Deluxe Skins And Gender Skins

[HAYABU5A]

maybe changing the gender breaks the lore ?

 

we dont have enough lore yet to know, but its possible the warframes are based off the original creatures used to create them which had a certain gender and appearance even though the tenno themselves are genderless

 

e.g. ember class warframe is harnessed by a tenno, by building a ember class warframe the specs are per the original which just happens to have a female appearence and if you modify the design it wont be a ember but a new frame 

 

its up to DE to decide the canon lore so we can put this issue to rest 

[Nighttide77]

My 2-cents: pretty sure it's lore related and we'll be seeing it shortly.

I believe the Tenno are actually 'sleeping' in the Void, remotely controlling their warframes via a Void link. This somehow has to do with the Earth's Moon and Oro. The weird Tenno-text message that randomly pops up is due to interference from the Sentients, and the translation helps describe the connection interface.

If the frames we build are simply armored organic puppets, they're probably designed based on the first Tenno to operate the frame. Possibly in their honor. This also helps explain why Alad V was able to control a Mesa also utilizing Infested stuff.

I'd actually rather just have a new male fire-based frame with a different assortment of powers, than a new male skin for Ember. A female Ash with different powers, but still something with invis, would be cool.

[Morec0]

This is a trojan horse attempt to make it look more like 1 person per frame, isnt it?

 

Not as far as I intended. It just strikes me that if Tenno DO have a set gender then they might prefer and construct Warframes that matched to their gender.

 

Which is still besides the point of what I was attempting to say, though that's been lost in the noise at this point.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Morec0

[Witcherlet]

One of the biggest issues I see with gender skins other than the technical side such as the need for new animations (each gender-swap would have to have their own set of stances for instance to translate their personality i.e. female agile limbo?) and building a new model from the scratch is that implementing such a thing doesn't really seem that much profitable to DE.

 

Why? Because while they can release them as SKINS it would cause an uproar on forum from people who would be forced to spend money to buy the gender they are interested playing in. No amount of explaining logically how much work it took would satisfy the people who think that selecting gender in a game is their right. On the other hand implementing such gender system for free does satisfy the playerbase but does not bring back any profit to pay for the models and all the hard work. All prenium skins pay themselves off, mind you.

 

I was thinking if the current new content systems for weapons/frames could apply to making those gendered skins available to everyone but in the longer run it doesn't make sense lore wise and it has the potential to frustrate a lot of players and/or increase grind. I'm talking here about crafting an entire frame from the scratch but with a different gender or skins being a part of alerts (like alt helmets). You could buy off the reskin from the market or pray to RNGesus to let the right parts/skin drop for you, either way it's involves luck and grind which we already have enough of.

 

We get updates for free that take time and money to create but they are more universal and help build the game for what it is, keeping the playerbase (customers) engaged in the content. And as people in the thread mentioned, DE already keeps their hands full with new ideas to improve the game and attempts to fix the bugs existing for years.

[Morec0]

One of the biggest issues I see with gender skins other than the technical side such as the need for new animations (each gender-swap would have to have their own set of stances for instance to translate their personality i.e. female agile limbo?)

 

... why would that be needed at all? Why couldn't they maintain the same stances?

[Witcherlet]

... why would that be needed at all? Why couldn't they maintain the same stances?

DE is about keeping the artistic integrity. Each frame has it's own set of stances that conveys their personality. Like two sides of Equinox has their individual stances, Day is more active and energetic while Night is more laid back. Mirage's noble stance is flirty. Limbo's stances are... umm... specific for him. While there are frames who have more universal stances some wouldn't translate well to another gender.

 

Of course we have the option to apply any stance to any frame as we see fit, but just slapping a skin onto an existing model just with boobs added/removed and calling it a day in this case isn't really in DE's style. 

Edited November 8, 2015 by Witcherlet

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

i'm waiting for the day DE releases ancient skins for Warframes, looking like excalibur as a light armored knight, Ash as a normal ninja with a scarf, Frost as a classic Icelord, Nikros as DEATH himself and Ember as a flaming demon lady xD

 

that day will never come, i know.

[arch111]

DE is about keeping the artistic integrity. Each frame has it's own set of stances that conveys their personality. Like two sides of Equinox has their individual stances, Day is more active and energetic while Night is more laid back. Mirage's noble stance is flirty. Limbo's stances are... umm... specific for him. While there are frames who have more universal stances some wouldn't translate well to another gender.

Of course we have the option to apply any stance to any frame as we see fit, but just slapping a skin onto an existing model just with boobs added/removed and calling it a day in this case isn't really in DE's style.

This makes little sense. What Morec0 said in the OP was this:

If Rhino and Saryn Loki and Banshee are new MODELS, the ARGUMENT/REASON for not making alt gender skins,

Because these would :

"Take up to much rescources, then we might as well do a whole new warframe"

Is bogus since that is what the Premium skins really are.

