Ash Rework (Straw poll)

[AKKILLA]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Nah man, i refer to second hand information here, something someone mentioned to be something (probably) steve said...simply bladestorm as it is, wo ash. How i play is using melee (shadow debt brought it to where you want his ult anyways) to kill close targets and i fire bladestorm after i run outa targets, somewhere far away, ideally hitting a spawned wave... BS is strong but essecially slow and has a max number of targets so the most efficient way of using it is weapon gameplay paired with bs as ranged tool as this range and free targeting is the most effective aspect it has. It doesn't have the melee scaling it should have (if only the berserker fix!) But it adds a good buff to melee by adding stealth and combos. Simultaneous blastorming and fighting would simply remove the boundary this kind of playstyle has and therefore add massive utility to him, with freedom to choose where you need the hail to destroy your targets.

 

No idea if that's actually what they have in planing but this would be absolutely perfect for him.

I really want to understand Your interpretation but....

You didnt provide any detail or facts to how this idea You say offers interactivity?

Yes I agree if Bladestorms current iteration would allow Berserker (Plus more GORE) the current Bladestorm DPS would finish these animations quicker but we still have the same problem.

VOMIT CAM SPAM

Dont get Me wrong Bladestorm is an awesome ability and has sooo much potential to be Perfect but the None Control+Vomit Cam+Terrible Animations+No Mod Scaling Implementaton makes Bladestorm something frustrating and disappointing but some what bareable.

Why do people support Bladestorm? It works, in a Bad way tho... It does its job in a Bad mood kinda, like forcing a Lazy kid to clean the house in a Bad mood.

BTW You mentioned that it would be a good buff by adding Stealth and Melee combos?

Ok I will lay out a perfect example here. I want to know how the current Bladestorm allows for Stealth when this happens

As You see here Ash is invisible Via Smoke Screen and is Bladestorming enemies Undetected and still I wasnt able to achieve the STEALTH AFFINITY MULTIPLIER BONUS but I can achieve the Mission Bonus? How does that make sense if I casted it undetected? I can provide more proof as I have run Stealth runs with Ash and casted Bladestorm while in Smoke Screen and Undetected and cleared a whole area and didnt detect one enemy but still didnt achieve the Multiplier.

I mean Logically Ash is a Stealth Frame right?

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ash

Ash is a fast, maneuverable Warframe that possesses a high degree of survivability in the field. Fleet movement complements deadly tools of assassination, making Ash a perfect balance between KILLING potency and STEALTH.

I prefer to use links with facts to prove points because I use this as my research tools to making reworks. I dont just sit and make this fantasy up in my mind. I try to do some research and study the ability and its factors to implement My concept of the ability in my interpretation all while keeping its original essence.

I dont simply just make a rework and change the Warframes ability entirely by changing the abilities name and adding a totally different mechanic.

A stance Bladestorm is basically the same thing we have now except it is intended for the Player to do the killing manually. How can You not see the benefits and how great this can be?

You tag enemies with shurikens and leave DEATH MARKS via Slash/DoT bleed procs. You can do this to several enemies and the teleport is over rided by each last casted shuriken.

To explain it better You cast a shuriken in Bladestorm Ash+2 Clones shooting 1 larger shuriken each (3 total) these shurikens leave a Bleed DoT on enemies, You can keep casting shurikens to mark several enemies and when You cast teleport Ash teleports to the last enemy he tagged with shuriken after that you cant still teleport to any other enemies who still suffer the bleed proc, the tags will over ride each other by the last enemy tagged.

This does serve a slightly similar mechanic to Saryn+Excalibur+Valkyr soo ultimately it has its own identity just sharing small details from frames here and there just with Ashs identity.

This is a well though out concept and took a while to come up with. Gotta give it some credit. I forget this community dont even give DE respect soo I aint $hit Heck I remember the Hate DE got when Ash Prime leaked. Everyone was down talking now everyone Loves him. Heck I think he looks Fabulous

[BlizzardBlade]

A lot of abilities in Warframe are non - player interactive , Ash's is a little as it makes the player wait a bit and see kill animations compared to something like Oberon's 4. You seem to talk about Ash glitchly  camera views , I rarely seen anything like that and even if I do it's literally half a second so it never bothers me. A lot of abbilties are unplayer interactive , i think his bladestorm is ok for now , your other topic sounds like Ash would have to walk to enemies one at a time to do bladestorm , sounds really slow.

