What's inside a Warframe? (#2)

[Yiix]

(I may screw something up, so don't kill me, thanks.)

Alright. So a lot of people think that there is something organic/alive inside a Warframe. And I personally think that is true. And not true. Because I think DE made a mistake with it, but I did come up with a conclusion that might work.

So many think there is an Infested like creature inside our Warframes, and I don't think so. Because, the Infestation is a virus, and the Infested are those who are infected with it. Grineer and Corpus are sub-species of humans, and humans have hearts.

A lot of the Infested are infected Grineer and Corpus, so they should still have hearts. Any creature that is infected should still have a heart, and even though we don't know what exactly is inside (thus this topic), we also know that Corpus machinery can also get infected. So, all this is very confusing. 

So that gives us 3 options:

A: There is something organic/Infested inside.

B: There is just some type of technology/robotics.

C: A mix of both.

Well, in the Second Dream quest, Alad V says something along the lines of, "You must be wondering, where is my heart, if not in my chest?". This is basically saying that since Alad V has opened up a Warframe and looked inside, there is no heart, and based on the context, no way anything organic/Infested like could be in a Warframe. So there is nothing organic. However, to contradict this, Lephantis says some stuff about being the same flesh or something. So there is something organic. 

Of course, there is "bleeding out", but when you bleed out, that's basically just your transference re-syncing. 

So my conclusion?

Joke Conclusion:

Spoiler

DE ****ed up. kappa

Real Conclusion:

Spoiler

The insides of a Warframe may be Infested machinery, like some Corpus units. That's the only logical explanation I can make. If there was an infested creature inside, there would be a heart. And if there was just machinery, Lephantis wouldn't say we're the same flesh.

So I might be missing something, so feel free to correct me if I forgot something, etc. Thumbs up and tell me your opinions :)

[Renathy]

Why must there be something inside? The whole suit could be a living thing. If it's entirely made out of organic materials, why would only the insides matter?

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

I am pretty sure Alad is just being poetic, and referring to the reservoir, which Hunhow also referred to as "the Tenno heart".

My reasoning is that a Tenno is actually two individuals: the Operator, and the Antenna. The Operators were the children on the Zariman, with the powers of the void. As for the Antennae, I think they were what we see in Rhino Prime's codex entry. Tenno-esque creatures, experimented on using whatever originally created the infested. I also think the "Tenno" you're protecting in those pods on defense missions are actually Antennae, and that Lotus stuffs them inside a warframe for the Operators to control. This eliminates the supposed contradictions regarding infested boss dialogue, and explains the Tenno immunity to infestation. Because the immunity obviously doesn't come from transference, as we see in the Corrupted Ancient synthesis entry. Normally, the Antennae would still be vulnerable. As for Mutalist Mesa..... F*** if I know. Maybe DE will be able to sci-fi bs their way out of that massive plot hole.

[Extroah]

I personally still believe that there is some kind of human inside, even though some of the lore (as of this moment) is pointing against it. But isn't it possible that there is a Human inside of the Warframe with a "link" to the Operator, and that he is losing consciousness whenever the Human gets "disconnected"? Maybe along the lines of matrix, where people would pretty much die lose consciousness (in some cases forever) if the link gets unexpectedly disconnected? That could explain why we just collapse in the 2nd dream quest but still be able pull the blade out. (loss of consciousness for a moment before regaining it). Would also explain why our blood isn't green'ish like it should be if we would indeed be infested. (could be a design issue, but it's a possibility)

I think of the Operator kinda like a military radio guy that gives instructions on where the enemy is at or how to best hit his most vulnerable spot. But thinking that there is nothing/just an infested mindless drone or something is inside of a warframe is not only pretty lackluster but also doesn't make sense, at least for me. I just prefer to think that i play as some kind of Human that can switch between different purpose-made Suits for different situations rather than being some small kid that "transfers his consciousness" into an empty shell.

[Ajreil]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

As for Mutalist Mesa..... F*** if I know. Maybe DE will be able to sci-fi bs their way out of that massive plot hole.

The Lotus specifically refers to Mutalist Mesa as "just a hollow shell." This suggests that she is an Antenna, as you said, but without an operator controlling it. Alad V has probably had a lot of opportunities to study these Antennas.

During the Tubemen or Regor event, Alad V says the following: "I've... seen inside a Tenno. There are things I can't understand."

Following your theory, Alad V has only seen one half of the machine. The commmanded, but not the commander - a piece of the puzzle he would need to properly understand what is going on.

For this to hold true, we need to assume that he did not know about the operators at this point in time, which the Second Dream quest confirms. He was shocked that the Tenno had the operators hidden on the moon, and that the second half of you existed.

