Now that there's (MORE!) timetraveling, can we travel back in time and kill "Lotus"? Specters of Rails Updated

[Zdeadfallout]

Don't forget the lotus is HOT !!!.....

[TennoPain]

I dont like the lore at this point too but i hope we get some epic twist in story becouse after second dream it jus killed my vibe idk 

im a lore player and its all i care about so i understand u 

[BornWithTeeth]

I dunno if you can really say "I'm interested in Warframe for the lore..." if that statement ends with "...and that's why I want to change literally everything about the lore except the power armour. The power armour is cool."

[Mak_Gohae]

On 3/7/2016 at 8:46 PM, Aimop95 said:

 

Also Lotus is confirmed by the story writers to be the "good guy". So any story directions where the Lotus is evil will never materialize. Saying otherwise is being extremely rude to the writers and story tellers, as well as being purposefully stubborn and hard-headed.

They are sure doing a bad job as making the "Lotus" a good guy.

The story just keeps on revealing info that "Lotus" doesnt bother to tell us.

On 3/7/2016 at 10:00 PM, motorfirebox said:

Except that this devstream came out after Rhino Prime, and Rhino Prime established the existence of the operators as separate from the Warframes. For that matter, it's actually entirely possible that Warframes are built over top of former humans, and that those former humans also came from the Zarimon Ten-Zero. The Operators—the "Tenno"—are the children who returned aboard the Zarimon Ten-Zero. Nothing says that the adults couldn't have returned as well, as twisted abominations around which the Warframes were built.

That's a nice theory but the thing some of you folks were throwing is that DE never gave the impression that tenno where in suits and that's exactly what the video shows. One of the many times this happened.

On 3/8/2016 at 8:21 PM, ClinkzEastwood said:

In the parkour spy room primed time, there's a display of corrupted lancer and crewman who weren't exist during Orokin time.

It's already happening!

 

[Aimop95]

13 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

They are sure doing a bad job as making the "Lotus" a good guy.

The story just keeps on revealing info that "Lotus" doesnt bother to tell us.

That's a nice theory but the thing some of you folks were throwing is that DE never gave the impression that tenno where in suits and that's exactly what the video shows. One of the many times this happened.

It's already happening!

 

How are they making her look like a definitive bad guy? Holding secrets isn't exactly a crime. Nor does it make her evil.

[Evanescent]

18 minutes ago, Aimop95 said:

How are they making her look like a definitive bad guy? Holding secrets isn't exactly a crime. Nor does it make her evil.

"Hey kids, come here and listen to this deep revelation that will shake the foundation of your perception of self and that I know can and will turn some of you mad when you're still recovering from a millenia long amnesia with invasion on our doorsteps, over scones and tea!"

[Aimop95]

2 hours ago, Evanescent said:

"Hey kids, come here and listen to this deep revelation that will shake the foundation of your perception of self and that I know can and will turn some of you mad when you're still recovering from a millenia long amnesia with invasion on our doorsteps, over scones and tea!"

I'm failing to see the point here.

[folklore504]

2 hours ago, Evanescent said:

"Hey kids, come here and listen to this deep revelation that will shake the foundation of your perception of self and that I know can and will turn some of you mad when you're still recovering from a millenia long amnesia with invasion on our doorsteps, over scones and tea!"

I don't know that seems like its making the point for why Lotus didn't tell us about the tenno's nature right away.

[(PSN)Lowk721]

On 3/9/2016 at 5:22 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

They reveal that all the parts know about all the other parts. Even hunhow knows about "lotus" info because she was part of him.

That means we can use that connection against them.

Which only the Lotus has access to. If they could just hack sentients to find out where he was he wouldn't be hidden in the first place. Them having a connection doesn't matter without a means of having means to use it.

On 3/9/2016 at 5:22 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

All countries, kingdom, empires became what they are by conquering. Let's stop with this goofy idea that the Grineer are bad because they do what is normally done.

No, they didnt try to take out the tenno. They tried to learn about warframe-tech.

They found these things and in the void and tried to figure them out. They didnt. "Lotus" is the one that turned it into a slaughter.

Why do we need to kill The Sergeant for selling Warframes? Why dont the "lotus" just buys them off him?

