Remove Bursas.

[tnccs215]

Totally agree. That's why I quoted the post that said to nerf their health. :)

To be frank, I don't think the problem with bursas is the enormous amount of health, but more how they absurdly overwhelm you with all kind of damaging rockets, bubles, and worst of all: Stunning abilities.

Fact is, they are too fast, to unpredictable, and stun lock you too easily on a map that has very narrow corridors. This is beyond simply hard: It's overwhelming.

Should they be slower, their attacks more predictable, and NEVER come in groups, they would be much more realistic. Now you actually have a chance to deflect the or evade the shockwave before it stunlocks you over and over again. Now, if you get stunned, its on you pal.

But that's me. I'd rather have harder, but slower enemies that can be predictable, than to be constantly overwhelmed. This works better on melee, of course. Indeed, Dark souls series crosses my mind on this.

Yes, I do know dark souls and Warframe are as different as meat and fish. But you can always learn something. Dark souls feels punishing because, ultimately, its your fault if you die. The game gives you everything you need. If you can't do it, jokes on you.

Warframe, well.. Last time I soloed a sortie I was running towards extraction with my slow Equinox with max health, shields and 37,5% damage reduction at the farthest point of the aura, and I.... Die. I simply drop dead from a Ballista. No warning, no nothing. I literally heard the shot and than my dear Equinox was dead on the floor. "Realistic"? Yes. Engaging? No. Fair? No.

I do know Dark Souls isn't has overwhelming since 90% of enemies are melee attackers, so I understand perfectly well why its hard to be "fair" when your pawns have a gun.

Oh well, I digress.

Short story: I don't think the problem is health per se, I think the problem are overwhelming attacks that effectively prevent you from defending or answering yourself until you die.

[Khodeeakh]

Bursas are redonkulous. New(er) players have no chance playing solo (Which is better than playing with selfish Rambos) or in pairs or trios. Lvl 16 weapons with decent mods have little to no effect and spawning the bursas in large groups makes playing impossible. We even had a hard time getting to abandon the mission as we were being RAPED on spawn. Otherwise a rediculously fun game, ruined by a new bot type. Dump that junk before my friends and I need to dump the game. I'm actually embarassed about convincing friends to try the game with this new turd-ball.

[Silvus-Sol]

Bursas are simple, shoot them in the butt. Most of the people I've seen die to them do so because they are constantly attacking them from the front. They can't comprehend why their Boltor P and/or Orthos P (which works so well in Draco) isn't annihilating them immediately. So what do they do? Continue shooting them from the front because they refuse to think or adapt to the situation. Then they cry that they are OP.

 

The Bursas are great and I hope they hang around permanently.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Silvus-Sol

[Senoinya]

Bursas are simple, shoot them in the butt. Most of the people I've seen die to them do so because they are constantly attacking them from the front. They can't comprehend why their Boltor P and/or Orthos P (which works so well in Draco) isn't annihilating them immediately. So what do they do? Continue shooting them from the front because they refuse to think or adapt to the situation. Then they cry that they are OP.

 

The Bursas are great and I hope they hang around permanently.

 

I just cheese them with Trin and the Sancti Tigris.

 

Cast EV, it stuns them.

 

Run behind them with Sancti Tigris, fire both rounds. If that doesn't kill it, the next round of two shells will.

 

Behold, Bursas aren't so bad after all!

[Noreus]

Maybe change the way they are, but remove them? No, thank you. I want more content to play, and a higher end game, not just &#! blast everything I come across.

[Paradoxbomb]

Just tried a solo Spy mission on Neptune and I gotta say I can see where the complaints are coming from. Even with a fully modded Lex Prime that had felled Sortie level enemies I was struggling just to penetrate a single Bursa's shield due to their mobility, frontal plating, and how fast their energy shields recharge. Meanwhile all their attacks hit like trucks and are relatively hard to dodge in tight corridors, and sometimes the game found it funny to summon another one before I even had the chance to finish the first one off (I ended up fighting three in a row at one point). Toss in some Scrambus units to dispel your abilities and you're in full a fantastic experience. They were also level 46 despite the mission only being level 30.

