Is there Counter-Play to Shock Eximus?

[Venomzz0]

32 minutes ago, Sormatte said:

4 minutes ago, Somedude1000 said:

But a channeled redeemer shot means limiting yourself to only a single melee weapon just to fight this particular enemy, I thought the fun of melee 2.0 was that you can take any melee weapon and use it without worrying about being able to counter enemies, at least up until regular level missions?

I seem to recall that for this very cheapness was the reason the magnetic effect was removed from these guys,as well as ancients.

Except Ancient Disruptors still have the drain energy on hit, and the innate grappling hook that can still proc puncture and deals damage, so it still removes energy, as well as the buff to every infested around it to do the same. Also, sorry for wierd quoting, cant seem to figure out how to fix it.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Venomzz0

[ScorpDK]

Welcome to Eximus units. While there are some that have acceptable and balanced (to a degree) effects, you also got Shock and Venomous, whom are terrible additions that only exist to frustrate since these guys can ruin your day by merely being there. They don't need to attack you, they don't even need to know you're there. They will simply affect you passively and BAM, enjoy the 8 second toxic proc or complete loss of all your energy and shield, and potentially wasting an entire cache of energy orbs if you have a Carrier Sentinel.

[Somedude1000]

1 minute ago, Venomzz0 said:

 

Correct, they do have energy drain, but not energy disruption, they cna reduce your energy, but not take all of it away

[Nitresco]

1 minute ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

top tips for killing Shock Eximus Enemies.

- prioritize them.

Between Combas/Scrambii, Nullifiers, Shock Eximii, and Sapping Ospreys, I'm not sure "prioritize them" is very sound advise against any Corpus unit.

 

3 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

- git gud.

Hilarious/original.

[Homer87]

I came across this while trying out the spy on the Orokin Moon. It was a nully with this aura. It was terrible. The part that it was at was on the vault where there is a puzzle with the corrupted enemies, that come to life and you have to kill them one by one. It was his turn to come alive and my energy was insta-drained. This is pretty poor design, and it adds a level of cheapness to the enemy type. (Still went in the bubble and shot him in the face btw. I had no energy, no shields, and nothing to lose) I thought this magnetic proc was intentionally removed back in the day? Ancient Disruptors don't do this nearly as much as they used to. So not only is there an enemy that saps my energy just by standing next to me, but now there is an enemy that gives off magnetic procs like it's nothing. Both this and the parasitic eximus units should be redesigned into something better than what they are currently.

For the shock eximus, just give a damage resistance buff to their allies. It could be shock or any element that uses shock in it (magnetic, radiation, or corrosive). Same for the parasitic eximus units, but just poison damage (viral, gas, corrosive).

[Venomzz0]

2 minutes ago, Somedude1000 said:

Correct, they do have energy drain, but not energy disruption, they cna reduce your energy, but not take all of it away

They can easily because of the swarming tendencies of the infested, I have been hooked and mauled by many an infested, sometimes while flying through the air they land the sick hookshot mid air on me and theres nothing I could have done, dont forget that lag can make the Ancient do a 180 hook behind him as well.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Venomzz0

[Specific.Zod]

5 minutes ago, Luther848 said:

You do realize that Quick Thinking at max is 240% efficient. That means that even a paltry 300 energy is actually 720 health. With Primed Flow some Frames can get 500 - 800 energy. That is far more effective than regular health and it also recieves the Armor the frame's health gets. Any caster frame with high efficency is dumb not to take.

For a caster, lose energy = dead, and quick thinking = quick lose energy, stagger and dead. If your team has no defensive frame like frost or atlas 3walls, you may consider quickthinking. It's not a mandatory mod, and if the shot damage is over 720 damage or etc for p.flow, it won't active and let you wonder:" what the hell, i got QT why does it is not activated". btw unless you play with trynity, you are not always at max energy. Yes QT is good on caster, but it is very situtional.

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

1 minute ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

 

- prioritize them. you should always focus on ANY Eximus because they all have some annoying ability, whether it be a guaranteed fiery knockdown, unwanted slow-mo or energy drain. can't really miss them when they low orange and are bigger than most other enemies either.

 

the orange glow isn't always easy to spot in brightly lit void levels, especially with smaller enemies (drones/rollers etc), most eximii/ancient effects ( shock/arctic/paracitic/leech/energy leach ) ignore LoS and go through walls and floors.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

leech eximus or shock eximus, its broken

about 50% of all eximus that spawn are usually always just energy leech eximus, totally unfair

drains your energy and that aura drain has like a 30m radius, no matter what, if you are at about 500, its gone fast

Still not as op as a shield disruptor ancient, who takes 100% of your energy in 1 touch randomly

 

Its a bit of a pain in the neck, and unfair

[Cyndocrit]

I can already see a high level sortie mission requiring only melee and spawning almost nothing but these guys. 