Are you seriously using the excuse the Grineer aren't bad because they are doing the same bad things other people have done in history? Enslaving people is bad, that like a general thing that people have come to recognize.

As for the rest of that, the lore is pretty clear, they tried to take the Tenno out before they even woke up. They thought that the Tenno were in the warframes so by taking out warframes they thought they were actually doing ssomething.

"From the chaos of the Collapse, they emerged, Violent hordes of decaying clones, overflowing from their toxic womb. They flood the Origin System, swallowing colonies whole.
The twin Queens, the SISTERS, have devised a plan to transform the scattered colonies into an Empire across the planets.
The Sisters have sent their most trusted brood on a vital quest - the TENNO, hidden and asleep, must never awaken."

"The Grineer are a decaying race of militarized humans motivated by fear and envy. They have targeted the Tenno for extinction."

They started it by trying to catch the Tenno napping and countered by them waking up and not actually being in the warframe. Tenno philosophy seems to be "Don't start no s**t, it won't be no s**t". And the Grineer were all about the starting.

On 3/9/2016 at 5:22 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

It's the internet... so why not mention Hitler.....

You can swap out hitler with any other dictator, supervillain trying to take over the world; how about Red Skull. Nobody want the people enslaving everything they can to have even more power. Especially using our tools, or friend, or pets, or whatever a warframe is.

[Mak_Gohae]

On 3/8/2016 at 0:57 AM, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

Becasue it is one of the possibilities. If you get rid of the cause then the effect can't happen. You don't have to go that far back to change the event that led up to the possibility of time travel. Lotus puts tenno to sleep > Tenno wake up not knowing> Natah events happens > The events of second dream happen > assualt on the moon > Allows for time hijinks on the moon. 

Ok, but DE doesnt have to follow the rules of other stories.

Quote

Not mention whatever the Tenno do back then will have concequnces in the future. Say they stay awake and kill somebody who originally lived and had a family several generations long. You've just killed a family somewhere in the colonies  enjoying dinner.

But since we never see the colonists.... who cares?

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Also judging by how the Tenno don't really question it after they got their memory back and the fact they know she isn't Margulis; I think the Tenno already knew. That or like with the grineer/corpus on the relay, they really don't care what you are as long as you aren't working against them. The Tenno are probably just very progressive killers.

The tenno are no longer silent protagonist, they started talking.

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Where is he? Because from what I recall there was only a parts of a sentient, not Hunhow himself. Not to mention he doesn't exactly have one body.

When did we learn how to hack sentients to the point we know how to do something the other sentient had trouble doing?

 

In this tomb.

Yes, hunhow has many parts. Which is how he knows what the "Lotus" knows cause "Lotus" is part of Hunhow.

And the Sentients had trouble with what? "Lotus" didnt want to talk cause Hunhow was just stealing info from her. It seems like she has no control over it. So all we need to know is capture her and poke around to figure out the transmission that always seems to be on an open channel. We'll use Banshee, she knows about communication. Oh and Nyx to mind control "Lotus"

 

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Not really that strange. Regardless of how evil they were they established a hierarchy. Some people would have been higher up under their rule then other. Killing them ruins that. So people who were relatively well off probably won't like the life they've been accustomed to being rooted under them. The fact that the lore has people of varying classes referring to them as betrayers, also not a good sign that they'll be welcomed with open arms.

Well, dude, this is what happened in the current storyline so.... what's the issue if it happens again?

And the Corpus call them the betrayer cause of what "Lotus" had us doing. Plus the tenno left. If the tenno stay that could change but you folks worry so much about changing time.

 

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Essentially making someone else take the role the Grineer currently have. Great good job, got rid of the person who just wants to help to create the new Grineer. 

And by new possibilities you mean an entirely different story because you've essentially wiped one of the figures responsible for a lot of key events happening.

 

But if there are some other Grineer why worry about the changes if there isnt going to be any?

 

 

On 3/8/2016 at 1:49 AM, ravend said:

Mak-attack, just come out and say it, your not happy with how the game came out. You want to go back and kill everyone that started everything, first the lotus and now hunhow.

I thought that was clear. And why wouldn't you want to kill the sentients?

