Since Loki Is Getting His Premium Soon, Can He Also Get Some Much Needed Qol Changes?

[Sebastianx]

As the title says, he's a very old frame with outdated statistics in some cases.

 

First of all, since both Saryn and Rhino got their passives with their skins, Loki should get his as well.

 

Decoy needs some serious love, first of all, the skill is borderline useless after level 40 enemies (unless you have a Limbo in your squad) because that thing goes down BEFORE the casting animation even finishes. I suggest the same mechanic that is currently on the summoned specters and Clem also be applied to his decoy, as in, when the clone appears, it's the same level as the enemies spawning at that moment. That would make a WORLD of difference.

 

All of his other skills feel pretty solid, there can be a few bug fixes here and there, like, invisibility should always look as if you're using black energy (at least in PvP) because it's annoying to be forced to use black energy just to be unseen, because otherwise you're very visible...and what not tiny bugs that need to be polished out.

 

One can hope...

 

EDIT:

Reason 2: I cannot see myself which not only hurts my commitment to fashionframe but also plain makes it hard to combo time in melee- which is KINDA important considering the buffs invisibility gives to melee...

 

^ That is also very important.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Sebastianx

[AdunSaveMe]

I think the changes that he needs is a scaling decoy that can draw more aggro and a better radial disarm animation that doesn't make him shuffle forwards for half an hour to spin around and throw some shiny stuff. Just any ability like that which needlessly moves you forwards (meaning, not an intended effect of the ability, before you start pointing out charge and tailwind) should be changed to at least just cast in one spot.

 

Passives are tricky sometimes, and I can't really think of one that benefits Loki all that much, unless he had a chance to dodge incoming shots? Like "you thought you were shooting me but haha, I am unshot, loki awaaaaay", that kind of thing. Faster stealth kill animations would be nice, but that should be universal anyway.

[AbyssalCrow]

To let you know, Energy color doesn't matter in conclave, Loki will always be 100% invisible regardless of said color, I would know considering i pvp'd against a friend and we both use very bright colors and we couldn't see each other and even noted on it.

[ashrah]

decoy need imortality for time of duration...also would be nice addition half cast animation time for each loki skill

[Ziegrif]

Maybe add a passive yeah... But really Loki is at a good place atm as all powers are useful in someway and that's why he hasn't been touched in ever.

 

He should be way behind the list considering we have frames with dud skills. Like Hydroids Undertow which I've only seen used as a trolling ability to prolong defense missions.

[TicGuy]

make players immune to switch teleport pls.

 

until this day i've never seen someone use it for the safety of other people.

Edited December 15, 2015 by TicGuy

[Stratego89]

Big things I'd like to see happen with Loki.

 

Firstly: As you said- decoy becomes useless later on. Your suggestion is a great one. Alternatively just remove the health bar altogether. it's a hologram- things shouldn't actually be able to hit it...

 

Secondly: Invis. This skill is the #1 reason I don't use loki for 2 reasons. Reason 1: It makes the game a joke. It's overpowered. Reason 2: I cannot see myself which not only hurts my commitment to fashionframe but also plain makes it hard to combo time in melee- which is KINDA important considering the buffs invisibility gives to melee...

 

What I'd like to see done to invisibility:

 

Let's solve the second problem first. Look at DE's first game dark sector, and the stalker evolution power. THAT is how Loki's invisibility should work. Heck- I wouldn't mind if all invisibility worked like that but I feel it's the most important for loki due to the reasons I've said. Ivara's invisibility isn't melee centric- it's gun centric. Ash's invisibility is short, and again, not melee centric per-se. Being able to FULLY see yourself with a slightly distorted view would not only allow you to see yourself for easy combo timing, but also help just a smidge to balance out the ability. It would need to be toned down (distortion) from what is in dark sector, or I can see people getting motion sick.

 

Handling the other issue of it being OP. I think invisibility should not fully mask your presence. I believe that enemies should still BE ABLE to see him, it's just a lot harder. Eg if you run past someone fast they won't notice, but sit in front of them for a few seconds and they might. This would mean you still have to pay some attention to your surroundings. Ofc this skill would be MUCH easier to balance if DE went with a full on rework to enemy ai so stealth was more feasible and practical in the first place, but as a temporary thing this would work I feel. Like the sangheili in Halo- you can see the glint, nothing is truly invisible- if it was they wouldn't be able to see because physics.

