Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[tripletriple]

10.2 really kind of missed the point. 

 

I mean a duration buff on molt?? A skill that doesn't last 2 seconds on the battlefield? DE please!

 

All her skills need energy reduction not just a 25 energy one cast on a 50 energy skill. people killing your targets gives you no energy. 

[RiouHotaru]

The issue is twofold:

 

1) People assume you have to combo to Miasma to be effective as Saryn.

 

You don't.  At all.  There's no need to go 2-1-4, or 1-3-4.  1-Gun or 1-3 melee is fine.

 

2) Assuming you need Chroma and/or Valkyr levels of armor or over 1k health to go into melee.

 

You don't.  Oberon goes into melee just fine.  Assuming you absolutely need 300+ armor or some sort of defensive skill to go into melee effectively is a load of bull.  Just pick a suitable weapon and play smart.  I run a Corrosive/Blast Ninkondi because the 100% status chance means I can bowl over heavy units easily (assuming they don't get their slam off first) and the fast hitting means toxic lash stacks on procs like mad.

[MaverickZero]

Saryn's CC is fine.  Molt has major CC potential when placed in the right places, and Miasma staggers last more than 4 seconds on humanoids (slightly less on others.)  CC should be a reactive thing you do to recover from or prevent a bad situation; it should not be a proactive nullification of all possible threat.  

That's subjective and debatable.

 

I strongly disagree with you. Saryn can't withstand groups of enemies and her diversion gets instantly deleted. She's nowhere near being a competent melee frame.

[mcryseria]

Recent changes still does not make Saryn viable for end game activities. Doubling Molt duration is negligible because it dies instantly at high level missions. Toxic lash changes are nice but Saryn does not have enough survivability to warrant using melee in high level missions.

 

Take a hint Digital Extremes.

 

-Doubling Molt's duration won't matter as long as the decoy itself dies instantly. Any changes to this ability will not make it any useful unless you go the snow globe treatment.

-Improve her abilities range! Coupled with her low survivability having a measly 15 meter base range on most her abilities  just hurts her even more.

-Bring down Miasma's power cost to 75 instead of 100. It's not as powerful as before the rework and in order to achieve significant damage we need to use 2-3 abilities first so just bring this power cost down already.

[vashyoung]

That's subjective and debatable.

 

I strongly disagree with you. Saryn can't withstand groups of enemies and her diversion gets instantly deleted. She's nowhere near being a competent melee frame.

agree, melee frames like excal got some serious CC, blind, rhino got some iron skin and stomp, they have the perfect kit to become melee, you can force saryn to do it but molt regen is barely keeping her alive, and now since no more negative duration build regen is bit slower...

 

now this is funny... people want toxic lash to be replace by a new ability... but DE keep buffing it, LOL

[TheBrsrkr]

5. Finally. Took you long enough.

It's been three flipping days!

[Volinus7]

It's a pointless struggle old saryn was a low level steamroller, new saryn is still a low level lawn mower.

After 90+ feedback pages, they gave us irrelevant changes.

 

This is probably my last post about how saryn revisit doesn't fix the main issues.

-Molt dies too fast it needs snowglobe treatment

-Melee frame must have reliable CC disables like sleep stasis blind terrify or it shouldn't be considered a melee frame

-Miasma should melt enemies armor to balance the lack of CC on saryn. Guaranteed corrosive proc on every miasma tick.

-Toxin chaining by spore must be calculated properly on mobs to stack to a high amount.

 

 

 

I did the same when equinox came early[one of early posts of how she needed buffs], I pointed out issues and.... well... I think I should stop on feedback thing.

 

They keep release un-scalable frames like there's no scaling in this game.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Volinus7

[czdj117]

It's not all weird? It is no coincidence entire team of developers on vacation and instead now working cleaning ladies?

[Educated_Beast]

3-5%? Are you serious? There's loads of women playing warframe. If you play public mode, you surely encounter them all the time.. and probably proceed to assume they are male, because most people don't use clearly gendered usernames. Hell, even if they do use gendered usernames, there's a chance you just aren't paying attention and assume they are male anyway - I have a feminine username, yet apparently other players still assume I'm a dude more often than not. You may wish to reconsider your assumption that the warframe community is 97-95% male.

70% of all statistics are made up on the spot :)

Come on, flower power frame, of course I'm going for bizarre! Based on the points you brought up, I take it that you agree with me, that this is a skin designed for the female player base.

Good points were brought up in this thread and I have to admit I had not considered. However, the majority of the players are most certainly male and adding a flower / giant loose skirt doesn't exactly fall into the category of guys googling over their electric warframe either.