Stances and animations are allready used and shared by all warframes.

Seen a Rhino using Mirage blowkiss?

So this remain the Point if this thread.

DE could, if they so desired, create alt gender models. These would be redesigned slightly but share the same general appearance.

I fail to see why so many struggle to get this basic point.

[EmptyDevil]

I think the point Morec0 is making, is that the amount of care/work put into the new skins, makes the too-much-work stance on alt genders somewhat irrelevant now. I do agree that there is probably a lore reason behind it now though.

 

I would love to see an Ash deluxe skin that was inspired by his original concept art.

 

[Witcherlet]

This makes little sense. What Morec0 said in the OP was this:

If Rhino and Saryn Loki and Banshee are new MODELS, the ARGUMENT/REASON for not making alt gender skins,

Because these would :

"Take up to much rescources, then we might as well do a whole new warframe"

Is bogus since that is what the Premium skins really are.

Stances and animations are allready used and shared by all warframes.

Seen a Rhino using Mirage blowkiss?

So this remain the Point if this thread.

DE could, if they so desired, create alt gender models. These would be redesigned slightly but share the same general appearance.

I fail to see why so many struggle to get this basic point.

They are shared after purchasing them though. So they are not the canon stance for the frame, per say, the one that was made to fit their personality and what they represent with themselves. The base stance is a part of their initial design. That's what I meant.  Each frame is a certain idea and that idea is conveyed through a number of things. Their design, basic colour palette and stance. 

 

So slapping/removing a pair of boobs on a frame with a specific set of animation is not what satisfies DEs artistic standards in my opinion. Introducing a gender skin/option into a game with a gender-locked classes is a topic that touches more things than just general appearance, especially in games with such diverse designs as Warframe. I just don't think DE would be this lazy in this case given how much care they put into their work.

 

Which brings me to my original point that adding genders might not be profitable to them.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Witcherlet

[Beas7ie]

I just don't think there's a point in them spending the time and resources on making alternate skins just so someone who ''doesn't like playing as girls'' can feel better about playing their frame. I mean, I get it, you want to immerse yourself, but I don't think all of you understand how much time these skins take.

 

The main reason I don't see this working is because, IF DE does do it, then after they give us alt gender skins, there are going to be people saying "We should have Alt-Gender Immortal skins! or Alt-Gender Premium skins!" which means even more time and resources putting into making the existing alternate skins fit onto the male variations, and at that point they may as well just make a whole new frame

 

Notice my comment Morec0 senpai

 

And I don't get why it seems that us who like to play as the same gender for immersions get crap, yet it's fine that the majority of people who do play as gender swapped characters only do so because they want to stare a female's &#! all day.    Much like so many MMO players play as some scantily clad female so they can see her almost bare &#!.

 

And don't get me started about all the Skyrim players who run almost entirely skimpy armor and big boobs mod.

[arch111]

Again: a reworked model. In no way would a male Ember be just given a few abs and biceps and call it a day.

Thats just silly.

Take the above Ash-skin. Female version for Plat. It is a rework.

Hell, if it bothers people that much it can be seen only by others who allso bought the skin.

If DE did an experiment to let us do skins for tennoGen, and then evaluate if a desire for them exist, we would get some pretty decisive answers.

[Cubewano]

They are shared after purchasing them though. So they are not the canon stance for the frame, per say, the one that was made to fit their personality and what they represent with themselves. The base stance is a part of their initial design. That's what I meant.  Each frame is a certain idea and that idea is conveyed through a number of things. Their design, basic colour palette and stance. 

 

So slapping/removing a pair of boobs on a frame with a specific set of animation is not what satisfies DEs artistic standards in my opinion. Introducing a gender skin/option into a game with a gender-locked classes is a topic that touches more things than just general appearance, especially in games with such diverse designs as Warframe. I just don't think DE would be this lazy in this case given how much care they put into their work.

 

Which brings me to my original point that adding genders might not be profitable to them.

If your argument is that making alternate gender variants is against the art teams work ethic, and that's why they shouldn't do it, then i'm sorry but you have no ground to stand on as de has already done a gender swap once before with no issue. I don't know if you were around early enough to experience the start of ember, but originally ember was not a female frame but a male going by the name of blaze, and for one reason or another DE decided a while after his birth that they'd prefer him as a female and swapped the frames gender. So obviously artistic integrity isn't what is getting in the way of alternate genders, seeing as the same person who did that transition is the person making frames now as well. 

[(PSN)batman200087]

I would LOVE to see opposite gender skins of the Frames.

[Beatrix7hearts]

And I don't get why it seems that us who like to play as the same gender for immersions get crap, yet it's fine that the majority of people who do play as gender swapped characters only do so because they want to stare a female's ! all day. Much like so many MMO players play as some scantily clad female so they can see her almost bare !.