Quote

. its clear to me that you are upset and refuse to accept the state of the game (lore wise). I will never understand those who wish to kill the lotus for such small reasons. Yes she has withheld info from us, look at what happened to the stalker when he found out. The couldnt accept the truth and now hunts me down everytime i put on a new frame or forma an older one.  The tenno and the lotus are family and if you cant accept that, i think its time for you to move on. I know you want to side with anyone BUT the lotus, that is clear, but its not going to happen period.

We dont know what happened to Stalker and his buddies.

"Lotus" never tells you the truth. She could be lying to cover something else up.

And i dont know how making the Tenno her babies is something small. That's some crazy big sick stuff going on.

[Aimop95]

OP should probably find a new game with a story that is to his liking. Cause all his hopes and dreams for this game's plot has the highest probability of never occurring. For both in-universe reasons and story-telling reasons.

 

 

[(PSN)Lowk721]

On 3/18/2016 at 8:35 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

Ok, but DE doesnt have to follow the rules of other stories.

At this point we aren't even talking about other stories. It simple cause and effect. You've destoryed the line of events that led up to that moment IE you've destoryed the moment itself.

On 3/18/2016 at 8:35 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

But since we never see the colonists.... who cares?

Actually some of the character in game would have started as colonist. The syndicates and the relays are made up of people who aren't Corpus or Grineer meaning that they are colonist. Also Baro and his mother.

the Tenno story wise care about them so do a few of their allies. Also I'd and others would like to see how the colonist as they are now. You get rid of them now and you've essentially cheated us out of finally getting to see their stories after all this time.

On 3/18/2016 at 8:35 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

The tenno are no longer silent protagonist, they started talking.

Yeah, that is how I know they knew that weren't confused about her being Margulis. They are the ones that note that they know Margulis was already dead. And based on their reactions they still don't care that Lotus is a sentient. She's still an ally of the Tenno.

On 3/18/2016 at 8:35 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

In this tomb.

Yes, hunhow has many parts. Which is how he knows what the "Lotus" knows cause "Lotus" is part of Hunhow.

And the Sentients had trouble with what? "Lotus" didnt want to talk cause Hunhow was just stealing info from her. It seems like she has no control over it. 

Which is a story element that they can cover using her character. They have set the stage for events like her fighting for her freedom and control of herself while trying to screw over hunhow for the Tenno. It would fit perfectly into a beautiful redemption story that actually already ties in with her story. As opposed to

On 3/18/2016 at 8:35 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

So all we need to know is capture her and poke around to figure out the transmission that always seems to be on an open channel. We'll use Banshee, she knows about communication. Oh and Nyx to mind control "Lotus"

^This

Your sacrificing a potential story of "personal triumph to help the people she cares about" over "Tenno going back in time to mistreat and kill a person who was basically a slave who found out that she cared for you." Not only is that messed up it goes against the theme of the relationship. Tenno and Lotus share a similar backstory. They escaped their respective masters through each other and work together to fight against people like them.

Again, they had an entire war to poke around with Sentients they defeated and couldn't do it. And what do you mean Knows communication? 

Banshee abilities deal with sonics. She doesn't track communications, she tracks via sonar; which won't really help over a communication line. Nyx is going to have the problem of finding Lotus to mind control her since Lotus rarely appears in person. Aside from that, She is also a sentient who adapts to abilities so trying to maintain a mind control for any amount of time for any sort of information is problematic.

On 3/18/2016 at 8:35 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

Well, dude, this is what happened in the current storyline so.... what's the issue if it happens again?

And the Corpus call them the betrayer cause of what "Lotus" had us doing. Plus the tenno left. If the tenno stay that could change but you folks worry so much about changing time.

That's not the problem. The problem is that some of the civilians won't like this. To them the Tenno basically committed treason. For good reason mind you but still treason.

They were calling them betrayers because they turned on the Orokin. They had good reasons but from the outside, the Tenno basically committed to all the people who were already well off under under Orokin role. Staying out in the open only gives those people a target for their rage or loss or hated or patriotism which would put the Tenno in the complicated position of having to put down rebellion by the people they we're trying to help.

