Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[bubbabenali]

Just throwing in my 2 cents, maybe it was just the build I used but it seems like Regenerative Molt + Rage is just pure FUN. It's like you have to skirt around the edge of dying to fill up your power meter and then start casting everything. Really awesome, can't wait to try and get better at it to try to maximize the energy gain without actually dying.

Another thing though it did seem like I barely had a use for miasma but that was mainly because everything was dying too quickly...will try out at higher levels

Regenerative Molt is a wasted modslot get a Life Strike and go melee Saryn is suposed to anyways considering the desperate hold on her 3. ability.

You need lifregen only really when Molt dies within a second.

[Vargras]

How to fix her scaling?

 

Guaranteed viral procs which can fill up an entire room doesn't scale? There's no value in halving the health of everything? Toxic Lash doesn't scale when it's using melee mods for its damage? Miasma doesn't scale when you can do triple damage with it in the right conditions?

 

Saryn has no scaling issues. If you think she's only a "low-level steamroller", you're doing something wrong, because she can easily melt enemies that other frames start to struggle against. If anything, warframe abilities should be held to her standard, because her rework scales a lot better than most every other kit right now.

[rawr1254]

How to fix her scaling?

 

Guaranteed viral procs which can fill up an entire room doesn't scale? There's no value in halving the health of everything? Toxic Lash doesn't scale when it's using melee mods for its damage? Miasma doesn't scale when you can do triple damage with it in the right conditions?

 

Saryn has no scaling issues. If you think she's only a "low-level steamroller", you're doing something wrong, because she can easily melt enemies that other frames start to struggle against. If anything, warframe abilities should be held to her standard, because her rework scales a lot better than most every other kit right now.

[bubbabenali]

nd Excalibro so: E E E, what's up little lady

[Enedora]

Sorry, but "fun" is objective, and personally, I find this iteration to be insane amounts of fun. I've stopped playing every other frame and just enjoying the Saryn spore madness. You don't need Hikou to make it work, I listed a fair count of weapons that make the build work just as well or maybe even better. "useful" doesn't put in 60% of an entire team's damage in most cases, that's usually a high bar for something being "useful."

 

I also don't understand why having four specific polarities and seven exact mods to make an "optimal build" is considered less particular than equipping your secondary as a synergy option. Believe it or not, the Hikou Prime isn't a horrible weapon by itself, neither is the Ignis, so you aren't forcing yourself to sandbag your options for Saryn. I don't think the Tonkor is so great with Spores due to it's very slow spore spreading. Just like you wouldn't use Mirage or Mesa with sniper rifles. Does that mean the character is bad, because you generally want to use weapons that have synergy (or don't have counter-synergy) with their abilities?

[Volinus7]

I benchmark on lvl 100 napalm.

My weapon is good enough to kill it in 3-4 shots but what make me use saryn? Nothing.

I better use hard CC or hard defense to halt enemies and make up time for me to aim and shoot.

Even ember is better at that since she doesn't need as much casting time as saryn.

If saryn can melt armor fast it opens the way to varieties of weapons not just hard hitting one.

I wish she can substitute CPs.

[rawr1254]

1 spore + explosive weapon nuff said. Also its more built for handling crowds

[Ryujin]

Just some quick feedback

 

Make spore stun the enemy it's casted on for a good second, since you have to wait for the spores to show up after cast anyway.

 

Make molt scale like frost globe where it absorbs damage for a period of time to get stronger, and remove the duration.

 

Toxic lash should work on all weapons/team buff or get changed completely.

 

Miasma should get reworked into something different. By the time you set everything up, the enemies are dead anyway unless late game, and even then they die from the spores alone.

 

If she's going to move THAT slow, might as well give her a little bit less armor than valkyr. she has a melee skill right? and blocking won't always save you... Unless you guys are planning that for the prime lol.

Edited November 6, 2015 by RyujinFrost

[GhostLacuna]

You are how ever using a best case in your example. You wont get clusters of enemies all within 16 meters all the time. 

 

You absolutely must use a AOE to make your strategy with spore work at all. Take a single target high damage weapon or any none auto weapon with you and the spores wont spread with even half that speed. 

