The Twin Kohmak: Literally just one Kohmak with twice the bullets [in it's clip*]...

[SeriousSmith]

I think that title is pretty self explanatory. 

So the Twin Kohmak came out today. The original Kohmak was a Grineer-manufactured, handheld machine shotgun and the baby brother of the popular Kohm Assault Shotgun (also manufactured by the Grineer). When I found out they released an Akimbo version of the Kohmak, I was a little excited. When I got home from school, I booted up my PC and launched the game and bought the Twin Kohmaks when I logged in.

Then I compared their stats to the original Kohmak... Yeah...

Seriously???

What exactly is different about the Twin Kohmak from the singular Kohmak, other than the ammo capacity? The weapon could've had extra damage, possibly something else to make it unique like increased critical chance and damage, increased status chance or possibly a higher fire rate. But no; it's basically just one Kohmak disguised as two, Essentially, you're paying 225 Platinum, or tens of thousands of credits on a blueprint as well as hard-earned resources to obtain what is by-in-large a skin for the original Kohmak. Unless this weapon get's buffed in a future patch, I highly recommend skipping this one guys...

-SeriousSmith

As an addendum; DE? Unless you're going to make more Vazarin (D) Polarity mods for secondaries, can you please stop giving Vazarin polarities to side arms where they don't make any sense? Weapons with high status chance or weapons with Cold-based elemental damage types (I say this because Deep Freeze, the Cold mod for side arms, is literally one of two Vazarin mods that can be put on all side arms) make sense, but a weapon like the Kohmak and Twin Kohmak doesn't make any sense, seeing as how they only have a 10% status chance.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Serious_Smith92

[SeriousSmith]

To further back up my argument that the Twin Kohmak is kind of a waste of time in its current state, I went ahead and did comparisons of some other Akimbo weapons that I own.

As you can see, there are considerable difference between the singular versions and Akmibo versions. While the Akimbo versions have increased ammo capacity and fire rate, singular weapons had better reload speeds and accuracy. Some weapons like the Akimbo Maguns and Akimbo Lex had superior status chance and critical stats than the singular. 

The Twin Kohmak, has none of that. Like I said: It's just one Kohmak disguised as two. I recommend you don't botherwith it, unless it gets a buff fairly soon.

[Evan-0-matic]

Wow... That's such a bad and frankly ridiculous design decision I can't help but laugh! And be horrified at the same time, DE. 

 

The gun isn't anything special to begin with (stat wise) and doubling its damage (as holding two guns of the same type would do!!!) wouldn't be OP in the least. They wouldn't even have to go that far to make it worth building/ buying. 

 

Please buff, and then I'll keep it. Until then it's mastery fodder. And I hate that term. 

[----Dante----]

nvm.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Dante123pl

[Paradoxbomb]

I don't have these guns yet so I can't say much about them, but do they perhaps fire two shots at once similar to the Twin Grakatas? If that's the case they could technically have double the fire and just not show it on the UI. If not, then I will agree that it should fire faster or fire multiple rounds at once to compensate.

Other than the fire rate though, you could argue that the lack of increased reload speed and decreased reload time in exchange for the doubled magazine is something of a buff for the Twin Kohmak, compared to other akimbo weapons.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Paradoxbomb

[DarcnyssWolfe]

I'd love if it got a bit of a status buff, +5% more crit would be nice as well.

All and all this is disappointing, hopefully its just a place holder for player suggestions as they couldn't decide what to do to it. Wishful thinking =\

[SeriousSmith]

26 minutes ago, Paradoxbomb said:

I don't have these guns yet so I can't say much about them, but do they perhaps fire two shots at once similar to the Twin Grakatas? If that's the case they could technically have double the fire and just not show it on the UI. If not, then I will agree that it should fire faster or fire multiple rounds at once to compensate.

Other than the fire rate though, you could argue that the lack of increased reload speed and decreased reload time in exchange for the doubled magazine is something of a buff for the Twin Kohmak, compared to other akimbo weapons.

You have a valid point there Paradoxbomb. No dip in reload speed while having extra ammo for an Akimbo weapon is a positive, indeed. However, this still does not change the fact that the weapon is functionally the same weapon as the singular Kohmak. I did some play testing, and for the most part, the base damage output was the exact same as each other. I used a base Kohmak and my unranked, base Twin Kohmaks. I used Excalibur as my frame; I originally had Mesa equipped, but I had to change her because her pistol damage passive would've skewed my test results. 

