Deluxe Skins And Gender Skins

[LavenderLaser]

and when have you ever seen them deliver on this? we have two sleath frames that are both male, two poison frames (with the coming archer frame) that are each female, if you view rhino as somewhat earthy based we have him and atlas, i have yet to see a single set of similar themed frames of alternate genders in this game since they said that so long ago. i think de has all but abandoned this line of thinking, to which I believe just making alt gender skins would make up for it quite easily. 

 

not saying they should plunge into it and force out something for all frames, it could be quite a random event, but i'd be so down for a skin that let me be blaze again on ember. 

Nyx was literally female Excalibur at one time.

[Archistopheles]

Sorry Morec0, I stand by my statement:

 

Warframes are suits of armor. They do not have gender to begin with, they have shape and design. To alter the armor beyond it's cosmetics is to unmake the armor. Theme consistency and the ability to identify objects based on visuals are key to design.

 

Make a different but similar frame? Sure, once DE starts running out of ideas. But today is not that day.

[SugarShow]

dat male bashee and trinity

[arch111]

I am still waiting for someone to make a believable alt gender skin as an actual 3dmodel with textures and so on.

That and only that can make a convincing argument.

And like most of us, I too am not sure it is the best road.

[Chhkt]

I'm still trying to mentally calculate the amount of bounce fem-Rhino would have upon Stomping. I'll get back to you in a couple hours.

[Cubewano]

I am still waiting for someone to make a believable alt gender skin as an actual 3dmodel with textures and so on.

That and only that can make a convincing argument.

And like most of us, I too am not sure it is the best road.

this will most likely be a thing eventually, once de allows modelling to be submitted in tennogen. 

[AgentScarlet]

Warframes are suits of armor. They do not have gender to begin with, they have shape and design. To alter the armor beyond it's cosmetics is to unmake the armor. Theme consistency and the ability to identify objects based on visuals are key to design.

This argument is undermined by the fact that the deluxe skins differ aesthetically from the original to a much greater extent than a genderswapped skin would. If DE had decided to use the Orphid Saryn or temple guardian Rhino designs for new frames instead, I wouldn't have even noticed a resemblance to the original frames. There is no recognizable visual theme. They don't share the shape and design of the originals. The armor has already been unmade.

[Bibliothekar]

sorry, couldn't find the source thread - Silly-looking in hindsight as they are

Take this one in the meantime. :)

 

(I was actually looking for a pretty old story that I wanted to read again, when I came across that thread.)

/e: For anyone wondering - this is the story I was looking for. If you haven't, go read it. :)

Edited November 7, 2015 by Bibliothekar

[reverb6]

I want those; Banshee, Excalibur, Mag and Volt to have the ability to swap their GENDER. I want a male Banshee and female Excalibur 'cause it's cool enough like in the photo shoot. :D

[PnOyLeeT]

just patiently waiting for them .. im thinking with in next week .. hopefully :P haha

[KingTaro]

I'd buy the male skin for every female frame and I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of others who'd buy the gender changing skins. A huge market being ignored, if you ask me.

[AgentScarlet]

I'd buy the male skin for every female frame and I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of others who'd buy the gender changing skins. A huge market being ignored, if you ask me.

Considering how often I see new threads asking for genderswap skins, I think it's safe to assume that there is a market for it, yes.

 

Personally, I'd buy female versions of all the male frames for the same reason I bought a single animation set to put on all my frames - it allows me to give my Tenno character a more consistent identity. I see my Tenno PC as a specific character, which includes a specific gender identity. The deluxe skins prove that warframes can be drasically altered for the sake of aesthetics, so why not customize the frame to suit the wearer's gender?

[worminthewood]

If or after these swaps get approved,
you'll want the abilty to rename, reshape the Frames completely,
and it won't stop till you yank the soul (and/or personality), given by their creators, out of every Frame.

It'll be The Old War all over again.

[Cubewano]

If or after these swaps get approved,

you'll want the abilty to rename, reshape the Frames completely,

and it won't stop till you yank the soul (and/or personality), given by their creators, out of every Frame.

It'll be The Old War all over again.

what personality is there to yank out? they don't talk, don't act without our direct input, pose no kind of moral integrity of their own, the best we get is little blips of lore that paint a really vague picture of how one tenno acted in a particular suit we possess which hardly paints a picture. frames as they are now have about as much personality as a toaster. 

 

and what would be so wrong with those suggestions? i mean of course outside the workload (which if de decided to pursue then is no longer an issue) it would only open players up to a broader variety of customization. it isn't as if de is strongly opposed to this either, ignoring the effort again even de acknowledged the value players place on being able to invent their own characters, to the point they'd even warmed up slightly to the concept. sure they shrugged away from it in the end, but it certainly wasn't something they found offensive or absurd to do. 

[-Jax-]

Nyx was literally female Excalibur at one time.

