Has Warframe Been Ruined By The Update 18 Reveal? [Spoiler City.]

[StabbyTentacles]

But that's kind of how it's going to be with any kind of story. 

Indeed, who needs choice in a game right? Options, free will...  

[Mak_Gohae]

But that's kind of how it's going to be with any kind of story.  With a story, there are things done, and automatically thereby some other things are foregone, just like when you buy something with money, that money is no longer available for the other things you could have bought.

 

There's only so much elbow room the devs can give you if they have a story they want to tell (which of course is also guided by "devious" motives like making the game attractive to truly vast numbers of Chinese teenagers - but that sort of thing just comes with the territory :) )

 

I do understand your point though, that kind of option and choice at that point would have been nice to have.  But I don't think it's realistic to expect that they could or would have given it.

 

Just a gentle reminder though - the thing in the chair isn't necessarily a child literally, i.e. DE isn't forcing you to rp a child.  In that sense, what they've done is quite open.  IOW, they've tried to cover all their bases.  They've provided more adult players with something that they can project an adult personality into, but they've also made it young looking and given the emotionally charged "motherly" thing from the Lotus.  i.e., the aforementioned Chinese teenager could easily just rp a childlike personality if they wanted to (and as some of the in-game Tenno VO unfortunately - from my point of view - suggests).  But you're not forced to that, you can imbue the thing in the chair with whatever personality you want, and it can even be your own personality.

 

And that's a fact.

 

(But we've already had a big exchange around that, so as I say, just a gentle reminder.)

 

The main problem is the story THEY created.

THEY created a story where you are used against your will as a weapon.

You are brainwashed to fight in a war, a least a thousand years past and you are still doing the same thing.

When you finally wake up from all this mess the reaction in game is...... meh.

 

That's just weird.

This is a big reveal that changes nothing.

They could've created some stock reactions that could be similar to how the people playing are reacting and then slowly write a story and bring it back to the norm.

 

But so far it's just kids waking up and going.... meh.

[Omnimorph]

The main problem is the story THEY created.

THEY created a story where you are used against your will as a weapon.

You are brainwashed to fight in a war, a least a thousand years past and you are still doing the same thing.

When you finally wake up from all this mess the reaction in game is...... meh.

 

That's just weird.

This is a big reveal that changes nothing.

They could've created some stock reactions that could be similar to how the people playing are reacting and then slowly write a story and bring it back to the norm.

 

But so far it's just kids waking up and going.... meh.

 

Actually, I don't disagree with that, but I don't weight it as much as you do. The person I was responding to said something similar, and as I said, I do understand that.

 

But the response is the same: if you put yourself in DE's shoes, you kind of know that they've got to weigh up the likely return (in terms of player enjoyment, loyalty, financial reward to them, etc.) for whatever energy they put into doing whatever.  I think the degree of pre-preparation of the game for thse kinds of varied reactions would certainly have pleased a few players quite a lot (obviously you and the previous chap a lot, but I would have quite liked it too), and DE obviously aren't stupid - it's probably something they mulled over.  The fact they didn't do it, suggests that they had bigger fish to fry (i.e. things they could do with their time and energy that would have a bigger impact on more players).

 

How deeply you go into pre-preparing game responses to player choices is like "how long is a piece of string", and different people will have a different feel for how deep they'd like it to go. But there are obviously limits, because if you think about it, it can go all exponential on your &#! pretty quickly (I can do A or B, responses for A and B have to be prepared, C & D for A, E & F for B, then each of those responses has to have things prepared, etc., etc.).

 

So you have to cut the devs some slack. 

 

That said, yeah, at that crucial point, it would have been nice to have some variation in response, and some room for a counter-argument or vehement counter-response to the Lotus.  But again, it's not that big of a deal in comparison with the vast, and largely fantastic job, for the bulk of the quest, and the further development of the lore.

[Ziegrif]

Why am I not a gibbering lunatic after killing about 600k people?

 

Life's cheap and I got a galactic credit card or something?

[GnosticCat]

Why am I not a gibbering lunatic after killing about 600k people?