I've gone up against a Level 125 Ancient Healer. First, the singular Kohmak:

As you see, I was mostly getting ticks of 17 damage.

Now, the Twin Kohmaks:

Aside from very random ticks of 35 (depending on where my shot landed, no doubt), I was mostly getting ticks of 17 damage. 

See what I mean? Once again, not suffering a slow reload is terrific for an Akimbo weapon, but ultimately, the ends just don't justify the means for me; these weapons are practically the same when it comes to their damage output...

Edited April 30, 2016 by Serious_Smith92

[SeriousSmith]

Just now, DarcnyssWolfe said:

I'd love if it got a bit of a status buff, +5% more crit would be nice as well.

All and all this is disappointing, hopefully its just a place holder for player suggestions as they couldn't decide what to do to it. Wishful thinking =\

That's a possibility DarcnyssWolfe; perhaps they are in the midst of trying to figure out what bonuses to give the Twin Kohmaks... 

However, if that is truly the case, then why even release the weapon in the first place? Why give us a glorified Early Access gun? 

[DarcnyssWolfe]

Just now, Serious_Smith92 said:

That's a possibility DarcnyssWolfe; perhaps they are in the midst of trying to figure out what bonuses to give the Twin Kohmaks... 

However, if that is truly the case, then why even release the weapon in the first place? Why give us a glorified Early Access gun? 

As said, to get suggestions from players how the weapon should be. Again this is wishful thinking, and there are better ways of doing so, just concerned as to why they would do this.

[Rambit23Z]

I spent a Forma to build one, rank it and sell it for mastery.

And now this comes out. The Kohmak series is going to cost me a total of 4 Forma. ;_;

[Rambit23Z]

Spoiler

You have my thanks, all of them.

[SeriousSmith]

1 minute ago, Rambit23Z said:

  Hide contents

You have my thanks, all of them.

No problem dude. You may have gotten burned, but I didn't want you to stay burnt. ;)

[(PSN)Zashukitsune]

At first glance, my brain said "of course it just has twice the ammo, it's just two guns" then I realized that such logic makes perfect sense in reality,but it's not why akimbo weapons exist in any game ever.

At the very least, in games, we expect double fire rate and magazine size from akimbo weapons...getting double ammo but not double fire rate just means it takes longer to get through a clip...an upgrade, sure, but...don't we use mods to get similar silly additions?

[SeriousSmith]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Zashukitsune said:

At first glance, my brain said "of course it just has twice the ammo, it's just two guns" then I realized that such logic makes perfect sense in reality,but it's not why akimbo weapons exist in any game ever.

At the very least, in games, we expect double fire rate and magazine size from akimbo weapons...getting double ammo but not double fire rate just means it takes longer to get through a clip...an upgrade, sure, but...don't we use mods to get similar silly additions?

I can add Slip Magazine, Tainted Clip and Ice Storm (the cold mod with the Magazine Increase), and my Kohmak's magazine in boosted to 96 bullets. I gain a tiny bit of Cold damage, but I ultimately have the same puny little base weapon...

[Paradoxbomb]

1 hour ago, Serious_Smith92 said:

-snip-

I'll have to take your word for it for now. Whether the lack of multishot is a bug, oversight, or intentional choice, it really should be a feature of the guns and hopefully added/fixed soon. otherwise, I don't think it needs any other statistical improvements over the original (but that's just me).

[(PSN)DBR87]

Well, technically since you spend less time reloading, your DPS would be higher on Twin Komhak. However, it is very strange why at base they don't have increased fire rate and double the mag capacity with the trade off being lower accuracy and a longer reload. But considering Bronco  Prime and AkBronco Prime, I am glad to see they have the same damage. If anything, it would of been cool to give them a different damage spread. Maybe drop some of the base Impact or more Puncture. Or less slash for more Puncture.

On paper, it is an improvement. There is no denying that. However, it's a lazy upgrade.

[shyguyk]

Well, you can keep firing at the max rate for a longer time.

But yea, needs some differences.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Actually i think TC and some others might be missing the point.

In the beggining of wf the dual versions used to be straight upgrades, which due to powercreep claims and whatnot, which I agree, changed.

With the addition of the twin kohmaks we are back to status quo: A twin version that makes its single counter part completely obsolete.

