Sydon - Perfect Oppurtunity Missed To Make A Cold Weapon

[Xekrin]

I've read a few threads in feedback on this weapon and many people are rather disappointed with this already, mainly due to it being puncture yet its stance involves more slashing/crushing maneuevers than anything.  But this isn't about that.

 

Poseidon, Greek God of the Sea.  Wields a trident. This would have been a perfect chance for DE to make a weapon with a bit of innate cold (closest thing to water we got) damage.  The ground slam at the very least could have been an aoe cold attack that freezes enemies nearby.

 

Now this may conflict with with its innate puncture (mostly useful against armor) being that cold is best used against corpus.  But that actually could make sense in a way.  A two-pronged (get it?) weapon that is useful against multiple factions.

 

Not to mention (I'm mentioning it) the fact that it is wielded by underwater grineer anyway.

 

Anyway, they promised us more cold weapons and I just feel they totally missed what could have been a great thing.  Instead it seems (based on youtube reviews, forums posts) to be every other "polearm" reskinned.

 

Ah well....

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

I don't get people complaining about the stances for it looking like mostly slashing / crushing attacks. Unless i'm wrong, the attacks still do piercing damage, correct?

Edited January 7, 2016 by -Mr.Meeseeks-

[Naqel]

Instead it seems (based on youtube reviews, forums posts) to be every other "polearm" reskinned.

 

All melee weapons will feel that way, because stances being separate from weapons means that the weapons are nothing more than stat-packs/skins.

 

Fortruly unique and interesting melee weapons to happen, they have to happen as a new type of weapon entirely, or the stances have to go away in favor of per weapon movesets.

[Guardian_Legion]

I don't get people complaining about the stances for it looking like mostly slashing / crushing attacks. Unless i'm wrong, the attacks still do piercing damage, correct?

because it feels wrong to have a lance style weapon used nothing like a lance

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

I think it was a missed opportunity for it to be its own category & its own special stance. Smh *sad face*

[Plushy]

More like perfect opportunity missed to make a spear category for melee

[AXCrusnik]

I don't get people complaining about the stances for it looking like mostly slashing / crushing attacks. Unless i'm wrong, the attacks still do piercing damage, correct?

How about pretend Sydon is a Nikana that uses Hammer stances and try that logic again...

 

Basically it looks stupid. Some of the combos are passable for what it is... but some of them are far from it

Edited January 7, 2016 by AXCrusnik

[taiiat]

or both! 50% Puncture, 50% Ice.

that would definitely be different.

 

 

and i concur, usually Melee Weapons are one off unique Stances because raisons, yet this one isn't? hmph.

there's a lot of Lances/Spears we could have in Warframe... so shouldn't we create a new category for something that can easily be followed by 6 or 8 or 10 more Weapons in the Archetype?

[Naqel]

So shouldn't we create a new category for something that can easily be followed by 6 or 8 or 10 more Weapons in the Archetype?

 

As I mentioned in a separate thread, "polearms" in Warframe are just an arbitrary division of staves.

 

The whole Polearm category should be renamed Spears, and include only weapons with a single primary striking edge/tip(Tipedo), anything with 2 striking edges/tips(Orthos) should be moved to Staves.

From then onwards, staff stances should not include any moves that grasp at one of the tips, and spears should not include moves that strike with the bare/decorative end.

[Xekrin]

As I mentioned in a separate thread, "polearms" in Warframe are just an arbitrary division of staves.

 

The whole Polearm category should be renamed Spears, and include only weapons with a single primary striking edge/tip(Tipedo), anything with 2 striking edges/tips(Orthos) should be moved to Staves.

From then onwards, staff stances should not include any moves that grasp at one of the tips, and spears should not include moves that strike with the bare/decorative end.

Striking with the blunt end isn't really the problem here, its hitting things with the pointy end but not actually using the points.  It should be a stabby weapon, thrusted forward not swung in arcs as if the sides of the tines are the intended impact point.  This is based solely on my watching youtube reviews though as I've yet to gather up the 150 nitain required for research and can't buy the thing outright (actually probably could, but not worth it).  Though I can't say for certain if either stance does not produces these attacks, however, so I could be wrong.

