KorbanGado Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I dont need to check 2 variables, since its self evident that outrage occurs when new increased grind is released. I observed correlation and produced statistic based on it. That "large group of players" accepted years ago that they wont have anything to do between patches, especially when they do what de wants them to do, buying frames. And sorties arent exactly thing to do, you log in spend 1 hour in and wait 24h, im still not doing anything. You assume that de did that to give players something to do. However broken down it doesnt add, reality implies however that de does to sell more frames, which when matched with the fact that theyre company creates a matching narrative doesnt it?? I actually assume DE put it in there because people thought the rewards within the sortie pool were "subpar" and "unimpressive." Whats cooler as a reward than a brand new shiny frame? Yeah, sure, I'm sure it was probably at least involved some sort of thought about profit - but to think otherwise would be like being surprised when burger king doesn't give out free whoppers on thanksgiving. What I was going at with the whole '2 variables' or whatever is that it's not so much a fact, but an assumption your making - hence why I tried to include my example of how someone could say "people complain about anything that makes them wait" *such as any frame that has a timewall). Thing is, a timewall doesn't increase grind - it doesn't effect grind at all - so if people were only to complain about frames with increased grind all the "complain because timewall" frames would be removed from that list - particularly because they had no grind on some of them (you literally get the mission, do a quest for a part, build part, get next part, build that, rinse-repeat : no grind, just waiting for builds). Every single person is going to have their own specific reason as to why they don't like (in this case) the Nezha placement. You might say because the grind, I might say because it's not the most solo-friendly thing, bob over there might say because it removed the weapon he wanted from the pool. Simply casting a net and calling it one reason doesn't get the broad sense of what it is, and really that's what I'm getting it - try not to break it into generics, because then we don't get the full breadth of expressed issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragunova Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 What do you think other ppl are going to do?? Its not choice, thats only option left. Then you fall into impression that trading makes acquisition easier, but everyone is exposed to same rng, if you cant acquire it, solid chance is that other ppl cant either and price will be high. Trading doesnt help any more than outright buying it from market. Nope, this is not the only choice, I could bought her with plats or buy parts with plats at others players or also trade prime parts for her ... The fact that the frame is tradeable is helping you in case of identical parts, if you drop the helmet 2 times, you can trade your helmet for the system if somebody got 2 of these, people exposed to the same RNG than you doesn't mean they will drop the same things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) I actually assume DE put it in there because people thought the rewards within the sortie pool were "subpar" and "unimpressive." Whats cooler as a reward than a brand new shiny frame? Yeah, sure, I'm sure it was probably at least involved some sort of thought about profit - but to think otherwise would be like being surprised when burger king doesn't give out free whoppers on thanksgiving. What I was going at with the whole '2 variables' or whatever is that it's not so much a fact, but an assumption your making - hence why I tried to include my example of how someone could say "people complain about anything that makes them wait" *such as any frame that has a timewall). Thing is, a timewall doesn't increase grind - it doesn't effect grind at all - so if people were only to complain about frames with increased grind all the "complain because timewall" frames would be removed from that list - particularly because they had no grind on some of them (you literally get the mission, do a quest for a part, build part, get next part, build that, rinse-repeat : no grind, just waiting for builds). Every single person is going to have their own specific reason as to why they don't like (in this case) the Nezha placement. You might say because the grind, I might say because it's not the most solo-friendly thing, bob over there might say because it removed the weapon he wanted from the pool. Simply casting a net and calling it one reason doesn't get the broad sense of what it is, and really that's what I'm getting it - try not to break it into generics, because then we don't get the full breadth of expressed issues. At the same time they removed potatoes, stuff which EVERYONE will appreciate. Yeah no it still doesnt add up. Actually i should again cite definition of tedious. "tiresome because of length or dullness" It doesnt describe anything positive, so yeah no wonder that ppl are complaining. It is self evident. Nope, this is not the only choice, I could bought her with plats or buy parts with plats at others players or also trade prime parts for her ... The fact that the frame is tradeable is helping you in case of identical parts, if you drop the helmet 2 times, you can trade your helmet for the system if somebody got 2 of these, people exposed to the same RNG than you doesn't mean they will drop the same things Youre playing free 2 play game with expectation that you can acquire everything in the game for free. Then suddenly you hit a grindwall, what ppl tell you?? buy it with premium currency, you dont have premium currency?? ppl will gift it to you if you do another grindwall, what will company making game do with money earned that way?? make another grindwall which will perpetuate this cycle. No sorry, your only option to acquire it for free is to wait till it drops. Edited December 17, 2015 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAtrament Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) "oh we can get it from trading" oh wait people are selling each part for 100p for refrence loki prime set sells for 175p. nezha is worth more than a prime lol what? Edited December 