Loot Manipulation Powers Are Bad Design, Lead To Degenerate Gameplay

[Jamescell]

Agreed. +1

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

You have just stated exactly the problem with desecrate. You use it for farming resources.

This is something the game should reward you with automatically. Not something to be slapped onto a playable character. It becomes thier identity for the majority. Which you've just attested to. You dont play Nekros because he's a minion master necromancer. You play him because you want some nuerodes. You've(and many many others)deligated an entire character to be used to help you farm. Not because the frame is interesting to play, not because it offers a totally unique way to play the game, but because its convenient in speeding up your farming.

There is nothing geniuenly fun or interesting about this power, and considering this is a video game I think thats a bit of a problem. You accuse those of us who want to improve the playstyle Nekros provides(and has even more potential to provide)as being whiny and narrow minded. When the truth is you just want to keep your loot bot frame. You'd forsake the potential of an entire character just because it can speed up your grind, and we're the narrow minded ones? Give me a break.

Think of any well made game on the planet, and now think of that game with an added class/character that very heavily/only provides its players with more loot instead of gameplay, or reguardless of what else it provides is heavily used by the masses because of the loot it provides, and tell me its a good idea.

I also said i incorporate it in my regular build, duh. So much time wasted, whining about stupid things. Game is fun, gonna b fun whether or not a couple guys want to press three for an hour or ten hours. Do something constructive, sheesh.

Also, ever play fallout series? Highly sought after, tremendously fun....the farming trick that lowers difficulty.... Sum people use it, some people dont. Hasnt ruined the series yet, cuz its still running.

Bottom line, u wanna press 3 for hours on end....do it. Ya dont wanna press 3 for hours on end....dont. However, dont try to ruin someone elses play style or fun, just because u do or dont like it. Kids

Edited December 9, 2015 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[DienesToo]

People have been mentioning the Diablo-esque loot nature of Warframe in defense of loot manipulation abilities. Lets see what's up with Diablo and loot manipulation:

It’s been a while, I’ve been off in Treasure Goblin land trying to get Reaper of Souls into shape. I wanted to stop by to give everyone some insight into what we are doing with Magic Find. For those of you who have heard me talk on the topic before you are probably already aware that MF is something we haven’t been thrilled with for quite a while. The idea of MF is great “GET ALL THE THINGS!” the reality of it however is incredibly problematic and leads to more negative effects than positive ones. Getting the reward rate of the game to a place we are happy with is a difficult tuning process and when we try to add MF into the equation is creates a bit of a dilemma, one that was already pointed out in the thread, how do you balance the game to feel good for someone with 0% MF vs someone with 300% MF. Ultimately the answer to that question is “You can’t” as such we have been trying to phase MF out of the game as much as possible.

In addition to changing exactly how MF interacts with finding items we also have dramatically reduced it’s existence throughout the game. Having strong characters already equates into finding more items, both by virtue of killing things faster and also by virtue of playing in higher difficulties, which still do have rewards associated with them. Because of all of this we decided to not only remove MF as an affix from gear but also change exactly how MF interacts with different item qualities. MF will apply 100% of its benefit to Blue items, 30% to Yellow items, and 10% to Legendary and Set items. This means someone with 300% MF will end up finding roughly 30% more Legendary and Set items than someone with 0%. The design intent is to make things like Topaz gems in helmets or the Nagel Ring an option without them actually being mandatory.

I hope this helps clear the air and as the expansion moves further and further into its development cycle I’ll start climbing out of this portal more frequently to answer questions.

...

On the topic of people thinking MF is an awesome way to get loot! Well here’s a different way to look at it, getting better gear is going to get you items faster. I would rather you get gear faster because you are more powerful and therefore murdering hordes of strong enemies faster, not because there is a stat that secretly is the most important thing in the game but doesn’t feel good because you have to sacrifice real power for it.

