Tonkor: Let's fix easy mode

[TheBrsrkr]

2 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

I think PVP has its own team working on it that operates at its own pace? Idk how else to explain the disparity.

PVP has no power or weapon  mods to balance for, and will apply nothing but base damage to enemies, who are other players with the same problems. Even the abilities work differently in there.  PvE however has to account for every enemy and every frame in every setup at the same time. It's much easier to build a frame around just the frame and the weapon around just the weapon than to build the frame around its maximized and minimized potential with nothing in between. 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

3 hours ago, alfaomega04 said:

truth.

feel you. the discrepancy is staggering really.

[Vox_Preliator]

42 minutes ago, WARLOCKE said:

Im actually not quite sure why the Tonkor has been allowed to continue in the fashion it has. Other less deserving weapons have gotten nerfed FAR quicker. But going on 1 year + and this toxic tumor is allowed to run free. 

Let me nip this in the bud:

"That obviously means it's working as intended."

No.  No it does not.  "Not changed" does not imply "working as intended" or "is balanced."  Nor does imply that, if the developers believe this to be true, that the developers are inherently correct.  Their minds can be changed, hence why we're resorting to logic and reasoning rather then ephemeral, immeasurable terms.

Please don't make a fool of yourself by trying to resort to this "argument."

[Chipputer]

14 hours ago, cx-dave said:

Yeah, sure :) And next time if I post proof of having the most pick ups and getting lots of Focus points, you'll have another excuse why a screen shot isn't valid.

Yes, quite frankly, I will.

If you think a static shot is valid proof of anything then you're sorely mistaken and only worth laughing at. How do we know you didn't tell people to stand still and let you get more drops? Sure, it's unreasonable to assume so, but it's the only logical way to address the situation. Video proof, direct pictures of damage being dealt (as in the yellow crit numbers)... these are valid.

"But I got top damage," is not.

[WARLOCKE]

7 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Let me nip this in the bud:

"That obviously means it's working as intended."

No.  No it does not.  "Not changed" does not imply "working as intended" or "is balanced."  Nor does imply that, if the developers believe this to be true, that the developers are inherently correct.  Their minds can be changed, hence why we're resorting to logic and reasoning rather then ephemeral, immeasurable terms.

Please don't make a fool of yourself by trying to resort to this "argument."

Id tell you to not be a moron, but I would be to late. In the future, you should read the thread you are posting on before commenting. Further more, you should make sure you UNDERSTAND the post before replying. That is all.

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by WARLOCKE

[TheLexiConArtist]

28 minutes ago, WARLOCKE said:

Id tell you to not be a moron, but I would be to late. In the future, you should read the thread you are posting on before commenting. Further more, you should make sure you UNDERSTAND the post before replying. That is all.

dudebro he was in agreement with you

It was just preempting the other side's most predictable reaction (and the one that's featured many times before in the past 50 pages) to what you said about it having been over a year without being fixed - claiming that validates the current statistics, which it does not.

[Currilicious]

13 hours ago, WARLOCKE said:

Ok lets go about this in another way. I want you to admit the following, because this is what im getting from your posts. Please do not nerf the Tonkor. I dont like hard games and the Tonkor is the only thing keeping this game easy for me. If you admit this, ill stop posting on this thread.

I like challenges when I have time to play or when I feel like it.

I like to quickly get things done when I don't got time.

On some days I want it easy.

I ain't a machine. So when you want definite, I can't do definite.

[Chipputer]

41 minutes ago, Currilicious said:

when I don't got time.

Doesn't have time

Is playing a video game

[Vox_Preliator]

1 hour ago, WARLOCKE said:

Id tell you to not be a moron, but I would be to late. In the future, you should read the thread you are posting on before commenting. Further more, you should make sure you UNDERSTAND the post before replying. That is all.

 

What?  Did I not make the quotation marks big enough or something?  I was mocking whoever might try to twist the fact that it hasn't been changed yet to imply that it shouldn't be changed ever, instead of waiting for the inevitable post full of fallacies and ignorance.

[WARLOCKE]

1 hour ago, Vox_Preliator said:

What?  Did I not make the quotation marks big enough or something?  I was mocking whoever might try to twist the fact that it hasn't been changed yet to imply that it shouldn't be changed ever, instead of waiting for the inevitable post full of fallacies and ignorance.

I guess you didnt. Sign me up for the crutch brigade. I am ashamed. :( Many apologies.

<<<<------ Moron.

Edited May 20, 2016 by WARLOCKE

[WARLOCKE]

2 hours ago, Currilicious said:

I like challenges when I have time to play or when I feel like it.

I like to quickly get things done when I don't got time.

On some days I want it easy.

I ain't a machine. So when you want definite, I can't do definite.

