Excal Prime post-18.10.4 Feedback

[OniDax]

4 hours ago, Gelkor said:

This just means if people want to keep the horn white like it used to be we have to lose the stripes on the helmet and the grey on the joints (makeing them white).  At this junction we may as well just go with the "B" option we had, as long as the people who do want a colored horn don't mind colored shoulders. I'm sorry to be so picky, you're doing awesome work, it just seems like an almost intractable compromise. 

Ah well, either way, we'll all adapt and recolor something. XD

B is an absolute no-go. The stripes should not be the same color as the back/butt part of the frame. Absolutely not.

 

Also, this wasn't meant as a PBR 5th color thread. Take that somewhere else. Knowing a little bit about how they color the frames through TennoGen experience, I fully understand why there isn't a 5th color option specifically for PBR metal.

[Gelkor]

8 minutes ago, AntoineFlemming said:

B is an absolute no-go. The stripes should not be the same color as the back/butt part of the frame. Absolutely not.

It's just they seem hell-bent on trying to please the people that want a color-able horn, and the only way to do that is to either go with option B or completely destroy the default Excal skin.  Right now I just got rid of my stripes to fix the horn but if they change the channel i'll have to color my back/joints white. >=(

At least if they went with B we'd still have the option of using the default color scheme, if they try this hybrid thing that will no longer be possible. Or just give us two skins. Prime A and Prime B.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Gelkor

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, Gelkor said:

It's just they seem hell-bent on trying to please the people that want a color-able horn, and the only way to do that is to either go with option B or completely destroy the default Excal skin.  Right now I just got rid of my stripes to fix the horn but if they change the channel i'll have to color my back/joints white. >=(

At least if they went with B we'd still have the option of using the default color scheme, if they try this hybrid thing that will no longer be possible. Or just give us two skins. Prime A and Prime B.

Option B isn't the way to go, though. The way to go, IF they want to do that, is to match it with the back/butt part, or even with the stripes. But matching the stripes with the butt/back part isn't the way to go.

[Gelkor]

Just now, AntoineFlemming said:

Option B isn't the way to go, though. The way to go, IF they want to do that, is to match it with the back/butt part, or even with the stripes. But matching the stripes with the butt/back part isn't the way to go.

I'm not sure I follow, they are currently matching the horn with the stripes, which means to achieve the default helmet look you have to remove your stripes.  If they match the horn with the back/but, they will also match the horn with the joints, which means you have color the back/butt/joints white to keep the default look. Which, personally, is also not the way to go. I just want to be able to keep the default coloration, it's currently impossible and if they change it to match the back/butt it will still be impossible.

[OniDax]

11 hours ago, Gelkor said:

I'm not sure I follow, they are currently matching the horn with the stripes, which means to achieve the default helmet look you have to remove your stripes.  If they match the horn with the back/but, they will also match the horn with the joints, which means you have color the back/butt/joints white to keep the default look. Which, personally, is also not the way to go. I just want to be able to keep the default coloration, it's currently impossible and if they change it to match the back/butt it will still be impossible.

That wasn't option B. Option B matched the back with the stripes, and the horn and shoulders were a separate color.

That is Option B. What DE has currently done is match the horn to the body stripes, and the helmet stripes with the body back. At the very least, they should swap that so that the helmet stripes match the body stripes, and the horn matches the back. But I think I'd prefer if they just reverted it to Update 18.10.4, which was Option A.

[B_R_A_B_U_S-v12]

Do not touch Excalibur Prime ! He is good right now . Excellent textures , but old gold pieces was better exactly in the ship , . Also i think It would be nice if DE gave us back old gold pieces for Excalibur Prime, but do not touch the other texture, only gold pieces looks at the moment very bad

Edited May 4, 2016 by B_R_A_B_U_S-v12

[MDRLOz]

With the loss of a tint colour to the gold sections there is no way to make an Excalibur prime skin that will please everyone. It is just not doable.

One skin needs to be able to:   
- Keep the original pure white and grey excal version

- Allow people to colour the lines on the body and but separate to the arm/leg/side of chest lines.