Hiding away gave the people generations of time to get over this. Cryosleep was like a count to 10 and take deep breaths for the Origin system. Now really the only people who think of Tenno as betrayers are the extortionist cult that attacks defenseless people, making them okay targets for Tenno justice. Lotus helped the Tenno get away with Treason and the negative reactions of the people.

On 3/18/2016 at 8:35 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

And why wouldn't you want to kill the sentients?

Killing Sentients who want to kill Tenno and the people of the origin system is fine. Doing so at the cost of the possibility of erasing the current timeline, retconning the cool Grineer like Steel Meridian/Clem out of existence, and killing the one sentient who is actually on our side; is not fine. It is very much not cool.

On 3/18/2016 at 8:35 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

"Lotus" never tells you the truth. She could be lying to cover something else up.

You realize their are other events beside the Natah and second dream right. She tells you want happens in those, gives you the rundown of the situation, and the situation is normally backed by other sources and character statements. Actually even in second dream how much she says she cares for the Tenno is actually confirmed by Hunhow of all people who believes the only way to get her back on his side is to wipe out the Tenno themselves.

The two major lies she does have under her belt do have valid points. She never mentioned what she was because that isn't who she is anymore or wants to be ever again. It's a secret shame and it is easily offended by it as shown when Teshin called her Natah. If a monster doesn't want to be a monster why treat it like one when it is trying to change for the better? especially when it is in the process of helping you. She's like Paarthurnax from skyrim.

The Second Dream lie is messed up, She didn't tell a crucial piece of  personal information. That is the one thing I think she really messed up on. That said, she kept the Tenno's secret weakness and kept them safe this entire time via a complete blackout of information. Then there is the possibility of how horrible it could have gone, even excluding the stalker.

Plus in a way in mirrors her situation. In her mind set she is trying to be something more then what she was. If this was Margulis' line

Dream... not of what you are, but of what you want to be.

Imagine if Lotus had heard that. This is basically the original Tenno mom saying this. OG SPACE MOM 1.0. That is a saying that would've reached the Lotus on a personal level. What if she just wanted to let the Tenno continue living the dream. Like how a parent lies a about Santa and the child believes in a world a lot more wondrous then it actually is. We tell lies and omit truths for more then just personal gain or to hurt. 

 

TL;DR version

Lotus has flaws, everyone does. She doesn't want WHAT she is to determine WHO she wants to be and just wants to help. Her backstory in a ways mirrors elements of the Tenno's backstory and that is why the combo work. They left their own lives behind with each others help for for something new. There dynamic works both story wise as character wise and going back in time to snuff it out is a cruel pointless betrayal of an ally and a valuable asset.

 

Don't know if I've done this already but thanks for keeping this discussion going. Almost every time I reply it to these type of threads it gets me thinking more and more about the various aspects of the story, like the Tenno/Lotus relation. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by (PS4)Lowk721

[Mak_Gohae]

On 3/8/2016 at 3:26 PM, Littlerift said:

 

Indeed not, but if we kill Lotus then two possibilities emerge: A) The Sentients realise that their plan has failed and simply send another fleet or two to wipe out the Orokin, who had been brought to their knees by the first wave, and B) The Sentients simply send another Sentient with a Lotus-like mission and this time said Sentient doesn't choose to spare the Tenno, which would leave both the Orokin and the Tenno dead.

We kill the "Lotus" at the same time we kill the bad Orokin.

Meaning at the end of the war when the Orokin have won and the Sentients have been defeated.

On 3/8/2016 at 3:32 PM, motorfirebox said:

The only hints about Ordis's memory that I recall are hints that Ordis did it to himself. And as far as I recall, there's been no indication that Lotus had any control over the Tenno's memory loss.

He is a machine.

So he could have done it himself because he was given the order to do so.

On 3/8/2016 at 5:17 PM, 45neo said:

yes but think of it... All other methods of time travelling are 100% irational.

If time travelling occurred it has already happened.

Every method of time traveling are irrational because we dont actually do time travel, all are guesses.

The only one that works is Gravitational time dilation.