This was part of their Loot 2.0 overhaul which was one of the important changes that made Diablo 3 into a really great game instead of a good but hamstrung one. Desecrate isn't exactly the same as magic find but its effects on gameplay and blance are very similar. Anyone trying to get dropped items without using desecrate and pilfering swarm are at as much of a disadvantage as someone with 0% magic find compared to someone with 400% magic find.

[B0N3M4N]

I do agree with you, drop tables are already bad and we don't need to make this worse time after time with more loot manipulation frames because the devs will just start to build the drop rates about those too. Instead let's just decide to make them decent, both the drop rates and the frames that are needing help right now.

[Divinity-EN-]

Nobody is looking at warframe on steam or whatever and going OH YEAH I CAN GRIND FOR RARE DROPS AND GARBAGE MATERIAL? IM IN ON THIS! It doesn't happen. 

 

DE already moved away from random loot drops with the void tables, alert drops, and sortie rewards for anything that really matters.

 

It's not a problem that stuff like desecrate exists but that it forces DE to account for them when designing drop tables. Something too high means that anyone bringing those frames has almost a 100% chance of getting it while someone not doing that has a fraction of the chance. Or if something is too low then the only way to get it is to be exceptionally lucky or grind it out with frames. 

 

Imagine a warframe that had the ability to just give everyone infinite energy with no downsides. That wouldn't be a good addition because it just means that if you dont have one with you then you're at a disadvantage. It's the same with lootframes. They aren't bad in and of themselves but it just means that you are worse off by not having them and end up negatively impacting the rest of the loot tables.

I actually like to farm for resources because it gives me a reason play the game. Plus farming for resources is basically just like any mission. Best done with a friend :D

[PsychoticMarik]

I also said i incorporate it in my regular build, duh. So much time wasted, whining about stupid things. Game is fun, gonna b fun whether or not a couple guys want to press three for an hour or ten hours. Do something constructive, sheesh.

Also, ever play fallout series? Highly sought after, tremendously fun....the farming trick that lowers difficulty.... Sum people use it, some people dont. Hasnt ruined the series yet, cuz its still running.

Bottom line, u wanna press 3 for hours on end....do it. Ya dont wanna press 3 for hours on end....dont. However, dont try to ruin someone elses play style or fun, just because u do or dont like it. Kids

Pretty clear you just arent going to even try to understand anything anyone else is saying. You dont know the difference between whining(which is ironically what you're basically doing)and requesting/suggesting a new power, and if your going to tell me to do something constructive because I'm spending a little bit of my free time posting my thoughts on a game I happen to enjoy...well I'm gonna have to ask you to take your own advice.

 

Farming in games is a thing yes, but building abilities around farming is bad and lazy design. This should be a no brainer to anyone who knows the difference between a boring power in a game and a fun one.

 

Also, I dont appreciate having words put in my mouth. I never said I sat around doing nothing but spamming 3 on Nekros. I said it was poorly designed and implemented(It is. This is not an opinion)and that it should be replaced with something thats actually fun. If you are honestly going to sit there and tell me that you enjoy the playstyle that desecrate encourages...then I'm calling bs. Do you also happen to enjoy assembly work? The kind where you spend the entire 8+ hour shift doing the same 3 step task the entire time. No one enjoys that. Desecrate is about as exciting. It doesnt provide any enjoyment to the player whatsoever. It just kinda exists.

 

Removing desecrate and replacing it doesnt ruin any playstyle because desecrate farming is not a playstyle. Nor is using desecrate occasionally a playstyle. Giving him another power that actually involves him in the gameplay could create a new playstyle, or encourage another. The only thing I'm getting from your posts is that you dont want to lose the loot bot frame, and your upset that people want a change.

 

The fact that your posts have no actual substance or arguments and are sprinkled with insults towards those who disagree with you only help to suggest this.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Pretty clear you just arent going to even try to understand anything anyone else is saying. You dont know the difference between whining(which is ironically what you're basically doing)and requesting/suggesting a new power, and if your going to tell me to do something constructive because I'm spending a little bit of my free time posting my thoughts on a game I happen to enjoy...well I'm gonna have to ask you to take your own advice.