The awesome look combining in a serpent or scorpion would have fit the theme as well (poison not mushroom), certainly looked more war-like, and IMO would have sold more skins. If there was any time to create an alternate theme from mushroom to venom, it's when your adjusting the skills.

I certainly would have bought one. I was just disappointed because I do play Saryn and this is not what I imagined DE would do. All of their designs have been different, but tough. Instead I got an arguably weaker (yet more fun) skill set and sweet (as in girl scout and cute babies) skin.

This just looks like an April fools joke. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad some people enjoy it. I'll just stick with my immortal skin and this will be the first skin I do not buy (not even as a collector purchase).

Call me what you will (your probably right), but I hope DE makes another skin for Saryn in the future for your sterotypical heterosexual male.

Off-topic here: I'm older than most gamers, and when I was growing up, girls typically stayed away from games all together. Sure there were some exceptions but the games played were typically different as well (i.e. not war games). Now we have skilled female MMA fighters, women working traditional men's jobs, and boys nowadays are so tied in electronically maybe that's the only way to contact their man...

Anyhow, if you had to make up a statistic on the spot, in your opinion, how many women are playing warfame?

[tripletriple]

After further testing it seems that the torid is a better warframe than Saryn will ever be. Saryn is a very bad frame at the moment. 

[Cubewano]

DE are you even reading people's responses in this thread? I mean a duration buff to molt? more buffs to toxic lash but no improvement on saryn's armor/health values?

 

The problem with molt is its survivability not its cast duration, nobody cares if it can last 30 seconds when its hosed down in two. And what is even going on with toxic lash? Like first you nerf saryn's ehp to make her even more frail, and then you think its a good idea to make her even more close combat oriented? Either bump up her ehp value or ditch toxic lash as a whole, simple as that (would be really grand if it was just replaced with a reliable cc ability).

 

I don't even know what to say about molt, but you need to change you approach because it is hardly a reliable skill at this point. Make the healing effect from the augment inherent since people already only use it for that, maybe give it some sort of toxic aura that debuffs enemies within a certain radius of it, definitely buff its health or something (oh hey, didn't we have the nifty mechanic on frost's globe and soon rhino's iron skin that made them handle scaling real well? hint HINT)

[MaverickZero]

The new energy restore from Spore/Toxic Lash doesn't work with any thrown melee...now a bunch of melee weapons are not compatible with her kit.

 

This feels like a mistake in the implementation or a really bad decision.

[DiabolusUrsus]

I'm male. I like flower aesthetics. My only gripe with the Saryn skin is that it's metallic, which to me clashes with the whole "flower" motif. That is relevant to neither my sexual orientation nor my masculinity.

 

I was also wondering why you were presenting homosexuality or femininity in Warframe as particularly worthy of criticism or complaint, but then I remembered that hubbub you made about shield values back in the day... 

[BattledOne]

The energy restore is very nice actually. I can easily sustain my energy with a maxed Blind Rage and no efficiency mods. Now, why did they increase the Molt duration tho...

[Vardog]

The new energy restore from Spore/Toxic Lash doesn't work with any thrown melee...now a bunch of melee weapons are not compatible with her kit.

 

This feels like a mistake in the implementation or a really bad decision.

 

I don't think it works with any other Melee weapons either, that or my Carrier is stealing my kills and that's why I don't get any Energy back. This 'synergy' seems too gimmicky to work reliably, too many things can kill steal Saryn's target.

[Gelkor]

I'm male. I like flower aesthetics. My only gripe with the Saryn skin is that it's metallic, which to me clashes with the whole "flower" motif. That is relevant to neither my sexual orientation nor my masculinity.

 

I don't get the metalic feel from it too, some color combinations possibly, but it's all a weird mix of what energy color you use, and then what colors you mix because she has a lot of interesting color interactions where the two colors meet and the energy applies.

 

I guess you can get a metalic look with certain combinations, but you can  also get some more natural textures if you play around.

[MaverickZero]

I don't think it works with any other Melee weapons either, that or my Carrier is stealing my kills and that's why I don't get any Energy back. This 'synergy' seems too gimmicky to work reliably, too many things can kill steal Saryn's target.

Outside of Solo EVERYONE keeps stealing all the kills. It is not even funny.

 

Awesome DoT action right there. Edit: Let me be more clear: YOUR OWN DOTS STEAL YOUR ENERGY-RESTORING KILLS.

Thanks ObamaDE

Edited November 9, 2015 by MaverickZero

[Noteybook]

How is the energy restore supposed to work if she's too fragile for melee?

How is doubling molt's duration supposed to help when it still gets shredded in seconds by enemies because of how weak it is? And why wasn't regenerative molt's duration also increased?