[Trichouette]

We already got confirmation that this ability is geting reworked. It probably takes longer than it should but there are other warframe that can't be played at all and need a rework before ash can get his.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Bladestorm without ash, not that hard to understand. A fireable ult in the same execution as it is, only without ash participating. 3 clones that hail a area and add to your combo counter and inject stealth trough finishers. Simultsneous ranged AE+ close combat. That's what this idea/ probably DE's plan comes down to. And nah man, a stance is not the same as a AE ability that is able to be fired on the opposite side of the map. It needs you to be in close range all of the time, what's definitly nothing but a downgrade to the current possibilitys.

 

And no offense but his helmet still looks like sh*t. Peoole just got used to the strange proportions his body has to the old helmets.

Edited March 17, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[AKKILLA]

33 minutes ago, Nox-Lamina said:

Can't we do better than a stance? We already have 3 melee stance ultimates, why make a fourth?

Why embrace more of the stealth side of Ash and make the ultimate a transformation and change his skills to incap/blind rather than kill. So it'd be activate a drain were Ash turns into smoke and gets a base chance of bullets passing through him. Shuriken becomes a fan of shurikens that immobilize enemies, Smoke bomb becomes an actual smoke bomb to be tossed at enemies which blinds them, and teleport becomes free aim.

Maybe a conditional ult which actually utilizes the wrist blades can be created (Hold 4 while in transformed mode after doing X task) 

Oh God not another one. 

I did Mention in my rework You will be utilizing Ashs Hidden Blades. Thats the whole Point to the Stance Ultimate My man. To allow Freedom, allow Ash players to do the Bladestorm Yourself.

Faster and more raw damage clearing each single enemy in an instant, cant imagine it? refer back to the Ninja Gaiden video I posted 

 

If You consider this slow then Your crazy. I see Ryun may not teleport as far as Ash does but remember Ninja Gaiden is a Triple A one player Console game. Warframe is a MMO RPG Online, but Ash and Ryu Hayabusa share a great similarity in here and thats Bladestorm and Ultimate Technique

[BlizzardBlade]

"Walk" was a simplified word for it since i didn't want to type out the entire rework you wrote up putting in every single detail. "Walk" as in bladestorm but you have to do more than press 4 and you have to travel to enemies to kill to them manually. I don't think it is necessary due to many other abilities being non-player interactive , maybe a toggle would be nice so you don't get locked in maybe.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

Can ash get an energy buff cause running around throwing Shuriken with a draining stance ultimate and then casting teleport sounds like a bit much on a frame with the lowest energy pool in the game btw. Free casts wouldn't really be valanced so this seems like the only path to take.

Not to mention that you'd have the permanent need to teleport to even keep it running effectively...

What wouldn't rly solve the visual issue?...

[AKKILLA]

13 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

We already got confirmation that this ability is geting reworked. It probably takes longer than it should but there are other warframe that can't be played at all and need a rework before ash can get his.

Yeah may I see when they confirmed recently its in the works?

Because if I recall the last time they mentioned it was here

Streamed live on Sep 18, 2015 Time stamp (34:30)

Published on Oct 14, 2015 Time Stamp (51:50)

There it is, and this was months ago last year and they kinda just ignored it ever since soo I think they dont intend on reworking it no time soon. I prefer this current iteration as long as they dnt rework it to ruin it because a Ninja Rumbler sounds disappointing IMO

 

[Doom_Bunny]

You know I was going to assume this was a constructive thread with a horrible title (why would you put "cancerous" in your title). So far it's just OP degrading other people's ideas and pushing for their own.

