Megakruemel Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, SoulHunter2008 said: Now hear me out I'm not saying that he could not use tweaks maybe faster animation with less damage. I'm just scared that he will die to the thing that essentially killed Mesa as a played frame. Are you actually implying mesa is not playable? Because she is totally playable and enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulHunter2008 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 Just now, CrudShuzKong said: I love Mesa and still play her, I just never use the 4... DE made some big mistakes with her rework/nerf and I think they are fully aware of it, but it is clearly not a priority for them right now to make her stronger again. so you want the same thing to happen to Ash..never use the one ability that made the frame unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrudShuzKong Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 1 minute ago, SoulHunter2008 said: so you want the same thing to happen to Ash..never use the one ability that made the frame unique. he is still the only frame with teleport and access to can opener for finishers, i would rather have them improve on that mechanic that also makes him unique, then on Bladestrom which makes him unique in a very bad way right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulHunter2008 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 Just now, Megakruemel said: Are you actually implying mesa is not playable? Because she is totally playable and enjoyable. She is playable but her 4th ability is now so counter-productive that its better to just not use it which is wrong and a bad change that DE made. Also as stated above in the last 4~5 months i have only seen maybe 4 or 5 Mesa's being played and if that does not show that something needs to change on her I don't know what to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaleek Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I am really sad about Mesa's current state. I love the frame, but if i had it my way i would add a new 1 ability or just make her 1 a passive that fills and discharges. her 2 and 3 are solid abilities. I was okay with the reticle change but the fact that the damage scales with how small your reticle is made her ult kinda meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulHunter2008 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said: he is still the only frame with teleport and access to can opener for finishers, i would rather have them improve on that mechanic that also makes him unique, then on Bladestrom which makes him unique in a very bad way right now... Loki,Nezha, and Nova are all frames that have access to a teleport like ability(granted not giving option to finishers) that are the same if not superior due to no constraints on location. Ash NEEDS a target to teleport to while the 3 above can "blink" to pretty much wherever they want. Teleport on Ash does great for what its meant to do a controlled blink to a target for single assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaotea Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I was always fine with messas ult, as in order to get any real use out of it you had to max strength and efficiency, which meant pummeling her other abilities into the ground on continuity and range. Still, i do like the new directional aim mode, though i think the aimer is hard to see. The use of both continuity and efficiency to effect drain makes my build far more dependable for general gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Wait. So I gave up reading the wall of text around 3/4 of the way through. Was that all seriously just a thinly veiled "change mesa back to how she was she was fine" thread wearing a cloak of "don't ruin ash" to lure people who are tired of seeing that topic in? Seriously?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Stealth_Cobra Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) ASH has been my fav frame for a long time, back in the days where Bladestorm sucked and was pretty much useless, relegating him to an invisiblity frame... The fact that the bladestorm rework has made him viable in more game modes and situations was a god send, allowing much better builds. The way I see it, ash already god his "rework", and what they did with him works just fine. Adding the bleed proc + augment for shuriken, making teleport open up to finishers, allowing you to share your invis with smoke shadow, and giving 18 targets and two clones to speed up bladestorm made ash great again. I can see why DE is trying to kill Press 4 to win frames, but I feel ash's ult is already balanced by forcing you to be stationnary for upwards of ten seconds without relocating, and due to it's cap on number of enemies killed. It's far less OP than Ember's world on fire, Excal's Exalted Blade of doom or the almighty molecular prime... For those that hate the fact you have to wait for the animation to finish, I personally consider this part of what makes ash unique... Making it more active could be great if done right, but I have a feel it would mean a hard nerf to the abiity, which sucks. In high level content, bladestorm serves as a way to shield yourself from enemy damage, and like it or not , it's part of Ash's damage mitigation loop... Edited March 22, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulHunter2008 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Stratego89 said: Wait. So I gave up reading the wall of text around 3/4 of the way through. Was that all seriously just a thinly veiled "change mesa back to how she was she was fine" thread wearing a cloak of "don't ruin ash" to lure people who are tired of seeing that topic in? Seriously?? No it was a warning that with the wording going around about the Ash change "interactive" it is my real fear that Ash will be made near unplayable or at least what ever play rate he has right now will plummet the same way Mesa had. Do i want Mesa to go back to her former glory yes all the yes, is that the whole point of this thread no if you did read the whole post, instead of skimming and making a rushed comment, i was using Mesa as an example of a frame that had gone through the process that Ash is going through now and the result of Mesa scares me for the future of Ash (the title of the thread if you did not catch that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshmellory Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 8 hours ago, SoulHunter2008 said: Now your saying well that is the problem but that is the BALANCE the trade-off for the high damage and spam-ability (based on how you mod him) if you choose to Blade Storm you are choosing to say not hit the air container in Survival to not help your team defend the target in Defense you are making the choice to use Blade Storm instead of helping a downed teammate. how is that balance?? "here's the most braindead OP abilities in the game, BUT the tradeoff is that it completely degrades team play" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renleech Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I am not an Ash player, so my opinion may sound ignorant. I played Ash once, for mastery. Did not like it. Bladestorm movement is sickness inducing for me, clumsy, and with the plus of making the targets invulnerable to other players. This second feature is what bothers me most. Bladestorm needs a change for yesterday, not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 9 minutes ago, SoulHunter2008 said: No it was a warning that with the wording going around about the Ash change "interactive" it is my real fear that Ash will be made near unplayable or at least