^^When DE first began making the game (not speaking from experience here) I believe they attempted having different gender options for each frame, beginning with Excalibur and Nyx (obviously not named accordingly at the time), but then scrapped the idea. I don't know why, but I personally find the flavour of the frame is as much set by lore and powers as by aesthetic and gender. I mean, a female Rhino or Hydroid, or a male Saryn or Mirage would, in my opinion, be completely out of place. Also, with the Atlas quest, the Mirage quest and I think maybe the Chroma quest, there is clear implication that each frame was an individual Tenno at one point. Which means we are walking around in copied frames based on what the Tenno of old looked like. So if the precursor of all Loki (Lokii? Lokies? Lokis?) was male, then it stands to reason that any Tenno playing as Loki will be using a male Warframe. Idk, thats just my thoughts on the whole gender thing for warframes.

[Morec0]

what personality is there to yank out? they don't talk, don't act without our direct input, pose no kind of moral integrity of their own, the best we get is little blips of lore that paint a really vague picture of how one tenno acted in a particular suit we possess which hardly paints a picture. frames as they are now have about as much personality as a toaster. 

 

and what would be so wrong with those suggestions? i mean of course outside the workload (which if de decided to pursue then is no longer an issue) it would only open players up to a broader variety of customization. it isn't as if de is strongly opposed to this either, ignoring the effort again even de acknowledged the value players place on being able to invent their own characters, to the point they'd even warmed up slightly to the concept. sure they shrugged away from it in the end, but it certainly wasn't something they found offensive or absurd to do. 

 

Well there is the matter of their individual stances of the Warframes converying personality, but I don't see at all why those would have to change or be removed because of gender options.

[Morec0]

^^When DE first began making the game (not speaking from experience here) I believe they attempted having different gender options for each frame, beginning with Excalibur and Nyx (obviously not named accordingly at the time), but then scrapped the idea. I don't know why, but I personally find the flavour of the frame is as much set by lore and powers as by aesthetic and gender. I mean, a female Rhino or Hydroid, or a male Saryn or Mirage would, in my opinion, be completely out of place. Also, with the Atlas quest, the Mirage quest and I think maybe the Chroma quest, there is clear implication that each frame was an individual Tenno at one point. Which means we are walking around in copied frames based on what the Tenno of old looked like. So if the precursor of all Loki (Lokii? Lokies? Lokis?) was male, then it stands to reason that any Tenno playing as Loki will be using a male Warframe. Idk, thats just my thoughts on the whole gender thing for warframes.

 

With the Limbo quest it's confirmed that we switch Warframes, and I STILL fail to see the link between "they had specific powers" and "now any Tenno can wear any Warframe". It just doesn't add up to me WHY or HOW that would change.

[Freelancer27]

Simply, having Ember having a male skin is the equivalent of having Rhino doing Ember idles.

 

Which is somehow uncomfortable in my perspective.

[-Jax-]

With the Limbo quest it's confirmed that we switch Warframes, and I STILL fail to see the link between "they had specific powers" and "now any Tenno can wear any Warframe". It just doesn't add up to me WHY or HOW that would change.

Its a valid point, but that's touching on a grey area of the lore, on what the Tenno actually are. Its never really said anywhere whether the Tenno are energy, or if they are flesh, except for perhaps a couple of obscure references. I think of it like all our Warframes now are sort of like specters, cloned from specific Tenno in the age of the Orokin, which we somehow can wear, but there is no room for Tenno now (maybe because the Warframes were created with Orokin technology?) to create or edit new/different Warframes. Its always discovering or finding parts of Warframes that once existed, and there seems to be no room left by DE and the lore for Tenno creativity or individuality beyond changing how a certain frame is coloured or what decorations they have (deluxe skins etc.). My stance on gender skins is just that unless DE provides lore cohesive reasons why such alterations could exist (which I believe unlikely to occur due to the current state of the lore), it would be impossible for such to exist in game. I'm not saying it is a bad idea, just that due to the way everything is now, it would be lore unfriendly.

[Cubewano]

Well there is the matter of their individual stances of the Warframes converying personality, but I don't see at all why those would have to change or be removed because of gender options.

I considered that, but given they can be equipped on other frames i felt it was kind of a moot point. At the start de might have put in stances as a conveyor of a particular frames' personality, but now they've become more like another cosmetic option, which as we all are aware makes it starkly canon. 

 

Though even if the stances were meant to be applicable to a frames' persona, I'd still see no conflict with gender swapping itself since personalities don't have a designated gender. 

[AgentScarlet]

Its a valid point, but that's touching on a grey area of the lore, on what the Tenno actually are. Its never really said anywhere whether the Tenno are energy, or if they are flesh, except for perhaps a couple of obscure references. I think of it like all our Warframes now are sort of like specters, cloned from specific Tenno in the age of the Orokin, which we somehow can wear, but there is no room for Tenno now (maybe because the Warframes were created with Orokin technology?) to create or edit new/different Warframes. Its always discovering or finding parts of Warframes that once existed, and there seems to be no room left by DE and the lore for Tenno creativity or individuality beyond changing how a certain frame is coloured or what decorations they have (deluxe skins etc.). My stance on gender skins is just that unless DE provides lore cohesive reasons why such alterations could exist (which I believe unlikely to occur due to the current state of the lore), it would be impossible for such to exist in game. I'm not saying it is a bad idea, just that due to the way everything is now, it would be lore unfriendly.