[SilvaDreams]

1 hour ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

I am pretty sure Alad is just being poetic, and referring to the reservoir, which Hunhow also referred to as "the Tenno heart".

My reasoning is that a Tenno is actually two individuals: the Operator, and the Antenna. The Operators were the children on the Zariman, with the powers of the void. As for the Antennae, I think they were what we see in Rhino Prime's codex entry. Tenno-esque creatures, experimented on using whatever originally created the infested. I also think the "Tenno" you're protecting in those pods on defense missions are actually Antennae, and that Lotus stuffs them inside a warframe for the Operators to control. This eliminates the supposed contradictions regarding infested boss dialogue, and explains the Tenno immunity to infestation. Because the immunity obviously doesn't come from transference, as we see in the Corrupted Ancient synthesis entry. Normally, the Antennae would still be vulnerable. As for Mutalist Mesa..... F*** if I know. Maybe DE will be able to sci-fi bs their way out of that massive plot hole.

The Mesa being controlled had Alads collar on, thus giving him control of the frame like when you fight him and he gets you with it.

[Ajreil]

8 minutes ago, Extroah said:

I personally still believe that there is some kind of human inside, even though some of the lore (as of this moment) is pointing against it. But isn't it possible that there is a Human inside of the Warframe with a "link" to the Operator, and that he is losing consciousness whenever the Human gets "disconnected"? Maybe along the lines of matrix, where people would pretty much die lose consciousness (in some cases forever) if the link gets unexpectedly disconnected? That could explain why we just collapse in the 2nd dream quest but still be able pull the blade out. (loss of consciousness for a moment before regaining it). Would also explain why our blood isn't green'ish like it should be if we would indeed be infested. (could be a design issue, but it's a possibility)

I think of the Operator kinda like a military radio guy that gives instructions on where the enemy is at or how to best hit his most vulnerable spot. But thinking that there is nothing/just an infested mindless drone or something is inside of a warframe is not only pretty lackluster but also doesn't make sense, at least for me. I just prefer to think that i play as some kind of Human that can switch between different purpose-made Suits for different situations rather than being some small kid that "transfers his consciousness" into an empty shell.

Here is my interpretation:

The Tenno are the children from the Zaroman (as confirmed by Rhino's codex entry). They were experimented on, but eventually more or less went free during the Old War after we slaughtered the Orokin. At the point of time, the Tenno are 100% sentient and conscious. They gain personalities during this state, with Mesa becoming the blindfolded sharpshooter, Nekros getting into whatever lore mess he got into with Lephantis, and Limbo exploding after mastering some obscure parts of physics.

During this stage, the Tenno already have their operators on the moon, locked in the Second Dream. In Rhino's entry, the end suggests this:

Quote

 

Then silence. Davis is panting, laughing? The beast fills the doorway, inches from him, dripping in blood, but still without violence. It stands there, looking at its hands. Davis whispers, "No one would have believed me."

I crawl up the wall to stand, opposite the door. I've never seen this cell, a cold place with an array of shelves. A morgue? "Where are we, Davis?"

"This is where they keep them. The ones from Zariman." I'm thrown, what was the Zariman? The ship that never returned? "Davis, what's going on?" Davis turns to me, a smile forming - "What's going on is.." He turns back to the beast now silent and calm. "...big, fat promotions."

 

Here is what I gather from this. Rhino is charging at them full force, then they get into a room, and he stops. The narrator wonders if it's a morgue - possibly because there are bodies there, specifically sleeping Operators. Rhino knows this, and going on a rampage anywhere close to these is going to mean killing someone on his own side.

 

Your operator communicates with you as if you are a seperate entity, but this may just be because for the last several centuries he didn't know he was seperate from the Tenno. It's hard to address yourself in the first person, so it may just be easier to talk in the second person. Your operator also frequently says things like "The transference makes this hurt" which certainly suggests a connection.

[Extroah]

10 minutes ago, Ajreil said:

Here is my interpretation:

The Tenno are the children from the Zaroman (as confirmed by Rhino's codex entry). They were experimented on, but eventually more or less went free during the Old War after we slaughtered the Orokin. At the point of time, the Tenno are 100% sentient and conscious. They gain personalities during this state, with Mesa becoming the blindfolded sharpshooter, Nekros getting into whatever lore mess he got into with Lephantis, and Limbo exploding after mastering some obscure parts of physics.

During this stage, the Tenno already have their operators on the moon, locked in the Second Dream. In Rhino's entry, the end suggests this:

Here is what I gather from this. Rhino is charging at them full force, then they get into a room, and he stops. The narrator wonders if it's a morgue - possibly because there are bodies there, specifically sleeping Operators. Rhino knows this, and going on a rampage anywhere close to these is going to mean killing someone on his own side.