 

Life's cheap and I got a galactic credit card or something?

Hey if you become eldritch abomination I don't think number of people you kill is big thing to worry about. And corpus would likely agree that life is cheap anyway.

[arch111]

I interpret the child-persona as follows.

1. The first dream was all about them using their powers directly. This did not work, since Ballas states that the Warframe Project was a failure.

The Tenno existed in the Void Era long before the Orokin Empire, but all stories from that time are horrorstories basically. Rhino Prime monster and protoframes/infested soldiers/infested zariman children.

2. Ballas brings up the dissaster on Mars. I can only imagine what it was like; people going mad from the voices, Proto frames in berzerkmode killing everyone.

They then must have made the symbiotes and Transferrance for the war. They wanted to kill all children, but found a way to controll them from the Moon.

3. The warframe IS alive. It makes up the second, mature half of the symbiotes. The monster who (might have) once been their siblings.

4. We are the warframe symbiote. We see the child, the Operator but we allso see the warframe. We are both, only when the child speaks to us are we truly aware of the separation of the two, but a Tenno is the sum of its parts; the finale of the quest made this perfectly clear.

I am the warframe. But I am allso the child. Alad knows me, but not the girl in the ship.

But if she were to die, then so would I.

Edited December 11, 2015 by arch111

[Ziegrif]

Hey if you become eldritch abomination I don't think number of people you kill is big thing to worry about. And corpus would likely agree that life is cheap anyway.

 

But where's my tentacles?

I was promised tentacles!

[GnosticCat]

But where's my tentacles?

I was promised tentacles!

You do get some sort of tentacles coming out of your chair. But I was also terribly disapointed by lack of tentacles. Will play Hydroid extra hard to compensate :)

[AcceI]

One thing I don't like is that the kid comes off as a cripple to me.

 

-At least let you have the option to use brat to walk around in your ship once you complete the quest...or is this kid gonna be forever stuck living off that seat?  Idk maybe later on she/he will be able to walk again?

 

 

The other is that I felt the warframe to me was the main body like a planet and everything around it from weapons, pets, ship, etc was moons.  

 

-The addition of the brat just lessens the value of the warframe(s) or rather demotes the frame(s) into another moon and the brat becomes the Planet.

 

 

P.S.  No the Kid wasn't the worst thing...By far, Stalker was/has been the biggest disappointment in U18.  He could of saved the plot by ramming that war sword down the kid's throat but choked harder than Peyton Manning the superbowl.

[Ziegrif]

You do get some sort of tentacles coming out of your chair. But I was also terribly disapointed by lack of tentacles. Will play Hydroid extra hard to compensate :)

 

I still haven't tested if you can summon multiple instances of tentacles yet.

 

It would make my Hydroid "extra hard".

[GnosticCat]

I still haven't tested if you can summon multiple instances of tentacles yet.

 

It would make my Hydroid "extra hard".

Sadly not, every time you cast tentacle surprise it replaces previous instance. You still can't kill all the FPS, unless you get full team probably. Raid with 8 Hydroids would be fun to watch.

[Ziegrif]

Sadly not, every time you cast tentacle surprise it replaces previous instance. You still can't kill all the FPS, unless you get full team probably. Raid with 8 Hydroids would be fun to watch.

 

Boo...

So the low duration build is still the best one because max pwr finisher dmg is greaaaaat.

I wish captain tentacles got some attention.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Ziegrif

[SilentMobius]

1. The first dream was all about them using their powers directly. This did not work, since Ballas states that the Warframe Project was a failure.

 

Where does Balas State that the Warframe project was a failure? He stated the "crewman project" was a failure in the Crewman Synthesis, but I don't recall any comment on the "Warframe project"

[Jowain]

A gimicky laser weapon and an occasional plot device, that's what we're all fighting over. I think the intial angry feelings over not being a warrior in a cool suit are justified, when considering the fact that the fanbases headcanon is actually BETTER than DE's own idea.

