[Focus V1.1] It Is Not A Bug Anymore, It Is A Nerf.

[cx-dave]

16 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

A big part of the issue with this change is not that it nerfs all Focus gain. A big part of the issue with this change is that it nerfs all Focus gain except static Interception/Draco farming.

 

 

This change punishes people who play casually and rewards people who cheese-farm on Draco. 

 

Please, re-read your post with that last sentence in mind. This change punishes casual play and rewards intensive grinding.

There's no need to power farm it in a cheese group. You can cap your daily Focus in around 18 minutes doing it alone (while actually playing). I don't think that's too much to ask.

Edited February 29, 2016 by cx-dave

[TheLexiConArtist]

Sure, if you're running around "Stealth Killing" by swinging Primed Reach heavy weapons or Hushing your utterly broken Tonkor to kill entire rooms without breaking the combo counter.

Meanwhile anyone else is lucky to get 1000 - 2000 focus per Convergence because there's always that one random unit that decided they were alert for some reason even when you're trying the stealth tactic with actual stealth kills (finishers), thus screwing over your combo. Or you just have to lose precious Convergence time waiting for them to move and look away, to say nothing of the time it takes to actually perform the finisher animation...

Alternatively, the sheer number of Eximus/Heavy units that you have to cut your way through, if the game is nice enough to spawn them in the direly limited time, when you're doing it in good old survival runs.

 

I got about 14,000 focus in a 40 minute survival run and I considered that a good venture. Here you are getting more than that in 45 seconds. The system's perfectly balanced out though right?

[cx-dave]

That's not how I did it, but I'm sure it would net more Focus than 14k in 40 minutes if that's what you're after. 

[Educated_Beast]

17 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

I got about 14,000 focus in a 40 minute survival run and I considered that a good venture. Here you are getting more than that in 45 seconds. The system's perfectly balanced out though right?

He has an affinity booster and maxed Naroman XP boost for melee.  The best score I've obtained by saving heavies in one room for later, killing only what I need to keep x5 stealth timer up, waiting to hit orb right after cast invisible for max killing time, and purposely not completing objective so I can better predict where convergence spawns (forward where objective is compared to your location) is 15000 and I had a booster with Naroman on max damage max prime reach orthos (and greater lens on Loki and melee weapon).  

 

That is not repeatable.  I got that score because I left heavies for later and new heavies spawned.  Typically I get about 4K to 6K (8K to 12K with booster) per orb, with some bad runs at 3K (bad spawns or orb spawn with no close enemies) and some good runs at 14K.  My average is probably around 5K with no booster and I very rarely lose stealth counter.

 

I consider myself pretty good at stealth.  I even have multiple Loki warframes so I don't lose lens when working on different school.  With all that said, an average run on Draco is just as fast to max focus as a good run in stealth.  If you have a bad stealth run, then your way better off on Draco. 

 

Not to mention anyone can leech Draco, stealth takes some effort to pull off.  All in all, my synoid simulor hall of mirrors mirage can max out faster, without even cheesing draco with pre-built team.  

 

That score was an exception and not the norm.  18 minutes is only possible with affinity booster and maxed XP Naramon and specific loadout.  

 

Anyone can get same, if not better results in terms of time to max focus on draco without even trying (ev trin, RJ excal, buffer, or frost - preferably frost buffer).  As a matter of fact, your rewarded for not killing.  As long as you have lens on all your gear, you get more focus than the guy killing during the convergence.  Since the lens values are so low (1.5%), your extra focus from doing all killing won't net you more than the guy casting roar or whatever.

 

Focus needs boosts to stealth to make it an attractive alternative to Draco.  I recommend just removing convergence all together when use "solo" as game type and go back to old lens values of 5% and 7% for greater.  Convergence is for coop, why punish the solo player that may need a pause button often?

 

What's the point of having a focus cap if also nerf stealth?  There is always going to be guys that manipulate system and buy boosters to cap out fast.  Why punish everyone and force us onto that horrible node called Draco to be able to see progress?

