Nerf Ash

[Vanwolfster]

Good morning, afternoon, and goodnight everyone,

I'll keep this short and simple. Nerf Ash's fourth ability. The press 4 to win. The Blade Storm ability. The reason why it needs nerfing is it makes Ash players rely on that ability alone to complete missions of all types. Yes, the fourth ability is fun to use, but it is very annoying to play with. Ash becomes the steal killer and makes the missions not fun to play with groups since Ash literally makes the mission become a solo mission when stealing all the kills from the others. Remember Saryn's overpowered fourth ability in the past? Saryn's Miasma ability?

But the most annoying thing is, when Ash tries to kill the last enemy on any mission, it can prolong the kill instead of just finishing the enemy off in any other means. One time I literally needed to wait a minute for someone to finish their ability to take away one fifth of the enemy's life bar which anyone could have finished it off with a Tonker or whatever weapon people like using these days.

Now I am not saying to completely take way the fourth ability, more like let Ash's other abilities have more utility instead of having people rely on Ash's Blade Storm. If possible, put a cool down when using Blade Storm like a 30 or 40 second wait before using it again. 

Thank you for your time.

[s8kshUn8]

Pretty sure his 4th is getting a rework soon

[Vanwolfster]

1 minute ago, s8kshUn8 said:

Pretty sure his 4th is getting a rework soon

That's great! :D

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

His 4th is getting reworked.No worries.

[Drufo]

I have to agree that players tend to rely too much on that ability, but as someone said, in the future is coming a rework, so you just have to wait

[Shuuro]

Really hoping the rework gives us the interactivity that a lot of us Ash main wish for, without killing the skill entirely. It's really strong as it is now, easily killing enemies in sorties with the press of a single button, but my god it gets so boring so fast. I personally want to be able to feel as if I'M the one moving around at speeds that the eye can't keep up with, assassinating enemies left and right.

It's been so long since we got any word on Ash. At this point I'm just going to assume it's being pushed back until Ash gets his own Deluxe skin, and an entire rework along with it. Only time will tell I suppose.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

Ember can kill even faster with her fourth at least until enemies get over lvl 50-60 ish.  She's already been reworked too... but she might be next to nerf list after ash.

[(XBOX)SlohLane]

I disagree with the above comment on Draco I still get 500+ more kills than any ember that joins, ash's fourth is rediculous. Though

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

As someone who mains ash with 6 forma (plural: formae) on him, I would like to say that bladestorm gets boring. Here are some things I think should be taken into consideration for the Bladestorm nerf:

1. Make it so you can cancel it

I think this should be a thing because sometimes there's a squadmate that needs a revive and you won't be able to if you're Bladestorming lots of enemies.

2. Make it drainable

I just thought maybe this would be a better choice if DE decides to nerf Ash as a whole, as I saw others discussing this in different threads.

Feel free to add on to what I said because I feel like more/less could be done. 

Cheers

Edited March 27, 2016 by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY

[Littlerift]

Yeah, Ash is a pretty awfully designed frame; he's anti-fun for the rest of the team.

However, I wouldn't say he needs nerfing, he just needs his 4 replacing with something less bland. Loki needs nerfing, Ash needs changing.

[Tesseract7777]

34 minutes ago, Irorone said:

Saryn's actually even more powerful now just her bread and butter is now toxic lash/spore and not miasma

Back on topic Ash is fine none of his powers are troll enabling from what I've seen and while his other skills could use some sort of rework/buff ash is in a stable placement right now and ironically is the most "ninja" of the warframes when you consider each of his current powers.  Finally at OP, I wish I could say that this is the first time I've seen somebody say nerf 4 because noob frame, and "kill steal", but I've been playing this game too long to say that with a straight face.  Also in a game that is pretty much sonic the hedgehog, painkiller, and any non rng loot based example rolled into one it boggles the mind why ANYBODY would complain about having team members that excel at killing enemies at an accelerated pace with a class based ultimate when all loot is shared to each player (mission rewards or drops as long as you go to pick them up).

 

Indeed. The way the complaint in this thread is worded is ludicrous, and I think it's obvious from the tiny amount of upvotes that most people don't agree with the OP. 

 

In one way the OP is right. He is right that Bladestorm needs a serious rework. However, what it does not need is a nerf. Does it need to be more skill based and interactive? You betcha. Should we get rid of shaky cam and make you control Ash during BS? Yup. Should they do something about people being unable to target marked enemies that are currently being attacked by Ash? Probably. But from what we know they have been trying different things with BS, and are working on a rework right now. It's in the pipeline and has been being worked on by DE, not just talked about, for some time now. 

 

However, to just say it "needs a nerf", is utterly ludicrous. Even with Ash's ability to do finisher damage and bandaids like Steel Charge affecting BS, Ash's BS is incredibly outdated as a damage ability. In terms of damage he is hardly the best at dps at all... he is chosen for other reasons by people. Some because they like the hybrid of invisibility and damage + plus the cool things that some of his augments can do. But if you are picking Ash as your dps frame for high level play then you really like Ash, because there are much better choices anyway. 

 

Honestly no offense OP but you show how you misunderstand the issue by talking about "miasma nerf". Miasma was never a very good ability past early mid level enemies at best... she was used for quick room clearing, not because she was actually, you know, all that strong. Now she actually is. Ash's rework will probably be similar because right now his damage just isn't that amazing compared to a lot of other dps frames, even with finisher damage helping him scale. 

