Body Count Was A Mistake.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

wait, what happens when you breach the 200% crit chance mark.... #EXPLOSIVECRITS

Sorry to break it to you but nothing happens. Using both crit mods + 2 avenger procs on my amprex granted red crits the whole time, but not an explosive crit, lol. :((((

 

On thread, the mod in question particularly caught my attention because I'll finally be able to drop duration on my ash for good (was using bladestorm augment). Having two sets of arcane trickery that's where my invisibility comes from, 3 extras slots for ash, infinite invisibility, infinite combo.

[faiyde]

This was a mistake, Its not even a buff for melee as it highly favours fast attacking crit weapons over slower attacking status or base damage ones. As such if they ever bring melee as a whole up to par with guns either they need to nerf this or have the other buff not favor the same weapons. Its just uneven, badly done idea.

[DSpite]

Does this mean I can now take my Glaive into melee against L100 HG in Sorties?

[Autongnosis]

Does this mean I can now take my Glaive into melee against L100 HG in Sorties?

Dunno about the Glaive, but the Cerata works .-.

[DeMonkey]

How is this not balanced -_-

 

Yeah, I was thinking the same. Are only primaries allowed to red crit or something? Must have missed that memo.

 

This rewards you for continued usage of a melee weapon, you get no benefit from Body Count/Blood Rush if you quick attack occasionally and spend more time using your guns.

[LurkenLurker]

Yes and no. We get mostly an improvement to crit melees due to the crit chance mod, and... (shameless self plug) https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/597374-the-state-of-melee-weapons-balance-between-crit-and-non-crit-viable-melees/?

 

Yes and no. We get mostly an improvement to crit melees due to the crit chance mod, and... (shameless self plug) https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/597374-the-state-of-melee-weapons-balance-between-crit-and-non-crit-viable-melees/?

Now hold on even my lowly lacera can run a zerker build now with this mod

[Buttaface]

Oh NOES! With the new mods, melee still has to jump around closing range and hit many times to get to 75% of the damage a gun starts out at shooting things 40m away!

 

So OP!! Nerf! Nerf!

Edited January 26, 2016 by Buttaface

[LurkenLurker]

Oh NOES! With the new mods, melee still has to jump around closing range and hit many times to get to 75% of the damage a gun starts out at shooting things 40m away!

 

So OP!! Nerf! Nerf!

Well as a melee bladestorm ash this one mod now makes it even more unspeakable 

[(XBOX)Hot Granny Jam]

Red Crit Cerata explosion while invisible? I can't wait until consoles get this.

[LurkenLurker]

Will body count and rising storm stack i wonder 

[Buttaface]

Ash...bad example to start, and Bladestorm getting reworked, so try again. I don't know if Body Count even works on Press 4s such as Blade Storm, EB and Hysteria anyway. The only way Body Count is bad design is that it is bandaiding something that should be innate without mods, 10s or so melee counter, not that it is OP.

[rapt0rman]

Ash...bad example to start, and Bladestorm getting reworked, so try again. I don't know if Body Count even works on Press 4s such as Blade Storm, EB and Hysteria anyway. The only way Body Count is bad design is that it is bandaiding something that should be innate without mods, 10s or so melee counter, not that it is OP.

My thought on this is bringing down body count to 6-8 seconds, and adding those 6-4 seconds onto the base combo timer.

[Echowing]

 I don't know if Body Count even works on Press 4s such as Blade Storm, EB and Hysteria anyway.

I've tested with wukong's Primal Fury, and it only has the base combo duration.  I don't think this mod effects them sadly, especially considering the synergy with Wukong.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Echowing

[Thrymm]

It says alot when I'm reading this, and realizing that not even x4.5 damage and red crits is going to make me go melee in times I wouldn't have already.

 

Given that, I think they are fine.

[(PSN)PresidentOwnage]

I think this topic should be moved to general feedback as it has nothing to do with weapons

[NezuHimeSama]

This was a mistake, Its not even a buff for melee as it highly favours fast attacking crit weapons over slower attacking status or base damage ones. As such if they ever bring melee as a whole up to par with guns either they need to nerf this or have the other buff not favor the same weapons. Its just uneven, badly done idea.

Actually, this really favors slow-hitting high-damage crit weapons, as they can scale a lot further, and will hit acceptable damage more quickly as well.

In other words, war/scindo + eternal war + berzerker = fast hitting, high damage yellow crits, and if you stick around, even harder hitting red crits.

 

Stuff like tekko, with it's 30% base crit chance, can start hitting reds pretty early, but fail to keep up with heavier weapon damage due to low base damage and the multitude of weapon speed augments you can stick on something. The 3x crit multi weapons are more serviceable, but they frequently have terribly low damage and high attack speed, making them scale much more poorly, not to mention often having weak range and awkward stances that are more geared towards single targets.

Atterax is super crazy, though. Massive range, large multiplier. S#&$ base damage and meh stance, but dat range! Wipe out whole spawns of enemies with a single twirl.

If we had pink crits, though, maybe.