18, 2015 by hazerddex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 "oh we can get it from trading" oh wait people are selling each part for 100p for refrence loki prime set sells for 175p. nezha is worth more than a prime lol what? Prices doesnt represent actual value. Its supply and demand. Demand is high, supply is low so price is high. Would be higher if they couldnt just get it from market for 275p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 "oh we can get it from trading" oh wait people are selling each part for 100p for refrence loki prime set sells for 175p. nezha is worth more than a prime lol what? He just came out, it's always like this during the early days. People are impatient and are willing to pay silly prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAtrament Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 the thing that bugs me the most about the nezha parts in sorties is that when and if nezha prime gets released its going to be easier to get than the normal nezha for the simple fact that you can Farm for those while nezha makes you wait a day just liked to point that out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Kill Vor first for Trinity Parts.Kill Lech Krill first for Nezha Parts.Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAtrament Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Kill Vor first for Trinity Parts. Kill Lech Krill first for Nezha Parts. Amen. that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedemon Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Not to be rude to people, but how is this a grind wall? It's a waiting game... Not a grind. vauban is a waiting game if you can get his part in the time it is released its a sure part here its a 24 hours wait for a really small chance of getting one piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God_is_a_Cat_Girl Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Kill Vor first for Trinity Parts. Kill Lech Krill first for Nezha Parts. Amen. I'm impressed that no one said Corrupted Vor, but then I'm not reading every post. In the end, there will always be someone unsatisfied, there would be threads about how someone wanted Trinity parts and couldn't because the party killed Krill first (actually, otherwise is easier to happen, Vor dies much faster than Krill), someone would complain that Vor is behind keys despite that T4 are really easy to get in U18. Wukong I see more like how new people some times go "Oh now, I have to farm cells/Oxium/Neural Sensors to get a new frame. : / ", except since we got used to already having every mat ready to easily kill a boss a few times and craft it right away without much effort, when frame needs a new mat that got release in the same day which makes it so no one has it, we get frustrated, we can't get it as fast as we are used to, but when we were new, we weren't used to it, so the frustration isn't nearly as much. Nezha is almost the same thing in a different system, just like everything else, he will stop being a reason to run Sorties, just like how you run a boss a few times and then there's no reason to go there because you have the frame already. Prices are only high right now in trade chat because it's something new, just like how any Kubrow mod would sell for 20+plat, how archwing mods would sell for 20+ plat, even common mods would, why? Because no one had them, so the price was high. A couple of weeks later and to get 5p from common mods it would only come from people that didn't want to play Archwing that much at all. Later, maybe not even 5p, maybe not even most would give 1p. Trade also is more than just plat, not always though. Nezha actually suffers of being new in a new system. Sorties only have 14 days of existence, not really much for an online game. Things get introduced and then they settle in, it takes time (which the whole monetization is about saving time, rather than exclusives), later it won't be worth all that much (which unlike the Karak and probably later the Dera, which will be removed and most likely added later, Nezha will always be there, people will buy him, craft him, get repeats, once Nezha settles in, all the bad is gone, and parts won't be worth all that much anymore). Wukong, same thing, people will get Nitain, get Wukong done, the newer people will either research him or have access to clans that have him already and Nitain for them isn't new, they had the chance to get it as they progressed and got more frames, and we should incentive people to get nitain every time they can, as soon as they can, so later they won't have worries. Then later we will have piles of Nitain waiting for new things, we will be able to get them in day 1 just like everything else, this is, provided we play a game mode that is rather random. Of course Nitain isn't perfect, but seriously, most posts are nothing but angry rants without any feedback, any options, "it's bad" isn't enough. For example, we could have a "first alert" bonus that gave 1 Nitain. That at least 1 certain Nitain per day. Kinda like the first mission affinity bonus that we get, except it's on an alert (there' almost always at least 1 alert going, not having access to the node is only excusable to new people). In the end, the monster will die down, the shock will be over, the system will be fully integrated, prices will go down, people will craft Nezha without emptying their wallets and soon they will be getting Frustrated with "yet another Nezha part", a little few people will even make a thread about how they don't want his parts anymore and there will be something else to be angry about. But at least we can still get things, one way or another, they aren't behind a paywall/pay4RNG. On another note, I'd love to sell my Loki sets for that price, because this days I see them going as low as 50p, and it hurts my profit (I like Sabotage what can I say). Edited December 18, 2015 by God_is_a_Cat_Girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePredicament Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Solution: Parts drop on top of whatever the reward is. Still RNG behind a daily wall, which is still worse than farming for parts in the void or boss nodes, even piece by piece quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakoBluewing Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I actually assume DE put it in there because people thought the