Farming in games is a thing yes, but building abilities around farming is bad and lazy design. This should be a no brainer to anyone who knows the difference between a boring power in a game and a fun one.

Also, I dont appreciate having words put in my mouth. I never said I sat around doing nothing but spamming 3 on Nekros. I said it was poorly designed and implemented(It is. This is not an opinion)and that it should be replaced with something thats actually fun. If you are honestly going to sit there and tell me that you enjoy the playstyle that desecrate encourages...then I'm calling bs. Do you also happen to enjoy assembly work? The kind where you spend the entire 8+ hour shift doing the same 3 step task the entire time. No one enjoys that. Desecrate is about as exciting. It doesnt provide any enjoyment to the player whatsoever. It just kinda exists.

Removing desecrate and replacing it doesnt ruin any playstyle because desecrate farming is not a playstyle. Nor is using desecrate occasionally a playstyle. Giving him another power that actually involves him in the gameplay could create a new playstyle, or encourage another. The only thing I'm getting from your posts is that you dont want to lose the loot bot frame, and your upset that people want a change.

The fact that your posts have no actual substance or arguments and are sprinkled with insults towards those who disagree with you only help to suggest this.

Pretty clear you just arent going to even try to understand anything anyone else is saying. You dont know the difference between whining(which is ironically what you're basically doing)and requesting/suggesting a new power, and if your going to tell me to do something constructive because I'm spending a little bit of my free time posting my thoughts on a game I happen to enjoy...well I'm gonna have to ask you to take your own advice.

Works both ways doesnt it? Everything u just said applies to me and to you. Let people play the way they choose. Instead of wanting to change the whole game mechanic, how bout just staying away from loot manipulating frames and playing the game the way you want. Everyone in these forums wants a nerf or rework on something.... Why not just enjoy this free to play game and let people play as they see fit?

This is exactly why saryn is a pile of crap now...people calling for nerfs and reworks. Its sad

Edited December 9, 2015 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[Makinar]

I have been playing this game for 2 years and the only resource i had a shortage of were Neural Sensors, because of formas,dojo and weapon requirements..
Eventhough you are right about the droprates and such,the frames you mention do get the job done.

 

An old  tip for players who struggle with resources.

 

Use the frames for your advantage when there is a double resource weekend and buy yourself another double resource booster form the market.

I assure you:You will never have to farm for resources again (besides argon crystals ).

It took me 2 and a half days to handle this for once and for all (Nekros and 2x Pilfroid).
This is what`s left from last years double resource weekend today .

Edited December 9, 2015 by Makinar

[IfritKajiTora]

Just remove resource and mod increase drop rate.
From those abilities health orbs, energy orbs are great. Ammo droping is good too.

[PsychoticMarik]

Works both ways doesnt it? Everything u just said applies to me and to you. Let people play the way they choose. Instead of wanting to change the whole game mechanic, how bout just staying away from loot manipulating frames and playing the game the way you want. Everyone in these forums wants a nerf or rework on something.... Why not just enjoy this free to play game and let people play as they see fit?

This is exactly why saryn is a pile of crap now...people calling for nerfs and reworks. Its sad

Thing is people asking for reworks are trying to improve a frame. Not tear it down. What you're doing(arguing in favor of keeping desecrate)is actively fighting against improvements(which a game of this nature must always be doing, and already has done in other frame reworks). Again, desecrate is not a playstyle. The people who care about the frame want a new power because his current one isnt fun, and works against active gameplay while also not contributing to a playstyle he could be much more interesting for if they replaced it. Telling me to piss off and stop playing a frame because you like a badly designed power and I dont is not an arguement. Nekros could be very much improved with a replaced desecrate and tweaking on his other powers, so I'm not gonna stop asking for improvements because you want me to.