Oh, so you want the choice to make the game easy. Well, I guess the devs could put in a an easy button. However, the Tonkor allows you to chose EASY when playing with others who may not want that setting. And no, making ques just for people who want to play with broken arse weapons is not easier than solving the problem as a whole. Youll just have to petition for an actual easy mode. Until then I suggest using every planet in the starchart for an easy mode, with or without the tonkor.

Edited May 20, 2016 by WARLOCKE

[Chipputer]

35 minutes ago, WARLOCKE said:

I guess the devs could put in a an easy button.

They already did. It's called the star chart. Especially the earlier portions.

[WARLOCKE]

1 minute ago, Chipputer said:

They already did. It's called the star chart. Especially the earlier portions.

To be fair, a new player doesnt find the star chart very easy. And can find it down right challenging if lack the mods. But ole Currly is not a beginner. So for him, yes, 100% agree.

[cx-dave]

8 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Yes, quite frankly, I will.

If you think a static shot is valid proof of anything then you're sorely mistaken and only worth laughing at. How do we know you didn't tell people to stand still and let you get more drops? Sure, it's unreasonable to assume so, but it's the only logical way to address the situation. Video proof, direct pictures of damage being dealt (as in the yellow crit numbers)... these are valid.

"But I got top damage," is not.

Of course you would, after digging that hole for yourself. Your only resort is to claim that I'm lying apparently. Otherwise, my representation of events is accurate and therefore the Tonkor isn't over powered in the current Warframe environment.

If I wanted to fake stuff I could do it both with video and direct pictures of damage. There goes your idea proof. Also, considered that it would be pointless as DE has logs of my matches. They know exactly what's up and the how or not of any potential Tonkor abused.

BTW, just between you and me. Read carefully again what you wrote. I have screen shots of every time I ranked up Vauban P yesterday with 2-3 different random players in public games. You really think you can tell any of those players to stand still and not pick stuff up? LMAO

...and for your entertainment: Nikana Prime red crit (this isn't a fake):

Take that to your Tonkor grave lol.

[Chipputer]

3 minutes ago, cx-dave said:

Of course you would, after digging that hole for yourself. Your only resort is to claim that I'm lying apparently.

Still never said that you were lying. You can keep saying I did but that won't make it true.

[WARLOCKE]

22 minutes ago, cx-dave said:

Of course you would, after digging that hole for yourself. Your only resort is to claim that I'm lying apparently. Otherwise, my representation of events is accurate and therefore the Tonkor isn't over powered in the current Warframe environment.

If I wanted to fake stuff I could do it both with video and direct pictures of damage. There goes your idea proof. Also, considered that it would be pointless as DE has logs of my matches. They know exactly what's up and the how or not of any potential Tonkor abused.

BTW, just between you and me. Read carefully again what you wrote. I have screen shots of every time I ranked up Vauban P yesterday with 2-3 different random players in public games. You really think you can tell any of those players to stand still and not pick stuff up? LMAO

...and for your entertainment: Nikana Prime red crit (this isn't a fake):

Take that to your Tonkor grave lol.

High melee damage is quite acceptable due to the following.

MOSTLY single or low target amount damage. High risk ( destroyed with shadow step, which needs a nerf alongside the tonky) and takes time to ramp up, alot of time.

Do not make the mistake of comparing melee red crits to easy mode tonkor, it wont end well.

[Magneu]

2 hours ago, cx-dave said:

Of course you would, after digging that hole for yourself. Your only resort is to claim that I'm lying apparently. Otherwise, my representation of events is accurate and therefore the Tonkor isn't over powered in the current Warframe environment.

If I wanted to fake stuff I could do it both with video and direct pictures of damage. There goes your idea proof. Also, considered that it would be pointless as DE has logs of my matches. They know exactly what's up and the how or not of any potential Tonkor abused.

BTW, just between you and me. Read carefully again what you wrote. I have screen shots of every time I ranked up Vauban P yesterday with 2-3 different random players in public games. You really think you can tell any of those players to stand still and not pick stuff up? LMAO

...and for your entertainment: Nikana Prime red crit (this isn't a fake):

Take that to your Tonkor grave lol.

Yeeeaaah Savage Silence (I bet) Banshee, Sonar (possibly Resonance), Nikana Prime, large Blood Rush multiplier, Shadow Step cheesing, lowest armor Grineer enemy (on what looks like Apollodarus)...

...and on the other hand, we have the Tonkor, which can click once and do a quarter of that damage in an AOE, twice every two-three seconds, with no other prerequisite. If you ran a Resonance Banshee, you'd probably see quintuple that Nikana Prime hit in an AOE. Run a Nova, and double your DPS. Run a Chroma, and get almost five times the DPS.

Yep. Absolutely no bias here, folks. Did you already forget my Rubico and Tonkor comparison? You know, the one that was unbiased and based on consistent tests?