Edited January 26, 2016 by NezuHimeSama

[BluelitHalo]

The real balancing factor of this mod is that you have to sword-alone to get a combo multiplier. Guns kill easier and safer because you don't have to get close. Honestly, it's about time melee had things that justified how much more risk you have to assume to use it compared to a powerful gun.

Meanwhile, melee doesn't waste ammo. Good luck dumping ammo restores to kill Level 100+ enemies, while I continue to simply mash the melee button until they die.

There were several occasions where I out-DPS'd people in my Survival and Interception groups using melee alone, even before these mods came.

Edited January 26, 2016 by AzureEmulation

[(PSN)DBR87]

I cannot wait until this is a thing on PS4. It has been a long time coming but melee can finally shine and not get snubbed by meta snobs.

[Daz11]

Its a bandaid mod like speed holster, except speed holster is not even worth the slot :D

 

Really DE instead of fixing the combo multiplier you put this bandaid mod that has managed to make way for this. I'd say its broken, on a broken system, on a broken game c:

 

I like the idea to have mods alter or add more to your combo multiplier, IF IT WASN'T SO BROKEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[Rehtael7]

This started out as half-praise, half-confusion. I ADORE what bodycount does, but it's true that we shouldn't need it in the first place. As for Blood Whatsit, I get that they're meant to be used in a pair, but the problem is now that they both exist, they've become new mandatory mods. This is the new Serration + Split Chamber of melee weapons. It's fun, it's powerful, it's new and interesting, but it KILLS build diversity.

[45neo]

This started out as half-praise, half-confusion. I ADORE what bodycount does, but it's true that we shouldn't need it in the first place. As for Blood Whatsit, I get that they're meant to be used in a pair, but the problem is now that they both exist, they've become new mandatory mods. This is the new Serration + Split Chamber of melee weapons. It's fun, it's powerful, it's new and interesting, but it KILLS build diversity.

not technically... These mods are good but only in a long run the other builds are just as viable (except in survival missions where you are going for 100 waves or something silly like that). So in my opinion these new mods increase build diversity. 

 

basically look at it this way most mods in builds are "mandatory" but the more powerful mods that are added to the game the more mixes of "mandatory" mods you have. So all in all if De keep adding mods like these it will increase build diversity eventually.

[(PSN)DBR87]

This started out as half-praise, half-confusion. I ADORE what bodycount does, but it's true that we shouldn't need it in the first place. As for Blood Whatsit, I get that they're meant to be used in a pair, but the problem is now that they both exist, they've become new mandatory mods. This is the new Serration + Split Chamber of melee weapons. It's fun, it's powerful, it's new and interesting, but it KILLS build diversity.

 

I think where a Excalibro, Saryn, Chroma, or Valkyr would build a melee weapon for long use I don't think a Nova, Mag, Vauban, any other squishy frame would build a melee weapon for the same reason as a more melee suitable frame would. You'd probably want your War to have as much base damage as possible on Mag for the "oh crap, I am reloading and they are on top of me!" Where a Rhino would build his War with the thought "What til I get warmed up and I'm gonna wreck you all!" kind of mentality. Just seems these mods are only good if you're going to stay in melee mode and not just quick melee once and again.

[Otaiken]

I think where a Excalibro, Saryn, Chroma, or Valkyr would build a melee weapon for long use I don't think a Nova, Mag, Vauban, any other squishy frame would build a melee weapon for the same reason as a more melee suitable frame would. You'd probably want your War to have as much base damage as possible on Mag for the "oh crap, I am reloading and they are on top of me!" Where a Rhino would build his War with the thought "What til I get warmed up and I'm gonna wreck you all!" kind of mentality. Just seems these mods are only good if you're going to stay in melee mode and not just quick melee once and again.

 

See, I view the fact that you're really pushed into playing specific frames in order to be able to go full melee as a bad thing. Mag can also equip here melee weapon can't she? So what makes you think that sword alone is only for the other guys.

 

The difference is that those particular frames can get away with fewer mods slots as they make up for some of that through their abilities (no Life Strike on Valk for example). But if you want to mix it up and go with some other frame you're gonna run into some serious hurldes and these new mods make it worse. I think you should be able to go sword alone entirely depending on your weapon build and your player skill.

 

Also, I'm getting absolutely sick of the melee frame trifecta of Loki, Valk, Excal. Yet when you try to bring melee into higher levels with other frames you run into problems. That is unless you want to spam restores (what fun that is) or simply CC everything to oblivion and hack at statues.

 

I guess I'll explore melee Trinity now, hopefully that might keep me entertained for a while. Though that is once again the case of simply using the frame to make up for the shortcomings of the melee playstyle.

Edited January 26, 2016 by LocoWithGun

[Autongnosis]

I guess I'll explore melee Trinity now, hopefully that might keep me entertained for a while. Though that is once again the case of simply using the frame to make up for the shortcomings of the melee playstyle.

She's real fun though.

 

Mesa as well is an excellent melee frame.

[NezuHimeSama]

Blessing trin melee is fun, but blessing trin was always fun.

I haven't had problems with melee Rhino or Oberon, either, and Saryn is built for melee.