 

Yes, it's BETTER, because had they given that to the players, everyone (almost) would have been happy and the only thing needed was giving each Warframe a headslot for a human (or alien) face.

 

From am immersive gameplay perspective, the Operator does literally nothing else but serving as a powerful weapon to the player. You still play as the Warframe, you do everything as the Warframe, even petting your Kubrow, who's in the SAME LIVING SPACE as you supposedly "real" self.

What irritates me now is that this is all we got. This was DE's big deal? From a lore perspective yes, but from a gameplay perspective? It's a yawn, the character customization is laughable, 2015 and we have preselect faces and hairstyle counted on one hand from 2005.

 

Fallout 4 introduced face sculpting, a game called Black Desert has some of the greatest character customization I've ever seen and this is what DE cranks out and all the seals clap their flippers and call it amazing!?

 

Changing your Tenno's face is the same as customizing your weapon, upgrading Focus is upgrading your weapon, using Focus in game is FIRING YOUR DAMN WEAPON.

And when will the character actually matter in the game? When will their presence be called for? Next time we have a plot driven quest and when the hell will that be? At the end of next year!?

 

The fanbases headcanon, Tenno wearing Warframes as armor IS better, because all the work is already done, playing the game, interacting with objects and players, emotes, it's all there, all they had to do was to slap that "Tenno Customization" on the Warframes and you're done!

 

This way they've just created something that players will and SHOULD demand more of, otherwise they just Rhino Stomped half the fans in the face, because leaving the Operator just sitting still with minimum acceptable of uses is an INSULT to everyone who put their time and dedication to this game.

I supported DE and I expect that trust I put in them to be fully realized as should anyone who pays for this game both before and now.

 

What did I get from my trust and love? What did you get? What did the fanbase get?

 

A Gimicky laser weapon and an occasional plot device. That's what. The Operator could have been completely omitted from the game and it would have made NO DIFFERENCE. Right now, they're just pointless.

 

Because the Focus system and it's mechanics could have been included without the Operator at all.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Jowain92

[Zeiss17]

Before second dream I be like:

*drops into mission*

Spy:

Allright! let's try not to alert everyone this time.

Ext, surv, sab:

Let's dance!

Mdef, Def,inter:

Thou shall not pass!

After secon dream I be like

*drops into mission*

Spy:

"This will be easier if we don't alert them."

No prob Shane! Stealth's my specialty!

Ext, sab, surv:

"My warframe is strong!"

Damn right I am Let's effin do this!

Mdef, def, inter:

"Come on!"

Yeah, try to conquer this tower I dare ya!"

For all I care I still am the warframe and the operator is just another npc like the lotus to screw around with.

Also there is this.

*breaks container*

"that was a close one"

Uuuh...Shane, you might not want to learn how to handle mission info from your mom. It is bad for your intelligence.

[Kalenath]

Uuuh...Shane, you might not want to learn how to handle mission info from your mom. It is bad for your intelligence.

 

So very true. 'YES I KNOW IT'S THE GRINEER LOTUS! Now can you tell Vor to shut up too?'

 

For me, the 'Operator' is nothing of the sort.

 

He is an adjunct, a rider who provides additional options. He is NOT the only will behind the warframe.

 

And I think he knows it. Is he trying to reassure US or himself when he talks to us?

Edited December 11, 2015 by Kalenath

[Zeiss17]

So very true. 'YES I KNOW IT'S THE GRINEER LOTUS! Now can you tell Vor to shut up too?'

 

For me, the 'Operator' is nothing of the sort.

 

He is an adjunct, a rider who provides additional options. He is NOT the only will behind the warframe.

 

And I think he knows it. Is he trying to reassure US or himself when he talks to us?

Great minds think alike. Maybe not on limbo, but still.

[GhostLacuna]

For all I care I still am the warframe and the operator is just another npc like the lotus to screw around with.

Also there is this.

*breaks container*

"that was a close one"

Uuuh...Shane, you might not want to learn how to handle mission info from your mom. It is bad for your intelligence.

 

ha ha have my upvote. 

 

I found my own solution for the second dream. 

