To everyone that has seen Devstream 71 and still oppose genderswap

[VampirePirate]

6 minutes ago, GDSK-NXS said:

Yeah as if. If warframe can sell gender skin on the workshop they will. I mean, if you have the choice of making a lot of money off literally no damage at all, what would you do?

Sure some warframes have been told to be "he" or "she" but maybe those were the "original" ones, as much as Hayden was the first Excalibur or whatever. THAT excalibur was the original male, all the other excaliburs are made to look like him, but if you want to personalize yours to look like a loli hell do it. No one gets hurt unless you have problems with genderswapping as a concept, or you hate seeing your beloved frame as a girly girl, because the masculinity of some people is as fragile as a glass of thin prop glass.
 

The Inaros from the quest, the Mirage, the Limbo, they are all just looking like that because they were based off the first ones created. Not because they have some kind of relevance with the one on the quest! The quest (specially Inaros' one) are kind of a look to the past, you unravel a story, you get a warframe related to it, that's it. Any warframe named on the story was probably the original one, but it has nothing to do with you making changes to the blueprint.

What the hell are you talking about?  What does this have to do with what I said?

I don't care what people want.  Doesn't bother me either way.  DE said they won't do it, and they pointed this out many times that they won't invest in genderswap.  If they changed their minds.  Fine.  i don't care.  Point is, they said they don't want to do this.

[GDSK-NXS]

11 minutes ago, RS219 said:

(sorry this piece of trash bugs a lot and I can't erase a previous quote for some unfuckable reason.

4 minutes ago, VampirePirate said:

What the hell are you talking about?  What does this have to do with what I said?

I don't care what people want.  Doesn't bother me either way.  DE said they won't do it, and they pointed this out many times that they won't invest in genderswap.  If they changed their minds.  Fine.  i don't care.  Point is, they said they don't want to do this.

"DE is simply not doing it." and "DE said they won't do it" are to different things, the first one is an arrogant affirmation, the second one is a statement of a fact.

Surely, DE does care about what the players want, and will do whatever they want within the reach between the dream they want to build, the community they want to entertain, and the money they want to continue with the project.

[VampirePirate]

5 minutes ago, GDSK-NXS said:

 

The only arrogance here is coming from you.  All i did was state fact.   They explained in a devstream why they won't do it and expressed why they felt they can't do it.  All factual.  I don't think i need to go into detail about it, nor do i have to prove myself to you.  Go find someone else to troll.

[Shreiko]

Not opposed but dont think it should be a priority, if its tennogen made then I'm fine with it.I just dont think DE should waste their resources rehashing different genders for old frames and making 2 for every future frame. Plus in the first place I don't see why people need the warframes to be a specific gender at all, I cant figure out the lure. It's just not you, it's a suit with a cod piece or teats that you control.

Also I've always felt that the genders of the frames are a big part of their identity and making them swappable would help lessen that.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Shreiko

[phoenix1992]

It is not time worthy to invest into gender swaps.
Not because some players want/do not want to see alternatives of the frames, but because of the sheer time needed for that. It is not just "a skin". This is opening a new hole to issues:
1) Re scaling frames, will bring up a pallet of clipping bugs.
2) Players moaning that Female Rhino (example) does not look good enough/is too sexualised.
3) Players moaning about devastated lore (whatever is left of it).
4) It is not cheap.
5) The time needed to implement all 40+ frames (primed and non primed) to gender speed is ridiculous.
6) Again players will want skins - we already are lacking on the Visual department on skins for new frames.
7) Cutting time and resources for this, instead of releasing new content.

[Misgenesis]

Mentioned doesnt mean highly possible. I really hope they dont allow Tennogen gender swaps let alone do it themselves.

For what reason anyway? Because someone doesnt like playing the opposite gender? Really?

If you ask me its better if Tennogen and DE keep putting out completely new things rather than consider doing gender swaps for existing frames.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Misgenesis

[VentiGlondi]

2 hours ago, KirukaChan said:

The best part about that is how much more girly Nezha is compared to Ember.

Are you saying that thunder thighs are masculine

[Bazools]

Imho DE should focus on gender swapping of frames/ alternative gender skins after the damage system is finished and polished, after all frames are properly balanced, the game engine improved and optimized further, etc... i don't consider that this should be something that the team needs to adress right now.

We all know that there are different departments for different areas of the game... but atm company resources should not be diverted to create gender alternative skins.

Oh and on the option to have the community using tennogen workshop to build/design the gender swapping skins i'm not against it but the skins better be on point and worthwhile... which imo i don't believe it would be a easy task for non DE staff.

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Bazools
Better conclusion to original answer

[ClinkzEastwood]

Those Chinese would love to see their gods Wukong and Nezha to become female.

Or Atlas and Loki.

[CaterHowlett16]

See I thought genderswap was not happening because DE themselves said that they didn't want to take the route and genderswaping wasn't even on the bargaining table.

