably not help you. And even with Sword Alone, since you'll need that tank build, your casting abilities will be compromised. Turning this into a toggle could maybe make it better, but I am honestly not sure.

 

Molt is still useful, but I couldn't find a real use for casting Spores on it. I had more success casting Spores on a single enemy and then bursting the spores myself (same effect and it costs much less). The damage buff it gives to Miasma is nice, but still not enough to make me want to use Molt as a damage battery.

 

Spores is now pretty good and it is still as fun as it was before it got fixed/nerfed. The only downside is that you seem to need a weapon with AoE to make it really work. Another problem is that the spores don't spawn immediately, which means you can waste your energy by casting the power and killing the target because the spores weren't there yet (this only happens when you are not the host).

 

Lastly, I think there was no need to reduce her health. The increase in energy doesn't justify it because the warframe now needs to consume far more energy then before (because of all the synergies). And the increase in armor also doesn't justify it because it is too small to be relevant.

[Ekpcat41]

I have played Saryn as my fav frame since release and eagerly awaited her prime frame. That is no longer so. With this update you have taken a fun frame with an interesting mod interaction, that could also be somewhat tanky and viable for a somewhat decent duration and completely destroyed everything about her that made her fun. 

 

At no point did anyone ever say, hey going for a 2 hour T4S, lets take a Saryn, she was not OP, she was not Trin, Frost, Nek, Mesa, Nova. No one used her as a long duration stun, she was not Loki blinding entire waves nonstop while Vauban made them unable to fight back. Past a certain point, just like every other DPS frame, she became useless. I don't know where everyone gets this press 4 to win mentality for Saryn because I wanna see anyone at 40+ plus press 4 on saryn and kill things instantly? 

Her uniqueness as a low mp half tank, half nuker, while not as good at nuking as some and not as good at tanking as others, had her fit in a really fun place. Now shes just unfun and clunky and has no spot at all. Like mag, or volt. Even volt has zoom zoom for fun I guess. I honestly see zero reason to buy my Prime Access for her anymore, which really makes me sad. I hate doing the cliche final straw thing, but I was looking forward to Prime Access so much for so long I just really lost all drive to ever even play.

[akira_him]

DE,

It's the forums so everyone will cry if they can't just press 4 repeatedly and watch everything die.  I hope you stick to your guns and maybe make tweaks but please don't cave to the outcry of the Press 4 to Win kiddies.

 

Pressing one button repeatedly to ridiculous effectiveness might be good for a mobile game targeted to 3-5 yr olds but isn't the type of depth or interesting gameplay expected in a modern 3rd person "action" shooter - Free to Play or no.

I don't know you, but Saryn doesn't does enough damage after this rework, as a damage-oriented frame, even in starchart

this community (faceplam.jpg)

Anyway, Saryn should be reworked into something else, like a debuff-DPS frame, because we all know how damage frame sucks from what we had for ember

Ember is now a CC-dps frame, which is actually viable now, Saryn should be the same

[Hammahness808]

Amperex with Spore is pretty powerful.

[Ditsydoo]

Im enjoying the change so far, ive been using spores and molt to nuke entire maps. If that dosent kill them then the miasma proc will.

[KenthNisshoku]

can we at least get 5/6 secs on the duration because 3 secs is hard to make a build around it

Edited November 5, 2015 by KenthNisshoku

[Ditsydoo]

I like that the other skills than Miasma now have some sense and usability since before they had almost none except occasional panic-save use of molt.

 

Modding her thou is reaaally weird and difficult now.

 

Old strength/low-duration build still kinda works like before, but requires you to use all the skills in combos to make Miasma viable, which makes the energy consumption quite insane atm.

 

High duration build that I tested worked very well damage-vise in T3Exterminate, but survivability was really bad. It took a long time to kill clusters of enemies especially by the lack of energy all the time. It's just stupid to be forced to spam energy pizzas every 2 seconds to make that build work.

 

I also tested non-corrupted-mods build as more "balanced" build, which felt quite good, but still has the same problems as other builds.

 

I've yet to test a pure tank build in which I would ignore making any changes to skills. It might actually work on some level.

 

Regardless I like the direction with more active skill usage and making all skills worth using.

 

I also found one animation related bug, which is easily reproduced:

- Cast 1st skill

- Cast Miasma, before the animation of the 1st skill end

->>> Now you can cast Miasma as fast as you can as long as you have energy (add trinity here) without any animation restrictions or delays between each different Miasma casting.

While doing this minigun-fast Miasma tornado you are sliding in still animation in quite a fast pace.

Ah the old oberon super speed cast bug is back.

[timerwin63]

 

Amperex with Spore is pretty powerful.

 

Amprex is amazing without spore, I don't see your point.

Edited November 6, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post

[Fraggl3Rox]

You could already do that with Venom, and it worked better.

We didn't have guaranteed viral procs on spore detonation with Venom.  Now we do, and it's hard to deny the value of being to apply multiple viral procs 100% of the time.   

Edited November 5, 2015 by Fraggl3Rox

[lightdragon64]

try modding for extreme duration and power strength (miasmia as well as most of her abilities really benifit from this including miasmia)

[Heidrek]

can we at least get 5/6 secs on the duration because 3 secs is hard to make a build around it

ummm best way to build saryn's miasma is less duration. The damage is actually 1500 damage/ time. So her 4 second duration makes it 375 per second. However if you lower it to say 2 seconds. it becomes 750 damage per second. Did that help?

[KenthNisshoku]

ummm best way to build saryn's miasma is less duration. The damage is actually 1500 damage/ time. So her 4 second duration makes it 375 per second. However if you lower it to say 2 seconds. it becomes 750 damage per second. Did that help?

 

damage per tick because of rework

 

more duration = more damage per sec 

[hukurokuju5]

doesnt miasma now do  damage/sec now?  neg duration really kills her CC / combo window / damage on miasma

[Kevrex97]

ummm best way to build saryn's miasma is less duration. The damage is actually 1500 damage/ time. So her 4 second duration makes it 375 per second. However if you lower it to say 2 seconds. it becomes 750 damage per second. Did that help?

considering thats not the point of saryn

[Brokenrune]

I mean, you are poisoning things to deth. Why are the enemies not stun locked :/ or slowed in some way >.>?

If De were to give saryn that with her kit, I think it would have been more viable, don't you think?

Edited November 5, 2015 by Brokenrune