rewards within the sortie pool were "subpar" and "unimpressive." Whats cooler as a reward than a brand new shiny frame? Yeah, sure, I'm sure it was probably at least involved some sort of thought about profit - but to think otherwise would be like being surprised when burger king doesn't give out free whoppers on thanksgiving. What I was going at with the whole '2 variables' or whatever is that it's not so much a fact, but an assumption your making - hence why I tried to include my example of how someone could say "people complain about anything that makes them wait" *such as any frame that has a timewall). Thing is, a timewall doesn't increase grind - it doesn't effect grind at all - so if people were only to complain about frames with increased grind all the "complain because timewall" frames would be removed from that list - particularly because they had no grind on some of them (you literally get the mission, do a quest for a part, build part, get next part, build that, rinse-repeat : no grind, just waiting for builds). Every single person is going to have their own specific reason as to why they don't like (in this case) the Nezha placement. You might say because the grind, I might say because it's not the most solo-friendly thing, bob over there might say because it removed the weapon he wanted from the pool. Simply casting a net and calling it one reason doesn't get the broad sense of what it is, and really that's what I'm getting it - try not to break it into generics, because then we don't get the full breadth of expressed issues. I am angry because of all the factors you listed and more. I can't do missions with squads due to my poor internet connection, therefore I am stuck in solo and I don't have very powerful mods. At the same time they removed potatoes, stuff which EVERYONE will appreciate. Yeah no it still doesnt add up. Actually i should again cite definition of tedious. It doesnt describe anything positive, so yeah no wonder that ppl are complaining. It is self evident. Youre playing free 2 play game with expectation that you can acquire everything in the game for free. Then suddenly you hit a grindwall, what ppl tell you?? buy it with premium currency, you dont have premium currency?? ppl will gift it to you if you do another grindwall, what will company making game do with money earned that way?? make another grindwall which will perpetuate this cycle. No sorry, your only option to acquire it for free is to wait till it drops. The problem with Nezha in comparisson to other frames is that it is tedious to get. I don't know if there is another way other than this thread to voice our issue. "oh we can get it from trading" oh wait people are selling each part for 100p for refrence loki prime set sells for 175p. nezha is worth more than a prime lol what? That is exactly the problem. Maybe preventing Nezha to be traded for plat would work. I mean, right now getting the nezha set on trade costs more than getting it from the store, and that means it costs more than a Nezha which includes potato, warframe slot (40p) and saves you the resources and credits to build it (Which could be added in platinum too using the information on the store) In the end building it costs a lot more than buying it on store if you consider all the resources and the bonus stuff not included. I would not pay more than 20 plat for each part, but some users are asily scammed. The worst part of the whole thing is that ever since the new login rewards were implemented I can't get a single platinum discount, which means I can't buy platinum to get Nezha. This and the fact that war needs borken war to build and broken war needs war to build are terrible mistakes DE made. I mean, I don't know if there is a thread about the War/Broken War thing. But there should be because I am sure many players would not like to sacrifice a potatoed weapon they got as reward from a quest to build a weapon that is not really better because it is totally different (One is slash damage the other impact). Realy, There should be a way in which we could voice our opinion on those two things to DE. The first would be how unfair and terrible it is to obtain Nezha and how absurd it is to make War require Broken War to build and Broken War requiring War to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknow99 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Kill Vor first for Trinity Parts. Kill Lech Krill first for Nezha Parts. Amen. Naaah man, that Phoboss boss fight doesn't make sense (Vor is supposed to be cut in half during the Mercury battle, and afterwards become Corrupted Vor...And what the Hek is Lech Kril doing in 2 boss nodes?! o.O ) and should be replaced by something less strange... However, it'd still be better than adding a warframe to a 15-days season with one chance per day & a reward pool this big! >:/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YasaiTsume Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Naaah man, that Phoboss boss fight doesn't make sense (Vor is supposed to be cut in half during the Mercury battle, and afterwards become Corrupted Vor...And what the Hek is Lech Kril doing in 2 boss nodes?! o.O ) and should be replaced by something less strange... However, it'd still be better than adding a warframe to a 15-days season with one chance per day & a reward pool this big! >:/ What I heard is the Phobos fight was before he got demoted :v He went to Mercury after he got demoted. Alot of Vor's appearences never make sense anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluggoV2 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Banshee was nowhere near as bad, I got her parts fairly quickly when infested still had nodes on the Starchart V1 back in U10. Banshee was nowhere near as bad as what nezha will be because the sortie's "replayability". Its not a grind, its a timesink and rng nightmare because you can't grind it in the first place. Its literally 1 chance a day. with a sub 1% chance of getting a part at any given time. And the ultimate dilution over time because of permanence of being stuck in sorties as a reward. Actually, U10 Banshee drop tables were changed and she was much easier to get. Been playing for a while... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorbanGado Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 At the same time they removed potatoes, stuff which EVERYONE will appreciate. Yeah no it still doesnt add up. Actually i should again cite definition of tedious. It doesnt describe anything positive, so yeah no wonder that ppl are complaining. It is self evident. Youre playing free 2 play game with expectation that you can acquire everything in the game for free. The thing about quoting tedious is it also applies to potentially everything behind RNG. If I spend 60 missions doing just T3 survivals or 40 missions of T1 captures, it becomes dull and tiresome. The fact that Sorties at least rotate enemy factions, tilesets, mission types, and 'condition types' keeps it a changing experience compared to that. The potato thing, yeah, I can totally agree with that. That was a weird move - of course, at the same time people were complaining about how diluted the table was and how hard it would be to get the warframe they wanted out of there, so I can see the thought pattern on that. Would have been better to get rid of the Exilus and generic cores out of it. Considering it's the only way for newer folks to get something like the wraith's and vandals they may have missed, it's nice those are in there (granted vets that already have them don't want them, but you'll never win with everyone). The lenses we can't get anywhere else (unless you want to pay-only market those), so they'd need to come up with a place for those in order to free up all of those slots. At least a potato happens after every 2 weeks normally, so it wasn't something that got pulled that you can't ever get elsewhere. To be clear - in case I'm not - I'm not arguing against you over the fact that I wish it wasn't in the sorties, because neither of us really want's it in the sorties. The only difference is you call it tedious and I call it difficult for those not incredibly skilled or decked out to do solo (or for that matter, I'm pretty sure a full group of folks not that skilled would have difficulty with it). On the F2P note - if you've been around the circuit of f2p games, you quickly learn that there is almost always content in which you cannot even access unless you pay actual money to do so. In the case of Warframe, dismissing the existence of trade (because let's face it, trade chat is a mess) that would be weapon slots, warframe slots, skins, and some cosmetics. Every single warframe can be gotten by just waiting it out and being patient (except those vaulted, at which point excluding trade means they aren't available for anyone). Same with weapons. Just because you are impatient doesn't mean it can't be gotten from just playing. Rise of the Hutt Cartel - that can only get gotten through real money, that's "not getting for free." You could say that time is money - but at that point simply playing any game means it isn't free. It's pay for convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ZammnZaddy Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 People are forgetting that Nezha was not meant for us and need to be grateful that DE not only brought it here but made it tradeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Skode Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 "oh we can get it from trading" oh wait people are selling each part for 100p for refrence loki prime set sells for 175p. nezha is worth more than a prime lol what? NEVER buy parts week one... I always stand by that. Trin Prime sets lost 200p in value in less than a week... That pricing is just people trying to cash in on high day one inpatient tenno demand (they get that x3 and they can BUY nezha, built, with reactor and slot with change). He will be cheap as soon enough, supply and demand and what have you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragunova Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Youre playing free 2 play game with expectation that you can acquire everything in the game for free. Then suddenly you hit a grindwall, what ppl tell you?? buy it with premium currency, you dont have premium currency?? ppl will gift it to you if you do another grindwall, what will company making game do with money earned that way?? make another grindwall which will perpetuate this cycle. No sorry, your only option to acquire it for free is to wait till it drops. Telling that is the only way to get him don't make it true, I showed you others way and because you don't want them dont make them unavailable ... You said first it's MY only choice to get him, and no, got 725pl by trading, can get her easily in the market but no, I prefer playing sorties and drop the piece and get him when I'll get him, still a choice, not an obligation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknow99 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 What I heard is the Phobos fight was before he got demoted :v He went to Mercury after he got demoted. Alot of Vor's appearences never make sense anyway. Wut? So it's before Mercury but the player meets him...After...Vor's prize quest?!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Skode Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Wut? So it's before Mercury but the player meets him...After...Vor's prize quest?!... The tutorial quest ie mercury vor came much later, with ps4 version launch if I recall (either way it was added in a good while into the games existence). It's all messed up... Alad V is another who is all over the place now with his constant appearances from past endeavours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzik Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Weighted drops and RNG being what they are, I'd be surprised if I ever got a single part before this game dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)B0XMAN517 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I'm sure glad DE decided to reduce the grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxyKabam Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 People are forgetting that Nezha was not meant for us and need to be grateful that DE not only brought it here but made it tradeable. ty DE we're so glad you chose to sell a product to us so we can give you money any real reason DE wouldn't throw the china frames in our version? little werid for a business to turn down money for work they've already done making it tradable just shows how backwords nezha's implementation is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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