But then I heard you say that it was mentioned in the recent Devstream. I didn't watch the devstream (my computer has issues with watching videos on youtube I get all the information I need by reading overviews) so I can't tell what the official response to this was, but the fact that it was mentioned at all....that changes everything. Now genderswap ISN'T some crazy gender-phobic idea as so many make it out to be. Instead it is now a legitimate idea DE may or may not do. Im neutral on this, but even I have to admit this is a huge step for the idea that was originally shot down repeatedly in the forums without question.

So what's my opinion on this? 

Well when you get down to it. the genderswap feature is a cosmetic, nothing more. It DOESN'T change the flow of the game, It DOESN'T require several trials of nerfs/buffs to make it balanced, And it  CERTAINLY WON'T dictate how people play the game. That is the best kind of content to put in. Why? because it doesn't damage the game gameplay wise in the slightest bit. It's like owning a immortal skin: I can wear it, it may look cool, but it doesn't affect my gameplay. I don't know why so many of you feel so passionate about this. Nobody is going to put a gun to your head and make you use it. However this will take time and may or may not be worth it so I'm actually fine with whatever route DE takes

P.S. Im laughing my arse off when I hear that developers make games as "an artistic expression" and not about serving the customer. Games ARE a service. And just like any service they are there to cater to people's needs and wants. If you think they didn't care on what players liked/disliked, why do we even have forums for games?

If you don't like a game. you don't play it and you CERTAINLY don't put money in it. Right? 

So how is Warframe going to stay afloat (IT NEEDS MONEY AND PLAYERS TO SURVIVE) if DE says "screw the fans, we're doing our own thing" and completely ignore the community's voice. They do that and people will stop playing/buying. It's that simple.

Catering to your community is a business tactic, however it is probably the nicest business tactic developers have ever thought of. THAT is why warframe is so popular. THAT is why other developers like Netherrealm and Bungie can't have a long lasting game. because people will be more likely to buy stuff they want (duh)

DE, DON'T STOP LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY    

[R34LM]

Speaking to the OP, that was early concept art of Ash before he was introduced; it did not act as a concept for a genderswapped Ash.

Making genderswaps serves no purpose, other than to amplify Fashion Frame. It is too much work for the art department when they could be working on new frames and deluxe skins, and, when they had mentioned the community getting in on it, I can imagine the community having too wild of an imagination, if you catch my meaning.

[Uzpian]

So wait, is gender swap going to be a thing in U19? Or it's just an idea that is being considered?

Didn't watched the Devstream so can anyone enlighten me?

[Doom_Bunny]

41 minutes ago, RadioLarity said:

I mean... If anyone of you played Skyrim for example and imagine that there were only specific genders for every race and the argument was "well, there is other gender in the other race".
Like for example you wanted to play Argonian female (due to the fact they can breathe in water) but there are only Argonian males, BUT you can still play Khajiit females! How wonderful!
Now do you understand it? I can't use World on Fire with my Chroma, or Iron skin with Valkyr. Just like there is no Sound Quake for Inaros.

Skyrim is an rpg where you can create, relate to your character, and put your self in the game.

Warframe is not an rpg. Instead of creating your individual you are given a character/hero which you can customize to an extent. The only place where you may be able to put your self in-game is the tenno/operator however even they distance them selves with dialogue, having you play the frame, and a quest to retrieve your self. This distances you by saying that the player is the frame and operator is an add-on. The only rpg aspect in warframe is the choices you get to make which still don't affect you as much as an rpg.

As Stratego pointed out we are practically a broken record that repeats what DE has already made clear, however no one seems to listen. From the last devstream DE is still leaning towards no. The reasons for this could be many however I think it's the same reasons as last time. To keep a frame's originality and characteristics a line must be drawn in customization, DE drew that line with sexes (and ability swapping). Changing or making a new model would cost more resources. Changing the main model without a lore connection removes any individual characteristics the frame had.

So you remove the cost with tennogen, great. Now how do you plan to keep individual characteristics while changing their model to female/male? If you just swap genitals it won't be as appealing. If you change the suit to be more masculine then it's just a masculine version of the original, individual characteristics is thrown out the door. If you completely change the suit but it's male/female then your just making a different character, in which case you might as well go for it and make a different character.

[SSI_CosmicKitten]

5 hours ago, RadioLarity said:

And it's time to bring it back because finally genderswap was mentioned in a devstream.

It was mentioned in the Devstream and was told that it's most unlikely it wont happen. 

I don't personally mind different Gender skins for our warframes, but i rather see that work effort on something else, something more necessary that has more priority other than "Looking cool"

[Misgenesis]

8 minutes ago, Uzpian said:

So wait, is gender swap going to be a thing in U19? Or it's just an idea that is being considered?

Didn't watched the Devstream so can anyone enlighten me?

''Unlikely'' as mentioned in the stream.

[Uzpian]

15 hours ago, Misgenesis said:

''Unlikely'' as mentioned in the stream.

Oh I see. Thanks.

[RS219]

6 minutes ago, CaterHowlett16 said:

-snip-

Haha, no.

There are many other better ways to serve the customers; us. Better quests, more lore and warframes and weapons and quests, so on and so forth. Haven't you seen the arguments of all the above posters, mine included?