 

If we're assuming that modern Tenno have no ability to make alterations to warframes and all of the new skins are actually old skins being rediscovered, I see no reason why Ye Olde Tenno couldn't have also made gender variants of the warframes, waiting to be discovered.

 

Go look at the preview of Rhino's new skin. Now look at regular Rhino. This isn't a matter of tweaking the colors or decorations - the entire design of the frame has been changed, to the point where it doesn't even remotely resemble the original (to me, it feels more like a bulkier Excal variant than a Rhino skin). If you made slight alterations to original Rhino to suggest a female wearer (e.g. wider hips, narrower shoulders - "boob plate" would be silly because there's such a thick layer of armor plating that I don't think external shaping would be necessary), it would still be closer to the original than the deluxe skin is. Now that a precedent has been set for such drastic cosmetic alterations to warframes, I can't think of any logical reason why the comparatively minor change of gender customization would be "against the lore". From an in-universe perspective, the "no gender variants" rule seems completely arbitrary.

[(PSN)Soju_Fett]

Someone mentioned immersion, and it is for that reason I would buy these.  I'm not remotely sexist, and definitely like the fact that there are female characters for people to use.  I just never main them.  I just can't get into it.  I tend to dive head first into games, because they allow me to become someone else ... An interactive fantasy, if you will.  It's an escape from reality.  It's the same reason I've never liked the GTA games.  I'm not into killing cops, hooking up with prostitutes, etc.  I also don't care to be female.  Again, nothing against them.  They're just as capable as men (and quite often more so).  I just don't want to be one.

 

All that said, I'm not going to toss the game away.  There are still plenty of options.  I'd just be that much nicer if the option was there.  A male Nix?  Yes please.

 

Anyway, flame away about my hang-ups or sexism or whatever.  But I'm guessing I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[arch111]

If the warframe is truly an EXOsuit, the gender-appearance should really be irrelevant.

So what if a female Tenno want to don the Excalibur Exoarmor-design? It is all on the outside, cosmetic changes.

IF the gamemodels had visible differences in mass and height, a very tall Nekros and a very short Nova, then I can more see an issue with swapping the gender-appearance.

But we play a game clearly made from 1 mold: Excalibur. They all share the same skeleton, the same sizes in models and textures.

All weapons and cosmetics are made to be used by all warframes.

I maintain that DE has chosen not to do genders because initially, they had an idea that warframes are characters. The Lore allso tell a story of individual heroes.

"Excalibur was the first."

But now, with the "brain-in-a-jar" and Tenno-ghost, and Rhino-monster-theories and controversies, only the developers know how the Tenno and their warframes work.

If U18 really tell us the facts, this discussion will come to an end. If they continue to hint and play the guessing-game, well then I give up.

I for one will not engage in any more speculation unless we know more solid facts.

Bacause as of right now, nothing says we can not have genders, religious or thematic skins to our warframes.

Umbra, Prisma, Immortal, Proto, Prime, TennoGen, Premium.

Just add a God and Godess-package for gendermodels for Platinum, throw in Lore behind it all and all of a sudden the customisation options got massive.

[Mak_Gohae]

Alright... I hate to open this can of worms because it doesn't matter to be one way or another how it goes, but... well, I do feel recent additions and whatnot have really warranted another look at this.

 

We have all heard DE's stance on it before, that they don't want to make gender skins because it would ultimately amount to a new kind of Warframe. They don't want to put that kind of work into a skin when they could just as easily make a brand new Warframe out of the design.

 

Well... what are these?

 

 

 

And, yes, I KNOW that these skins were fan-made, conscripted by DE to do the conceptual work... Well, so were these (fan-made): 

(sorry, couldn't find the source thread - Silly-looking in hindsight as they are)

 

And even IF the concept art was done by fans, the modeling work was STILL DE's doing. 

 

Now, personally I think there's lore reasons behind why Warframes have certain genders - be it that there really IS only one Tenno within each of the Warframes or Orokin attempts to dehumanize their creations or that simply is how the Warframes have to be made to achieve those certain abilities - but if that IS the case then DE ought to really just say that (though, maybe that'll be touched on in the Second Dream for all we know).

 

At this moment, however, their original standing argument against alt-frame genders, AT LEAST as far as the regular Warframes go, has... well, fallen apart because of these Delux Skin. And don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Deluxe skins, but if DE wants to continue with the no-alt-gender route there MIGHT need to be a bit more look and talk about this as an option - at least until DE can tell again why they don't want to explore it.

 

Thoughts?

 

This is a trojan horse attempt to make it look more like 1 person per frame, isnt it?

[(PSN)Squarehead08]

Mirage and Loki... We need more pairs like that