Melee Idles and grips: DE, We need t talk.

[Evanescent]

Hi there guys. I'll get straight to the point.

The way some melee weapons are held seem very....weird when you take into account their moveset and shape. For the sake of visual variety I'd like the following changed:

Nikanas:
 

Spoiler

 

Decisive Judgement:

Due to it being a two handed stance, the sudden animation jump from seeing it sheathed to doing a two handed strike is just awkward. 

I propose that it be held unsheathed, with the blade held at a slight angle with the tip pointing to the ground, at one side.

Tranquil Cleave:

I'd like to see the blade being held out in one hand with the other holding the sheathe, it seems more natural to it's moveset which always begins from a swing that must have the blade unsheathed and held at a side.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://systemofstrategy.com/images/draw-with-text-72dpi1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/i-would-love-new-sword-stances-and-new-sword-righting-style.266704/&h=848&w=2400&tbnid=PZ8ls_ik9MkVQM:&docid=4OxED1jZ6CsVEM&ei=bwvoVr6aBcu60AST1rnIAQ&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwj-jd_D48LLAhVLHZQKHRNrDhkQMwgjKAYwBg#h=848&w=2400

Blind Justice:

This is fine as it is, because the unsheathing seems natural.

 

 

Claws:

Spoiler

The way we run with the claws bobbing up and down in front our faces is not only comical but also in practice extremely dangerous. 

I suggest the running animation be made similar to valkyr's, with the claws being held at the sides with the arms held back along the body, claws pointing outwards. This would make the running not only more natural but make the weapon feel more menacing as well.

Hammers and Axes:

Spoiler

For stances that begin their swing animations from the side, weapons like the galatine and wat have this animation jump where the blades go from sitting on your shoulders to suddenly swinging from the side (see: cleaving whirlwind). I suggest having the blade drag along the ground, trailing sparks on one hand for these stances and for large blades. This is not a problem for tempo royale and rending crane as these are not that noticeable or start with a vertical cut. 

The same goes for Hammers. The old carry animation for axes and hammers could be re-implemented with a little polish.

Daggers, Dual Daggers:

Spoiler

The blades are held with the blade pointing up yet the swings are most of the time with the dagger held with the blade pointing down. The dual daggers actually do have a transition state when sheathing but suffer from the same issue when being used.  I suggest changing their grips to be blade pointing downwards from the palm.

 

A weapon that addresses all the concerns I have raised here is the rapier, Destreza. It has it's own custom grip, idle, blocking, and its grip is perfectly synced with its moveset. I would like to see that quality upheld throughout the melee classes.

[PrVonTuckIII]

Who cares?

Edit: Ok, that came out wrong. I'm on jet lag atm, so I'm being a bit rude. My apologies. Just gonna copy paste my later response here:

Either way, as I said before, I don't mind if they add this. I simply would prefer other stuff first. Nikana change and dagger change seems pretty inconsequential to me. The other two are fine if it happened.

Edited March 15, 2016 by PrVonTuckIII
apology

[(PSN)CowboyJeff72]

1 minute ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Who cares?

A lot of people actually. You'd be surprised at how many people actually care about the small details of a game that give them that full immersion factor they are looking for. Names of things, image clipping, realistic animations, coloring, lighting, backstory, these are all things that in the grand scheme of just picking up and playing are considered trivial by a lot of players. But there are some that care about them enough that it matters. 

Take my old table top game Warmachine. There is a sight mechanic for front/side/rear arcs that is made easier by painting arc marks onto your miniature bases. I never did this as it took away from the overall look of the miniature to me and broke my immersion. It's the same concept in video games with things like I mentioned above.

[AdunSaveMe]

Animation is hard, meng 

[Oranji]

I like this since I've always hated the way Nikanas are held like I'm Battousai the slasher or some sht.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Oranji

[PrVonTuckIII]

Just now, (PS4)CowboyJeff72 said:

A lot of people actually. You'd be surprised at how many people actually care about the small details of a game that give them that full immersion factor they are looking for. Names of things, image clipping, realistic animations, coloring, lighting, backstory, these are all things that in the grand scheme of just picking up and playing are considered trivial by a lot of players. But there are some that care about them enough that it matters. 

Take my old table top game Warmachine. There is a sight mechanic for front/side/rear arcs that is made easier by painting arc marks onto your miniature bases. I never did this as it took away from the overall look of the miniature to me and broke my immersion. It's the same concept in video games with things like I mentioned above.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be welcome. In fact, the changes suggested for claws or heavy weps would be welcome. I don't really see the point for daggers and nikanas though.

[Iraetus]

9 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Who cares?

A game can't be a proper game without proper animations?

3 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Animation is hard, meng 

Everything is hard in game development. That kind of obstacle shouldn't stop them from making or fixing something.

[Varacal]

they already talked about having 3 different positions for the melee weapons when holstered, they're working on it, it'll come.... Soon™ 

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, Varacal said:

they already talked about having 3 different positions for the melee weapons when holstered, they're working on it, it'll come.... Soon™ 

The way the weapon is held =/= the way the weapon is holstered.

[IceColdHawk]

13 minutes ago, Issence said:

A game can't be a proper game without proper animations?

Everything is hard in game development. That kind of obstacle shouldn't stop them from making or fixing something.