- Allow people to colour the horn separately to main colour.

If we are using just one skin you have to pick one of those and not give it.

Seeing as Excalibur prime is an exclusive item that a lot of people hold very dear and have had up to 3 years with it a certain way I would say it is unacceptable for anyone to lose the part of the skin they like. Everyone should be able to have roughly the old excal that they had pre-pbr.

For this there is only two solutions:

1) The tinting system gets reworked to allow metal to be tinted separately. A lot of people have asked for this but I expect this to be a mammoth undertaking as I bet the game has been designed from the ground up with the tint system we have. To add more would probably mean every item in the game needs to be re worked. This is FAR too much work that DE should spent elsewhere - End result: Not doable/extremely unlikely.

2) Add in an additional body and helm skin for Excalibur prime. I would call these option A and Option B from the design council poll. (Sadly I cannot link to show people). Basically its one skin with tintable face horn and one with tintable arm/leg/side of chest stripes. This will allow people to produce all three of the options above and really would not take a great deal of work for DE (I assume, both versions were made for testing. Adding an additional "skin" as an option is something they already so and it is that is mostly the same just minor changes). Basically one becomes Excalibur prime and the other can be called Excalibur prime immortal skin. Or is a body is too much just release a second Excalibur prime helmet. That way we can have one with the stripe and one without. 

Personally I don’t get why a second skin/helmet just don’t get released. This is all about compromise and with the loss of a tint option due to gold it simply cannot be done on one skin. So let’s just release a second helmet with the stripe? I doubt any (well maybe a very minor confused few) who could argue with that solution. We are swimming in other cosmetic options and now with tennogen there is even more. So why not just add a second helmet skin and make everyone happy.

 

Edited May 4, 2016 by MDRLOz

[.Tabris]

@DE_Kary, Design Council and fellow Founder

I'm a mere Hunter so I don't "really" have a say on the Council, but still ...

The whole stripes/helmet thing ended up awkward when coloring, and we get that serrated look on some spots (already addressed by DE_Kary).

So, couldn't we have the stripes and joint colors as one channel ? See, on the original ExP Founders picture, both the joints and stripes were the same color, so the "Accents" can be used to tint the golden metallic parts:

(also, there seems to be a stain on his back, tied to one of the channels ... I'm not home right now, but I'll post a pic later)

Thanks

[Basilisk1991]

7 hours ago, B_R_A_B_U_S-v12 said:

Do not touch Excalibur Prime ! He is good right now . Excellent textures , but old gold pieces was better exactly in the ship , . Also i think It would be nice if DE gave us back old gold pieces for Excalibur Prime, but do not touch the other texture, only gold pieces looks at the moment very bad

I think the gold pieces look fine, I just think that the stripes on the helmet (especially if you pick two drastically different colors like me) have a lot of pixelation due to compression issues that DE_Kary touched on earlier so they look really bad with my color scheme. If they fixed that I would be fine with the current tintmap as it's laid out now.

[K0bra]

12 hours ago, B_R_A_B_U_S-v12 said:

Do not touch Excalibur Prime ! He is good right now . Excellent textures , but old gold pieces was better exactly in the ship , . Also i think It would be nice if DE gave us back old gold pieces for Excalibur Prime, but do not touch the other texture, only gold pieces looks at the moment very bad

The Gold textures look way better now then before.

[NightmareT12]

Small update:

-With Hotfix 18.10.5 Excalibur Prime now features the horn colorable by tint 3. Still we're virtually on the same issue for defaults. The lines at the back of the helm (that weren't there in the original design) are also there, but now don't look as crisp -- there's some weird squares going on.

I'm also seeing traces of the same kind of compression throughout him. Not as bad as Nyx before today, but there's something going on.

Edited May 4, 2016 by NightmareT12

[Gelkor]

54 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Small update:

-With Hotfix 18.10.5 Excalibur Prime now features the horn colorable by tint 3. Still we're virtually on the same issue for defaults. The lines at the back of the helm (that weren't there in the original design) are also there, but now don't look as crisp -- there's some weird squares going on.