On 3/8/2016 at 5:20 PM, 45neo said:

Besides if DE did implement another form of time travel and we do go back in time and kill the lotus then we will have some of the player base where the lotus is dead and some who the lotus is alive. That would screw up the game completely. Also what reason do we have to kill the lotus... let alone change anything in the past?

That happens now with several characters. We got 2 Alad Vs....3 of them! Normal, Infested-controlled, and free from control.

And while back in time we can actually save the real mother of the tenno, margulis. Instead of keeping some crazy chick that wants to keep us as babies.

[BornWithTeeth]

 

28 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

 

And while back in time we can actually save the real mother of the tenno, margulis. Instead of keeping some crazy chick that wants to keep us as babies.

Going by how things tend to work in the Warframe community, you realise that that would last all of about five minutes before y'all decide that Margulis is evil too, and start demanding to kill her after all?

[DakotaStorm]

On 19/03/2016 at 4:16 AM, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

At this point we aren't even talking about other stories. It simple cause and effect. You've destoryed the line of events that led up to that moment IE you've destoryed the moment itself.

Actually some of the character in game would have started as colonist. The syndicates and the relays are made up of people who aren't Corpus or Grineer meaning that they are colonist. Also Baro and his mother.

the Tenno story wise care about them so do a few of their allies. Also I'd and others would like to see how the colonist as they are now. You get rid of them now and you've essentially cheated us out of finally getting to see their stories after all this time.

Yeah, that is how I know they knew that weren't confused about her being Margulis. They are the ones that note that they know Margulis was already dead. And based on their reactions they still don't care that Lotus is a sentient. She's still an ally of the Tenno.

Which is a story element that they can cover using her character. They have set the stage for events like her fighting for her freedom and control of herself while trying to screw over hunhow for the Tenno. It would fit perfectly into a beautiful redemption story that actually already ties in with her story. As opposed to

^This

Your sacrificing a potential story of "personal triumph to help the people she cares about" over "Tenno going back in time to mistreat and kill a person who was basically a slave who found out that she cared for you." Not only is that messed up it goes against the theme of the relationship. Tenno and Lotus share a similar backstory. They escaped their respective masters through each other and work together to fight against people like them.

Again, they had an entire war to poke around with Sentients they defeated and couldn't do it. And what do you mean Knows communication? 

Banshee abilities deal with sonics. She doesn't track communications, she tracks via sonar; which won't really help over a communication line. Nyx is going to have the problem of finding Lotus to mind control her since Lotus rarely appears in person. Aside from that, She is also a sentient who adapts to abilities so trying to maintain a mind control for any amount of time for any sort of information is problematic.

That's not the problem. The problem is that some of the civilians won't like this. To them the Tenno basically committed treason. For good reason mind you but still treason.

They were calling them betrayers because they turned on the Orokin. They had good reasons but from the outside, the Tenno basically committed to all the people who were already well off under under Orokin role. Staying out in the open only gives those people a target for their rage or loss or hated or patriotism which would put the Tenno in the complicated position of having to put down rebellion by the people they we're trying to help.

Hiding away gave the people generations of time to get over this. Cryosleep was like a count to 10 and take deep breaths for the Origin system. Now really the only people who think of Tenno as betrayers are the extortionist cult that attacks defenseless people, making them okay targets for Tenno justice. Lotus helped the Tenno get away with Treason and the negative reactions of the people.

Killing Sentients who want to kill Tenno and the people of the origin system is fine. Doing so at the cost of the possibility of erasing the current timeline, retconning the cool Grineer like Steel Meridian/Clem out of existence, and killing the one sentient who is actually on our side; is not fine. It is very much not cool.

You realize their are other events beside the Natah and second dream right. She tells you want happens in those, gives you the rundown of the situation, and the situation is normally backed by other sources and character statements. Actually even in second dream how much she says she cares for the Tenno is actually confirmed by Hunhow of all people who believes the only way to get her back on his side is to wipe out the Tenno themselves.

The two major lies she does have under her belt do have valid points. She never mentioned what she was because that isn't who she is anymore or wants to be ever again. It's a secret shame and it is easily offended by it as shown when Teshin called her Natah. If a monster doesn't want to be a monster why treat it like one when it is trying to change for the better? especially when it is in the process of helping you. She's like Paarthurnax from skyrim.