 

Isolator Bursas in particular are the worst of the lot, as they constantly bum rush you, dispel your abilities, take massive chunks of health with their surprisingly accurate shotgun, or if they're feeling particularly $&*^ish use their knockdown which leaves you stunned on the floor for a rather lengthy amount of time (about long enough for them to finish you off with some point blank shotgun fire while you can't do squat about it).

 

All that said, I am glad to have them in the game (at last) and given the choice I'd gladly have Bursas, Combas, and Scrambus completely replace Nullifiers, and I'm not saying Bursas are off the walls terrible since they can still be cheesed with the right setup (but then again what enemy can't be) but considering I'm a vet with experience and powerful weapons and still had difficulty with them on a pretty average mission type, I can only imagine what hell a novice/intermediate player would have in the same scenario. Maybe slow them down a smidgen so you at least have time to get behind them without them pulling a 180 and shotgunning you in the face, and add a delay to their spawn frequency. And adjust their levels so that they match the level of other enemies.

 

 

(Isolator Bursas can go jump in a ditch though).

Edited February 13, 2016 by Paradoxbomb

[Necrius]

They suck. They're bullet sponges with damn frontal shields and lots of annoying weapons. Heck, it took over 4 clips from my Attica to kill one that bugged out and didn't attack me. Every arrow landed, but they got just too much health for someone as annoying as them.

 

Okay, maybe the whole concept is fine, but their base health can compete with some bosses and assassins and should be nerfed greatly. It's a game about mowing down hordes of enemies, not BDSM parlor.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Necrius

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I've had no problem one-shotting them with a shotgun, or two-shotting them with Rakta Cernos. People need to use better movement, you can't beat these things by just standing still. There's also plenty of skills that work on them. I think people need to stop expecting to melt everything in front of them and treat them as the challenge they warrant and pick their engagements better.

Honestly it's like complaining about 3 overlapping Nullifiers in a Survival. Why do you need to face tank and kill them? Just move away and pick them off, listen to the audio clues that warn of their presence and plan accordingly. This is hopefully the start of implementing true challenge, bring it on!

Edited February 13, 2016 by Zilchy

[Necrius]

Honestly it's like complaining about 3 overlapping Nullifiers in a Survival. Why do you need to face tank and kill them? Just move away and pick them off, listen to the audio clues that warn of their presence and plan accordingly. This is hopefully the start of implementing true challenge, bring it on!

Nope. Nullifiers are squishy as heck and can be easily cut down inside their bubbles, Bursas got both impenetrable shielding and a crapton of health and CC and heavy weaponry. And they're too mobile for something that goes all defensive and reminds a miniature robotic bunker.

[starsrift]

Why do you need to face tank and kill them?

 

Because they change facing pretty quick and when you're playing solo (ie: exploring the starchart) there's nobody else around to hold their attention. (My Kubrow loyally Leeroys in and dies in a matter of seconds). They also have increased resistance to CC effects as well as better recovery time.

[LordPreda]

All of the fan-designed enemies (manics, juggy and Bursa) are contextually triggered to appear by alarms, or too many enemies dying at once in the case of Infested.

 

I actually like the Bursa. It makes the generally squishy Corpus a bit more dangerous, and imposes a bit of caution with speedrunning.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Because they change facing pretty quick and when you're playing solo (ie: exploring the starchart) there's nobody else around to hold their attention. (My Kubrow loyally Leeroys in and dies in a matter of seconds). They also have increased resistance to CC effects as well as better recovery time.

I haven't had problems getting behind them, regardless of what frame I'm using. They die in one shot, sometimes two, I jump over them and use bullet time to slow their turn and shoot them. Try it.

Nope. Nullifiers are squishy as heck and can be easily cut down inside their bubbles, Bursas got both impenetrable shielding and a crapton of health and CC and heavy weaponry. And they're too mobile for something that goes all defensive and reminds a miniature robotic bunker.