I'm also seeing traces of the same kind of compression throughout him. Not as bad as Nyx before today, but there's something going on.

*sigh*

[.Tabris]

As promised on a previous post, here's the pic with the small "stain" on Excal's back, on the right side only. It's tied to stripes and joint colors:

Spoiler

for those who can't see the pic: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=2C6874897EF5F0E2!470&authkey=!AFYWk0Js-DO7Rbc&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng

Edited May 5, 2016 by .Zefir
extra link for mentioned pic

[RadiAcid]

God no, they finally struck my Excal P with their Sh1tty PBR Palette.

I hate you DE. Gold tint slot when.

Edited May 5, 2016 by RadiAcid

[Ninja]

Looks like DE tweak something in the recent Hotfix  

And this looks much much much better  

*Not listed in the Hotfix note because this is a Silent fix

 

[NightmareT12]

3 hours ago, RAFTOX said:

Looks like DE tweak something in the recent Hotfix  

And this looks much much much better  

*Not listed in the Hotfix note because this is a Silent fix

 

Still getting that grey in my face using defaults though.

*sigh*

10 hours ago, .Zefir said:

As promised on a previous post, here's the pic with the small "stain" on Excal's back, on the right side only. It's tied to stripes color:

  Hide contents

 

Pic ain't working.

I'm also not seeing it on my end? (at least on 18.10.5) Colored Excali in RGB to see better:

 

[Gelkor]

@AntoineFlemming, @MDRLOz, You guys got what you wanted. Now @NightmareT12 and I and others can no longer have the original default skin. >=[

[Nachino]

On 3/5/2016 at 5:11 AM, AntoineFlemming said:

Knowing a little bit about how they color the frames through TennoGen experience, I fully understand why there isn't a 5th color option specifically for PBR metal.

Could you please explain why? Because adding a fifth color tint slot for the metallic parts of prime items would solve all the appearance customization issues people have been complaining about.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Nachino

[NightmareT12]

16 minutes ago, Nachino said:

Could you please explain why? Because adding a fifth color tint slot for the metallic parts of prime items would solve all the appearance customization issues people have been complaining about.

That is not possible due the texture format DE uses (which I believe is .png). It's limited to 4 + emissive.

Anyways, what Gelkor means is that some people asked for the colorable horn, and they got it back. What's worrying about this is that there was a poll about it asking which tints to merge. Most (as in 51%) chose fusing the whites into a single tint. Both options would have had Excalibur as it is in any render or promotional material you see (so no gray face, so as to speak). Since the default colors can't be used on the helmets on their own, we're stuck at this.

Having said that: @Gelkor, this kind of reply or attitude will not help neither. And honestly Antoine already said he'd rather evert the changes and fix the two tint 3 stripes on the helm.

Anyways, the good thing about this game is that it's updated constantly. Just give time to Kary and to DE as a whole to see what's the outcome of this I guess. Patience is a virtue!

 

EDIT: And I must also note, I feel sorry for Kary since it's obvious he did put the tint back with the best of intentions. Perhaps that's what I'm most sorry for.

Edited May 5, 2016 by NightmareT12

[Gelkor]

1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

That is not possible due the texture format DE uses (which I believe is .png). It's limited to 4 + emissive.

Anyways, what Gelkor means is that some people asked for the colorable horn, and they got it back. What's worrying about this is that there was a poll about it asking which tints to merge. Most (as in 51%) chose fusing the whites into a single tint. Both options would have had Excalibur as it is in any render or promotional material you see (so no gray face, so as to speak). Since the default colors can't be used on the helmets on their own, we're stuck at this.

Having said that: @Gelkor, this kind of reply or attitude will not help neither. And honestly Antoine already said he'd rather evert the changes and fix the two tint 3 stripes on the helm.

Anyways, the good thing about this game is that it's updated constantly. Just give time to Kary and to DE as a whole to see what's the outcome of this I guess. Patience is a virtue!

 

EDIT: And I must also note, I feel sorry for Kary since it's obvious he did put the tint back with the best of intentions. Perhaps that's what I'm most sorry for.

