Tennogen on consoles and non-steam PC warframe Discussion

[ClockworkSpectre]

14 minutes ago, Fostinator said:

You sound incredibly entitled. DE owes you nothing. The current system is fine. Cant pay for Tennogen items? Dont buy them. They are only cosmetic.

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said that DE owes me or anyone anything.  I am not acting entitled (really annoying how people throw that word around so much online), maybe i worded it insufficiently (as I left out a big part of the issue I have with it).  I see it as wrong that it is only available through steam, in large part because it is also excluding the console players.  I won't give DE money through tenno gen sales until its fair/available for everyone.  I really don't think they should have even started this tenno gen thing before having this all worked out, there is no way they didn't see this being an issue before hand. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by ClockworkSpectre

[Fostinator]

Just now, ClockworkSpectre said:

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said that DE owes me or anyone anything.  I am not acting entitled (really annoying how people throw that word around so much online), maybe i worded it insufficiently.  I see it as wrong that it is only available through steam, in large part because it is also excluding the console players.  I won't give DE money through tenno gen sales until its fair/available for everyone.  I really don't think they should have even started this tenno gen thing before having this all worked out, there is no way they didn't see this being an issue before hand. 

Yeah, I want console to have the Tennogen items too. I still feel like having the items be paid however.

[5HV3N]

Amount of weird excuses and backwards thinking here is just staggering. As standalone client player I used to ignore this whole thing. But after seeing my posts being moved here, i skimmed through whole thread...

 

I'm afraid platinum would do me as a creator little good. . Untill I can pay rent/food/catfood with DE platinum, money will have to do.

Then you don't take a job if payment isn't good enough and you have other options. It isn't complicated concept. Untill recently tennogen winners were paid royalties with platinum.

Tennogen participants need to be paid with real cash.
There is a way of having them paid. It's called a contract. Or job. Or whatever correct term would be.
None of those skins is worth used tissue outside game envoierment. And currency used to get stuff within this world is platinum. Which has determined price . Even if it's lowered by tempting people by handing them out 75% off coupons on regular basis.
 

 

 

content creation is being outsourced

salary for content creators is being outsorced.

this is madness.

 

 

 

"Tenno, we noticed that long term players accumulated high amounts of platinum. To stir things up, we introduced new resource: steam-dollars. Stay tuned for increasingly aggressive monetization in future"

 

In all honesty, after realizing how twisted this whole steam workshop idea is... If u19 won't be mindblowing, I'm outsorcing my low-flight entertiement somewhere else. I won't stand by game created by company that claims that end user needs to pay it's employees directly.

 

Even if it is about something as meaningless as in-game cosmetics.
I really liked tennogen idea, untill I understood that cash-only purchases isn't valve's idea.

Edited May 30, 2016 by 5HV3N

[JustOR1G1N]

I decided to start this thread (definetely, I'm not first to ask that) because I'm living in Ukraine, country where the nominal standard minimal wage is 1450 UAH (~57$ at this moment) per month. Don't you think that it's insanity to pay 5-7$ for one texture in game in this situation? I understand that it's not DE's fault, but "GabeN & co." doesn't even seem to care about it. So, will this skins arrive in game market someday or should I just forget about them and wait 'till things will change with regional prices for my country (like it has been done in Russia for example)?

Edited May 30, 2016 by JustOR1G1N

[Klavinmour]

They are paid exclusives because other people made them and it's the only way for the people that made them to get paid.

[JustOR1G1N]

1 hour ago, Klavinmour said:

They are paid exclusives because other people made them and it's the only way for the people that made them to get paid.

I know it, but as far as I remember, first TennoGen skins pack was introduced into market and people who made those skins were paid in plat.

Edited May 30, 2016 by JustOR1G1N

[Cephalon_Ordis]

pretty sure that you 'sign a contract' or accept an agreement that states you'll be given a % of the earnings from the sales of that item, and that it may depend on the agreement/contract wether or not you are paid in hard cash or platinum. if it says in the agreement that they will be paid real money for the items, i'd assume the items will either A: stay as they are. B: become available to buy with plat, but at a much, much higher price to compensate for the money DE potentially loses.

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

30% of the price is paid to the skin creator, which is only fair to pay a little more for user- created skins.

[JustOR1G1N]

9 minutes ago, Cephalon_Ordis said:

pretty sure that you 'sign a contract' or accept an agreement that states you'll be given a % of the earnings from the sales of that item, and that it may depend on the agreement/contract wether or not you are paid in hard cash or platinum. if it says in the agreement that they will be paid real money for the items, i'd assume the items will either A: stay as they are. B: become available to buy with plat, but at a much, much higher price to compensate for the money DE potentially loses.

I don't mind if these skins would be in game market even at higher price (200-300p per one for example). Because it's hurts a bit when you have a few thousands of platinum, but new items mostly have nothing to do with in-game currency.