Did you so the Sniper only Sortie Survival a week or two ago? They weren't too squishy then and yet people still tried to kill them front up, rather than backing off to another group for Life Support. That's the mentality I'm talking about.

[EvilChaosKnight]

You know, when lvl 15 Bursa sometimes survives 2 6-forma Tonkor grenades, there is a problem. Just saying.

No I don't have problems, I have Tonkor. People who don't have 6-forma gear would have a lot of problems.

 

People who say that they are fine. Here's a small challenge for you. No forma frame, no godmode frames, Karak with nothing but potato on it. Go kill a Bursa. Report back how you feel.

Edited February 13, 2016 by EvilChaosKnight

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 forma Sancti Tigris or Vaykor Hek. Boltor Prime and Rakta Cernos puts them down pretty fast, so did Latron Prime. Paris Prime did nothing, Lex Prime took 3-4 shots, haven't tried anything else yet.

[EvilChaosKnight]

3 forma Sancti Tigris or Vaykor Hek. Boltor Prime and Rakta Cernos puts them down pretty fast, so did Latron Prime. Paris Prime did nothing, Lex Prime took 3-4 shots, haven't tried anything else yet.

So multi-forma versions of: MR12 gun, MR12 gun, Casul Pr gun and MR12 gun and basically the best hand-cannon secondary with primed mods can put them down fast. Who would've thought!?

Edited February 13, 2016 by EvilChaosKnight

[-CdG-Zilchy]

You're acting as though MR12 is still some sort of effort to achieve. As I said, I haven't tested any others yet, I'm sure there are other ways, there's also plenty of Warframe abilities that deal with them comfortably. It's also really easy to stop them spawning in multiples, it seems most people don't want a challenge, they just want to complain that the game is too easy without enemies like this in it.

From my testing they do seem very resistant to the Puncture damage you'd think would put them down, using a weapon with high raw damage and modding for Radiation seems to work best. I'm sure the Hek would destroy them easily for example or perhaps you feel that the MR level for that is too high as well?

Edited February 13, 2016 by Zilchy

[Lost_Cartographer]

Ok, suggest a loadout that's reasonable for a player encountering a level 20ish Corpus planet and I'll see how I fare.  I have pretty much all frames and weapons, and can freely rank mods to the desired level.  This could be fun.  

Pick only weapons you can build from blueprints bought off the market that don't require tellurium, argon, or nitain.  Weapons like the Hind, Karak, Grakata, Tetra, the Bolto or Lex or Vasto or Spectra, Fragor, etc.

 

You know... the stuff a newbie is likely to have access to so early in the game while they're just smashing their way through the star chart before they're concerned with farming hundreds of void keys and tens of thousands of resources.  I mean yeah some of them will get into clans that have access to some powerful stuff that doesn't require these rarer resources to craft, but not all of them, and it's better to keep a player retention rate closer to 100%.

 

 I'm not even asking you to pretend you only have 60 mod points to work with, go ahead and take one you might have formad 4-6 times and apply maxed out mods.  They'll STILL take ages to drop a level 20 Bursa.

 

We as a community have to stop gauging whether or not something is "fine" based on our maxed out equipment and mods decimating it in two shots.  If it exists as early as level 20 on the starchart, in needs to be balanced against what One might call a trash selection of weaponry and unmaxed-ranked mods.    If One can't be bothered to critique something after experimenting within the conditions a new player might reasonably experience at that point in the star chart, they should just shut the hell up.  

 

A good developer builds around proper expectations of challenge for where there new content falls, not their bleeding edge players, and I'm hoping DE didn't really properly test the Bursa's scaling in house.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Littleman88

[RealPandemonium]

I did my testing on an Exterminate on Europa.  Can confirm that constant Bursa "reinforcements" is an unreasonable feature, especially since they spawn alongside a number of mooks that add to the completion counter.  This should be limited to one at a time or a couple concurrently per map.  I'm not convinced that this is intended behavior, either; it might be the Tactical Alert behavior leaking into regular nodes.  