I already mentioned the excessive time and money it would take to swap every frame that already exists. This doesn't even include the primed and deluxe frames and potential need for new animation stances and so on. I could go on to elaborate, but I'd essentially be copypasting my earlier post once again. You're telling DE to listen to the community, but it seems you haven't realized there's more than one facet of the community.

Your argument essentially boils down to "its pwetty so I'll buy it".

And, to GDSK: No, I did not mention Tennogen because I was referring to this concept if it were wholly done by DE, including time, money and resources allocated by them to do it.. Whether some third party modder takes his own time, effort and resources to make a tennogen skin... that is entirely up to DE to decide whether to implement or not.

[Damuranashi]

NOOO GOD. No god please. No. NO. NO. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Dammit Tumblr, stay away from Warframe. 

Even when the Tenno were revealed to be [DATA EXPUNGED] in the Second Dream, the warframes themselves are unique characters. Questa would have to be redone, dialogs would have to be changed, it is not worth it just for a cosmetic thing. You would have to start calling warframes "It" instead of "He" or "She".

Alad V torured Valkyr, Valkyr is a woman, it would make no sense for a male Valkyr screaming around like something happend to him.

 

[Dobermann92]

I don't oppose gender swap but I don't see the point of it. The stats of the warframes would be the same, so why would we need to alternate the gender of the warframes. It isn't a role playing game and if it is then you have your Teeno at the back of the Orbiter which is truly you.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Dobermann92

[CaterHowlett16]

18 minutes ago, RS219 said:

-snip- (you didn't have time to properly quote me so I will not properly quote you)

Im not argueing with you. Read my post thoroughly then get back to me. 

[Vunie]

is that picture suppose to change anything? still against it cuz it makes no sense and is a waste of resources if you feel insecure about playing a different gender on a videogame then you have bigger issues to take care of 

[-Amaterasu-]

If you actually watched the Devstream DE's stance on gender swap is still effectively no they only considered allowing it in tennogen and I can already think of many reasons why it would never work

1. Clipping Galore

2. No Animations (default ones) would look quite right

3. No Dev Support (Aside from getting it in the game assuming it even does the devs aren't going to make content for someone elses content that they have to split with them it's just bad business)

4. They would be skins - do you really want that? you would be unable to equip any kind of skin on it or it would go back to being its standard gender

5. Tennogen = no consoles (as of yet) so many would probably be very unhappy

6. Valkyr

7. Would probably feel lazy keep in mind the Devs aren't making this the community would be so it's not going to be nearly as optimized as the default frames.

8. Valkyr

9. Tennogen costs real money.

Even if these skins made it into the game people woulden't be happy they'd want more and yell at the devs to support it it's a waste of time and resources that can be used to make better content really I could care less about whether or not it exists in the game but if it's preventing better, meaningful content from making it in then I start to have a problem.

[RS219]

8 minutes ago, CaterHowlett16 said:

Im not argueing with you. Read my post thoroughly then get back to me. 

Snipped you because including your full quote with my reply would result in a wall of text. Anyways.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting something, but one moment you say you're neutral to the idea of genderswapped frames then next moment you seem to be implying that DE MUST implement these skins and that not doing it is somehow doing a disservice to every paying customer (what with that whole "listen to the community" thing). If what you say is the case that people are going to leave because no genderswap skins? Well, I suppose that's a few thousand bucks per month lost... out of the hundred thousands more DE is making, what with Chinaframe now flooding in additional revenue.

Like I said. When I started Warframe I had the same "there should be genderswap" ideas, but with the way things have been built on, and the way things are now? It'll probably be implemented sometime right before Excalibur Prime is made publicly available.

[Calwon5]

The reason why I like playing warframe is because each frame has its own personality. Some frames are "male" and some are "female", but if you put a gender swap option on each then it just ruins the aspect of that frame. Now for the logical standing of this idea: DE shouldn't in my opinion, invest their time into bringing this idea to reality. It's not moving the game forward and its not really bringing anything new. It would cause everything planned to be slow down, making entire new models for each frame existed: Non-Prime Frames, Primed frames, and future frames. Sure, I get it that some people in warframe  would love this idea to come true. Except, it would ruin something magical in this game to me and others. Also to some of the people who used the reason of "im unable to play either male or female frames". I don't understand why it would matter, when you know that your operator is male or female. The appearance of the frames shouldn't be the thing that defines the operator or you. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[Finedaible]

1. It's probably already a pain for developers to fix the large amounts of clipping, attachment placement, weapon holstering, animations, etc, with each new warframe or cosmetic that's introduced. Adding an extra model for each warframe would be no small task, and is likely to create many more problems than is worth satisfying a very small part of the community.

2. It breaks the game's atmosphere. To me, at least, warframes' appearances are a distinct part of their identity and powers. What er you going to call a male Ivara, or a male Nyx?

3. The only reason people want a gender swapped skin is for their own perverted fan "art".

Edited March 19, 2016 by Finedaible