[Silvus-Sol]

Look, I'm not opposed to the Shock Eximi getting reworked, but they should still be dangerous. And as far as them being impossible for melee only players, that's the players choice to use one specific weapon that has very obvious disadvantages. Melee has to get close, that is the risk and the tradeoff. It's the same thing as having to get inside a Nulli bubble or getting within the range of a Venomus aura to kill the target.

As for the people are saying that Shock Eximi are OP compared to other Eximi,  they are absolutely right. Some of the other Eximi could really use a buff. Arsons could light the player on fire similar to the way the overloading reactors do in the new sabotages. Blitz need something else other than just the ground-pound, perhaps some variant of Rhinos charge that can knock down a single player. The other ones are generally okay in my opinion.

I still stand by my first comments though, I'm glad that DE is trying to implement actually threatening enemies that aren't just bullet sponges that do insane damage. They might overdo it a bit at the start, but it is a step in the right direction.

 

50 minutes ago, Nitresco said:

The unit should simply function as a mobile arc trap, with a gradual energy drain attached to the damage it deals. DE could also fix them by making magnetic procs less potent; massive shield reduction, complete energy drain, and temporary inability to cast abilities is way over the top for a single proc.

I actually really like the "mobile arc trap" idea. Dropping the aura's mag proc effectiveness by half would work too, but I think your first idea was better.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2016 by Silvus-Sol

[Lesserli]

1 hour ago, Katinka said:

I beginning to tire of people using the "prioritize them" argument.  It's been used for pretty much every new Corpus unit.  I'm but one person.  How am I supposed to prioritize Nullifiers, Scrambas, Sapping Ospreys, Bursas and Shock Eximus all at once?  Individually they are all okay but as soon as two or three from that list come at you it's a different story as each needs to be dealt with quickly and some of them get quite tough at high levels.

I thought I remembered reading it as an intentional change!  Guess might not have been going crazy.

I also thought they removed the proc intentionally. Even at this time it was neccessary. You can live with every proc but magnetic is just too harsh. I'm sure it was only added for the enemies because...who in Warframe really uses magnetic damage? No enemy uses energy (it would be actually a bit interesting when magnetic procs stop enemies from using abilities and auras!) and not even Corpus units care about the shield reduction. Use bleed or poison and forget about the shield. Either the shield isn't worth a mention or the shield is so high you should have chosen Mag (which also does magnetic damage).

I don't know why DE want to (re-)add more and more annoying mechanics and enemies until the factions become unnerving. It isn't a "challenge" to deal with constant loss of the complete energy pool. Nullifier are a better challenge because they are safe from abilities. Just kill them and you can continue casting. Why can't do a magnetic proc just deactivate your abilities for a few seconds?

[KIREEK]

Same way you defend against sentients, or bursas, or enemies that deliver poison procs.

You stay away from them and fight from afar, once you see the aura just make sure they don't get to close, it's the same thing with the toxic eximus ancients, when they pop up, you just fight at a distance where the proc doesn't affect you.

Just adapt your gameplay and you will be fine, if you don't adapt or improve, then all it's left is to complain on the forums.

The units and the procs are fine.

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

[Endorphinz]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

Your efficiency should always be 175% or 160% minimum. And flow and primed flow are objectively useless trash outside of being battery carrier in Law of Retribution. 

Losing 100% of energy shouldn't be an issue. With zenurik especially. 

Forcing players onto fleeting expertise is not indicative of good game design. The whole point of the mod system is to choose the builds you like best. Lower power efficiency gives higher rewards in terms of power strength and duration; forcing players into one niche build is not only dumb, but it's the opposite of what the developers are aiming for.

Forcing players into Zenurik as well, when there are 5 entire schools, is also extremely restrictive.

There's a reason why players absolutely hated these and begged DE to fix them a while back, so I can't be sure why they decided to suddenly bring back such a universally reviled enemy. Imagine if they did the same thing to the broken light traps.

[Endorphinz]

12 minutes ago, KIREEKPSO said:

Same way you defend against sentients, or bursas, or enemies that deliver poison procs.

You stay away from them and fight from afar, once you see the aura just make sure they don't get to close, it's the same thing with the toxic eximus ancients, when they pop up, you just fight at a distance where the proc doesn't affect you.

Just adapt your gameplay and you will be fine, if you don't adapt or improve, then all it's left is to complain on the forums.

The units and the procs are fine.

Feedback =/= complaining. Certain things ruin an otherwise enjoyable playing experience, and if the majority of the players want it adjusted, then that's what needs to happen. Obviously some things can be adjusted to, and some things are just a pain.

