Is T3 surv rigged?

[BabyBomi]

I have tried T3 surv countless times for it's rotation C. First it was for Ash, then Nova, and now Saryn. I honestly think it's pretty rigged .... I've done it many many many times and the ONLY things I have gotten are bo prime bp, forma, dual kamas prime bp, carrier prime bp.

Anyone else ever get anything good at rotation C?

[-Amaterasu-]

If by "rigged" you mean weighted drop tables then yes it is rigged but the game is certainly not plotting against you you just have bad luck

[Littlerift]

On 23/02/2016 at 11:15 AM, Grobbus said:

 

1 hour ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

RNG has very little to do with it.  the weighting of the drops has much more effect on your chances of receiving a desired drop than randomness.  this system is the least random system i've ever seen. 

What is the weighting of each item in the drop table? No one knows... and I believe that information should be shared.  Rare prime parts should be labeled rare in the drop tables, like mods or resources.

 

Actually, people do know the drop rates of many items due to data-mining.

And RNG has everything to do with it. A lot of people in this thread seem to misunderstand what RNG is. Weighted drop tables don't mean that the system is not still governed by RNG, it simply means that some things are rare than others.

Look at it this way: the shuffle function on most MP3 players works using an RNG system - the device allocates a number to every item and then randomly chooses a number. Let us assume that you have put five songs on your MP3 player. Before you ever play the tracks your device will have allocate a number to each song, we'll show that thusly:

1 = A

2 = B

3 = C

4 = D

5 = E

You're now going to listen to five tracks in a row. To simulate this, I went to Random.org and ran the test, getting the numbers: 2, 5, 2, 4, 1. As you can see, the completely random generation of numbers hasn't resulted in every track being played, in this scenario I don't hear C at all and I hear B twice. This shows that even on a very small scale and with a very small and unweighted 'drop table' I'm not guaranteed to here every song. Now in Warframe we have much larger drop tables, mostly, and the drop tables and weighted so that some items are more likely to appear than others. I'll shrink it down a bit but in this example lets say that we have the same five tracks but we have copies of some, meaning we now have ten total items.:

1, 2, 3, 4 = A

5, 6, 7 = B

8 = C

9 = D

10 = E

Back to Random.org we go: 4, 2, 8, 2, 2, 1, 5, 1, 1, 5. There we go, and now we have some really interesting results: despite the fact that the numbers were generated completely randomly we had 1 and 2 both appear 3 times. We did ten runs and we didn't even get to see item D or E, and we saw A six times out of ten despite the fact that probability dictated that it only had a 40% drop rate. B, which had a 30% drop rate, only appeared the same number of times as C which has a 10% drop rate, and D and E also had a 10% drop rate but didn't appear at all. None of this is fixed or 'non-random', but is rather a perfect expression of randomness in effect. However, the human brain is ever predictable and as such we see patterns that don't actually exist. For example, the sequence of numbers follows a pattern that my inner English post-grad is screaming to turn into a poetic metre, almost following a Spenserian style, or that of a shortened Sestina: if we split it into quatrains we could have a poem with the rhyme scheme A, B, C, B - B, D, E, D - D, E. However, despite how apparent that pattern appears to be it's complete nonsense. It doesn't actually exist within the numbers at all, it's simply my brain interpreting a sequence of numbers in a way that appeals to it. This is why loot drops in games like Warframe seem to be unfair; why they seem to be fixed and unbalanced, because the brain cannot really comprehend randomness due to its desire to always impose meaning on any sequence it discovers. However, this does not mean that the system used is not random, simply that the results of a random system can be exciting (as in my response to the sequence Random.org provided) or depressing (as in the fact that I've run T3 Survival god knows how many times and I still haven't got a fracking Volt Chassis!!!)

'tis all in the eye of the beholder.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Attley

[Myscho]

Well, DE is pretty happy about to put all new things into C rotations instead removing Orokin cells/Silver fusion core from A/B or giving some love to Orokin Derelict

[Trichouette]

6 minutes ago, Grobbus said:

Luck? Luck has nothing to do with RNG.
The drop tables are designed to drop a certain part after X runs(or more like a milestone is reached,from all the people doing it) are done.

That's absolutely wrong.

The rotation's loot table has a % of looting chance for each prime part & fuse core/cell.

So it IS luck, but the lower the % of looting, the more run you'll have to do.

[Dobermann92]

I got a Nova p chassis several days ago while I farmed for the Saryn part. Volt chassis are pretty common too, but ash systems are very rare. RNG is bad sometimes (always...)