And don't get me started about all the Skyrim players who run almost entirely skimpy armor and big boobs mod.

I find this comment rather silly. If you want immersion and realism on your game thats your cup of tea, if someone else wants their models to look like sexy women that is their thing and it should be respected. If a person played a game just to be immersed, you can be immersed either way you can't shove that thought "that because is a game of medieval or viking inspired era, anything else deviating from that is useless crap" because guess what all games are wether they try or not to aim to realism, just a hunk pixels in a fantastic setting. Gender in a game is more or less only relevant to the person or character they are trying to portray and saying anything else is just plain silly opinions.

On topic though, I do like the idea of gender changing skins, but also I see why DE doesn't do it. We can only assume, yet I have to be honest, they maybe planning a frame with similar abilities as their opposite gender's frame counterpart and gives us more content to enjoy.

[Mak_Gohae]

Not as far as I intended. It just strikes me that if Tenno DO have a set gender then they might prefer and construct Warframes that matched to their gender.

 

Which is still besides the point of what I was attempting to say, though that's been lost in the noise at this point.

 

Soldiers are not asked what look they would prefer for the tank, helicopter, plane they pilot.

If the poison frame comes out looking like a woman then that's what they end up using if they want to use poison.

Plus thats how the Warthog got it's name in real life. The A-10 Thunderbolt II look ugly to everyone so ..... warthog!

Edited November 8, 2015 by Mak_Gohae

[Morec0]

Soldier are not asked what look they would prefer for the tank, helicopter, plane they pilot.

If the poison frame comes out looking like a woman then that's what they end up using if they want to use poison.

Plus thats how the Warthog got it's name in real like. The A-10 Thunderbolt II look ugly to everyone so ..... warthog!

 

This is true, but a Warframe is also much more personal than any tank or helicopter that might exist, this is made clear through the humanoid appearance of them and the very nature of them: suits or perhaps bodies.

 

Especially considering these things that ARE built and designed by the Orokin and later usurped by the Tenno (hence why regular Warframes seem to exist at all) it only stands to reason that they would be plenty of variations in design - i.e. these Delux skins. Gender would be no different

Edited November 8, 2015 by Morec0

[arch111]

What say you?

Edited November 10, 2015 by arch111

[Morec0]

 

What say you?

 

Rhino? Feels a little too slimmed down at the waist, but that might just be your style.

[arch111]

Rhino? Feels a little too slimmed down at the waist, but that might just be your style.

I narrowed the waist a bit more than I originally intended - that is directed directly at the,

"Slap a pair of boobs on Rhino" kind of comments.

I wanted this to be a unmisstakably female siluette.

In my view, by now so many shapesnof either gender are available that doing a new model must be really easy for DE.

This for example is based on Embers body.

[Rhekemi]

Part of what makes Rhino Rhino is his size. Even for a female Rhino, that sketch wouldn't work as a model base.

 

 

I wanted this to be a unmisstakably female siluette.

 

....

This for example is based on Embers body.

 

Ember's a smaller 'frame, though. Wouldn't seem possible for her to tank as much damage as Rhino does. Consider using Saryn?

 

Overall, I'd advise making a strawpoll, but stay away from the lore and immersion arguments and counter-arguments. They matter in discussion, but are irrelevant to the poll. Given the addition of deluxe skins, and the TennoGen workshop skins, gender-swapped skins may be feasible. Do you want to see gender-swapped skins for existing warframes? Yes. No. Indifferent.

 

At issue isn't whether it can be done. Of course it can, but as stated earlier, it will still take up a lot of time that could be spent on other things.

 

The issue is if it's a DE priority and a community priority. Might as well poll the community and find out if it is one. 

Edited November 8, 2015 by Rhekemi

[Cubewano]

We can only assume, yet I have to be honest, they maybe planning a frame with similar abilities as their opposite gender's frame counterpart and gives us more content to enjoy.

That'd be pleasant, but honestly is that likely with our current track record? DE suggested something like that happening ages ago and have yet to deliver, frames and frames later, honestly the best chance at getting a variant of the frames we have now in an alternate gender (and eaiser) is just getting a skin for it. 

 

Also maybe it's just my pessimism flaring up, but I don't imagine any other way to fully equalize gender options than making ever frame have the option. (games might think offering alternative versions in the opposite gender creates some sort of a equal field, but hardly ever does that work out how players want, the alternatives wind up with the same tropes all the other classes of that gender have that made them want the other genders version in the first place, and then the player winds up still with nothing but more disappointment) 

[arch111]

Rhino? Feels a little too slimmed down at the waist, but that might just be your style.

You were right. Changed her back.

Edited November 10, 2015 by arch111

[Rhekemi]

If you can use it, Morec0, here's a poll:

 

http://strawpoll.me/5961009

[arch111]

Do not open the spoiler unless you want to see a comparison between Rhino and female Rhino.

But if you do, please tell me what you think.