I'm partly joking, I'm just mildly annoyed that we voted, and decided, and the decision was essentially overturned on the presence of a few complaint threads.  I guess I'll get used to the grey stripe. =\

[NightmareT12]

Just now, Gelkor said:

I'm partly joking, I'm just mildly annoyed that we voted, and decided, and the decision was essentially overturned on the presence of a few complaint threads.  I guess I'll get used to the grey stripe. =\

Sorry for misunderstanding the message of the post then. You know, Internet things because there's no voice tone :P

[MDRLOz]

I feel I should reply as I am probably to blame for bringing attention to the lack of ability to colour the horn. However it was never my intention to have it at the expense of the original colour scheme. In my opinion that should be persevered above all else. Both of the original two options in design council did this and that was great.
The hybrid of both that we have now lets me colour the horn which is good. However it is at the expense of the original colour scheme which makes me sad. I don’t feel this is a satisfactory outcome and, as I have said before, I don’t feel one skin can give all the original customization that we were used to. 

I do feel it is important that this issue is resolved to everyone’s satisfaction. Excalibur prime is always a controversial topic but as the main founder item for it to have its skin altered to PBR because everything else gets PBRed and then the skin issues not resolved is a big shame.

Also I want to comment on the poll of which you speak. This poll was put on design council with no warning, it was run officially for less than 24 hours before the decision was made and the final result was very close to a 50% split. However the biggest issue I have with that poll is who was allowed to vote. Any Ps4 or Xbox player who has been elevated to design council could vote on it. Now I don’t know what the result would be if you removed these players. All I know is that they voted. Though I might be called elitist for this, I do not accept console players being allowed to vote and decide on the look of a founder’s item that cannot and will not be present on their version of the game. DE have stated how the founders were a massive boost to the support of this game. Why should the later console players have a say in what a reward to those players look like? But it also gets worse. Anyone who had hunter level founders has access to Excalibur prime. However not everyone with hunters tier has access to the design council. This means that founders would not have say in what a founder’s item that they own will look like from now on but console players would.  So for these reasons I rejected the decision of the poll (even though it really shows very strong support for both sides) and made my very childish thread to complain about it.

Despite the fact I can colour the horn how I like (even though the helmets colours are still messed up in order vs old), I won’t stop campaigning till we get an Excalibur Prime that can be coloured in all the ways it was possible before.

Edited May 5, 2016 by MDRLOz

[Valiant]

On 05/05/2016 at 8:02 PM, Gelkor said:

I'm partly joking, I'm just mildly annoyed that we voted, and decided, and the decision was essentially overturned on the presence of a few complaint threads.  I guess I'll get used to the grey stripe. =\

Unfortunately this is common. A few complaints pop up about one thing or another and the minority end up getting what they want. Generally makes little to no sense.

This horn stuff has kind of ruined my basic colour scheme for Excalibur Prime where he was a nice creamy white. Now if I want that as his horn is now colourable I have to make his joints white too and it looks terrible.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Naith

[Gelkor]

42 minutes ago, Naith said:

Unfortunately this is common. A few complaints pop up about one thing or another and the minority end up getting what they want. Generally makes little to no sense.

This horn stuff has kind of ruined my basic colour scheme for Excalibur Prime where he was a nice creamy white. Now if I want that as his horn is now colourable I have to make his joints white too and it looks terrible.

I didn't mind having to color my stripes white as much as I mind having to color my joints white.  I just want the original default to be possible. It's not anymore and that's silly.

[Frosty_2.0]

On 03/05/2016 at 0:06 PM, KyleDelta said:

I'm also really disappointed, I liked my simplistic white + blue combination but now the middle helmet and horn is colored along with the stripes which ruins it for me :(

Not sure how the whole Tinting process works but wouldn't it work if they gave out warframe skins that revert to the older tinting channels?

I'd be happy with DE adding a skin with the original tinting channels to all Founder accounts, so we could change at will.

I don't remember my exact colour scheme anymore either (didn't have it screenshoted in advance), I've been busy & tired so I just noticed the tint changes & notes yesterday then tried to edit the new PBR tint scheme back from memory.