Sure. But i rather wanna get the focus system, damage system and armor system fixed first.

[Iraetus]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

Sure. But i rather wanna get the focus system, damage system and armor system fixed first.

Of course, it all comes down to priorities.

[2old4gamez]

42 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Who cares?

I do.

I'm totally onboard with the OP's suggestion for the changes to the Nikana Stances. 

[Xekrin]

46 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Who cares?

Umm, he does, thats why he made a post about.  Though obviously you don't nor care enough to even provide sufficient counterpoints.  Good post buddy.

 

+1, though this would be a backburner deal imo, it would be interesting if we knew if DE was considering such changes even if they were to take a while to accomplish.

[PrVonTuckIII]

1 minute ago, Xekrin said:

Umm, he does, thats why he made a post about.  Though obviously you don't nor care enough to even provide sufficient counterpoints.  Good post buddy.

 

+1, though this would be a backburner deal imo, it would be interesting if we knew if DE was considering such changes even if they were to take a while to accomplish.

Ouch.  

Either way, as I said before, I don't mind if they add this. I simply would prefer other stuff first. Nikana change and dagger change seems pretty inconsequential to me. The other two are fine if it happened.

[Demonfr34k]

Melee idles, and stances are very bland. Destraza is the only weapon so far that has gotten a decent non bland stance. DE needs to stop making melee stances look like stiff robots.

[Xekrin]

6 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Ouch.  

Either way, as I said before, I don't mind if they add this. I simply would prefer other stuff first. Nikana change and dagger change seems pretty inconsequential to me. The other two are fine if it happened.

I'm sorry! I didn't mean to make that sound so harsh, I didn't notice your second post so I thought you just said 'who cares' and moved on, but you then basically just agreed with what I said after all.  I would also prefer others first, but the point behind nikana and dagger changes, essentially, is realism, despite being a fantasy game, a lot of the animations and weapon styles are based on real life concepts and fighting techniques.  It would be silly to devise a weapon that very closely resembles something that actually exists but use it in a totally illogical way and say "heh space magick" and call it a day.

I'd like to think the developers are trying to mimick realism as best they can in these situations so if they are blatantly failing at a specific fighting style or weapon usage they'd be willing to correct it if evidence provided shows a better way.  Regardless, I'm not a hardball at making things perfect so I'm not going to fight for it tooth and claw, but it'd be great if it happens.

[Vortiene]

I'd like to see these changes too. Especially since I've always wanted to see the blade of the nikana while idle. They should change the walking and idle animation for fist weapons too imo. Looks pretty awkward, especially on atlas because of how he stops bobbing up and down when he pulls out his melee. It'd be awesome if warframe animation sets affected melee idles like they affect guns.

[RobWasHere]

1 hour ago, Evanescent said:

Daggers & Dual Daggers
The blades are held with the blade pointing up yet the swings are most of the time with the dagger held with the blade pointing down. The dual daggers actually do have a transition state when sheathing but suffer from the same issue when being used.  I suggest changing their grips to be blade pointing downwards from the palm.

 

In case of dual daggers, most natural stance would be one pointing down and one pointing up.

Spoiler

Two points down would be not ergonomic for puncturing, because you need to do slash before having hand in stabbing posture.

[Evanescent]

14 minutes ago, RobWasHere said:

In case of dual daggers, most natural stance would be one pointing down and one pointing up.

  Reveal hidden contents

Two points down would be not ergonomic for puncturing, because you need to do slash before having hand in stabbing posture.

I agree fully, but I was thinking more in terms of how the stance is designed, which are more slashing oriented.

[Syln]

As long as i have the possibility to chose between the idle animation without changing stance for the nikana ... why not ?

But if i couldn't : no thanks, i like my nikana sheated and don't care about realism as much as how my frame look.

[Evanescent]

24 minutes ago, Anonymous10081 said:

I'd like to see these changes too. Especially since I've always wanted to see the blade of the nikana while idle. They should change the walking and idle animation for fist weapons too imo. Looks pretty awkward, especially on atlas because of how he stops bobbing up and down when he pulls out his melee. It'd be awesome if warframe animation sets affected melee idles like they affect guns.

Aye! I love how Atlas does that little taunt and bobbing animation and was sad it wasn't kept when fists were equipped on him. Animation sets affecting melee would be neat too!

[Evanescent]

2 minutes ago, Syln said:

As long as i have the possibility to chose between the idle animation without changing stance for the nikana ... why not ?

But if i couldn't : no thanks, i like my nikana sheated and don't care about realism as much as how my frame look.

Appreciate your point of view, but I have to disagree. The Stances need more personality imo, but maybe DE could look into making it an on/off option?

[i_Lex]

1 hour ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Who cares?

Bruh.

[Yzjdriel]

I've had to stop using the Nikanas due to the impossibility of the movement when unsheathing/resheathing from/to the 'ready' position before/after a melee combo.  As an iaidoka (google it please if you don't know what that means) myself i find it very disturbing that the animations are so far removed from reality.

[Evanescent]

7 minutes ago, Yzjdriel said:

I've had to stop using the Nikanas due to the impossibility of the movement when unsheathing/resheathing from/to the 'ready' position before/after a melee combo.  As an iaidoka (google it please if you don't know what that means) myself i find it very disturbing that the animations are so far removed from reality.

I agree, it really breaks the immersion.