Edited May 30, 2016 by JustOR1G1N

[h41pa]

the price its stupid rlly :) and also for prime acces price is big 

for example in my country a normal salary is somewhere on max300 Euro !

ANd with this budget how i suppose to buy a prime acces ?:)

Maybe DE do something about those zones:!!)

[Cephalon_Ordis]

2 minutes ago, h41pa said:

ANd with this budget how i suppose to buy a prime acces

save up money, at this point in time you still have around 2,5 months until the next PA

[JustOR1G1N]

53 minutes ago, Cephalon_Ordis said:

save up money, at this point in time you still have around 2,5 months until the next PA

But these prices are still unfair if compare them to Russian. PA accecories' cost there is about 23$ (1550₽), while in Ukraine, for some reasons, we must pay full price, which is 50$.
And same stuff is happening with Steam TennoGen items. For example: Nova Visage Skin and Helmet cost in Ukraine is 6.99$, while in Russia it costs 160 (or 170₽, I don't remember well), it's about 2.5$. I wouldn't mind to buy some items, but the price makes me feel like someone is trying to rob me.

Edited May 30, 2016 by JustOR1G1N

[fredaven]

untill my supermarket and landlord takes platinum as payment I would prefer money.

[Kai_Shiba]

8 hours ago, JustOR1G1N said:

I know it, but as far as I remember, first TennoGen skins pack was introduced into market and people who made those skins were paid in plat.

Those Tennogen items are old and were handled differently

[Kai_Shiba]

6 hours ago, JustOR1G1N said:

But these prices are still unfair if compare them to Russian. PA accecories' cost there is about 23$ (1550₽), while in Ukraine, for some reasons, we must pay full price, which is 50$.
And same stuff is happening with Steam TennoGen items. For example: Nova Visage Skin and Helmet cost in Ukraine is 6.99$, while in Russia it costs 160 (or 170₽, I don't remember well), it's about 2.5$. I wouldn't mind to buy some items, but the price makes me feel like someone is trying to rob me.

The prices are actually the same as plat purchases of helmets/accessories.

Removing the plat accessories in the ingame market from plat costs and turning them to direct cash only will be the same as Tennogen prices.

DE have already stated that the prices will never change. But, they want to work on having the skins to be purchasable in-game without cash. The problem is that A. How will content creators be paid directly easily and B. Where will the content creators put their work where it's easily manageable and to list?

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by KJRenz

[LordOfScrugging]

13 hours ago, JustOR1G1N said:

I know it, but as far as I remember, first TennoGen skins pack was introduced into market and people who made those skins were paid in plat.

those were put into the game from a contest. these tennogen skins are basically DE giving some community members a job and they get paid real life money. how would you like it if your job paid you in monopoly money? (plat = a currency that holds no merit in real life) 

[fredaven]

"Then you don't take a job if payment isn't good enough and you have other options. It isn't complicated concept. Untill recently tennogen winners were paid royalties with platinum. "

 

-Yes. you are absolutley right. I won't take it. And I'm pretty sure a lot of the other tennogen artists wouldn't.

Why would I spend hundreds of hours (this is on the level of fulltime job in terms of commitment) to get payed in a currency that has no real value outside the game.

Steam to me isn't the best solution. The best solution for me would be an internal submission system (akin to playerstudio for everquest/planetside2) this also takes care of the console problem as far as I know.

 

[alexmach1]

On 5/29/2016 at 9:10 PM, 5HV3N said:

Tennogen participants need to be paid with real cash.
There is a way of having them paid. It's called a contract. Or job. Or whatever correct term would be.

Jobs in the gaming industry require portfolios and prior work experience

we have the portfolios but can't get the experience because not having experience knocks you down a peg, meaning the job goes to someone else and you can't get the experience needed

Tennogen provides both portfolio work and experience

and we get paid for doing what we enjoy doing

if anything, Tennogen is already a "job"

Edited May 31, 2016 by alexmach1

[JustOR1G1N]

11 hours ago, LordOfScrugging said:

those were put into the game from a contest. these tennogen skins are basically DE giving some community members a job and they get paid real life money. how would you like it if your job paid you in monopoly money? (plat = a currency that holds no merit in real life) 

The more I play this "game", the more new content starts to remind me about one thing: that's not a game, that's a pure business (this is oblivious fact, but it wasn't so noticeable before in Warframe). I've got a thousands plat, but devs keep saying "NOPE" to game market and keep adding more paid-only cosmetics. So what's the reason to buy/farm plat at all when you are high MR player and don't feel the need to buy slots, potatoes? To have one new syandana when big update happens 3-4 times in a year? Or to buy one deluxe skin bundle in 2-3 months? Steam cosmetics store keeps growing, while there is no any updates in cosmetics from devs since Sands Of Inaros update, which have brought us 2 syandanas (exept for few alt. helmets for atlas, nezha, wukong). Oh, and I've forgot those 2(!) deluxe skin bundles with banshee and oberon. But still, those things are non-compareable to all TennoGen stuff that was released in last few months.