 

Your operator communicates with you as if you are a seperate entity, but this may just be because for the last several centuries he didn't know he was seperate from the Tenno. It's hard to address yourself in the first person, so it may just be easier to talk in the second person. Your operator also frequently says things like "The transference makes this hurt" which certainly suggests a connection.

Interesting ideas in there. I had to read up about the Zariman again as i haven't heard that term in quite a while, but i've found something interesting on the Warframe Wiki. "however as alluded in Excalibur's lore, they might have lied to cover up their successful secret experiment: which was to intentionally send a military ship into the Void consisting of children to afflict them with the Void Energy." Wouldn't that mean that Warframes have and had their own consciousness even before the children became operators? This sounds to me like Warframes, in this case Excaliburs, already existed back when they sent Children to the Void which could be where they go ttheir powers from?

[SilvaDreams]

2 minutes ago, Extroah said:

Interesting ideas in there. I had to read up about the Zariman again as i haven't heard that term in quite a while, but i've found something interesting on the Warframe Wiki. "however as alluded in Excalibur's lore, they might have lied to cover up their successful secret experiment: which was to intentionally send a military ship into the Void consisting of children to afflict them with the Void Energy." Wouldn't that mean that Warframes have and had their own consciousness even before the children became operators? This sounds to me like Warframes, in this case Excaliburs, already existed back when they sent Children to the Void which could be where they go ttheir powers from?

Well the thing in the Rhino P. Codex wasn't a Warframe, it was an infested unit.

And yes our frames do share some powers with them if you hadn't noticed before. The only difference is the Orokin could manipulate the genetics of the infested or harvest unique mutations later used them to construct the Warframes.

[Horaciozhao]

Infestation wasn't able to infect machines before Alad V made them evolve. Warframe existed far longer than that, so no, it's not infected machines

[Ajreil]

24 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Well the thing in the Rhino P. Codex wasn't a Warframe, it was an infested unit.

And yes our frames do share some powers with them if you hadn't noticed before. The only difference is the Orokin could manipulate the genetics of the infested or harvest unique mutations later used them to construct the Warframes.

Quote

Its skin changes, flowing like mercury

Sounds like Iron Skin to me. It also seems to fight like Rhino, although I suppose it fights like a Charger as well.

[chaotea]

3 hours ago, Kaiayi said:

" Because I think DE made a mistake with it.."

I dont think DE made a mistake. I think DE has the whole idea planned out for what warframes are, and have done so for a while. Its simply that they haven't relieved everything to us yet.

 

Still, my own personal theory, based on stuff in the second dream, is the warframes are living techno-organic creatures. Without a tenno they are blank slates. A tenno can grant them will (possibly to more than one at once) but doesn't actually control them. The tenno can see and hear what the warframe does, but isnt actually controlling them like a puppet. Influencing maybe, but they act more like the warframes heart than its mind, giving it the raw power which fuels its will. In the Rhino Prime codex entry, it speaks of a hunking infested creature. I believe this to be a proto-warframe, pre-excaliber. Back then these proto creatures were tied to the infested hive mind, but it would have been weak, being that only a few infested units were present (being under scientific study). When it got to close to the sleeping tenno, its link to the hive mind was broken and the tenno will asserted, at least in a limited fashion.

 

Anyway, thats what ive got from stuff recently. It would also help explain just why the stalker is so interested in killing tenno, as the stalker itself rebelled at the idea of being a puppet, and wishes to end its own existence buy killing its tenno (if tenno can 'fuel' more than one warframe, it would explain why it goes after your tenno, even when it knows its powering your own frame). So it wants to destroy all tenno until it finds its own. The stalker acolytes could conceivably be similar disillusioned warframes, even from other tenno. This reasoning would also help explain why the sentient are willing to work with the stalker, as it wishes to destroy all tenno including its own, which doesnt contradict the sentient goal.

[SilvaDreams]

44 minutes ago, Ajreil said:

Sounds like Iron Skin to me. It also seems to fight like Rhino, although I suppose it fights like a Charger as well.

Well of course it sounds a lot like Rhino, the infested were once humans before being infected and changed.

Some mutations likely stayed a bit more human shaped like the ancients and leapers. Then again the Orokin were using the Infested as a weapon so who knows what kind of specialized creations they had made before the infested went rogue when forming a hive mind.

[arch111]

I believe the warframes house a clone of the original void-returnees, modified by the technocyte nanobots to withstand the Void and connect to the bioarmor.