The Second Dream lie is messed up, She didn't tell a crucial piece of  personal information. That is the one thing I think she really messed up on. That said, she kept the Tenno's secret weakness and kept them safe this entire time via a complete blackout of information. Then there is the possibility of how horrible it could have gone, even excluding the stalker.

Plus in a way in mirrors her situation. In her mind set she is trying to be something more then what she was. If this was Margulis' line

Dream... not of what you are, but of what you want to be.

Imagine if Lotus had heard that. This is basically the original Tenno mom saying this. OG SPACE MOM 1.0. That is a saying that would've reached the Lotus on a personal level. What if she just wanted to let the Tenno continue living the dream. Like how a parent lies a about Santa and the child believes in a world a lot more wondrous then it actually is. We tell lies and omit truths for more then just personal gain or to hurt. 

 

TL;DR version

Lotus has flaws, everyone does. She doesn't want WHAT she is to determine WHO she wants to be and just wants to help. Her backstory in a ways mirrors elements of the Tenno's backstory and that is why the combo work. They left their own lives behind with each others help for for something new. There dynamic works both story wise as character wise and going back in time to snuff it out is a cruel pointless betrayal of an ally and a valuable asset.

 

Don't know if I've done this already but thanks for keeping this discussion going. Almost every time I reply it to these type of threads it gets me thinking more and more about the various aspects of the story, like the Tenno/Lotus relation. 

Best post in this ridiculous thread. 

Have a cookie my friend. 

[motorfirebox]

On 3/16/2016 at 10:26 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

He is a machine.

So he could have done it himself because he was given the order to do so.

Dude, seriously?

[Littlerift]

6 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

We kill the "Lotus" at the same time we kill the bad Orokin.

Meaning at the end of the war when the Orokin have won and the Sentients have been defeated.

He is a machine.

So he could have done it himself because he was given the order to do so.

Every method of time traveling are irrational because we dont actually do time travel, all are guesses.

The only one that works is Gravitational time dilation.

That happens now with several characters. We got 2 Alad Vs....3 of them! Normal, Infested-controlled, and free from control.

And while back in time we can actually save the real mother of the tenno, margulis. Instead of keeping some crazy chick that wants to keep us as babies.

 

But we didn't defeat the Sentients; they feigned defeat to set up Natah's plan. 

 

And I'm not entirely convinced that Margulis ever existed. It seems more than possible to me that Margulis was always Kaleen, who was potentially always Natah. Either way, it's clear that Margulis and Lotus are far more similar than they are different, and so calling one a 'real mother' and the other a 'crazy chick who wants to keep us as babies' is incredibly strange, and rather difficult to justify without already hating Lotus.

[Mak_Gohae]

On 3/9/2016 at 8:04 PM, 45neo said:

Yeah plus she like... SAVED OUR LIVES MORE THAN ONCE. so I really don't see a reason to kill the lotus. The only and I mean only 2 things that I would timetravel to fix are A. making it so margulis lives and B. killing the sentients while they are playing dead.

She wanted babies so she hid us.

She didnt simply say, "I dont think these people should die."

She hid us then never said who she really was to continue her idea of wanting babies.

On 3/9/2016 at 5:39 PM, Xardis said:

No, you dont get my point, its not you traveling through time, its environment being partly stuck in the past. The point its you dont travel, for reasons I listed. Transferance link would be cut of and you would loose a frame. Its doe to nature of Tenno controling a frame. There is nothing in game suggesting that anything can travel though time backwards.

So you are not traveling through time you are just going to the past..... ok.

I never said that right now in the game we have the ability. I said that can we explore this.

Obviously these are just time pockets stuck in a specific time. But they can study that and develop something.

On 3/9/2016 at 5:52 PM, Littlerift said:

 

You can have a war-winning weapon and still lose the war if you can't hold the line. The Zero-tech Soldiers were the rank and file of the Orokin army, whereas the Tenno were the special forces. Both are necessary, but if you can only have one type of unit in your army you want it to be the basic infantry.

Sorry, but im not going with your personal canon here.

Quote

The fact that something is done often doesn't make it right. Yes, all human empires have carved themselves out of the carcass of an old order; that doesn't make such conquest just.