[Drasiel]

2 minutes ago, Endorphinz said:

Forcing players onto fleeting expertise is not indicative of good game design. The whole point of the mod system is to choose the builds you like best. Lower power efficiency gives higher rewards in terms of power strength and duration; forcing players into one niche build is not only dumb, but it's the opposite of what the developers are aiming for.

Forcing players into Zenurik as well, when there are 5 entire schools, is also extremely restrictive.

There's a reason why players absolutely hated these and begged DE to fix them a while back, so I can't be sure why they decided to suddenly bring back such a universally reviled enemy. Imagine if they did the same thing to the broken light traps.

or Nervos :D http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Nervos

[Roving_Neophyte]

15 minutes ago, KIREEKPSO said:

Same way you defend against sentients, or bursas, or enemies that deliver poison procs.

You stay away from them and fight from afar, once you see the aura just make sure they don't get to close, it's the same thing with the toxic eximus ancients, when they pop up, you just fight at a distance where the proc doesn't affect you.

Just adapt your gameplay and you will be fine, if you don't adapt or improve, then all it's left is to complain on the forums.

The units and the procs are fine.

A very nice tactic. Unless you're playing as Valkyr. Or Saryn. Or... well, any melee-focused warframe.

I mostly use ranged weapons and very rarely go into melee, but i still can understand the pain of melee players, this will ruin their gameplay entirely. You should be able to understand that too.

[Guardian_Legion]

they were nerfed like a year ago and just had their nerf taken away, so they are back to being gamebreaking. An easy solution is making them like fire eximi where they release a wall where you roll through it or block the way to avoid the magnetic proc the way fire walls won't knock you down if you do so.  also the modular corpus already have an aura that disable powers we don't need two units doing the same thing except one has no true counterplay for any melee/shotgun/power user

Edited March 6, 2016 by Legionofone

[Generalsherman]

Why on earth would they bring this back? Melee vs the corpus was already a nightmare thanks to nuliffers stripping defenses, sapping ospreys killing anything without those powers, moa shock waves, shield drones that are a problem to hit, and now we have the bursas that require positioning in order to damage. 

When it comes to melee the Grineer and Infested have their threats that force you to focus them down or flee through either defensive powers (Healer) or extreme damage potential (Scorch, bombard, your basic charger) but that fits with the rest of the army.

The defensive strength of the Ancient Healer works because the infested are largely melee and can't shoot you to crap so they can get away with the serious defense boost, the scorch can nuke a frame down fast but they have a limited range and a distinct sound that can give a player time to jump over or around them rewarding mobility, the bombard doesn't do much damage but has homing attacks that can knock you down from range, a parasitic charger or runner slowly drains energy overtime so you get a fair chance to notice it and decide if you view the energy loss acceptable for however long you need to kill it PLUS if you figure out it's not worth it you get that chance to run away and save your energy.

Look at what the corpus have...

The shield drone is a lighter defensive buff than the healer but air attacks are unreliable and they're far more common and faster than the ancients on a army with strong range capabilities, attacking a Scorch from the back is recommend but for the bursas it's REQUIRED, Shockwave Moas are another common enemy type and have a AOE knockdown (Plus they have the anti moa with more knockdown), and now the shock exi drain energy instantly in the area with no room for mistakes

When you compare the "priority targets" of each army the Corpus either have a side-grade (Shield drone) or direct upgrade (Shock Eximus) in their forces while still maintaining good mobility and ranged attacks. If this was an RTS I'd have to wonder why (for the love of god) do the Corpus would need all these superior units?

 

[Silvus-Sol]

15 minutes ago, Icy_Ymir said:

A very nice tactic. Unless you're playing as Valkyr. Or Saryn. Or... well, any melee-focused warframe.

I mostly use ranged weapons and very rarely go into melee, but i still can understand the pain of melee players, this will ruin their gameplay entirely. You should be able to understand that too.

I don't agree with this kind of thinking. Your melee weapon isn't glued to your hands (well, Valkyr's kind of is but you can still turn it off). Switch to your primary, shoot the Eximus, then continue playing normally. Yeah, 10 seconds of pure hell right there. If you're too stubborn to switch weapons for a very brief period to deal with a high threat enemy then you will just have to try to swoop in and kill them fast (kind of like you have to do with another ability disrupting enemy) and risk eating the proc.

I know, I know "We should be able to play how we want". You still can, but if you do want to play melee only then you have to accept the risks that come with choosing a playstyle that has definite disadvantages to counter it's strengths. Facing a Shock Eximus is now one of those risks, and will likely remain so even if/when they get reworked.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Silvus-Sol

[Darkmoone1]

It's simply too much. At the most shock should simply remove your shields, not drain your energy. I thought that was what the magnetic ability was for...