You may say twin kohmak isn't appealing, which is true, it comes from a non appealing weapon in the first place, bad for status, bad for crit; BUT, it's a STRAIGHT upgrade.

Whoever is in charge of this nonsense should go back and look at the two guns again, for consistency's sake. It's disheartening to see such a step-back in design after years into this.

[TheTundraTerror]

T H R E E B L O O D Y F O R M A

 

Edited April 30, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[Abc1000]

16 hours ago, Serious_Smith92 said:

The Twin Kohmak: Literally just one Kohmak with twice the bullets...

It is not double the ammo, just double the magazine!

Ammo is pretty much the same, which is not logical, should be twice as big, right? :)

Edited April 30, 2016 by Abc1000

[taiiat]

the User Interface does a poor job of reporting all stats.
chances are other things are changed that don't display on the User Interface.

there's a lot of hidden stats in the game.

12 hours ago, (PS4)DanteVincent said:

In the beggining of wf the dual versions used to be straight upgrades, which due to powercreep claims and whatnot, which I agree, changed.
With the addition of the twin kohmaks we are back to status quo: A twin version that makes its single counter part completely obsolete.

You may say twin kohmak isn't appealing, which is true, it comes from a non appealing weapon in the first place, bad for status, bad for crit; BUT, it's a STRAIGHT upgrade.
It's disheartening to see such a step-back in design after years into this.

uh - AKbronco Prime is the only Dual Sidearm that isn't a direct upgrade. the only. one.
(and Twin Kohmak, potentially. but we'll see once the hidden stats are evaluated)

Edited April 30, 2016 by taiiat

[-N7-Leonhart]

17 hours ago, Evan-0-matic said:

The gun isn't anything special to begin with (stat wise) and doubling its damage (as holding two guns of the same type would do!!!) wouldn't be OP in the least. They wouldn't even have to go that far to make it worth building/ buying. 

 

Please buff, and then I'll keep it. Until then it's mastery fodder. And I hate that term. 

I utterly disagree. The Kohmak is one of the strongest secondaries in the game, it's almost as strong as the primary Kohm. The damage that is shown in the arsenal is done PER PELLET and this gun fires a crapload of them the more it spools up. Just like it's big brother Kohm. Among other stuff, it also has 1m innate punchthrough, so there is no need to waste a mod slot for that.

[-N7-Leonhart]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Zashukitsune said:

At first glance, my brain said "of course it just has twice the ammo, it's just two guns" then I realized that such logic makes perfect sense in reality,but it's not why akimbo weapons exist in any game ever.

At the very least, in games, we expect double fire rate and magazine size from akimbo weapons...getting double ammo but not double fire rate just means it takes longer to get through a clip...an upgrade, sure, but...don't we use mods to get similar silly additions?

By that logic, Akimbo weapons also should have much worse accuracy, recoil and reload speed compared to the single for obvious reasons. However, this one doesn't, which you could say it's a strong point.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

38 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

I utterly disagree. The Kohmak is one of the strongest secondaries in the game, it's almost as strong as the primary Kohm. The damage that is shown in the arsenal is done PER PELLET and this gun fires a crapload of them the more it spools up. Just like it's big brother Kohm. Among other stuff, it also has 1m innate punchthrough, so there is no need to waste a mod slot for that.

At full spool Khom has 12 pellets a shot base, khomak is 5 or 6 at full spool base. It does decent but not outstanding damage, if it had 35-40% status or better crit it would definitely be worth having. Its needs more for its ammo consumption, achieving 100% status with modding or usable crit would do wonders. In its current state its just a different take on the Gatling pistol without any notable power for its in accuracy and forgettable damage at full spool let alone the ammo guzzling.

Edited April 30, 2016 by DarcnyssWolfe

[-N7-Leonhart]

2 minutes ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

At full spool Khom has 12 pellets a shot base, khomak is 5 or 6 at full spool base. It does decent but not outstanding damage, if it had 35-40% status or better crit it would definitely be worth having. In its current state its just a different take on the Gatling pistol. II

The status is also per pellet. Also, I said that the Kohmak is almost as good as the Kohm because even though it has half the max pellets, it also has better mods as a secondary and closes the gap between them quite a bit. Also, it doesn't use up the ammo all that fast, so a mutation may not be crucial, like with Kohm.