Saryn 2.1 Buff Molt, Toxic Lash and Miasma.

[IfritKajiTora]

I now play as SARYN PRIME as my second favourite frame and I realy don't like 2 things, and I know people complain about them, so thats what she needs:

Molt: 2 seconds invulnerability, all damage enemy deals to molt while invulnerability state will be changed to health boost for molt. It have +100% health from armor. Just the same as Iron Skin and Snow Globe have.

Toxic Lash: This one is realy almost non usable by players. Saryn put toxin on her weapon, but she have that green aura on herself, so we can get it as she puts toxins on the weapon and herself, and what could it do:
"She regen her wounds. 30 Health regen per second, affected by power strength."

Right now Regenerating Molt is must have, adding health regen to her "Toxic Lash" will make Regenerating Molt as a optional choice to have more health regeneration per second.

Miasma: Just blind enemies for 6 seconds because of toxin in their eyes.

Edited March 24, 2016 by IfritKajiTora

[AKKILLA]

Can the name go back to Contagion? I prefer it over Toxic Lash.

Plus it makes sense cuz Your melee spreads disease like a contagious virus. Iirc its discription says it spreads spores soo its Contagious not Toxic Lash. Sounds boring imo.

W.e The name isnt the real issue here, its Miasma really. Im not sure how it can be buffed except maybe implement a scaling off of all weapons elemental damages?

Say instead of scaling off of one weapons mod type scale it off of all weapons but only the elemental types that are associated with Toxin, Vira,l Gas, and Corrosive damages. Imo Saryn should manipulate all Poison type damages, not just Toxin Viral and Gas. Corrosive should be takin into account for Saryn, she is the Queen of Poison imo

[Hellmaker2004]

34 minutes ago, IfritKajiTora said:

Molt: 2 seconds invulnerability, all damage enemy deals to molt while invulnerability state will be changed to health boost for molt. It have +100% health from armor. Just the same as Iron Skin and Snow Globe have.

 

Giving it two seconds of invulnerability where it increases health depending on how much damage it takes during thatr time would be a nerf for the skill.

Molt Synergy with Miasma:"Miasma's damage will be increased depending on the percentage of Molt's lost hitpoints when detonated and depending on Power Strength."

 

If it should have invulnerability it should act more like molt being unable to be destroyed but still capable of loosing health.

[IfritKajiTora]

24 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Giving it two seconds of invulnerability where it increases health depending on how much damage it takes during thatr time would be a nerf for the skill.

I just use 1 and then 2 and again 2 to detonate first molt.

[Hellmaker2004]

A molt with 100% Health remaining will deal less damage if detonated  than one with only 1% health left. The damage scale with how much Health Molt have lost before you detonate it.

[IfritKajiTora]

2 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

A molt with 100% Health remaining will deal less damage if detonated  than one with only 1% health left. The damage scale with how much Health Molt have lost before you detonate it.

ouu, but stil damage is low, its only good to toxin enemies and with Miasma do more damage.

[AKKILLA]

i was thinking does it make sense to farm Saryn from Kela and Nyx from Phorid? I was thinking shouldnt it be the other way around? Phorid is an infested just thought it would make more sense, Saryns like an infestid imo

[IfritKajiTora]

2 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

i was thinking does it make sense to farm Saryn from Kela and Nyx from Phorid? I was thinking shouldnt it be the other way around? Phorid is an infested just thought it would make more sense, Saryns like an infestid imo

Wow, the thread is about Saryn buff, and here we have comment about where she should drop, WTF?  xD

[Hellmaker2004]

12 minutes ago, IfritKajiTora said:

ouu, but stil damage is low, its only good to toxin enemies and with Miasma do more damage.

 

You say that as if Toxin an enemy would be a bad thing for Saryn.

 

Spore: " If an infected enemy is being damaged by a  Toxin proc, popping a spore on that enemy will also spread Toxin damage to surrounding enemies. The spore will have 25% of the initial base damage that triggered the Toxin proc added to its burst damage as  Viral damage with a 100% status chance for  Viral and  Toxineffects. "

[IfritKajiTora]

1 minute ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

You say that as if Toxin an enemy would be a bad thing for Saryn

What?!
I didnt said/wrote that. Its only good to toxin enemies and then miasma will do more damage to them.
Viral makes +100% damage and toxin too, so both deals +200% damage.
It doesnt care how much damage molt will do, its just add toxin status to all enemies in range.

[Hellmaker2004]

A foe that has Both Toxin and Spores on them, will if you pop the spore spread the same Toxin debuff towards all enemies that get afflicted by the spore spread.

 

Toxin. The  Toxin status effect is Poison, which deals 50% of your weapon or power's base damage in 9 ticks over 8 seconds as  Toxin damage. Multiple instances of the  Toxin DoT stack on the same target, with each instance having its own timer.