 

Switch Teleport is plain clunky. It just needs to be more usable.

 

Radial Disarm... I'm ok with this skill honestly. I am STILL not sure whether the disarm is permanent- but if it is perhaps it shouldn't be. The augment is what is truly overpowered. I'd like to see it change a bit.

[Stratego89]

make players immune to switch teleport pls.

 

until this day i've never seen someone use it for the safety of other people.

I have. On more occasions than I can count. Not to say I haven't seen it used for trolling even more than that.

[Dead10ck]

~snip

 

For the love of god, no. The whole point of this game is to be 'op', if you don't like it then remove some mods and go nerf yourself. You don't have to ruin it for everyone else.

 

I cannot see myself

 

That's the whole point.

 

If your eyes are so bad that you can't see your melee then use a brighter energy color.

[Stratego89]

For the love of god, no. The whole point of this game is to be 'op', if you don't like it then remove some mods and go nerf yourself. You don't have to ruin it for everyone else.

 

 

That's the whole point.

 

If your eyes are so bad that you can't see your melee then use a brighter energy color.

1. No it's not. The point of this game is to be fun. OP ends up boring after the first hundred times. Even without mods- his invisibility makes the game a joke.

 

2. No- it's not the point. The point is not for you to be unable to see yourself- it's for ENEMIES to be unable to see you. 

 

3. My eyes (while they aren't what they used to be) aren't bad. Even with a super bright energy color- it's hard to time melee combos because it's hard to see the actions you are performing.

[Aratir]

Make his decoy and switch teleport the same skill when you press 1 a decoy appears, if you aim at it you teleport to its place if you aim away form it place an other decoy instead.

 

As for his 3. he needs a new ability.

[TMHowler]

Loki is fine where he is now.

He does not do any direct damage with his abilities (yes I know radial disarm does "some" damage, but it is so minuscule it's hardly worth noticing)

He is all about CC(in more ways than people do realize), stealth and advanced movement (so to say). Destroy any aspect of this kit of his and you ruin the whole kit.

The best that could be done (as mentioned from Tenno above me) is a slight buff (health/shield-wise) to his decoy and reword of the casting animation for his disarm.

As far as the passive goes - a dodge-like ability would indeed be nice.

[(PSN)thinkfasthippie2]

As a Loki main I would really like to see the mentioned decoy changes be implemented. Everything else works perfect for me though. Just give him the "clem" mechanic on his decoy.

[MumblesMcphatty]

I've got a great Loki QoL I'd like to see implemented!

Max Loki limit of 1 in missions! Especially sorties! Useless invisible cheese balls!

[Jaruis]

I've got a great Loki QoL I'd like to see implemented!

Max Loki limit of 1 in missions! Especially sorties! Useless invisible cheese balls!

Might as well do the same with the other frames if that's the case

Haha, no. Don't restrict others choice of fun

[StonedMakak]

Loki's kit survived untouched for so long because he is the perfect CC/solo frame. Solo he can basically make enemies unable to target him for a solid MINUTE, which can be kept up indefinitely making it quite frankly OP, no point pretending it's not. In group setting he provides an excellent, permanent CC in form of Radial Disarm, which is great in its vanilla form, godly with the augment, and absolutely breaks the game when used in conjunction with other skills. Slow Nova + RD Loki = target practice mode, even more so with Loki & Booben combo. 

 

Most importantly - Loki is inconspicuous in the meta as well as on the battlefield. He doesn't steal kills, he is viable in any content, and you either don't even know he's there (Invis built) or love him for his 4-spam (RD). This allows him to slip under the radar of the nerf/buff/balance threads and avoid rustling the jimmies. He might be the best incarnation of a concept (stealthy trickster) that we have in Warframe. 

 

QoL changes would be scaling Decoy and smoother targeting for ST (same goes for Ash btw). Passive? Bullet avoidance seems cool and fitting. Oh, and you're completely right about invisibility visuals - it's essentially a survivability & melee buff, it should not make it harder to melee because of a lackluster effect.  