 

I've given you plenty of reasons as to why desecrates bad, but you never come back with anything of substance about why you disagree. Only comments along the lines of "then dont play", "stop telling others how to play", or things of that nature. These arent convincing anyone. If you respond again in this manner reguarding desecrate I'm just going to assume you're either trolling, are too dense to understand why desecrates bad design, or that you just dont care thats its bad design and are just willing to settle for whatever DE provides.

 

Btw Saryn's rework results arent because of the players on this forum. Its because DE is painfully incompetent. Her feedback megathread aught to attest to that. Tons and tons of suggestions on how to properly go about fixing her, and DE do none of it. The games issues come from DE's bad implementation of ideas(both good and bad), and not because of players.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I like desecrate...its worked into my playstyle. Im defending because i like it, just like your wanting to change it because you dont. Its all based on opinion.

[(PSN)Xewkeryx]

Nekros, Hydroid, and Mag improve loot collection and are loved for it (Minus Maggie when this power was inhibited)

 

Limbo denies loot and is loathed for it

 

 

Please quit making frame powers that interact with loot, it distracts from all of the frame's other functions so much

[MJ12]

I like desecrate...its worked into my playstyle. Im defending because i like it, just like your wanting to change it because you dont. Its all based on opinion.

 

This isn't a "do you like it or not" question. Loot manipulation powers are objectively bad for the game because instead of making "getting loot" a relatively easily balanced issue ("people get more loot by killing things faster. Thus, we only need to worry about how fast people can kill things to determine how long an average player will take to get a certain mod") you create this additional worry about "what if they take two frames which give extra loot chances?" which often leads to bad loot tables to prevent Grinder McGrindyson from getting 50 billion copies of a rare mod.

 

It also means you have underpowered warframes which get no adjustments or modifiers because their loot-bandaging powers make them useful despite being underpowered and unfun.

 

Someone mentioned Diablo 3 and why they drastically reduced both the effectiveness and commonality of Magic Find to make the best build for getting more stuff the build which is the most fun (i.e. the build which kills mans fast). The same reasons apply to Warframe.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Just to go a bit deeper into OP's point: is the dropptable RLY as low BECAUSE of loot manipulation?

First of, warframe is a F2P game that sells RESOURCES FOR PLATINUM.

Accept it or not but that's EXACTLY how F2P games make money. With frustration. It even became worse recently. All newer frames were hidden behind grindwalls, the dropptables of new primes are manipulated and the generall dropprate was (ninja?)nerfed as well.

DELETING LOOT MANIPULATION WOULD ONLY LEAD TO ONE SCENARIO: LESS LOOT.

There isn't a happy ending to this story. No scenario where DE compensates for the loss. Ban loot manipulation and the additional loot is gone. Nothing else.

Going for loot isn't even a problem, there isn't any demand from anyone except beginners. It must've been over a year where specificly farmed for loot...

This is a standalone aim, nothing to do with regular or professional gameplay. There is only demand in this one category.

I'm playing necros quite often, not because of the loot manipulation but because of the awesome support/energy management that results from moderate use.

It's not like noone ever asked but guess what, i explained myself and the runs worked out. My shadow build even DID SOMETHING FOR THE TEAM, what resulted in many friend requests.

Seriously OP, your point is flawed to the core. You blame abilitys based on the fact that you're unable to accept the commercial aspect of the game.

The abilitys are not bad design, f2p is.

....at least to the extend that can be found here....

Edited December 14, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[SlightVect]

I'm reading every response in this thread and it seems like literally half the responses either A.Don't have enough time logged into the game to understand the problem.B.Don't understand the post or C.Think this thread is opinionated. 

 

 

Anyways, I'm with OP on this one. Loot tables have always been fairly garbage and Nekros was added as bandaid fix. Nekros players (The good ones, not those of you with 2 days logged on your "Main" ) literally build for and around Desecrate. Half my clan mates run a Despoil Nekros simply because his other powers are straight up garbage. (Power strength Nekros is for one thing and that's messing around.)

 

And that's just the problem with one frame. 