 

Saryn does not need a damage buff, she can easily kill Sortier 3 foes when you play around her kit so you should care how much damage molt does as it may not be her highest contribution to her damage "Toxic Lash is" But it is contributing.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Hellmaker2004

[Brosephelon]

Toxic Lash is "fine" its not a great ability but it does work and it does contribute.  The main issue with Toxic Lash has more to do with Saryn being squishy and Molt not giving her enough protection.  

Realistially she could really REALLY use some buffs to Molt notably an immunity period similar to Iron skin and Snow Globe so that it can actually be usable against high level enemies (against low level enemies it works fine).  By making Molt better you in effect make Toxic Lash stronger as it becomes more usable (the issues with Toxic Lash are entirely about Saryn not being durable enough to constantly melee, not the power of the effect itself).  

Miasma is also "ok" its not as good as Toxic Lash, but its issues again have more to do with enemy scaling and armor.  To that end I've been a big fan of making each tick of Miasma apply a corrosive proc or have a chance to do so.  You don't have to scale its damage, make it have insane CC, or anything to make it an inherently stronger ability just give her a solid anti-armor option which will make Miasma more effective against armored enemies while still focusing her gameplay around spore.  

 

All these threads about Saryn just don't make sense to me, shes basically the best high end AoE damage frame in the game.  Shes nearly made Nova obsolete while still bringing more bulk and damage to the table.  Shes not an easy frame to play, and thats a GREAT thing.  Saryn rewards skill, off meta weapons, and working together.  Aside from issues when not in a team with 4xCP and Molt's general under performance shes otherwise in a great place that we should be moving more frames towards not moving Saryn away from, atleast thats my 2cents.  

 

[Ohmlink]

I saw a suggestion of putting the invulnerability stage for molt when it has 2pct health left. It would help molt survive as well as not nerfing the way its health affects damage.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

 

Giving it two seconds of invulnerability where it increases health depending on how much damage it takes during thatr time would be a nerf for the skill.

Molt Synergy with Miasma:"Miasma's damage will be increased depending on the percentage of Molt's lost hitpoints when detonated and depending on Power Strength."

 

If it should have invulnerability it should act more like molt being unable to be destroyed but still capable of loosing health.

You think so? Optional uses aside: the main function of molt is to distract the enemys away from saryn. It gets abused as cheap ae quite often but that's also what this is: abuse.

 

Giving it this kinda threatment would buff its actuall function, make strategical uses more accessable (detonating it away from you with miasama pushs your range quite a bit) and buff regenerating molt. It could stay destroyable with miasama at any point. No biggie.

 

[IfritKajiTora]

12 minutes ago, Brosephelon said:

Toxic Lash is "fine" its not a great ability but it does work and it does contribute.  The main issue with Toxic Lash has more to do with Saryn being squishy and Molt not giving her enough protection.  

 

13 minutes ago, Brosephelon said:

Realistially she could really REALLY use some buffs to Molt notably an immunity period similar to Iron skin and Snow Globe so that it can actually be usable against high level enemies

 

13 minutes ago, Brosephelon said:

All these threads about Saryn just don't make sense to me

 

First you write that she need a buff to molt and toxic lash, but then that those Saryn threads don't make sense to you.....

The hell?

Miasma is doing good damage, but toxic lash and molt need something, damage is not everything.

[taiiat]

would rather see Power Strength actually affect Molt's Shield value as well as Shield and Health Regen Speed, plus reducing Regen Delay.
adjust Molt so that total Health lost determines bonus, rather than how low vs total. incentivizing protecting your Decoy rather than sacrificing it ASAP. acting like an actual battery/totem for Saryn.
[would not be against survivability Mods doing something for Molt, such as giving Molt 50 Armor and then each Survivability Mod at max doubling the respective attribute]

Toxic Lash just needs to apply Damage Reduction instead of a Blocking Bonus since the Blocking Bonus is really not that useful.
and do something (different) to your Guns, instead of being left out. most importantly, shouldn't be a selfish Ability and should give Allies some cool things too.

ofcourse Miasma needs to apply more CC. easiest option is to divide Damage per Tick by 2 and double the Tick count, each Tick applying CC.
 

1 hour ago, AKKILLA said:

Plus it makes sense

no, it never made sense. it affects one Enemy per hit, which is the opposite of a Contagion. it doesn't spread. akin to a snake bite, not a spreading disease.

27 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

-snip-

there is no abuse in a intended feature that when you cast Miasma, Molt is detonated and gives bonus Damage to Miasma if Molt is in Range.
now, i'd (usually) prefer Molt to not detonate (and be able to choose when) as i don't usually need the extra Damage but that's a different story.

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by taiiat

[HellEnforcer]

Just now, AKKILLA said:

Can the name go back to Contagion? I prefer it over Toxic Lash.

I knew it. That's why the name didn't sound familiar. The one I knew was Contagion.

Awww. Why did they change the name?