 

Saryn by design now suffer from MAD syndrome. AKA Multi Ability Dependency. You have no dump stat what so ever on her. 

 

You cant dump duration, you cant dump eff because then you cant even cast all her abilities more once. you cant dump range because they spore wont to S#&$ even if you where to use AOE weapons. You cant dump strength because they you deal even less damage then you already do.

 

you have to keep them all in the positives for a mediocre boost to all of them you cant focus on any of them without sacrificing another aspect of her. 

 

Nor can you spam her abilities unless you like to be without energy no matter your efficiency.

 

Focusing on using just one ability and using it well works but only if you plan your entire load out for it.  

 

Molt still does not last even for a split second on higher difficulties nor does it affect ranged attackers outside of its very limited explosion range.

 

Toxin lash is a great way to get yourself killed. 

 

Miasma need both a toxin and a viral proc to deal any amount of viable damage unless you only use it for the 2-3 sec stagger. 

 

So all in all spore works if you plan your entire kit around it. Thats great and all but it does not fix the other shortcomings with Saryns current state. 

 

Myself i only use spore and molt now since the setup time for miasma for me takes to long and for that energy cost i could just use spore several times over for more damage faster. 

[Z123FFSS89]

Honestly, I always thought it proc'd until I tested it an hour ago. But I think giving it one proc would be enough...3 may be too op but then again look at valkyr so why not. She scales pretty well though. The constant viral procs half enemies health,decoy getting aggro off you and the team while gaining health back,and decent cc with miasma(3-4 seconds is enough time to reposition yourself when needed.) She might have became my new favorite frame...until a frost skin.

[taiiat]

Corrosive Status adds more flavor to go with the Theme - but honestly, if you're worried about Armored EHP, Corrosive Status isn't really going to speed it up through this means.

it'll take atleast 10 seconds of Miasma for the Corrosive Status to really be noticable in terms of dealing enough extra Damage where you don't need to compare the Damage Numbers to see the difference.

 

 

people oversell Corrosive Status when they talk about it. it's great for Strun Wraith or something that shoots quickly - not as great for slow things that hit once at a time.

[Volinus7]

Once she cannot kill in one 2-1-4 set due to armor scaling she loses half of her qualities only decoy molt and short stun left.

Melee buff risk getting killed in one shot in the face.

Viral proc can be used by weapons too.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

How is this a good rework when for example nova can blast thing better? And nova doesn't even a nuker. Molecular prime+antimatter drop, cost same 150 energy as saryn crazy combos. Shoot at flying ball that multiplies absorbed damage by 400% with some hard hitting weapon and point mouse to the floor-BOOM all dead. If something didn't dead-it's slowed by mp and receive x2 damage. Blast radius of the antimatter drop is same as miasmas-15m. Question-why would i use saryn instead of nova?

Edited November 6, 2015 by Hekovashi

[Youre_Waifu]

Thanks friend, can't wait for the next nerf to put her into a good place.

[rawr1254]

Corrosive Status adds more flavor to go with the Theme - but honestly, if you're worried about Armored EHP, Corrosive Status isn't really going to speed it up through this means.

it'll take atleast 10 seconds of Miasma for the Corrosive Status to really be noticable in terms of dealing enough extra Damage where you don't need to compare the Damage Numbers to see the difference.

 

 

people oversell Corrosive Status when they talk about it. it's great for Strun Wraith or something that shoots quickly - not as great for slow things that hit once at a time.

So question I have that's being taken from another topic Im talking in lets say for instance every tick of miasma procd corrosive. Would it be op or no?

[Synitare]

It is indeed subjective, and some folks are obviously enjoying the rework, while a great many others are obviously not. Personally I don't want to trade pressing a single key to insta-nuke a room for pressing a single key to not-quite-insta-nuke a room while being forced into a very small subset of viable weapons. With the old Saryn I could at least use whatever weapon I wanted in whatever manner I wanted. It had no bearing on her abilities. The Hikou Prime is indeed plenty viable on its own; I just happen to dislike it. I also don't like the Ignis, or the Torid, or really any explosive weapon. I prefer single-shot and burst-fire weapons.