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by Educated_Beast

[BloodfireSouls]

On ‎2016‎-‎02‎-‎28 at 3:26 AM, DeMonkey said:

Someone else who can't read.

We all agree that we shouldn't clear it in 5 minutes, do you know what's already in place to stop that happening? The sodding daily cap. Why on earth would DE raise the sodding cap if they wanted us to earn less? 

Jesus that comment has made me angry, if you're going to make a strawman at least read the previous comments so that you don't make a bad strawman, because that one is just garbage.

''Don't like the grind, don't play it''. Who are you to say that? Because we disagree with a change made by DE we should all up and leave the game instead of providing feedback?

There are some people who really shouldn't post without thinking, I'm afraid you're one of them.

After re-reading my post, I'll agree I was in the wrong, but you are also in the wrong for telling me I shouldn't post in the forums when you could've just said you didn't agree with my post.  You are just as in the wrong as I am.

And FYI, I can read.  If I couldn't I wouldn't be able to respond to you.

Edited March 1, 2016 by BloodfireSouls

[cx-dave]

5 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

What's the point of having a focus cap if also nerf stealth?  There is always going to be guys that manipulate system and buy boosters to cap out fast.  Why punish everyone and force us onto that horrible node called Draco to be able to see progress?

 

 

 

I could mention that you can pretty consistently get free 30-60 min affinity boosters from doing raids...but then we'd have to read about why DE is forcing people into that type of gameplay and why that's not good. Bottom line, the developer likes to see some income for their efforts. 

[Educated_Beast]

1 hour ago, cx-dave said:

I could mention that you can pretty consistently get free 30-60 min affinity boosters from doing raids...but then we'd have to read about why DE is forcing people into that type of gameplay and why that's not good. Bottom line, the developer likes to see some income for their efforts. 

I'm so burned out on raids.  I ran them daily for a long time, but it's a chore to me now.  Not to mention, adding 20 minutes to your time doesn't exactly speed up focus farming and there is no guarantee you'll find an affinity booster in last wave where you have it long enough to use it (or get credit, resource booster).  

 

I buy them occasionally but don't like the game habits it produces, makes me feel like I have to play to take advantage of purchase, versus playing for fun.  

 

Anyhow, still stands, solo focus needs a boost to be competitive with Draco, and we need more rewarding areas so Draco not the only option.  Why is T4 so much less...

[Torhque]

On 2/28/2016 at 8:48 PM, Caelward said:

Both those suggestions come close to being arrogant and ignorant. At the very least, it's pretty short-sighted.

Saying we should have sets of gear all outfitted with greater lenses? How about for the various focus trees? Should we have greater lenses for those?

Either the platinum cost is getting ridiculous, or we are going to have to run a stupid number of sorties and hope that the lenses we want actually drop.

How many players actually have the time and resources for that crap. This just leads us back to why Draco is popular. Even with fewer and lesser lenses, Draco still allows those with less money/time the ability to feel like they are making progress.

Idk what the namecalling is about, but I will add that the Focus system is geared toward veteran players. 

I'll rephrase myself since I messed up. You could easily get by with your choice of two weapons and/or Warframes equipped with Lenses. You're free to use all your other gear. Just emphasize the gear with installed Lenses occasionally, and you'll accumulate Focus over time.

I'll return to my point about it being aimed at veteran players. They can easily make 40 platinum by selling Syndicate mods or extra prime items. Most veterans have more plat than they know what to do with because they've been at it for so long.

Also, you can trade for lenses since their price has tanked into nothing. The current trade system sucks, but that's a whole nother conversation.

Veteran players have already spent the time and have the resources you're referring to. Plus, Focus is a long endeavor. It wasn't meant to be completed in a week or month. How long it should actually take is another ordeal as well. 