5 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

There it is, and this was months ago last year and they kinda just ignored it ever since soo I think they dont intend on reworking it no time soon. I prefer this current iteration as long as they dnt rework it to ruin it because a Ninja Rumbler sounds disappointing IMO

It's not like they have ignored it, more like that frame reworks are on the back burner as there is much more work to be done besides just one frame.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Postal_pat

[AKKILLA]

10 minutes ago, BlizzardBlade said:

"Walk" was a simplified word for it since i didn't want to type out the entire rework you wrote up putting in every single detail. "Walk" as in bladestorm but you have to do more than press 4 and you have to travel to enemies to kill to them manually. I don't think it is necessary due to many other abilities being non-player interactive , maybe a toggle would be nice so you don't get locked in maybe.

I explained that using Shuriken will allow you to teleport to enemies who are bleeding by the DoT it provides. Also Smoke Screens You leave behind to can teleported to if enemies are inside stunned by the smoke. Teleport in Bladestorm can be free-aimed as well, like a shorter version basically a dash teleport which is fast and deletes the front flip animation we dont need. But My intentions are to use 1 alot (Shuriken) to Mark enemies for Death then teleport to them to get across the room faster feel me?

Thats the idea, im not gonna take away something without offering something in return. A manual Bladestorm will lose the Radial Nuke per say but will compensate for being active longer and allowing freedom with the ability to kill more then 18 enemies and being stuck in unwanted animations and use Your other abilities more while in Bladestorm.

This Stance will promote the use of every other ability Ash offers and thats the problem with most Ash Players.

You only press 4 all day, very few Ash players really use smoke screen or shuriken or teleport, this idea promotes that

[Trichouette]

22 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Yeah may I see when they confirmed recently its in the works?

Because if I recall the last time they mentioned it was here

 

It was confirmed by steve on twitter, but indeed it was "months ago".

Anyway it always takes "months" for them to fix anything. Even mods need to wait forever just to be balanced...

As long as something doesn't "break" the game or reduce the RNG, it'll take time to get fixed.

Ash's ult is broken in every way but they implemented nullifiers so... Whatever.

On the other hand, mag can't be played unless against corpus and she cheeses all corpus sorties. That's probably a bigger threat to the game.

[AKKILLA]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

Can ash get an energy buff cause running around throwing Shuriken with a draining stance ultimate and then casting teleport sounds like a bit much on a frame with the lowest energy pool in the game btw. Free casts wouldn't really be balanced so this seems like the only path to take.

Im sure if this idea was implemented ppl are only gonna cry how OP it is instead of how bad it is when You see how it works. 

Ofcoarse if we get more energy that means Bladestorm will be active Forever which is what most of these guys secretly Fear, another Infinite Stance Ultimate, and a World of Noobs and Ash Fans in there missions running Perma Bladestorms.

Thats My analysis of whats going on here in the mist, since i see ppl here liking each others comments, some ppl here seem to be working as a team of Trump supporters to hate on My rally lol oh well

Me against the world, I guess Ill press 4 to slay all of You with Cancer lol jk I Love all of You kids. You could be My children. Now go on and Spam Your cancer in Draco fellas

[Stratego89]

I agree that Bladestorm needs a rework. I don't consider it in any way cancerous though.

Also- nothing in this game should be said to be changed to "exalted blade style". Exalted blade is bad. Horrible. It has to change. Period. People need to stop looking at it as a good thing that other things should mimic and be compared to- that just makes the issue even worse. People need to accept it is the most overpowered thing in the entire game and needs to be changed instead of suggesting more stuff to be like it.

[VampirePirate]

Ash's 4th has always been a broken thing.  Upon the many times it has been fix, it still remains broken.  Its animation seemed to be much better in the distant past, but as they worked on it, it became worse.  I have no idea why.

[Xarathos_The_Judge]

Oh great, another one of these...only with more ad hominems.  Does Bladestorm need changes?  Yes.  It still suffers from a few bugs and suffers from a few glaring weaknesses.  More varied animations would be a decent start.  Does it need to be another Exalted Blade clone?  Absolutely not.  It does what it is designed to do, ruin everyone's day in that general area.  Your changes would slow Ash down and hinder the utility of the rest of his kit.  Bladestorm's damage already scales better than other damage abilities due to it's finisher damage.  It is unnecessary to sacrifice the utility Bladestorm offers to "buff" that damage output, especially for a clone of a playstyle many (including myself) find very, very boring.