[Guardian_Legion]

22 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

or Nervos :D http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Nervos

Quote

 

NEVER EVER AGAIN.

[Alphafox]

Wait a sec... people are actually defending such crappy design? 

Wow.. just wow..

[Vyrn]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

no, that warned the Player "there's one somewhere on the map". with a couple seconds to figure out where it is relative to you, despite not being able to see it.

and later in Missions, warned them of nothing at all because all you saw was a rainbow ring under your feet because 20% Eximus is a lot of Auras.

Situational awareness might just me by strong suit, then, since I can't say I ever had this issue. I'd bump into one occasionally, but I can't say I had that much of a problem. Both in solo and in groups, this seriously never happened. If I see an aura around me as I move forward, I look behind me. If I see nothing, I back up or turn around. If I see a Shock, I shoot them and move away. If I can do it, anyone can. Not letting myself get surrounded? Good location? Luck? Probably luck, honestly, but who knows? I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.

Regarding aura visual stacking: Their distinct colors help quite a lot, but they could use some more visible tells too. Thinning enemy numbers, not getting surrounded, using tools at our disposal (including our significant mobility advantage and verticality potential), and keeping an eye on the nearby enemies can prevent this issue. The only major problem I've ever had with Shocks was in a Void Defense mission when they poured in from everywhere (especially at high levels) but, even then, multiple Arson's all launching fire walls simultaneously proved a more significant problem.

 

1 hour ago, Stardrinker said:

And if you play melee? Too bad? If you play melee with a frame that uses Quick Thinking? Too bad x 2?

This is a stupid change that forces players into certain builds even more. I have no clue how DE could possibly think this was a good idea.

Going melee only is good and fun, sure, but it isn't the game's fault if you do not use every tool at your disposal. It isn't pushing certain builds at all--in fact, it's encouraging diversity and thinking instead of mindlessly rushing in with the same brute force methods. Bring a hard hitting weapon to burn down the Shocks when you see them, or find some other way to adapt. That is my recommendation.

 

1 hour ago, AdunSaveMe said:

You mean, kill that enemy that can drain your energy within a minuscule window of time, through walls and across rooms? Kill an enemy that you will often not be able to see, which drains your energy before you can get away (in a vague direction because it could be from multiple directions if you have no direct vision), with an aura that's hidden underneath all the other aura effects from other eximi? Yeah, just find it and kill it. From range too, right? What if you're melee?

Except that is rarely the case. That's a shocking defense of poor design. The shock eximus has always been bad, and the justifications people try to put out for it being a terrible, anti-skill unit are just as awful. It is a crap unit, it is poorly and lazily designed and in its current state it will never EVER be a good addition to a game that even dreams of being skill-based.

Please, leave hyperbole at the door. You grievously exaggerate the problem. They aren't map wide instant death machines like everyone acts like they are. They are annyoing for sure, but they aren't the end of the world. They really aren't a major problem (in most situations, that is) if you go in prepared. Regarding melee, refer to above. Also, for all the talk of wanting skill, why is it such a bad thing to have an enemy unit that requires special attention? It definitely could use some work, but I don't understand the vehemence.  Furthermore, let me just mention that, given the current potential of our frames and abilities, there really are no threats if you go in prepared. PvE holds nothing threatening, and anything remotely dangerous is decried and hated the moment it is added (or re-added, in this case). We either need something that can actually do something to us, or we need to be toned down. People would be even angry with the latter option, so here is what we get for now.

Also also, dat painful "shocking" pun. Pls.

some clarification

Let me say this since I did not mention it explicitly earlier. I do not believe they are perfect enemies, and I do not believe they are a good solution. However, they are good in that they promote more play than merely charging in swords drawn and guns blazing. That is why I prefer having them--they are a partial step in the right direction, as are Nullifiers. They can be defeated, and they don't have to be a major problem of you adjust and know how to deal with them. As I did say earlier, I am certainly for bumping up the range of the visual aura (which also means I am for INCREASING GENERAL VISIBILITY AND WARNINGS, although I guess I should have made that more clear) so it seems less sudden or unavoidable. Heck, suggesting that it be changed to a telegraphed or avoidable attack is another solution (I think I saw mention of something like those while skimming), but merely saying "it's trash, ruins the player experience, worst thing ever, blah" solves nothing and does not promote growth.

Typing long stuff on mobile is always so awkward and annoying. I'll try to clean stuff up if I can when I get to my computer. Until then, cheers.

ALSO, could we please get the preview button back? First time posting on new forums with mobile, so I'm expecting a disaster.