Draco requires its own thread, so I won't touch that lol

[Technologic141]

Focus is NERF, deal with it, after this horrible nerf and wasted plat i absolutely reject focus and i play like before. Dont care about school, it is waste of electricity to start you pc only for farm focus. But only if you on high rank

On other hand this change was planned for end product (warframe final)
If you start with new account and you did quest you will gain focus from low level to max and you will gain your school with.
So you will benefit and feel how can you grove up with your MR.
Sry peps but its better for "new player" because he is evolving from start (MR3+) to end (MR30)
Rest is fuc... frustrated because quick farm is unplayable.

Dont forger it is still "beta" and we are beta testers

[0Skyrim0]

On 2.3.2016 at 11:29 PM, Technologic141 said:

Focus is NERF, deal with it, after this horrible nerf and wasted plat i absolutely reject focus and i play like before. Dont care about school, it is waste of electricity to start you pc only for farm focus. But only if you on high rank

On other hand this change was planned for end product (warframe final)
If you start with new account and you did quest you will gain focus from low level to max and you will gain your school with.
So you will benefit and feel how can you grove up with your MR.
Sry peps but its better for "new player" because he is evolving from start (MR3+) to end (MR30)
Rest is fuc... frustrated because quick farm is unplayable.

Dont forger it is still "beta" and we are beta testers

This makes absolutely no sense. First of all "We are beta testers", we are testing a new skilltree-ish thing, but yet have to struggle with the leveling up? Makes no sense. Testing, a term of of gameserver hosting, which can be used for this one too: "Higher rates than usual on the retail/stock servers, testing purpose of game mechanics and behavior. Consider it as a beta test, before it gets released to the public main server(s)", and no, this is not a Wiki quote. I have had the fun testing the damn nice Soul Fighter in Blade and Soul on their Testserver. You know how long it took me reaching max level? Not even 15 hours. Was able to test high end/end content levels and raid areas with that class, to report that "this and that needs a buff, that is too OP, has too much stun features, etc.", this here, this is simply a narrowed down nerfing WITHOUT a purpose.

Nerfing the gain rate but increasing the cap, you see that as a logical move? Ok. I guess, this conversation is just quite meaningless then.

And in no way do low level / beginners profit from this. What are you actually talking about? I gain 2k focus on my run, while a lowie gains 50k? Get your facts straight. It is 1:1, no one is a "VIP".

[Pacheon]

6 pages and DE is literally ignoring this. Solo Focus farm RIP for good. 

[Senoinya]

11 hours ago, Pacheon said:

6 pages and DE is literally ignoring this. Solo Focus farm RIP for good. 

I think they're letting Focus gains "settle before they make more changes".

You know, like they said about Saryn's rework.

... Several months ago.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Valsako

[RagingGrizzly]

I'm just going to leave this here for you guys who don't know who to farm it right.

[cx-dave]

On 2/28/2016 at 2:44 PM, BornWithTeeth said:

On 2/29/2016 at 8:02 AM, EDYinnit said:

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I find waiting around and trying to make a good group of enemies isn't really playing. Feels like I'm wasting my time. At least in the other used to be viable farm modes you were on the move and constantly progressing.

(sorry can't get rid of the broken formatting)

Edited March 10, 2016 by cx-dave

[TheLexiConArtist]

23 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

I'm just going to leave this here for you guys who don't know who to farm it right.

Yes, because clearly using a single frame and a single weapon class should be the only reasonable way to farm anything close to a respectable level of Focus on one's own.

Not to mention the recent 'spawn fix' making it even harder to consistently get worthwhile Focus for any suboptimal stealth approaches (chain breaking due to bumping / non-aoe-swipe clearing, difficulties in staying unseen as reliably (Ash's lower Invis duration) or getting around as fast (Ivara Prowl movement reduction)) by using non-finite enemy spawns in non-endless missions.

Seems legit.

 

I've never capped out Focus on any day since the inception of the system, because my stealth play is Ivara + Covert Lethality instead of "HI I'M SNEAKY *runs around swinging 30m long sword*" and I don't do the Draco thing, and I don't fancy spending >6 hours explicitly grinding Focus when I could be doing other things.

[RagingGrizzly]

6 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Yes, because clearly using a single frame and a single weapon class should be the only reasonable way to farm anything close to a respectable level of Focus on one's own.