[IfritKajiTora]

5 minutes ago, taiiat said:

oxic Lash just needs to apply Damage Reduction instead of a Blocking Bonus since the Blocking Bonus is really not that useful.

I was thinking about it too. I just chosen health regen because for me Regenerating molt is a must have for her, and that could repair the problem.
But damage reduction would be good option too, to make just toxic lash more usable.
She uses toxin on her to devour some incoming bullets.

30% damage reduction affected by power Strength.

Edited March 24, 2016 by IfritKajiTora

[Xekrin]

My only real complaint about Saryn is that she is very weapon dependent, and not just that but specific damage on that weapon, but also it greatly helps if that weapon does aoe, also that weapon should probably be Ignis.

that is my only complaint.

I have used a few other weapons with Saryn, Azima works pretty good, Mutalist Cernos (now) works very well with her spores.  But her abilities being so keenly needy of very specific weapon types and very specific damage to make her produce damage is very distracting for me.

Most any other frame you can use their abilities and their weapons seperately, without one depending on another, with a few exceptions (not counting excal or valkyr).  But it seems to make the most out of Saryn, she requires the Ignis for some other very specific weapon and most definitely noone goes out with Saryn without their weapon(s) doing Gas damage to ensure proper toxin spore spreads.

My greatest suggestion for a Saryn buff would be any status proc gets carried by spores (and/or changed to toxin, if need be) and that her range isn't reduced based on how spores are spread.  Currently killing a target spreads them one range, popping another, and Lash yet another, making her very dependent on range to work her magic.  

You know what would be a great idea?  If her spores spread how Oberon's healing does, they just drift through the air and it simply takes longer to reach enemies further away, with a max range of course, or a duration on how long the spores remain in the air.  Okay, I'm sure someone will say it isn't a 'great' idea, but I like it.

Though I'm no expert on Saryn, when I started playing her I used my normal weapons with my normal loadout and immediately thought "What am I doing wrong?  Saryn kinda sucks."  Then I had to forma Ignis a few times, use a damage type that I rarely ever used with a weapon that went against my playstyle with every other frame and discovered she's pretty good so long as you follow the rules.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Xekrin
oberon related idea

[Brosephelon]

6 hours ago, IfritKajiTora said:

First you write that she need a buff to molt and toxic lash, but then that those Saryn threads don't make sense to you.....

The hell?

Miasma is doing good damage, but toxic lash and molt need something, damage is not everything.

I never said toxic lash needs a buff, its fine as is.  Those were my exact words I even put "fine" in quote marks just like that.  

Realistically I'm confused about the idea of all these "reworks" and redesigns.  Saryn doesn't need anything major, a minor tweak to make Molt scale with an immunity period like Iron Skin, Warding Halo, and Snow Globe is all thats really "needed" and even then as is without any changes shes already pretty damn strong.  

The entire concept that toxic lash is bad or undesirable really just makes me think people don't realize how Saryn/Spore function or how Toxic Lash works with Spore to stack and spread multiple large toxin procs.  The issue with Toxic Lash has NOTHING to do with its power, lack of power, or anything like that.  It has everything to do with Saryn not always being able to reliably get into melee, this is mostly because Molt can and will get 1shot removing her ability to "get in there" vs higher level enemies.  

Miasma does a lot of damage but it doesn't do "good damage".  More often than not using Miasma is just a waste either your spore popping is going to do the job just fine as is, or the enemies are so armor stacked that Miasma will literally do nothing.  This has more to do with how armor scales vs dot's and less with Miasma as an individual ability but Miasma can be modified to act as a bandaid to the situation but its not really needed as it only becomes an issue when you are doing lv80+ enemies without a group for CP stacking, this is a pretty small niche of content to be honest so it seems unrealistic that this niche is what everyone is talking about in terms of Saryn balance.

Its not just this thread, or your ideas but literally this entire forum is full of threads from people that clearly don't understand the mechanics behind Saryn's abilities or what the frame is even capable of.  Saryn is in a pretty good spot, shes rewards player skill there is no reason to have all these rework threads trying to make her a mindless spambot and thats what baffles me, all these rework threads are basically just saying "lets make Saryn cruise control mode".  

[RealPandemonium]

10 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

Can the name go back to Contagion? I prefer it over Toxic Lash.

In what way was Contagion practically better than TL?

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

5 hours ago, Brosephelon said:

 

Honestly, the only thing that she might need is a QoL change or a tweak to her ult. And that is to let Miasma stack corrosive procs. Atleast the accumulative amount of how many Spores are procced once popped. That's 75% of an enemy's armor value, possibly 100. Her toxin and viral procs will handle the health.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

2 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

In what way was Contagion practically better than TL?

I think he's just talking about it's name not its functionality.

[RealPandemonium]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx said:

I think he's just talking about it's name not its functionality.

Oh wow im dumb.  My bad lol.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

2 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Oh wow im dumb.  My bad lol.

lol np.