 

Anyway, I do think the cheese factor will be nerfed sooner or later, along with the changes to invisibility mechanics themselves. There is a good chance though that we will get those QoL improvements with the skin OP. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by tisdfogg

[Krymanol]

Decoy use to be invulnerable and duration based and If I recall they changed it due to some kind of exploit.   Not sure what exploit because DE changed decoy while I was away from the game.   When i came back and tried to use decoy, all I could say was "WTF"...so yeah decoy is only good for using switch teleport so you can get to places faster, but then even that sucks sometimes because decoy and teleport don't have the same range so you can sometimes place the decoy out of range where teleport won't reach it.

 

 

As for invisibility, I don't know what graphic setting some play on or what video cards you guys have but I see loki just fine when invisible (wanna talk about not seeing yourself, go play ghost recon phantoms and stealth is truly invisible compared to this game).   Besides, if your eyes are where they are supposed to be (on the enemy and what's going on around you), you shouldn't need to see loki anyway.   Like really, what's the purpose of watching your frame?    For myself, my eyes are on the enemy, my team and companions health bars, the timers, the oxygen levels, my ammo, my energy, my ability cooldowns etc.   No time to be staring at what loki is doing when I already know since I'm the one making him move, jump, roll, bullet jump etc.

 

 

As for radial blind, the ability is fine, but the animation needs a rework.   Making him travel forward and only being able to cast it while on the ground due to the animation lock makes it difficult to use strategically or in a "OH crap" situation. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by Krymanol

[CrazyCatLad]

I've got a great Loki QoL I'd like to see implemented!

Max Loki limit of 1 in missions! Especially sorties! Useless invisible cheese balls!

 

Invis Lokis are always the Master Revivers or Napalm disarmers (level 100 jerkholes who don't like dying) etc...

 

And yes, Decoy is useless. Good for holding doors open if you're sniping/bottlenecking the enemy but they should have enemy level armor/health and/or shields.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Lanieu

[StonedMakak]

Like really, what's the purpose of watching your frame?   

 

 

I'm gonna guess you use guns mostly? Well, for some folks who use melee, timing the combos requires to actually see your frame doing the animation. Also, bumping into an enemy while invisible, forfeits the 300% damage bonus. So you might see how it would be cool to just have an outline of the frame, while invisible, to make it easier on the melee crowd.

Edited December 15, 2015 by tisdfogg

[JoMenton]

how about.............................. DONT TOUCH LOKI

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

I imagine that loki and ash invisibility skills will be a toggled skill, no duration

Just increased energy drain for distance travelled & actions like attacks, almost like wukong cloud walker

Edited December 15, 2015 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[LeaserResael]

People asking for changes to inv and even radial disarm simply forget that Loki is one if not the weakest of all frames, in late game if a napalm hits anywhere near you, loki goes down really fast, if a nulli takes away your inv you can go down in one hit, etc. His whole kit is about knowing how to use him, otherwise you're dead quite fast.

There's a reason he was untouched for so long, and that's because he's fine where it is now.

If DE changes his inv to consume more with actions then he becomes a lot less useful, because as soon as you're out of inv you're dead, Loki can't survive direct hits. 
Besides, his inv build is useless on end game content, you need a radial disarm build to be effective.

His whole theme is to be able to survive staying hidden and disarming enemies. Remove that and he becomes literally the worst frame of the game.

[(PSN)dursereg]

how about.............................. DONT TOUCH LOKI

1000% agree

[Moghul]

Please do not touch Loki's Invisibility and Radial Disarm.

 

I swear to Clem, if you do, you're gonna kill him.

 

I don't understand people who call for changes on these abilities when he's wet tissue paper and relies on them to be viable.

 

You give Ash and Ivara as examples but Ash has massive amounts of HP and an ulti that makes him invulnerable not to mention the piles and piles of damage.

 

Ivara may be just as squishy but at least she can steal and gets a headshot boost and let's not forget her ulti.

 

Loki is fantastic as is. If you're gonna do anything, give decoy the same treatment as Snow Globe and Iron Skin. He's a utility frame, that's his whole reason for relevance.

 

Or like, give him a passive, call it light footed and make it so he doesn't alert enemies when bumping into them.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Moghul

[fatpig84]

Radial Disarm is not overpowered period.

Seriously why people keep thinking it is overpowered ?

Because it works extremely well with Booben for those Sewer camping dudes in T4 survivals ?

 

 

If you want real overpowered CC, I point you to Mirage, Nova and the new Rhino Stomp.

And before you bring in IRD to the picture, remember Loki has to sacrifice a slot for something to have decent CC.

RD by itself is not a god CC. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by fatpig84