Edited February 23, 2016 by Dobermann92

[Rawbeard]

I got 5 or 6 Bo Primes in a row. That is not even remotely RNG. especially when you go 60 minutes and AABC repeats with absolute precision. I got excited when I got silver cores instead of Ocells at the 10/30/50 mark, which lead me to believe B and C might be different too... and they were. still not what I came for, of course, but at least it was something

[CrazyCatLad]

I'm never able to be this guy but the Saryn part dropped for me at 20 minutes on my first attempt :) Still can't get her to drop from the damn Exterminates.

[(PSN) smithandwesson1]

Tables are just to diluted.Luck is everything it took me a total of 15 runs to have all of saryn prime parts.Now nikana prime for me has been impossible 57 t3 ext keys later still no blueprint.I run all void missions solo except for interception and defence which thankfully do not have the new prime parts in them.Good luck in your grind,and wouldn't hold your breath for DE to change the loot tables.

[DeMonkey]

7 hours ago, Grobbus said:

Luck? Luck has nothing to do with RNG.
The drop tables are designed to drop a certain part after X runs(or more like a milestone is reached,from all the people doing it) are done.

What game have you been playing? Because it certainly hasn't been Warframe.

[Trichouette]

Some people really have trouble understanding what RNG is...

 

[Doc_Meaningless]

I had done 20 runs in the last 7 days and i had found alla things in the drop tables except the saryn chassis: RNG hates us

[(PSN) cah55555]

This is how free-to-play games work. They can't just make everything easy to get so that everyone gets what they want in a week. You are supposed to grind. Could be five runs, could be 100 runs. The idea is, if someone gets fed up with the grind, they just might spend some money to bypass the grind all together. It's not a bad thing, it's just the free-to-play business model. If you can't stand grinding, and don't want to spend any money on the game, then I guess you don't play Warframe.

[TrinityPrime]

My T3 Survival Rotation C rewards:
3 Volt Prime Chasis BP
4 Bo Prime BP
4 Dual Kamas BP
2 Carrier Prime BP
1 Nova Prime Chasis BP
1 Saryn Prime Chasis BP <---stopped farming here

I hear I'm one of the lucky ones though...

[(XBOX)Sacrfishal Lamb]

3 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

I got 5 or 6 Bo Primes in a row. That is not even remotely RNG. especially when you go 60 minutes and AABC repeats with absolute precision. I got excited when I got silver cores instead of Ocells at the 10/30/50 mark, which lead me to believe B and C might be different too... and they were. still not what I came for, of course, but at least it was something

 

 

Every Rotation has it's own drop table. Everything on the table is weighted by percentage. Your lovely Bo Prime is probably rated at 50%.

The Saryn Parts everyone craves probably have a less than 2% chance of dropping.

RNGesus will forsake you 98% of the time (If my guess is accurate). 

Some people get it in 2 or 3 tries. Some people farm for MONTHS. <Neffy>Praise be to RNGesus.</Neffy>

 

 

Edited February 23, 2016 by (XB1) Sacrfishal Lamb

[Gwenwed]

Did so many T3S... Got Saryn on my 1st attempt since release but Volt is still eluding me.

RNG is RNG and that will never change. 

[cecil04]

If prime parts were easy to obtain than they would drop in value.

 

[Arkstorm]

For some reason... If you just don't really think too hard to get a certain part and just play casually... That's the time around in which you'll be rewarded with the "certain part."

[PEPIYEA]

No,it's not rigged.

I got Nova and Volt chassis on saturday.

[(PSN)deadbeef001]

46 minutes ago, PEPIYEA said:

No,it's not rigged.

I got Nova and Volt chassis on saturday.

Only time the grind became too much for me was for nova prime systems.

[jpgil_galad]

The drop tables are in fact weighted.

Each rotation actually has two drop tables, a Common table and an Uncommon table (a few add a 3rd category for Rares).  It works just like mods.  First you roll to see what rarity you get, then you roll on that rarity's table.  No matter how many items are in a drop table, your chances of rolling Common vs Uncommon are still the same (about 75% Common).  Note that each part has the same drop chance as other items of it's rarity.

So, T3 Survival C has a drop table with 3 Common items (including the Bo BP), 4 Uncommon Items (all the Warframe parts) and 1 Rare item (built Forma).  Each time you run rotation C, there's a 75% chance you'll get one of the 3 Common items (25%-ish chance for each individual item), and about a 23% chance you'll get one of the 4 Uncommon items (around 5.5% chance for each individual item).  The rare built-Forma fills out the rest of the table at about a 2% drop chance.