Just pointing out this is the standard. The situation here is not unique in any way.

 

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And no, the Grineer were actively going around the place killing Warframes. In Vor's Prize the player is spared simply on a whim, as Vor has shifted his plan from destruction of the Tenno to an attempt to control and weaponise them - hence the Ascaris Device, Lotus rescues you from this fate by surging your Warframe, partially negating the Ascaris Device and giving the Operator control once again. 

No, they have always been looking for Warframes to figure out the tech and use it. Just like the Corpus

The story is that Warframes are powerful old tech and everyone wants it. That still the story of "The Sergeant." He has a bunch of frames and sells them to whoever wants to buy them.

Quote

And again, no, the Grineer didn't find any of the Warframes in the Void, they would simply stumble on them throughout the galaxy while they went about terraforming and desecrating anything Orokin they could get their hands on.

I dont know what the opening of the game is now but the last time i played it's pretty clear that Vor has a void key and opens up a portal to the void. Not saying all are in the void but some were found there.

 

[Xardis]

5 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

So you are not traveling through time you are just going to the past..... ok.

I never said that right now in the game we have the ability. I said that can we explore this.

Obviously these are just time pockets stuck in a specific time. But they can study that and develop something.

Yes we can explore the phenomena of freezing time within the void, not the time travel. The application of that tech could even produce a frame who could use it as an ability. The bobble cant be affected from the outside by any means, only from inside. It could be even disputed that Limbo uses just that.

[carnaga]

On 29.2.2016 at 0:44 AM, Mak_Gohae said:

Now that there's timetraveling, can we travel back in time and kill "Lotus"?

Why would you do that???? :(

[BornWithTeeth]

22 minutes ago, carnaga said:

Why would you do that???? :(

Because edgelords don't like the Lotus. Gawd Carnaga, pay attention.

 

 

Or, to be more honest about it:

- The Lotus is a Sentient, and a lot of people will never trust her because of that, no matter what.

- Some peeps have this almost obsession with the idea that the Lotus is secretly screwing us over, is preparing to screw us over, is secretly brainwashing us, is basically the Secretly Evil Video Game Mentor Figure. Video games have kinda relied on that trope for such a while now that it's effectively prepared an entire generation of gamers to go into any situation with the default assumption that mission control is evil and out to get them, which sucks.

- The Lotus is presented not just as mission control but as a mother figure, and I can't help but notice a certain overlap between the two positions of "The Lotus is evil, we need to kill her" and "I hate that the Tenno are secretly so physically young and vulnerable", which comes out somewhere between as "I hate the Lotus for being presented as a mother figure, I would rather be a lone badass who needs no-one."

- The way this typically gets presented in the form of an argument goes like this: "The Lotus is lying to us! She didn't reveal her true nature until she had to, and she kept the secret of our true bodies until it became an issue. What else is she hiding? She's going to betray us, we can't trust her, we need to kill her."

 

 

 

Did I miss anything?

[paragasu]

one of stalker acolyte? XD

[Littlerift]

1 hour ago, Mak_Gohae said:

A) Sorry, but im not going with your personal canon here.

B) Just pointing out this is the standard. The situation here is not unique in any way.

 

C) No, they have always been looking for Warframes to figure out the tech and use it. Just like the Corpus

The story is that Warframes are powerful old tech and everyone wants it. That still the story of "The Sergeant." He has a bunch of frames and sells them to whoever wants to buy them.

D) I dont know what the opening of the game is now but the last time i played it's pretty clear that Vor has a void key and opens up a portal to the void. Not saying all are in the void but some were found there.

 

God, you're still going back through this thread and quoting old posts, aren't you?

 

Right, lets do this:

 

A) It's not my personal canon, it's a necessary fact of the lore. You can't win a war with special forces, and if the Zero-Tech Soldiers weren't useful the Orokin wouldn't have used them.

B) Irrelevent.

C) I never denied this, I simply stated that the Tenno wasn't saved by the benevolence of the Grineer.

D) Yeah, I got that bit wrong. Still irrelevant, though.