The Zariman-child and the surrogate are the Tenno. Symbiosis is the merging of two things that use each other to survive or evolve.

The Tenno-survivor was in a dream-state believing to be inside the actual warframe.

Ordis knew this, broken as he is, and call you Operator,  not Tenno. Operator is on the other side of a call.

Lotus however speak directly to the Tenno: You. 

The Tenno in the Chair speak to me, she tells me that WE fought with honour. Bot her or she, but we together. 

Therefore I am the warframe. We all are.

So there is a corpse in every warframe,  but it is a part of the armor; a biotechnology.

[chaotea]

1 hour ago, Horaciozhao said:

Infestation wasn't able to infect machines before Alad V made them evolve. Warframe existed far longer than that, so no, it's not infected machines

Thats not true though. The infested had corrupted ships long before alad V. I think its more likely that the infested can infest anything, but the hive mind itself has no 'creativity' so before it would have just treated machines the same as the ships and structures. Alad V simply displayed creativity in designing new infested variations.

[chaotea]

1 hour ago, Extroah said:

Interesting ideas in there. I had to read up about the Zariman again as i haven't heard that term in quite a while, but i've found something interesting on the Warframe Wiki. "however as alluded in Excalibur's lore, they might have lied to cover up their successful secret experiment: which was to intentionally send a military ship into the Void consisting of children to afflict them with the Void Energy." Wouldn't that mean that Warframes have and had their own consciousness even before the children became operators? This sounds to me like Warframes, in this case Excaliburs, already existed back when they sent Children to the Void which could be where they go ttheir powers from?

Warframes themselves were only created during the orikin / sentient war, and presumably only after the orokin had deployed the infestation as a weapon. The tenno likely were created before the war, as the orokin were less interested in their use as weapons, and more concerned with how dangerous they might be.

[Zyrgi]

I hope there is candy inside... Would make a decent pinata.

In all seriousness, I'm just waiting for the developers to tell the story instead of speculating so that after they have finished telling the story, we'll be able to point out the plot holes. :D

[Ajreil]

19 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Thats not true though. The infested had corrupted ships long before alad V. I think its more likely that the infested can infest anything, but the hive mind itself has no 'creativity' so before it would have just treated machines the same as the ships and structures. Alad V simply displayed creativity in designing new infested variations.

I'm thinking the Infestation had that ability originally, but lost it somehow, either through Orokin intervention or it simply decayed over time. Alad V was interested in ancient strains of the Infestation, so he may have brought that ability back.

The 'decay' theory is somewhat supported by the Orokin Derelect tileset. Here the Infestation is much weaker, resembling plants more than flesh. It also seems to have no control over the Derelect, while in more 'recent' tilesets it seems to have some control over the environment (such as tapping into the security system in Hive and Infested rescue missions). Alad V may have introduced the original strain from when it was at full power.

[Ajreil]

20 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Warframes themselves were only created during the orikin / sentient war, and presumably only after the orokin had deployed the infestation as a weapon. The tenno likely were created before the war, as the orokin were less interested in their use as weapons, and more concerned with how dangerous they might be.

As we learned from Natah and Excalibur's codex entry, the Warframes were created as a weapon to fight the Infestation/Sentient. The Lotus was in control of the project, and after the Tenno did their task she was ordered to kill us. She instead turned us against the Orokin because she wanted children, something she couldn't do as the "cost of using the rails." So yes, this suggests that the Fleshtenno existed before the Warframes did.

They are certainly separate entities, however. The Second Dream trailer proves this - you can kill a Warframe but it will just come back. Certainly killing the "Tenno heart" is a bit more permanent.

[SilvaDreams]

31 minutes ago, Ajreil said:

As we learned from Natah and Excalibur's codex entry, the Warframes were created as a weapon to fight the Infestation/Sentient. The Lotus was in control of the project, and after the Tenno did their task she was ordered to kill us. She instead turned us against the Orokin because she wanted children, something she couldn't do as the "cost of using the rails." So yes, this suggests that the Fleshtenno existed before the Warframes did.

They are certainly separate entities, however. The Second Dream trailer proves this - you can kill a Warframe but it will just come back. Certainly killing the "Tenno heart" is a bit more permanent.

Umm, no. Natah was a sentient infiltration unit. She guided us and had us kill the Orokin (Likely part of our own will it seems) after the sentients faked their loss of the war. Once the task was complete Then she was suppose to kill us, though maternal instincts kicked in and she his us away becoming space mom and never awoke her own kind to keep us safe.

[BornWithTeeth]

ITT: "Naw man. The Warframes are the real Tenno, and the Operators are just mission control. Second Dream can get stuffed."