 

Pilfering Hydroid should have never been a thing. It used to scale with power strength for crying out loud. The drops Scaled up to four times per kill by tentacle. It had to be nerfed and now it's the only way a Broken,useless, and under perofmring Hydroid sees any use. (Get the bias out of here. Hydroid is bad, end of discussion) 

 

Mirages loot interaction ability is literally never used. It's just there, a waste of an ability slot. 

 

Ivara's pickpocket is minor but is just adding to the problem. 

 

 

A loot table revamp is required. Ask any one with REAL time invested in warframe.  The current system is utterly terrible. 

[MJ12]

Just to go a bit deeper into OP's point: is the dropptable RLY as low BECAUSE of loot manipulation?

First of, warframe is a F2P game that sells RESOURCES FOR PLATINUM.

Accept it or not but that's EXACTLY how F2P games make money. With frustration. It even became worse recently. All newer frames were hidden behind grindwalls, the dropptables of new primes are manipulated and the generall dropprate was (ninja?)nerfed as well.

DELETING LOOT MANIPULATION WOULD ONLY LEAD TO ONE SCENARIO: LESS LOOT.

There isn't a happy ending to this story. No scenario where DE compensates for the loss. Ban loot manipulation and the additional loot is gone. Nothing else.

Going for loot isn't even a problem, there isn't any demand from anyone except beginners. It must've been over a year where specificly farmed for loot...

This is a standalone aim, nothing to do with regular or professional gameplay. There is only demand in this one category.

I'm playing necros quite often, not because of the loot manipulation but because of the awesome support/energy management that results from moderate use.

It's not like noone ever asked but guess what, i explained myself and the runs worked out. My shadow build even DID SOMETHING FOR THE TEAM, what resulted in many friend requests.

Seriously OP, your point is flawed to the core. You blame abilitys based on the fact that you're unable to accept the commercial aspect of the game.

The abilitys are not bad design, f2p is.

....at least to the extend that can be found here....

 

So why is it that things don't drop with a .0001% chance for everything? Or better yet, why not make nothing but credits and resources drop, and force people to buy everything else? Given that the only thing DE will ever do is make it so that there's less available loot.

 

F2P design is a very careful balance where you want people to get new stuff slowly enough that they're incentivized to buy it, but quickly enough that they don't feel like the game is a scam. There are significant and actual economic studies on how to balance these two. (IIRC the general balance ends up being that 1 hour of player time ~= $.40 to $1.00 of real money).

 

This makes the issue with Nekros quite apparent. If you're getting twice as much loot by having a Nekros around, suddenly those carefully balanced figures are out of whack. But the hardcore demographic who will calculate optimal farming (who are also the ones most likely to spend plat)-they're going to bring a Nekros around to get twice as much loot.

 

So your solution is to make the loot tables bad, so that Nekros's presence doesn't help much. Shafting everyone who isn't one of those optimal grind-farmers. If Nekros is eliminated, DE will probably have to make drops better, simply because if drops weren't better, their main income source would vanish due to the sudden and drastic imbalance between grinding and purchasing.

Edited December 14, 2015 by MJ12

[Marbelik]

Well, basically people get mad with loot interacting skills on Warframes. Once you build Nekros or Hydroid (being the Warframes mentioned as the most awfully designed in the game, being for the sinergy of their kits or because of the "looting abuse" they make) if you didnt used platinum to make them they work somewhat as a "free" booster to get drops in the game.

 

Pretty much you want to remove (the OP and the people supporting it) a "free drop booster" that some people have in the game... Why not asking to remove Resorce Drop Boosters at all from the game? Why not asking to remove also the Credit Drop Booster from the game?

 

Those people seem to not care at all for those (for whatever reason they may have). But think about it, many people actually do buy those boosters because most of the MMORPG's games are based on RNG drop tables... And telling you a secret the RNG drop tables (and the fact that you have to pay to get an increased drop rate) and the Cosmetic Stuff from the games actually make the bussiness model of almost every MMORPG that is Free to Play and that is not Pay to Win (we can do buy weapons and almost everything with platinum... but since this game its not pvp oriented then its not a Pay to Win game...).