Edited February 24, 2016 by jpgil_galad

[(PSN)vamp6x6x6x]

On 2/23/2016 at 6:15 AM, Grobbus said:

Luck? Luck has nothing to do with RNG.
The drop tables are designed to drop a certain part after X runs(or more like a milestone is reached,from all the people doing it) are done.

Umm...it is ok to be drunk and play videogames, but you should maybe stay off the forums when you are so...

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

On 2/23/2016 at 1:18 PM, Trichouette said:

Some people really have trouble understanding what RNG is...

 

Passive aggression, charming. But no, most people do they just wonder if it's actually a dragon they are chasing or merely a rumor of one.

Ash parts on Grineer manics, if you are feeling quirky feel free to try to nab all those pieces and deliberately farm each grineer tileset for a chance at a manic for a chance at a a part and an additional chance it isn't a part you already own. Then we'll see how sarcastic you are after x_x. 

RNG or not, there are some aspects of this game that are intentionally preying on triggering a persons latent compusive issues or just dangling the platinum price for you in the market to take the easy way out via your wallet. It's free to play and we definitely see the results of that so it isn't as gross as it could be- but that still doesn't excuse the grind even the most hardened, tokewl4skool Tenno can defend or deny. 

[Trichouette]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)El__Lobo_Loco said:

Ash parts on Grineer manics, if you are feeling quirky feel free to try to nab all those pieces and deliberately farm each grineer tileset for a chance at a manic for a chance at a a part and an additional chance it isn't a part you already own. Then we'll see how sarcastic you are after x_x. 

You want ash ? Gear up, (read the wiki about it if you want) find a good team, and go try the law of retribution trial.

You'll get ash in 30min.

On 23/2/2016 at 0:15 PM, Grobbus said:

Luck? Luck has nothing to do with RNG.
The drop tables are designed to drop a certain part after X runs(or more like a milestone is reached,from all the people doing it) are done.

You are repeating yourself, and once again, that's NOT how it works.

You can get anything you want, even the newest prime part, on the first run. Or on the 50th.

23 minutes ago, (PS4)El__Lobo_Loco said:

RNG or not, there are some aspects of this game that are intentionally preying on triggering a persons latent compusive issues or just dangling the platinum price for you in the market to take the easy way out via your wallet. It's free to play and we definitely see the results of that so it isn't as gross as it could be- but that still doesn't excuse the grind even the most hardened, tokewl4skool Tenno can defend or deny. 

Well you can't expect anything else from a F2P game, but at least (as you said) you can get all the stuff for free, which is already nice.

"Pay to get what you want faster" is still better than "pay to get content you can't obtain"

But yes, we all know the RNG of this game is awful, and that the devs don't really care about it. We can only deal with it.

[fakeBOSHI]

The loot system works through weighted RNG. This means that on a given rotation you have a probability of drawing an item from that rotation. Each item however is weighted differently. For example on rot c of t3s Bo prime or Paris prime might be weighted at 25% probability while saryn prime chassis might be weighted at 5%. This means that at every rot c you reach, you have much less probability of getting saryn chassis and much higher chances for repeated "trash" items.

Keep in mind these are average probabilities based on few replications. Some kind (crazy) tenno run 100 keys and compile their results to calculate the probabilities.

[DeadlyPeanutt]

On 2/23/2016 at 1:39 PM, Rawbeard said:

On 2/23/2016 at 5:57 AM, BabyBomi said:

I have tried T3 surv countless times for it's rotation C. First it was for Ash, then Nova, and now Saryn. I honestly think it's pretty rigged .... I've done it many many many times and the ONLY things I have gotten are bo prime bp, forma, dual kamas prime bp, carrier prime bp.

Anyone else ever get anything good at rotation C?

 

void drops are NOT random (that is, you don't have an equal chance to receive any given drop listed in the drop tables for that mission).  void drops are WEIGHTED, which means some drops are rare and others are common.  Which drops are rare and what are your chances of receiving them?  Who knows?  That information is not published. 

So, if your desired drop is rare, you may have a 1 in 50 chance of receiving your desired drop.... you may have a 1 in 10,000 chance.  No one knows. 

Luck has very little to do with it, your odds of getting what you want are programmed in.  And those odds can be changed without notice.

I share your frustration, btw.  I think that player frustration would be reduced by having this information shared by the game makers, like they share which mods and resources are rare. 

If players had a realistic idea of what their chances were to receive a desired void drop, frustration would be reduced and players could decide if they really want to play, hypothetically, a mission where they had a 1 in 1000 chance of receiving a desired drop.

Edited February 25, 2016 by DeadlyPeanutt
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