[Magnulast]

Just now, Xarathos_The_Judge said:

Oh great, another one of these...only with more ad hominems.  Does Bladestorm need changes?  Yes.  It still suffers from a few bugs and suffers from a few glaring weaknesses.  More varied animations would be a decent start.  Does it need to be another Exalted Blade clone?  Absolutely not.  It does what it is designed to do, ruin everyone's day in that general area.  Your changes would slow Ash down and hinder the utility of the rest of his kit.  Bladestorm's damage already scales better than other damage abilities due to it's finisher damage.  It is unnecessary to sacrifice the utility Bladestorm offers to "buff" that damage output, especially for a clone of a playstyle many (including myself) find very, very boring.

Ash's problem is his 4th ability and it's effectiveness VS the rest of his kit.

His 4th lasts too long, and honestly, it's soo annoying to me. ruins all my blood rush combos doesn't help the rest of the squad or can't help until after his bladestorm is complete.

In other words, he's a annoying, in both ways, cheeses kills more than valkyr's hysteria with the least effort possible. And ruins my day by that dumb change to prevent other players doing damage on his enemy he is attacking.

The rest of his kit is just bad at times, none of the abilties scale, (Excluding smokescreen, which is invis). 

His kit is a problem it's completely unbalanced, unlike loki.

[Xarathos_The_Judge]

4 minutes ago, Magnulast said:

Ash's problem is his 4th ability and it's effectiveness VS the rest of his kit.

His 4th lasts too long, and honestly, it's soo annoying to me. ruins all my blood rush combos doesn't help the rest of the squad or can't help until after his bladestorm is complete.

In other words, he's a annoying, in both ways, cheeses kills more than valkyr's hysteria with the least effort possible. And ruins my day by that dumb change to prevent other players doing damage on his enemy he is attacking.

The rest of his kit is just bad at times, none of the abilties scale, (Excluding smokescreen, which is invis). 

His kit is a problem it's completely unbalanced, unlike loki.

As far as the length of the ability is concerned, this could be fixed by making the ability cancelable, which many have pointed out.  I'd also argue that killing everyone within a given area is helping the rest of the squad (in most cases).

Your complaint of cheesing kills seems like it is more a problem of many players who choose to spam abilities, and by a side effect that is best removed.  Of course, I did mention "a few glaring weaknesses".  This is one.

As for the scaling, Shuriken is a cheap damaging one ability.  Considering the utility it offers, it seems kind of pointless to complain about its scaling or lack thereof.  You already admitted smokescreen scales.  Teleport also has the abilities to open enemies up for finishers, to say nothing of the extra mobility it offers.

His problem is not his kit.  While both Ash and Loki might be considered "stealth" frames, they have two entirely different roles on the field.  Loki's role is subterfuge and few would argue how well he can accomplish that goal in the right hands.  On the other hand, Ash's role is assassination.  Few frames can even compete with Ash when it comes to eliminating most high-priority targets.  The problem is that many players don't quite grasp this, and become convinced that spamming Bladestorm is the only effective way to play Ash.  Of course the whole "edginess" factor that many players attribute to him likely only compounds this issue.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, AKKILLA said:

I explained that using Shuriken will allow you to teleport to enemies who are bleeding by the DoT it provides. Also Smoke Screens You leave behind to can teleported to if enemies are inside stunned by the smoke. Teleport in Bladestorm can be free-aimed as well, like a shorter version basically a dash teleport which is fast and deletes the front flip animation we dont need. But My intentions are to use 1 alot (Shuriken) to Mark enemies for Death then teleport to them to get across the room faster feel me?

Thats the idea, im not gonna take away something without offering something in return. A manual Bladestorm will lose the Radial Nuke per say but will compensate for being active longer and allowing freedom with the ability to kill more then 18 enemies and being stuck in unwanted animations and use Your other abilities more while in Bladestorm.

This Stance will promote the use of every other ability Ash offers and thats the problem with most Ash Players.

You only press 4 all day, very few Ash players really use smoke screen or shuriken or teleport, this idea promotes that

And you want to force them onto them instead of making them desireable to use...