 

Oh but yes, having a Nekros or a Hydroid to get more drops is unfair and unfun (why? because you can actually build them without using platinum?) but no one pays attention at all to Boosters that you have to pay for (mainly, i hope, because they "forget" about them and because its like i said already part of the bussiness model of the game).

 

Asking for an increased drop from drop tables i find it fine honestly (if you desire even more chance for drops then paying for boosters is still viable). Making a rework not only for the skills that add an increased chance (not doubled like most of the people say, since every kill you get for an example can get you 0.5% of the item dropped, that value its not doubled, its not magically converted into 1% drop chance... it still counts as a 0.5% for the use of said looting skills) but a rework for the kit of skills these warframes do have would be beneficial... not only for a skill functionality you dislike of find "unfair". And if you are asking for a revisit on warframes to get a rework please make it for all those warframes who need it... *CoughCough* Oberon, Trinity (infinite energy should be a problem like looting, isnt it? also people use her mainly for that... thing you are complaining about Nekros and Hydroid), Limbo (needs more sinergy with warframes and drops lol)*CoughCough*

Edited December 15, 2015 by Marbelik

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

So why is it that things don't drop with a .0001% chance for everything? Or better yet, why not make nothing but credits and resources drop, and force people to buy everything else? Given that the only thing DE will ever do is make it so that there's less available loot.

F2P design is a very careful balance where you want people to get new stuff slowly enough that they're incentivized to buy it, but quickly enough that they don't feel like the game is a scam. There are significant and actual economic studies on how to balance these two. (IIRC the general balance ends up being that 1 hour of player time ~= $.40 to $1.00 of real money).

This makes the issue with Nekros quite apparent. If you're getting twice as much loot by having a Nekros around, suddenly those carefully balanced figures are out of whack. But the hardcore demographic who will calculate optimal farming (who are also the ones most likely to spend plat)-they're going to bring a Nekros around to get twice as much loot.

So your solution is to make the loot tables bad, so that Nekros's presence doesn't help much. Shafting everyone who isn't one of those optimal grind-farmers. If Nekros is eliminated, DE will probably have to make drops better, simply because if drops weren't better, their main income source would vanish due to the sudden and drastic imbalance between grinding and purchasing.

How would you tell a difference if this wasn't the case from the very beginning? How exactly did the playerbase react to the massive nerf to the overall droppchance? Wasn't this the same kinda dropp allready? To higher prices for cosmetics? They even plan to release a second excalibur prime now...

The playerbase, including you, is WAY to forgiving to what they do. NOTHING lowered theyr income until now and that won't change before it becomes unbearable for evryone.

One factor less won't change anything for the dropptable. That's nothing but wishfull thinking.

And ya know, you mention your actuall issue but you don't adress it... are loot munipulation abilitys rly a stepping stone to a better dropprate? Is it impossible to raise it while desecrate and co are still around?... and why would you even ban them from the game instead of focusing them for theyr gameplay use? Meaning orbs and ammo. Not resources as a standalone use.

You want a better dropprate? Then do me a favor and ask for it instead of blaming abilitys!

Edited December 15, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Pro3Display]

So why is it that things don't drop with a .0001% chance for everything? Or better yet, why not make nothing but credits and resources drop, and force people to buy everything else? Given that the only thing DE will ever do is make it so that there's less available loot.

 

F2P design is a very careful balance where you want people to get new stuff slowly enough that they're incentivized to buy it, but quickly enough that they don't feel like the game is a scam. There are significant and actual economic studies on how to balance these two. (IIRC the general balance ends up being that 1 hour of player time ~= $.40 to $1.00 of real money).