Edited May 31, 2016 by JustOR1G1N

[fredaven]

On the contract bit, just to chime in. (this is slightly derailing)

I got quite a bit of experience with things like this, both hiring people  in the role of creative director (in digital production so slightly different) but also as freelancing 3D artist.

Setting up contracts is time consuming, it's also exactly what it says. A contract. If DE signs a contract with X person, they are obliged to pay that person (if they dliver ofc).

Not only that, they also need the man-hours for a producer/project manager, Art director and accounting ontop of this contract work to validate/manage/pay.


Steamworkshop etc on the other hand?

It's a one time investment with no commitment. 

For small companies like DE having small overheads is key. Tennogen costs them minimal amount of money and at the same time generates a fair bit of revenue.
And most importantly, it's low risk.


 

[fredaven]

Steam cosmetics keep on growing because there's alot of people doing it on tennogen. A big part of that is the incentive of cash. Take away that incentive that it will stop. Tennogen artist do need to treat it like a buisness. Its hard and pretty cynical but it's time invested vs return.

That's why you don't see any chroma skins of quality. Or mesa skins of quality. "Fringe frames" that don't have the playerbase to justify the work.

If you want to know how tennogen would look without the monetary part of it. Have a look at the excalibur section. 95% of those submissions are submissions done by non-professionals who did it for "fun". That's what you would be looking at. 

A lot of the artists who have made stuff for tennogen is also involved in DOTAs workshop, playerstudio etc. For many of them this is their main/big part source of income. Don't think that they will keep making things for warframe out of some missplaced loyalty. They will move on or do better things with their time.

[HitsuSan]

On 5/30/2016 at 10:35 AM, JustOR1G1N said:

I decided to start this thread (definetely, I'm not first to ask that) because I'm living in Ukraine, country where the nominal standard minimal wage is 1450 UAH (~57$ at this moment) per month. Don't you think that it's insanity to pay 5-7$ for one texture in game in this situation? I understand that it's not DE's fault, but "GabeN & co." doesn't even seem to care about it. So, will this skins arrive in game market someday or should I just forget about them and wait 'till things will change with regional prices for my country (like it has been done in Russia for example)?

No i'm sorry but this argument doesn't work. You should forget about them until your regional prices get adjusted. I know it doesn't seem fair but we are talking about cosmetic items that you don't need to own in order to enjoy the game. You can apply this exact same argument at sports car, do you need to own a sports car (insert brand here)? No. It's unfair cause you can't have a sports car cause it costs too much? Not really isn't it? Would be cool if you can have a sports car at the exact price ratio scaled for your minimal wage of your country? Of course, but that doesn't happen either right? ^^ Manufacturers can't afford to sell you a luxury item at 1/50 of it's price in the name of fairness :\

 

I'm ok with regional adjustment but i won't hide the fact that we can't afford it either. Just don't forget the fact that in some cases we are talking about months of work to make one of those skins ;)

[JustOR1G1N]

7 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

No i'm sorry but this argument doesn't work. You should forget about them until your regional prices get adjusted. I know it doesn't seem fair but we are talking about cosmetic items that you don't need to own in order to enjoy the game. You can apply this exact same argument at sports car, do you need to own a sports car (insert brand here)? No. It's unfair cause you can't have a sports car cause it costs too much? Not really isn't it? Would be cool if you can have a sports car at the exact price ratio scaled for your minimal wage of your country? Of course, but that doesn't happen either right? ^^ Manufacturers can't afford to sell you a luxury item at 1/50 of it's price in the name of fairness :\

But somehow it's working for Russian region. I explained the difference between prices few posts above.

 

On 30.05.2016 at 1:16 PM, JustOR1G1N said:

But these prices are still unfair if compare them to Russian. PA accecories' cost there is about 23$ (1550₽), while in Ukraine, for some reasons, we must pay full price, which is 50$.
And same stuff is happening with Steam TennoGen items. For example: Nova Visage Skin and Helmet cost in Ukraine is 6.99$, while in Russia it costs 160 (or 170₽, I don't remember well), it's about 2.5$. I wouldn't mind to buy some items, but the price makes me feel like someone is trying to rob me.

 

[HitsuSan]

Yeah, that's why i said i'm ok with regional prices adaptation ^^ That depends on your country and steam though, there's nothing we (users, content creators or DE) can do about it.

[JustOR1G1N]

11 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

Yeah, that's why i said i'm ok with regional prices adaptation ^^ That depends on your country and steam though, there's nothing we (users, content creators or DE) can do about it.

But as you can see, this affects not only Steam content. Prime Access too, also prices for platinum purchases have same difference. And it's making me really sad... I have a strong feeling like I'm living in wrong country -_-

Edited May 31, 2016 by JustOR1G1N