Irony

Great concept 10/10

/Irony

 

Would people spam BS if shuriken would do equal/higher damage?

Would people use smokebomb if you'd get a permanent 4x multiplier in it?

Would people use a free aim teleport that adds mobility and auto-finishes targets in your range?

Would you suffer from the animations if they'd simply dissapear?

Would BS be in conflict with melee if there wasn't this animation?

Thers a lotta ways to "fix" ash and this threat is among the worse.

 

 

 

[Magnulast]

Just now, Xarathos_The_Judge said:

As far as the length of the ability is concerned, this could be fixed by making the ability cancelable, which many have pointed out.  I'd also argue that killing everyone within a given area is helping the rest of the squad (in most cases).

Your complaint of cheesing kills seems like it is more a problem of many players who choose to spam abilities, and by a side effect that is best removed.  Of course, I did mention "a few glaring weaknesses".  This is one.

As for the scaling, Shuriken is a cheap damaging one ability.  Considering the utility it offers, it seems kind of pointless to complain about its scaling or lack thereof.  You already admitted smokescreen scales.  Teleport also has the abilities to open enemies up for finishers, to say nothing of the extra mobility it offers.

His problem is not his kit.  While both Ash and Loki might be considered "stealth" frames, they have two entirely different roles on the field.  Loki's role is subterfuge and few would argue how well he can accomplish that goal in the right hands.  On the other hand, Ash's role is assassination.  Few frames can even compete with Ash when it comes to eliminating most high-priority targets.  The problem is that many players don't quite grasp this, and become convinced that spamming Bladestorm is the only effective way to play Ash.  Of course the whole "edginess" factor that many players attribute to him likely only compounds this issue.

The problem is the effectiveness, I know you did mention glaring weaknesses.

It's the usefullness of the kit. Shuriken is cheap, and effective damage, but no-one uses it because bladestorm kills all regardless.

Teleport? It does effectively open each enemy to finishers, however how many people use it? not many.

Smokescreen? Completely copy cat of invis...

Bladestorm press 4 to win.

People judge the effectiveness, and max out for the most damage. So they ignore Shuriken, and teleport to save energy, and use smokescreen for a buff.

This is why I hate all Mesa Peacemaker mobile posts, people don't understand how to use her.

Again, the major problem is the use of bladestorm, not how it functions, but it's use. It's used in abusive farming and Cheesing high level survivals. 

Ash is a assasination frame, not a press 4 to kill hordes winner.

Anyway, regarding ash's kit, it feels less effective to use bladestorm rather than the rest of his abilties, and yes, I am referring to the mainstream.

The biggest problem in warframe is people using frames as tools DE did not intend to do, ash was not designed to farm focus nor was it designed to be a horde killer.

Nova is the horde killer. Mesa is a lighter version of Excal, 

[AKKILLA]

5 minutes ago, Xarathos_The_Judge said:

His problem is not his kit.  While both Ash and Loki might be considered "stealth" frames, they have two entirely different roles on the field.  Loki's role is SUBTERFUGE and few would argue how well he can accomplish that goal in the right hands.  On the other hand, Ash's role is assassination. 

Loki's role is Subterfuge? lol

Distraction and subterfuge become lethal weapons with Ash Prime. Featuring altered mod polarities for greater customization.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ash

This is copy and pasted from Warframe wikia on Ash Primes page and I see it says Distraction and Subterfuge become lethal weapons with Ash Prime, maybe your info is incorrect? Idk I just go by the concepts Warframe offers us.

We all know Ashs role and Lokis role, that doesnt mean Ash shouldnt be modded and played differently.

Are You one of those who claims Ash shouldnt be used for Stealth and built for Smoke Screen? If so then I cant take Your response serious because You are ignoring the fact he can be built for Smoke Screen and still be viable, and if Your reply is why if Arcane Trickery+Shadow Step then You are being ignorant.

Nova can be built for Slow and Speed builds, as Trinity can be built for EV and Bless, Excal can be built for other then Exalted Blade and all frames can be maximized in different ways to achieve a slightly different effect and playstyle 

[AKKILLA]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And you want to force them onto them instead of making them desireable to use...