Not to mention the recent 'spawn fix' making it even harder to consistently get worthwhile Focus for any suboptimal stealth approaches (chain breaking due to bumping / non-aoe-swipe clearing, difficulties in staying unseen as reliably (Ash's lower Invis duration) or getting around as fast (Ivara Prowl movement reduction)) by using non-finite enemy spawns in non-endless missions.

Seems legit.

 

I've never capped out Focus on any day since the inception of the system, because my stealth play is Ivara + Covert Lethality instead of "HI I'M SNEAKY *runs around swinging 30m long sword*" and I don't do the Draco thing, and I don't fancy spending >6 hours explicitly grinding Focus when I could be doing other things.

It only takes me around 30 minutes to get all the focus I need. If I had to stay 6 hours to grind 100k focus out, I wouldn't even do it.

[BornWithTeeth]

36 minutes ago, cx-dave said:

(sorry can't get rid of the broken formatting)

Hold CTRL and right click on the quote box to get a menu which will allow you to alter quote formatting, or delete quotes altogether.

[TheLexiConArtist]

15 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

It only takes me around 30 minutes to get all the focus I need. If I had to stay 6 hours to grind 100k focus out, I wouldn't even do it.

Exactly. Because you happen to be using the method of "stealth" where you're running around at superspeed swinging a Claymore with 265% range attached.

Meanwhile outside of Dracoland and.. that, people can't generally gain focus at anywhere near that rate. Breaking 10k in a 40 minute survival is considered a pretty good run when I'm dithering about running random missions, which can be greatly lessened by the actions of the rest of the party and spawn shenanigans.

So there's 10k/40min. You wouldn't want to grind for 400 minutes, like you said.

 

Can you therefore agree, despite some outlier methods, that acquiring Focus as a whole is a failure?

[-Temp0-]

K, I'm really rarely quit on grinding in this game (because whole game is grinding) as I even ran shadow debt about 400 times and razorback alert for ~120, but gonna give up on focus now too. 

Funniest thing about this tho that many have mentioned it before, the more you want to nerf Draco or discourage people, the more it become the only real way to get anything for majority of people. Before the nerf I was doing Hieracon, surv, or stealth farming. After the nerf I can only endure Draco. And now I hate it even more (as I already didn't really like it) - that 45 sec booster in reality turns into 20-25 sec booster since by the time you get to it, excal gets to it and other people tha are after focus, there's a gap in the spawn right afterwards. So the best you're gonna get is 6k per pickup. And with 4 pickups per round it's in theory is around 25k but in reality I got more than 20 a very few times, mostly even less - and that's with the greater lens on a weapon and regular on a frame (or 1 greater on excal). And the worst thing about it, it makes you hate people and makes you hate coop/teamplay. Because basically, your day starts with Draco (because we can't jsut destroy the lens we don't want to use anymore and if you have "wrong" lens in the frame you can't use it if you want to level another school), you need to do it about 5 to 6 times to reach the daily cap and almost no one wants to stay longer than 2 waves, you sometimes have to wait more time to gather the team than that team is actually playing, and you have to deal with way too many people (I mean anyone who was doing a long grinding runs like credit farming or focus can understand what that means, cause way too many idiots you have to deal with... So after an hour of Draco I want nothing but to be left alone and the rest of the day I mostly play solo if I play at all. In the opposite to the previous stealth farm where you just could relax, turn the music on and enjoy killing some grineer for half an hour or so.

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

I'm just going to leave this here for you guys who don't know who to farm it right.

There shouldn't be a right way to farm. Personally this is something we should be able to accumulate though whatever style of play we want. 

The fact that this isn't the case means that something is wrong.