 

This makes the issue with Nekros quite apparent. If you're getting twice as much loot by having a Nekros around, suddenly those carefully balanced figures are out of whack. But the hardcore demographic who will calculate optimal farming (who are also the ones most likely to spend plat)-they're going to bring a Nekros around to get twice as much loot.

 

So your solution is to make the loot tables bad, so that Nekros's presence doesn't help much. Shafting everyone who isn't one of those optimal grind-farmers. If Nekros is eliminated, DE will probably have to make drops better, simply because if drops weren't better, their main income source would vanish due to the sudden and drastic imbalance between grinding and purchasing.

i cant believe the amount of salt in this post, claiming he said what he didn't even remotely mention.

you blame abilities but forgetting that everyone can just buy that resource drop amount booster/ resource drop chance booster.

they serve the same purpose but you only see "useless abilities that poison the game".

you cant even trade resources - it doesn't affect trading in any way since you cant trade items that are built with this resources.

if you know where to farm you can farm tons of resources even without nekros and other boosters.

if you are unable to at least look at the wiki in section "gathering tips: go <insert planet name> <mission name> <mission type>, people reporting getting x resources per <insert time frame> on <insert mission name>" that's solely your own problem

if you hate rng then dont play rng based games- play chess or sudoku or smth - 100% mathematically predictable

if you know so much about how to make a f2p that is enjoyable for everyone and gives you enough profit while not scamming users apply to DE and show them "the ways" or make your own company and game and show us how good you are at f2p business management.

otherwise it's just craptalking pointing fingers finding who is to blame.

you point finger to him, he is to you, you will reply to me and point fingers to me because i am pointing towards you because everyone tries to prove they are right and nobody else. so humane it stinks.

 

you have a point but in a grand scheme of things to change what you want you need to rework the gameplay. there is literally dozen of other reasons for warframe's gameplay to be reworked from scratch besides droptables that this issue is just negligible/not a priority

Edited December 15, 2015 by Pro3Display

[Luxpluff]

Another "Nerf this please" thread following the classic format.

OP claims certain Warframe/Ability/Weapon/mechanic is broken/unhealthy for the game.

People who disagree reply with "no, the game is fine as it is", which is a weak argument.

OP then replies with "claiming the game is fine as it is does not create a good argument", which is correct but doesn't add to the original discussion, thus also being a weak argument (but seemingly more solid than the previous one).

At the end of the day, this all boils down to one side saying it's all broken and hopeless, and another side saying it's all good.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

The op is opinionated. Im mr13 and im saying desecrate doesnt hurt gameplay watsoever.

[Ryjeon]

I had a dream about a mod for sniper rifles that rewards extra loot on headshot kills. It was pretty satisfying.

[Phatose]

Every ability affects drops.  The idea that extra loot drops are somehow different in that regard ignores the reality that abilities affect kill rate, and kill rate affects drop rate.

 

Balancing drop rates for a slow killing Trinity vs. a fast killing Ember is just as hard as doing it for a Nekros vs. a Loki.

 

Whole thread is based on poor assumptions.

[Archwizard]

Thank you so much for this thread. I've been trying to spread this message since Nekros was introduced and it seems to have gone over many heads.

 

Desecrate. No more dropping more loot-ammo and health/energy are fine, survival life support is fine

 

make it more fun for everyone, especially those Nekros players who spend most of their time with the 3 key taped down instead of having fun.

 

Slight contradiction there, since Nekros players will have the same role in Survivals regardless of loot if they can still help cheese the mission type.

 

But I absolutely agree with you in every other respect. Personally, I'm a fan of swapping out Desecrate completely for a skill that allows him to support his minions as much as any other ally, given that the loot-based support is contradictory to the necromancer design, and an entirely RNG-based skill with any lockout mechanic is counter to good design in general.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Archwizard

[FrostySpikes]

You forgot Atlas Petrify Augment...

 

Btw loot increased chances is not smt bad is actually better. DE doesnt establish low drop chances thinking that pilfer desecrate or any other augment/skill will increase it to a normal lvl... its actually higher than normal.