[chaotea]

1 hour ago, Ajreil said:

As we learned from Natah and Excalibur's codex entry, the Warframes were created as a weapon to fight the Infestation/Sentient. The Lotus was in control of the project, and after the Tenno did their task she was ordered to kill us. She instead turned us against the Orokin because she wanted children, something she couldn't do as the "cost of using the rails." So yes, this suggests that the Fleshtenno existed before the Warframes did.

They are certainly separate entities, however. The Second Dream trailer proves this - you can kill a Warframe but it will just come back. Certainly killing the "Tenno heart" is a bit more permanent.

See, i saw it differently. From how i interpreted Natah and all that was that at the end of the sentient war it was the lotuses task to destroy the tenno, but on arriving in our system she (likely upon finding them, for whatever reason, now fighting the orokin. I think its likely that at this point the infestation had got out of control and so the tenno began fighting it. The orokin however have shown to have a complete disregard for those they view as 'beneath' them. Likely this clashed with the tenno ideal of honor and protecting the weak) decided to 'adopt' and protect the tenno instead. However, the scientist who put the tenno to sleep (the woman's voice we hear) wasn't the lotus, and was executed for not destroying them. Its probable however that the male scientist voice we hear was the one who formed the tenno into warriors. Though as you say the tenno existed before the warframes, but we know this more as its noted that the tenno had ' built a frame around them '.

 

From Excal Primes Entry:

The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.

 

Nata is a sentient, so its unlikely she aided in the creation of the warframes. Especially considering the use of the void.

[Xgomme]

7 minutes ago, chaotea said:

See, i saw it differently. From how i interpreted Natah and all that was that at the end of the sentient war it was the lotuses task to destroy the tenno, but on arriving in our system she (likely upon finding them, for whatever reason, now fighting the orokin. I think its likely that at this point the infestation had got out of control and so the tenno began fighting it. The orokin however have shown to have a complete disregard for those they view as 'beneath' them. Likely this clashed with the tenno ideal of honor and protecting the weak) decided to 'adopt' and protect the tenno instead. However, the scientist who put the tenno to sleep (the woman's voice we hear) wasn't the lotus, and was executed for not destroying them. Its probable however that the male scientist voice we hear was the one who formed the tenno into warriors. Though as you say the tenno existed before the warframes, but we know this more as its noted that the tenno had ' built a frame around them '.

 

From Excal Primes Entry:

The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.

 

Nata is a sentient, so its unlikely she aided in the creation of the warframes. Especially considering the use of the void.

The Excal P entry reminds me of Dark Sector. Like a few people (Hayden included) was able to handle the infestation. They are the first warframes, they are why warframes are gendered and with a story, because the first of each was an infested human transformed into a warframe, and later maybe cloned to be used as vessel

[SilvaDreams]

20 minutes ago, chaotea said:

See, i saw it differently. From how i interpreted Natah and all that was that at the end of the sentient war it was the lotuses task to destroy the tenno, but on arriving in our system she (likely upon finding them, for whatever reason, now fighting the orokin. I think its likely that at this point the infestation had got out of control and so the tenno began fighting it. The orokin however have shown to have a complete disregard for those they view as 'beneath' them. Likely this clashed with the tenno ideal of honor and protecting the weak) decided to 'adopt' and protect the tenno instead. However, the scientist who put the tenno to sleep (the woman's voice we hear) wasn't the lotus, and was executed for not destroying them. Its probable however that the male scientist voice we hear was the one who formed the tenno into warriors. Though as you say the tenno existed before the warframes, but we know this more as its noted that the tenno had ' built a frame around them '.

 

From Excal Primes Entry:

The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us. The more advanced we became, the greater our losses. The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first.

 

Nata is a sentient, so its unlikely she aided in the creation of the warframes. Especially considering the use of the void.

I'm sure you are talking about Margulis (The woman) whom originally cared for us after the Zimmerman 10-0 reappeared, and which was blinded and scared by our uncontrolled powers who was later executed by her lover Ballas (the male) because she refused to kill us as we were a blemish on the Orokin perfection.

We were then kept for unknown time in the dream and likely experimented upon as we no longer had Margulis to protect us, eventually the insane bastard mentioned in the Rhino Prime codex released the infested beast and guided it near our sleeping place and Transference was discovered and the birth of the Warframes.

[Kaotyke]

5 hours ago, Ajreil said:

For this to hold true, we need to assume that he did not know about the operators at this point in time, which the Second Dream quest confirms. He was shocked that the Tenno had the operators hidden on the moon, and that the second half of you existed.

No, he never found out about the Operators. Hunhow found him and made him run long before he could.