Irony

Great concept 10/10

/Irony

 

Would people spam BS if shuriken would do equal/higher damage?

Would people use smokebomb if you'd get a permanent 4x multiplier in it?

Would people use a free aim teleport that adds mobility and auto-finishes targets in your range?

Would you suffer from the animations if they'd simply dissapear?

Would BS be in conflict with melee if there wasn't this animation?

Thers a lotta ways to "fix" ash and this threat is among the worse.

Im tryna understand what you are getting at. I sense sarcasm tho tbh 

[AKKILLA]

16 minutes ago, Xarathos_The_Judge said:

 Ash's role is assassination.  Few frames can even compete with Ash when it comes to eliminating most high-priority targets.  The problem is that many players don't quite grasp this, and become convinced that spamming Bladestorm is the only effective way to play Ash.  Of course the whole "edginess" factor that many players attribute to him likely only compounds this issue.

Ashs role as an Assassin should allow him to Assassinate Bosses most efficiently then any frames but I press 4 on a Boss and if no enemies are in the area I just do one animation and return back to normal. 

However a Stance Bladestorm will allow You to ASSASSINATE these enemies and isolate them one by one with higher damage.

PS. Try using Bladestorm to assasinate bosses or high level enemies like sortie Juggernauts, heck try to Bladestorm the pesky critters that drop Ash parts (GRINEER MANICS) You cant even Bladestorm them did You know this? Yeah an assassination ability that cant target certain enemies and cant Assassinate Bosses correctly needs to be fixed

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by AKKILLA

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

6 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Im tryna understand what you are getting at. I sense sarcasm tho tbh 

Thers ways and means to up ashs performance without replacing it but rather making it more desireable to use.

 

You might wanna be more open mindet yourself.

[AKKILLA]

51 minutes ago, Xarathos_The_Judge said:

Oh great, another one of these...only with more ad hominems.  Does Bladestorm need changes?  Yes.  It still suffers from a few bugs and suffers from a few glaring weaknesses.  More varied animations would be a decent start.  Does it need to be another Exalted Blade clone?  Absolutely not.  It does what it is designed to do, ruin everyone's day in that general area.  Your changes would slow Ash down and hinder the utility of the rest of his kit.  Bladestorm's damage already scales better than other damage abilities due to it's finisher damage.  It is unnecessary to sacrifice the utility Bladestorm offers to "buff" that damage output, especially for a clone of a playstyle many (including myself) find very, very boring.

Utility? Wait are You serious?

What utility? He only kills and ruins others kills as another guy here said. BTW You are completely wrong My thread offers way more utility then what Ashs kit offers now which is NO UTILITY WHAT SO EVER

Smoke Screen only cloaks ash with smoke shadow it provides a buff but smoke screen in my rework is an actual Smoke Screen, and smoke screen+teleports

Shuriken +Teleport provides synergy and utility to get to enemies faster as You said it will slow ash down, You sound like You just prefer to be lazy and press 4.

Thats You idea, not a great one but its what Bladestorm does currentl which is provide a cancerous animation, why else You think DE made Arcane Trickery?

To Mask there Mistake with Bladestorm and cover up the short duration smoke screen provides, so Ash players created a pure Greedy meta of Bladestorm spam which is what DE doesnt want.

Now You prefer a Ninja Rumblers Clone or a Bladestorm Stance which keeps Ash in the Bladestorm action?

Yes (DE)Steve mentioned this several times about if they do rework Ash, it will be a Ninja Rumblesr basically, soo you prefer them copy paste a bad concept that takes ash away from the action instead of a concept that keeps ash in the bladestorm and allows you to use other abilities while in it?

[AKKILLA]

20 minutes ago, Magnulast said:

Nova is the horde killer. Mesa is a lighter version of Excal, 

If DE didnt intend to make Ashs Bladestorm a Horde Killer they woulda Made Bladestorm a Teleport with one shot kill attached.

They did allow Bladestorm to kill 18 enemies maxed rank, and added 2 clones later to help speed up with killing 18 enemies fast and efficiently.

I believe Your concept is wrong, Bladestorm in its current iteration is suppose to kill Hordes. Your interpretation may not but in game its meant to do what you said it shouldnt