 

One bursa is doable (though they are really poor at telegraphing their weaknesses) but the hordes of enemies and bursas that continually spawn during alarms are excessive and force you to stealth the mission or fail.

 

For reference, this was the equipment I used: http://puu.sh/n6Bv5/0176805a85.jpg ,  http://puu.sh/n6BFz/2513784143.jpg , http://puu.sh/n6BJx/8292670f4c.jpg , http://puu.sh/n6BWs/3167c1b0bd.jpg .  I think this is quite fair for a player who has reached Europa.  

 

EDIT:

Once i learned to hack the alarms ASAP and got better at hitting the Bursas' weak spot (the console) the missions became quite doable, even without needing any revives.  The maxcase for Bursas continually spawning when you don't hack the alarm is ridiculous, though.  A cap on how many Bursas can be active at once is all that's needed, IMO.  

Edited February 13, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Littledoom]

As a new player with about two weeks of sporadic play I can say I will not touch a Corpus mission for some time. I don't have the skill or equipment to deal with this things. Was doing a Extermination mission on Jupiter and had 3 play with me like a cat play with a mouse. Not fun and that they raise the amount off targets you need to kill is not fun eaither. I'm sure they are fun when you have the skill and equipment to actually be able to kill them so don't remove them. Maybe just be more precise with how and where they spawned. Just my newbie thoughts :)

[Epsik-kun]

It might be good to tone down their damage a little bit, as sometimes they just burst you down in less than one second. Aside from that, Bursas are fun.

[Lost_Cartographer]

I did my testing on an Exterminate on Europa.  Can confirm that constant Bursa "reinforcements" is an unreasonable feature, especially since they spawn alongside a number of mooks that add to the completion counter.  This should be limited to one at a time or a couple concurrently per map.  I'm not convinced that this is intended behavior, either; it might be the Tactical Alert behavior leaking into regular nodes.  

 

One bursa is doable (though they are really poor at telegraphing their weaknesses) but the hordes of enemies and bursas that continually spawn during alarms are excessive and force you to stealth the mission or fail.

 

For reference, this was the equipment I used: http://puu.sh/n6Bv5/0176805a85.jpg ,  http://puu.sh/n6BFz/2513784143.jpg , http://puu.sh/n6BJx/8292670f4c.jpg , http://puu.sh/n6BWs/3167c1b0bd.jpg .  I think this is quite fair for a player who has reached Europa.  

 

EDIT:

Once i learned to hack the alarms ASAP and got better at hitting the Bursas' weak spot (the console) the missions became quite doable, even without needing any revives.  The maxcase for Bursas continually spawning when you don't hack the alarm is ridiculous, though.  A cap on how many Bursas can be active at once is all that's needed, IMO.  

Doable =/= reasonable.

 

They need toned down, period.  It's way too big a challenge hike over everything else in the mission, even when they're alone.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Littleman88

[ShortCat]

People will go insane, when the next Corpus sortie happens (tomorrow I guess).

 

*prepares popcorn*

[Kuestenjung]

Most of us have waited so long for them to finally be ingame and you want to remove them?

 

And it is good that they spawn one after the other, better then all at the same time.

[SwooceRaiden]

I quite like the Bursas, but I think it would be good to not have them spawn on Venus or Jupiter.

 

The feeling of a lack of enemy variety (which is an incredibly common sentiment) would be mitigated somewhat by having stronger enemies appear as you advance in the Starchart. For example, the Guardsman on Ceres.

[Revel72]

So wait... Bursas are now able to be seen in Corpus missions? Just like any other regular enemy.

 

Uh... That is not really good. If they would appear just like the manics. Then I would be okay with them don't know about seeing them in normal missions. Unless the mission level is more than 25 then I am okay with seeing Bursas. As they are quite easy to kill. Ogris, Kulstar and pretty much any explosive weapon what you can use is just god like against these opponents.