 

I don't quite understand what the benefits of these changes were.

[MaverickZero]

Why is it even possible for your own abilities to deny you the energy restore???

 

Who the Hek thought that was okay??

 

As if fighting the enemy wasn't enough, now you must fight your allies and yourself as well. SMH

Edited November 9, 2015 by MaverickZero

[Sloan441]

She's not THAT fragile, but survivability is an issue, especially since you do have to melee to make the most use of your abilities--not to mention to now regenerate some energy.

 

The duration is great, but it still doesn't last long under heavy attack. Increased duration here could be used to leverage transient fortitude for more durability, but that only goes so far and seriously impinges on toxic lash duration (which I now think should be a toggle). The snowglobe treatment is another idea I like, along with some armor scaling on it as well.

 

The improvements are just that and are a positive change. They simply don't go far enough, especially in regards of durability and duration still working at cross purposes on several of the abilities, which are now all key to good performance.

 

Is she better? Yes. Does she need even more? Emphatically yes.  

[Windy_Wind]

the buff is......shetty and pointless. And I'm being honest here. It still doesn't bring saryn to any better. 

 

Double duration for molt? are you serious? it can't even last longer than 2 second in t4 void. What we need is making it more durable, maybe with snow globe treatment or something.

 

No change for Miasma...Still useless in high level content, at least make it have 100% corrosive proc per tick 

 

Toxic slash change is welcome but she's still quite squishy to go for melee. If, you want her to be a melee frame then at least give toxic lash auto-block mechanic like excal's exalted blade while she's using melee weapon.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Windy_Wind

[Judgebanks]

So I just beat the #1 Saryn NA, on my Banshee by using Sound-Quake for 50 waves in Kiliken. Holy Tacos nerf 4 to win please.

 

But yeah when you fight level 100 Corpus Techs as a Saryn, no amount of armor or health will save you in melee.

[MechaKnight]

 

The duration change on Molt is very irrelevant to her needs. The Molt should be more durable, as should Saryn herself.

 

The discount for Spore cast on Molt is mildly helpful. The energy overhead is still high when using full synergy for Miasma.

 

Referring to my previous post, this is what remains on the list for getting Saryn to be decently viable.

 

 

Solutions as of this time...

1) Increase her durability. She is built to get close to hordes of enemies to lay down Molt, attack with Toxic Lash, and deliver radial damage via Miasma. Her armor and health values should reflect this.

 

2) Combo energy discounts. If you aim Spore at Molt, reduce the cost. If Miasma is cast in the presence of a Molt, reduce its cost. If you cast Spore multiple times, discount the cost of each successive cast.

 

3) Increase supportive niche with slowing effects. To help keep Saryn competitive, Spore and perhaps Miasma should slow enemies down by some percentage. This would keep herself, her team, and defense objectives safe.

[Inarticulate]

It's been three flipping days!

There's this thing called a weekend. We office-working professionals shouldn't need to be at your beck and call on a weekend unless there is an emergency going on, and there was no emergency going on this weekend. Saryn being underpowered is not an emergency.

 

 

To address the .2 patch, it's a step in the right direction but still fails to address Saryn's survivability, which is still her biggest problem. She still lacks the front-loaded damage output to forgo CC options and lacks the CC options to forgo front-loaded damage output.

 

A few more thoughts (and reiterated old suggestions):

 

Spores

 

It would be nice if Spores could stun (Impact proc) an enemy the moment they become infected.

 

Infected enemies should be slowed, probably by 10-15% per spore node (unaffected by mods). Spores are big and bulky and should get in the way.

 

Molt

 

Molt should have the same scaling effect as Snow Globe and Tectonics.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think Regenerating Molt should be incorporated into Molt (I was originally against the idea, but I'm now on the fence), and the augment should be changed if that happens. One idea for the augment is that for the first x seconds, x% of damage dealt to Saryn will be taken by the decoy instead (similarly to Nekros's Shield of Shadows), possibly with reduced effectiveness the farther you are from it.

 

Alternatively, if Saryn is just simply made more survivable, then Regenerating Molt is fine to leave as is as an augment.

 

Miasma

 

Make the stun last the full 5 seconds all the time instead of some enemies sometimes recovering faster.

 

One other idea is to front-load damage from Miasma. For example, the first tick deals double the normal damage, the second tick deals 1.5 times the normal damage, and remaining ticks deal normal damage.

[RealPandemonium]

That's subjective and debatable.

 

I strongly disagree with you. Saryn can't withstand groups of enemies and her diversion gets instantly deleted. She's nowhere near being a competent melee frame.

What do you mean by "can't withstand groups of enemies," and what makes a competent melee frame (besides a competent player?)