 

I've said this before and I expect I'll say it many times more, there is a difference between synergy and dependence. The fact remains, you cannot claim that an entire frame is fine based on a single skill and a handful weapons. That's just not how it works.

[Volinus7]

Corrosive Status adds more flavor to go with the Theme - but honestly, if you're worried about Armored EHP, Corrosive Status isn't really going to speed it up through this means.

it'll take atleast 10 seconds of Miasma for the Corrosive Status to really be noticable in terms of dealing enough extra Damage where you don't need to compare the Damage Numbers to see the difference.

people oversell Corrosive Status when they talk about it. it's great for Strun Wraith or something that shoots quickly - not as great for slow things that hit once at a time.

Yeah my strun wraith can melt all armor in one clip. But Miasma ticks many times and it is 360 AOE.

Multiple casts should be able to pull of "total armor removal".

So question I have that's being taken from another topic Im talking in lets say for instance every tick of miasma procd corrosive. Would it be op or no?

4CPs is OP or not?

Ash and Banshee can do total armor removal and I don't think it is OP.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Volinus7

[rawr1254]

4CPs is OP or not?

That's not what Im getting at. We dont want an entire frame that makes CP obsolete. 

[LifeNine]

Of all warframes there're only two flat damage ultimates that can't do proc which are Maim's Blast and Miasma.

 

Mag's ultimate does not proc. Miasma isn't the only one. Also, while Maim's blast doesn't proc, any enemy in the range of Maim will have a bleed proc, so I have to say it Maim does proc.

 

Back on topic: Halving large number of enemies health while causing damage over time does scale because it's taking a percent off the enemies' health.

[Volinus7]

That's not what Im getting at. We dont want an entire frame that makes CP obsolete.

Ash and Banshee can do "total armor removal"

[rawr1254]

Mag's ultimate does not proc. Miasma isn't the only one. Also, while Maim's blast doesn't proc, any enemy in the range of Maim will have a bleed proc, so I have to say it Maim does proc.

 

Back on topic: Halving large number of enemies health while causing damage over time does scale because it's taking a percent off the enemies' health.

He means when you turn off maim it procs nothing.

 

Ash and Banshee can do "total armor removal"

 

Yes but that's for x seconds not permanent

Edited November 6, 2015 by rawr1254

[akira_him]

How to fix her scaling?

 

Guaranteed viral procs which can fill up an entire room doesn't scale? There's no value in halving the health of everything? Toxic Lash doesn't scale when it's using melee mods for its damage? Miasma doesn't scale when you can do triple damage with it in the right conditions?

 

Saryn has no scaling issues. If you think she's only a "low-level steamroller", you're doing something wrong, because she can easily melt enemies that other frames start to struggle against. If anything, warframe abilities should be held to her standard, because her rework scales a lot better than most every other kit right now.

she has scaling issue, namely molt's HP and miasma's damage

[Numbsky1]

Replace here 3 with sarin gas grenade:

Saryn throws a gas grenade at her adversaries  Everyone caught within the gas is randomely affected by one of the following effects every 2 seconds. knockdown (blast proc), blindness or disorientation (rad proc) due to the effect of the potent chemical toxin, it does not deal any actual damage. Affected by power range, duration and efficency. It grants bonus damage to miasma. Can be cast on molt.

 

In a nutshell a throwable heavy CC ability that does not care about enemy scaling and is useful vs level 1 enemies and vs level over 9000 enemies but has a random factor that makes it both potentially more powerful and different.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Numbsky1

[Volinus7]

You won't take more than x seconds to kill in a horde game.

The point of this fix is to allow more weapons to be viable.

And give a proper role to saryn.

If I want fast armor removal I can just use strun wraith or banshee/ash.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Volinus7

[rawr1254]

The HP of molt has no problem since you want it to blow up miasmas only problem is how you have to using and what I mean by that is it's an active skill. If it was a toggleable skill all the setup of 1/2 wouldnt feel for naught cause you'd be doing steady dmg from miasma then those procs would increase it as you go.