 

He doesn't need a nerf. He needs some of his older, clunkier abilities updated, and BS needs to be reworked to make it interactive and more skill based. However, nerf? No absolutely not. He needs a buff if anything to keep up with the game in its current state. He is a very old frame and has hardly been touched much in a long time. Except for occasional bandaids. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[LascarCapable]

Thread cleaned. Please don't start off topic arguments. If someone is acting obnoxiously, don't reply : hit the report button.

EDIT : also moving to Warframe and Ability feedback.

[blaes]

i dont mind ash players spamming bladestorm all they like. they can bladestorm 95% of the mission if they find it fun, i don't care.

the only thing that really grips me with ash is the target invincibility during bladestorm. i know they need it to avoid bugging the animation for the time being, but it needs to go as soon as they can patch it.

other than that, i don't care much.

[(PSN)horridhal]

2 minutes ago, blaes said:

the only thing that really grips me with ash is the target invincibility during bladestorm. i know they need it to avoid bugging the animation for the time being, but it needs to go as soon as they can patch it.

The enemies only become invulnerable when they are actively being attacked by one of the Clones or Ash.  If they are just marked by him, you can kill them prior to him assassinating them.  I do it constantly on Draco.

[blaes]

@horridal : i know, and that's still really annoying when you're using a slow weapon (bow, grenade launcher and the like).

[(PSN)horridhal]

Just now, blaes said:

@horridal : i know, and that's still really annoying when you're using a slow weapon (bow, grenade launcher and the like).

It is the same as when someone stealth assassinates any target, though.  Ash simply does it automatically where other frames have to sneak up and use the assassinate feature.  It isn't his Bladestorm making the enemies invulnerable, though, just the stealth finish mechanic.

[-Temp0-]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Eluminary said:

Ember can kill even faster with her fourth at least until enemies get over lvl 50-60 ish.  She's already been reworked too... but she might be next to nerf list after ash.

Yeah she can kill... infested lol. No armor, no nothing, and 2-3 energy per sec with no way to replenish it basically.  

[StealthDragoon]

I proposed a Bladestorm rework over here -> https://forums.warframe.com/topic/626874-ash-bladestorm-reworked/

Whatever happens in the end, I know it will be alright.

[Defion]

Ash does not need a nerf as pve wise.

Also i believe DE said Ash 4th rework would be more like excal old 4th with the 360 knives trow thing....

I really start hating on people shouting nerf at Ash because they either cant play him right or they team up with people not using Ash 4th right.

I often use Ash 4th to clear enemys around a fallen tenno so teammates can revive, or when a teammate is getting low on health I swoop in so he can make a safe heal.

And I love the way the animation works, yes its buggy as hell, yes it will make you hate it when you fall through the floor for the 60x time in 1 mission. But honestly you get used to it.

PS. Nerf the acc of the guy shouting nerf, his acc is to OP (yes thats how nerf shouts sound like). Oh and I forgot about that 1 guy that asked for energy pads to get nerfed because they were so freaking OP... yeah your like that in my eyes. DE rework of Ash 4th will ruinen Ash for me if they keep with the old excal 4th idea.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Defion

[Khormalys]

37 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Yeah she can kill... infested lol. No armor, no nothing, and 2-3 energy per sec with no way to replenish it basically.  

I'm gonna give you a little tip when modding ember go with max efficiency, don't use blind rage because being able to spam accelerant will give you a lot more damage than a high power strength Wof.

Back to the topic there's no need to nerf BS, because while the synergy with trickery and the combo counter is awesome and allow it to scale pretty well, at the end of the day it is still a targeted ability not an aoe nuke

Edited March 27, 2016 by khydhy

[Serafim_94]

I don't like Ash for one specific situation - when he tries to bladestorm Ancient Disruptor. At this point you can safely go and make tea - by the time you'll be back, animation will hopefuly finish and you'll be able to finally kill the #@*&$@.

[-QueenUnicorn-]

How aboot suffering through the once in a while chance that you run into a Ash and wait for the ability change cause right now it is his only Viable ability all the other ones suck. 

[ograzzt]

3 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

I don't like Ash for one specific situation - when he tries to bladestorm Ancient Disruptor. At this point you can safely go and make tea - by the time you'll be back, animation will hopefuly finish and you'll be able to finally kill the #@*&$@.

There is a really simple solution - don't bring Ash on high level infested missions.

[Magnulast]

I would like to say, nerf ash's annoyance meter.

If he wasn't as intrusive, or annoying to other players, I wouldn't care.

But saryn press 4 to win was really annoying, streamlining all the enemies in 2 seconds.("skill")

Ash is far FAR FAR FAR WORSE, he does kill, but he basically hops around enimies and prevents ANY kind of damage when he is attacking the enemy.("trolling public skill")

If anything, he should kill one target at a time, like Blade storm max enemy count 3, or force ash to kill enemies one at a time.

The reason why I say this is because this really annoys me when a Ash comes and uses 4 all the time at draco, or any exterminate.

Also a ASH screwed over me in a radiation survival because he kept on killing my enemies when I was a saryn, meaning, if ANY ally was at my range, they would die.

I was keeping a steady combo, alone till a Ash thinks he makes things "fun." and proceeds to let me die because he can't stop spaming his 4 or he'll die.

This is why we need to remove the 25eng or less bladestorm combo, or make it less useful so people don't rely on EV trinities to use cloak+bladestorm.

[(PSN)horridhal]

3 minutes ago, Magnulast said:

Ash is far FAR FAR FAR WORSE, he does kill, but he basically hops around enimies and prevents ANY kind of damage when he is attacking the enemy.("trolling public skill")

The only time enemies are invulnerable is during Stealth kill animations, meaning when he or one of the clones is actively attacking said enemy.  If the enemy is just marked, you can still kill it before the Bladestorm hits it.