 

To bad any player who will encounter me in the game will be left confused as hell :)

 

I blame the white knight who dared me to do it.

 

i didnt roleplay this game before now? 

 

Now i will twist every ounce of inspiration out of DEs little lore. 

 

If i destroy some fragile little innocence on the way that is to bad. 

[Zeiss17]

ha ha have my upvote. 

 

I found my own solution for the second dream. 

 

To bad any player who will encounter me in the game will be left confused as hell :)

 

I blame the white knight who dared me to do it.

 

i didnt roleplay this game before now? 

 

Now i will twist every ounce of inspiration out of DEs little lore. 

 

If i destroy some fragile little innocence on the way that is to bad.

Why thank you kind sir/ma'am. Have my upvote as well.

[Kaotyke]

Before second dream I be like:

*drops into mission*

Spy:

Allright! let's try not to alert everyone this time.

Ext, surv, sab:

Let's dance!

Mdef, Def,inter:

Thou shall not pass!

After secon dream I be like

*drops into mission*

Spy:

"This will be easier if we don't alert them."

No prob Shane! Stealth's my specialty!

Ext, sab, surv:

"My warframe is strong!"

Damn right I am Let's effin do this!

Mdef, def, inter:

"Come on!"

Yeah, try to conquer this tower I dare ya!"

For all I care I still am the warframe and the operator is just another npc like the lotus to screw around with.

Also there is this.

*breaks container*

"that was a close one"

Uuuh...Shane, you might not want to learn how to handle mission info from your mom. It is bad for your intelligence.

Which makes sense that the Operator is more of a "Mission commentary" just like Lotus is "Mission Control", why would they say things like "Get up Warframe!" and advise us that the mission will be easier if the enemy is not alerted?

 

Would anyone sane go to a mission and say to his AK-47 "Alright, AK. Let's avoid alerting them, put the silencer"?

 

And considering Rhino Prime's Codex, the Warframes are aware to some extend because:

 

"A gate opens inside me and recognition floods in. I have seen this monster before. I have cut its shell and eviscerated its brothers. I have given it pain and measured its response. I have crafted then rejected countless like it. But I've never seen this beast so close, without the shield, without restraints. I have never seen it... free.

I know I will die so I just watch with curious acceptance. The beast squats down, shovelling a heap of gore into its mouth. It is watching me with vague eyes, a sense of recognition, ancestral memory. It knows who I am and what I've done. It rears up like a bear and roars, shattering the lights and casting us into darkness."

[Mephiste]

The Tenno are really cringeworthy. After almost 3 years of mute badassery, I was a little stunned when confronted with my cheesy, kinda laid-back (even after near death) true self.

 

My friend heard his Tenno say "That was a close one" after breaking a corpus container. Why.

 

In old times, Corpus containers were the apex predators of the Galaxy.

[catastrophy]

All those who are touched by the Lotus won't go on unchanged. Not even the Warframes.

[StabbyTentacles]

Which makes sense that the Operator is more of a "Mission commentary" just like Lotus is "Mission Control", why would they say things like "Get up Warframe!" and advise us that the mission will be easier if the enemy is not alerted?

 

Would anyone sane go to a mission and say to his AK-47 "Alright, AK. Let's avoid alerting them, put the silencer"?

The whole idea is a bit broken imho. Hey AK-47 corpus are like so greedy. I like what you've done with your stock... Your barrels so warm... (better leave it there.)

 

But where's my tentacles?

I was promised tentacles!

I believe we were all assured that there would indeed be tentacles.

Edited December 11, 2015 by StabbyTentacles

[Kaotyke]

The whole idea is a bit broken imho. Hey AK-47 corpus are like so greedy. I like what you've done with your stock... Your barrels so warm... (better leave it there.)

 

I believe we were all assured that there would indeed be tentacles.

And Tentacle Grape

[VoidNomade]

One thing is clear. There will be alot more stories and quests about the operator, warframes, lotus, sentients, orokin and what happened in the old war.

 

U18 is just the basement. And like they´ve said in the latest stream: "Nothing is as it seems.."