 

Please stop with the "examples" of why Tonkor "isn't OP.". You're just embarrassing yourself.

[cx-dave]

1 hour ago, Magneu said:

eeeaaah Savage Silence (I bet) Banshee, Sonar (possibly Resonance), Nikana Prime, large Blood Rush multiplier, Shadow Step cheesing, lowest armor Grineer enemy (on what looks like Apollodarus)...

That was a Sortie. Mathematically you can't even get that damage on low level enemies. Keep pushing that the Tonkor ruins games. In reality it won't matter to the other players how anyone kills stuff. If I come into a game where someone gets upset over the Tonkor, they're going to be just as upset if I kill everything by other means.

Please continue speaking about stuff you've never experienced. It's quite entertaining :)

[Magneu]

36 minutes ago, cx-dave said:

That was a Sortie. Mathematically you can't even get that damage on low level enemies. Keep pushing that the Tonkor ruins games. In reality it won't matter to the other players how anyone kills stuff. If I come into a game where someone gets upset over the Tonkor, they're going to be just as upset if I kill everything by other means.

Please continue speaking about stuff you've never experienced. It's quite entertaining :)

You just completely ignored my entire post. I can already tell this new exchange is going to be so enlightening and different from all the other ones before that we've had, where you attempt to tangent and red herring to avoid the actual subject and arguments.

36 minutes ago, cx-dave said:

Mathematically you can't even get that damage on low level enemies.

Lol what?

[cx-dave]

15 minutes ago, Magneu said:

 

Lol what?

I'll try to keep it simple for you. When an enemy has let's say 500 health, you'll never see a 2 million plus damage. 

 

53 minutes ago, cx-dave said:

In reality it won't matter to the other players how anyone kills stuff. If I come into a game where someone gets upset over the Tonkor, they're going to be just as upset if I kill everything by other means.

Go ahead and deny the above. For the great majority of complainers, that's the real reason they want a Tonkor nerf. 

[WARLOCKE]

2 hours ago, cx-dave said:

I'll try to keep it simple for you. When an enemy has let's say 500 health, you'll never see a 2 million plus damage. 

 

Go ahead and deny the above. For the great majority of complainers, that's the real reason they want a Tonkor nerf. 

No, we want a nerf for many reasons. First and foremost, for me, is to get you off of training wheels. Regardless of personal intent. I find it amusing that you completely ignore anything anyone has said to you that would require you to actually think about what you type. Not only is the tonkor to powerful and induces a lack of skilled gameplay and pure crutchery but it also impacts others. You wont be killing anything and everything with a braton prime, will you. Thus others wont complain. And yes, AoE in general needs a savage nerf. The tonkor is just the most broken.

[cx-dave]

2 hours ago, WARLOCKE said:

No, we want a nerf for many reasons. First and foremost, for me, is to get you off of training wheels. Regardless of personal intent. I find it amusing that you completely ignore anything anyone has said to you that would require you to actually think about what you type. Not only is the tonkor to powerful and induces a lack of skilled gameplay and pure crutchery but it also impacts others. You wont be killing anything and everything with a braton prime, will you. Thus others wont complain. And yes, AoE in general needs a savage nerf. The tonkor is just the most broken.

Already played that game. I've shown stuff that's many times stronger than a Tonkor. Keep up the good work lol :)

[TheLexiConArtist]

20 minutes ago, cx-dave said:

Already played that game. I've shown stuff that's many times stronger than a Tonkor. Keep up the good work lol :)

^{[citation needed]}

 

But really now, if you're going to provide nonsensical screenshots where you're layering on more modifiers than there are strata in the Earth's crust, at least do so in a way that makes an impressive result.

Melee in the right circumstances can literally reach an integer overflow (>2,147,483,648), if some screenshots I've seen elsewhere in the forums is to be believed. Why don't you show us that as if it's anything but an unrealistic accumulation of many more factors than just "weapon shot/stabbed target"?

Edited May 20, 2016 by EDYinnit

[Leo17453]

48 minutes ago, cx-dave said:

Already played that game. I've shown stuff that's many times stronger than a Tonkor. Keep up the good work lol :)

Okay I think its time somebody says this to you, even if it already has been:

This thread is solely about the Tonkor. You can't say that it should be left alone because "there are other more powerful things".

Edited May 20, 2016 by Leo17453

[cx-dave]

2 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

But really now, if you're going to provide nonsensical screenshots where you're layering on more modifiers than there are strata in the Earth's crust, at least do so in a way that makes an impressive result.

You complain here about the Tonkor, because it apparently ruins your gaming experience. This is by your own admission. Just for the sake of clarity. If I join a couple of your games and ruin all of them without the Tonkor, you'd be perfectly okay with that? LMAO :)