[phoenix1992]

I am sorry.
Current Focus system works like the good old affinity system. You can net more with it, if you do specif runs with specific frames. This is actually kinda "ok" in my book. Of course this hits new players and climbing players hard. They have my sympathy.
On the other hand there are movements to Nerf Shadowstep, because player "over abuse" it and it is "brokenly OP". Please all that who fought hard for this ability, and want to be able to use it - hop over to those treads and smack some sense. Players tend to forget the road down to many achievements in the game. And this is not so small hurdle - 387k affinity is not obtainable fast by all players (this is if you pursue only Shadowstep and unlock only one skill before it, if you did not begin with naramon - 437k).

Edited March 10, 2016 by phoenix1992

[DxAdder]

Focus gain at this point is broken.

It was rushed out for the second dream quest and has been for the most part abandoned. (there weren't even descriptions for the abilities when it launched)

First pass was regular lenses no cap and even with just that people using the old stealth mechanics were able to next millions of focus points.

So the put a cap on it and made adjustments to how stealth worked to further lower focus gain.

Then magically the Greater lenses came out (they forgot to add them to the market place ?) This change made stealth viable again.

The comes the Convergence (power ups !) and the lower the gain from both Lens types But finally allow shared affinity for group kills.

Now on a personal note: I paid 40 plat for for greater lenses (THEY AREN'T WORTH 40 ANYMORE) Thanks DE !!

Now we have another round of changes to spawn mechanics with further reduce solo Focus gain.

 

I'm not sure where DE is going with this, the maps are and the the fact that the group has to stay within 50m for any effective group gain

pretty well means Draco or Bust. And now there is talk of Nerfing Draco Again ?

I feel for new players, it will take you months to do what other did in weeks. 

 

My solution would be to Up the Lens gain, Up shared Affinity gain range and Lower the daily cap which would make almost any mission yield

decent focus gain regardless of what type of frame your playing.

 

 

 

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

It sounds like I'll be finding the cheesiest, most exploitative way to gain focus after this update. I was doing it with actual gameplay before, but w/e.

Max gains with min gameplay, here I come!

[Technologic141]

On 5. 3. 2016 at 4:35 PM, 0Skyrim0 said:

This makes absolutely no sense. First of all "We are beta testers", we are testing a new skilltree-ish thing, but yet have to struggle with the leveling up? Makes no sense. Testing, a term of of gameserver hosting, which can be used for this one too: "Higher rates than usual on the retail/stock servers, testing purpose of game mechanics and behavior. Consider it as a beta test, before it gets released to the public main server(s)", and no, this is not a Wiki quote. I have had the fun testing the damn nice Soul Fighter in Blade and Soul on their Testserver. You know how long it took me reaching max level? Not even 15 hours. Was able to test high end/end content levels and raid areas with that class, to report that "this and that needs a buff, that is too OP, has too much stun features, etc.", this here, this is simply a narrowed down nerfing WITHOUT a purpose.

Nerfing the gain rate but increasing the cap, you see that as a logical move? Ok. I guess, this conversation is just quite meaningless then.

And in no way do low level / beginners profit from this. What are you actually talking about? I gain 2k focus on my run, while a lowie gains 50k? Get your facts straight. It is 1:1, no one is a "VIP".

How funny will be if you will coplete warframe in 15 hours. I think you will max everything and forget about it because "Maxed" = finished, time to move in another game. Now focus school represet LONG progress and boost YOUR game style in way what YOU want. And in that case i agree with slower progress because you will naturaly moving forward with game. Frames, weapons can be maxad in minutes/hours (draco) but focus not.
Practicaly you was newbie (in current game), after 15 hours you reach max level and after that you was PRO and call what need buff and what need nerf. Are you serious?! This is like: I learn drive a car in 15 hours, after that i must say that car need brakes rework, new shaft, and tires need better profile and how i know it? Because i know how to drive now my decision is valid. no way man.

Beginer profit from start (mr2+) they exploring game and focus is increased with their progres, so if they stay 2 year in this game they will have full school. (depend if they finish second dream)
Old players dont benefit from this system but know tricks how to farm faster. (draco, long excavation, high number of kills "mag vs corpus") but they are forced to play and evolve  even if they are MR20.

That is fact what you want, you have right do disagre but think. In long perspective its better for players and now more representing experience in this game.