 

Regardless, this thread isn't really about that, plenty of those already.  This is a sad tribute to the overlooked cold damage possibility that could have made this a truly unique weapon.

 

All melee weapons will feel that way, because stances being separate from weapons means that the weapons are nothing more than stat-packs/skins.

 

Fortruly unique and interesting melee weapons to happen, they have to happen as a new type of weapon entirely, or the stances have to go away in favor of per weapon movesets.

 

This is true, but by reskinned I meant they are pretty much carbon copies of others, no difference in stats, or no major difference, other than being puncture (and no cold whatsoever).  Obviously every weapon using the same stance is going to be pretty much the same combo wise, its the stats and the flavor that makes it different in those cases.

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

because it feels wrong to have a lance style weapon used nothing like a lance

 

How about pretend Sydon is a Nikana that uses Hammer stances and try that logic again...

 

Basically it looks stupid. Some of the combos are passable for what it is... but some of them are far from it

I can see your point, though from a practical point of view, I wouldn't enjoy a stabby-stabby stance. With pokes and jabs, it'd be an annoyance to hit more than 1 enemy at a time; perhaps even impossible. At least the with slashing / crushing stances you can fairly easily hit more than one enemy at a time with the broad slashing / swiping attacks.

 

I know that if it did have its own stance with more stabs and pokes involved, I would definitely be more likely to use Tonbo over the Sydon since it slashes with broad strokes and could much more easily hit multiple enemies.

Edited January 7, 2016 by -Mr.Meeseeks-

[Epsik-kun]

I know that if it did have its own stance with more stabs and pokes involved, I would definitely be more likely to use Tonbo over the Sydon since it slashes with broad strokes and could much more easily hit multiple enemies.

And that would be called a "style preference" which is a great thing. In the same situation I would pick Sydon just because lance fight mechanics.

 

Also, Spear category could use high innate reach and punch-through in the lane of a stab, which would make them not limited to hitting one target at time, yet uniquely different from other weapons. Some attacks (especially the slide attack) could remain wide swipes, but use lower multipliers compared to other weapons and convert physical damage into impact/slash depending on type of spear.

[Mousarchy]

 

And that would be called a "style preference" which is a great thing. In the same situation I would pick Sydon just because lance fight mechanics.

 

Also, Spear category could use high innate reach and punch-through in the lane of a stab, which would make them not limited to hitting one target at time, yet uniquely different from other weapons. Some attacks (especially the slide attack) could remain wide swipes, but use lower multipliers compared to other weapons and convert physical damage into impact/slash depending on type of spear.

 

ohh i didnt think about that for slide attacks. i should edit my forum topic to include that. its nice and make it a weapon you arnt just gonna throw on for the crazy high slash dash.

[taiiat]

make Polearm into Spear

but those Animations don't thrust, or jab, or shove.

they have the bit of(and then some) swinging slashy that Spears should have, but they shouldn't be mostly/all swinging slashy.

 

could some Stances for Polearm be created that are mostly Stabby with some Slashy, rather than the other way round? sure i guess... but Sydon is the only Weapon in that Archetype that really makes sense with those Animations. Tonbo could get away with it, but it's definitely a slashy.

[Keltik0ne]

I think it was more a missed opportubity to make a good weapon.

[Naqel]

but those Animations don't thrust, or jab, or shove

 

They should.

That's beside the point really.

 

My point is that there should be a clear distinction between weapons with one "working end"(like the Tonbo, which despite it's decorative spike has a single primary blade), and ones with two(like the Orthos, which is a bladed staff, not a spear).

The naming change is simply a part meant to make it more clear(staves are also polearms), the animation and sorting updates are what's the real meat of the issue.

[HAYABU5A]

100% cold damage would have been awesome for the trident 

 

innovation is starting to drop off with these missed opportunities and variety getting stale 

[AkerTheSpjot]

Yeah, it must have slipped their mind, heh.

And sure, it's already a status weapon, I imagine making it purely elemetal would be a cool thing to do. Almost a no-brainer.