 

Nothing you've said has provided even a single, faint glimmer or a reason as to why Lotus's death would be good for the Warframe universe, and you haven't at all addressed the fact that without Lotus the Sentients inevitably gain control of the Origin system, either sooner or later.

[Kaisty]

1 hour ago, Littlerift said:

 

God, you're still going back through this thread and quoting old posts, aren't you?

 

Right, lets do this:

 

A) It's not my personal canon, it's a necessary fact of the lore. You can't win a war with special forces, and if the Zero-Tech Soldiers weren't useful the Orokin wouldn't have used them.

B) Irrelevent.

C) I never denied this, I simply stated that the Tenno wasn't saved by the benevolence of the Grineer.

D) Yeah, I got that bit wrong. Still irrelevant, though.

 

Nothing you've said has provided even a single, faint glimmer or a reason as to why Lotus's death would be good for the Warframe universe, and you haven't at all addressed the fact that without Lotus the Sentients inevitably gain control of the Origin system, either sooner or later.

 Depends on the Faction / universe you are dealing with and the people in power. If the faction is built up around group unity and willing to complete the mission no matter who dies, then you are correct. But if they are built up around the strongest/smartest running it with other groups who hate each other only working together because of the leader, then you would be wrong. Kill the leader and the rest fall back "Kill them all and save yourselves" mode. It ends the previous war and creates a new war/turmoil among the faction that was once united.

E.G. The Empire in Star Wars (before it was declared non canon) in the expanded universe turned from a huge faction into bands of raiders fighting among themselves for power over the Empire for quite some time.  Likewise, Whammer 40K Orks and their WAAAAH!!! is when one Ork forces many different factions together to fight under their banner, but if they die then it all goes to crap.

As for the whole "without Lotus, the Sentients win" you do forget that if Natah was up and killed off before she could even start her mission and the Tenno actually completed theirs correctly, there would be no Sentients to worry about.

Also, unless the Sentients can overcome the infested, they would have one heck of a fight on their hands because the Infested adapts to organic and inorganic matter. For all we know, the main reason why the Sentients don't show up yet in the Sol system is because they don't have a way to wipe out the infested thoroughly and without getting infected themselves.

Now that I think about it, not only would I go back and shank Natah, but I would unleash the infested on the universe just to see if the Sentients could handle taking on an enemy that has had a long time to evolve and adapt. For all we know, by the time they would have actually shown up in the sol system, almost every infested would have the void Radiation ability that the Operators have after they have been assimilated into the Infested hive mind. Plus, if you are going to change history, why leave it nice and neat when a giant mess is so much more fun!

[BornWithTeeth]

5 minutes ago, Kaisty said:

 Depends on the Faction / universe you are dealing with and the people in power. If the faction is built up around group unity and willing to complete the mission no matter who dies, then you are correct. But if they are built up around the strongest/smartest running it with other groups who hate each other only working together because of the leader, then you would be wrong. Kill the leader and the rest fall back "Kill them all and save yourselves" mode. It ends the previous war and creates a new war/turmoil among the faction that was once united.

E.G. The Empire in Star Wars (before it was declared non canon) in the expanded universe turned from a huge faction into bands of raiders fighting among themselves for power over the Empire for quite some time.  Likewise, Whammer 40K Orks and their WAAAAH!!! is when one Ork forces many different factions together to fight under their banner, but if they die then it all goes to crap.

As for the whole "without Lotus, the Sentients win" you do forget that if Natah was up and killed off before she could even start her mission and the Tenno actually completed theirs correctly, there would be no Sentients to worry about.

Also, unless the Sentients can overcome the infested, they would have one heck of a fight on their hands because the Infested adapts to organic and inorganic matter. For all we know, the main reason why the Sentients don't show up yet in the Sol system is because they don't have a way to wipe out the infested thoroughly and without getting infected themselves.

Now that I think about it, not only would I go back and shank Natah, but I would unleash the infested on the universe just to see if the Sentients could handle taking on an enemy that has had a long time to evolve and adapt. For all we know, by the time they would have actually shown up in the sol system, almost every infested would have the void Radiation ability that the Operators have after they have been assimilated into the Infested hive mind. Plus, if you are going to change history, why leave it nice and neat when a giant mess is so much more fun!