what ever play rate he has right now will plummet the same way Mesa had. Do i want Mesa to go back to her former glory yes all the yes, is that the whole point of this thread no if you did read the whole post, instead of skimming and making a rushed comment, i was using Mesa as an example of a frame that had gone through the process that Ash is going through now and the result of Mesa scares me for the future of Ash (the title of the thread if you did not catch that). Mesa had no "plummet". Mesa's peacemaker got BUFFS. Mesa is FINE. There is no "Former glory". She was horrendous before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulHunter2008 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 1 minute ago, renleech said: I am not an Ash player, so my opinion may sound ignorant. I played Ash once, for mastery. Did not like it. Bladestorm movement is sickness inducing for me, clumsy, and with the plus of making the targets invulnerable to other players. This second feature is what bothers me most. Bladestorm needs a change for yesterday, not now. i agree that his animations need to be changed they are outdated by DE's current standard and yes that mobs invulnerability is indeed a problem but both don't require the entire ability to change just some tweeks to make it smoother and not team blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genitive Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 33 minutes ago, Megakruemel said: Are you actually implying mesa is not playable? Because she is totally playable and enjoyable. Now you see, that's the problem. One ability overshadows the other three so much that some people don't see anything past that one ability. The one thing OP doesn't notice is the fact that nuke frames like old Mesa ruin fun for people like me. I don't really enjoy a game when one ability kills everything in range and I'm left with nothing to do. And that other player does nothing at all apart from pressing 4. I fail to see the point of playing a shooter where you don't have to do anything. Or any game at all in that matter. Another thing is that we don't know how the Bladestorm rework will turn out. I strongly suggest waiting until we get it before we start with doomsaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakenreiter Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'm pretty sure I played Ash even more than you. He is my "main" / favourite warframe as well. I for one cannot wait for them to finally change Bladestorm. It's an awful ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulHunter2008 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 16 minutes ago, marshmellory said: how is that balance?? "here's the most braindead OP abilities in the game, BUT the tradeoff is that it completely degrades team play" The number of targets is small, it has to be used on a target can not just hit 4 and it goes off, and with the clones and the way it functions now if you use it right it helps team play quite a bit (keywords: IF USED RIGHT). I am not for spamming abilities but when you have Excall or Ember(toggle) why is there any issue with Ash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwolfknight Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'm a main ash player since the begining and i can say that the old bladestorm had an actual trade off, you where literally stuck for more than 20 seconds depending on level and amount of enemies, allowing your allies to die objectives to be destroy and so many other things, but Thankfully DE realised that that did not make it balanced (however not to the extent needed), not allowing you to play is not a good tradeoff for a powerfull abilitie so they added clones dividing the time you would be stuck in blades, However that literraly only buffed the abilitie and did not solve the problem. The benefit is you can kill every thing there is around you, and the hinderance is still that you don't play for a few seconds, blade storm is not balanced, they never fixed anything, they just made it more convinient. in other words: Spoiler I hope DE destroy bladestorm so people stop abusing him and making playing warframe boring for both sides. also so he can come back to being a ninja frame not a press 4 to win frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulHunter2008 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Drakenreiter said: I'm pretty sure I played Ash even more than you. He is my "main" / favourite warframe as well. I for one cannot wait for them to finally change Bladestorm. It's an awful ability. Just checked ingame and I have double your kills and experiance on Ash so i doubt your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwolfknight Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Just now, SoulHunter2008 said: Just checked ingame and I have double your kills and experiance on Ash so i doubt your claim. no wonder i supose this are from his 4 abillities isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotvrna Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) I'm not gonna say anything about Bladestorm because Ash is too much of a solo frame for me to care about him. Mesa is fine. Her kit is great, and does what it promises: It improves gunplay. Now, her ult does feel a bit lackluster and maybe they could change it so she would use the Peacemakers the same way Ivara uses Artemis Bow. But honestly, if you use Mesa for her ult right now, you really shouldn't be playing her. Edited March 22, 2016 by AntifaHooligan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulHunter2008 Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 11 minutes ago, Genitive said: Now you see, that's the problem. One ability overshadows the other three so much that some people don't see anything past that one ability. The one thing OP doesn't notice is the fact that nuke frames like old Mesa ruin fun for people like me. I don't really enjoy a game when one ability kills everything in range and I'm left with nothing to do. And that other player does nothing at all apart from pressing 4. I fail to see the point of playing a shooter where you don't have to do anything. Or any game at all in that matter. Another thing is that we don't know how the Bladestorm rework will turn out. I strongly suggest waiting until we get it before we start with doomsaying. i never said there was not a problem I'm only saying that DE's attempt to fix it failed miserably and that the Mesa change is similar to how Ash is being treated now and from past events (Mesa) i fear for the changes that may come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Jiwa- Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Best to just wait how DE rework Ash's 4th then discuss@give opinion afterwards...Discussing it now bring more flame@pointless argument rather than constructive ideas...Just my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS- Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) I too am an Ash main... I use the regular Ash too, cuz the Prime... Well he doesn't even look like Ash. XD Welp... it's a topic that's drawn some attention and I guess there will be changes, because a very vocal few among us feel it is just to do so or it "annoys" them. Either way... Please just don't stop us from having these kinds of feels when playing Ash DE. Don't take the edge out of the edge master. Please DE. Edited March 24, 2016 by sushidubya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Your make-the-game-play-itself button will not survive. You should be worried. Though I doubt they haven't heard the feedback on Mesa's disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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