Kubrows vs Sentinels - Cute vs Useful

[ngrazer]

2 hours ago, Spot. said:

Um, they did though. In 18.5. And it's pretty noticeable too.

Just thought I'd point that out.

Oh, glad to hear that. Gotta try it by myself then.

[Kaotyke]

 

[jinxeverything]

What's with most of people here? someone want something to be good or even better and yet almost everyone is/ are......well......just trolling those who want to support the OP's idea.

Even with last update, Kubrows AI is still broken, they stand in the harm way taking damage not moving from their spot and ended up needing reviving, DO I NEED TO MOVE FROM MY LOCATION FOR IT TO STOP TAKING DAMAGE IT BY DEFAULT SHOULD AVOID? 

Kubrows need a serious rework from AI to mods, why a Sahara breed need Dig mod equipped in order for it to dig? shouldn't these precept mods be innate thing, same for Sentinels?

This thread is for Kubrows and their lovers, including myself, if you don't like Kubrows in general then leave those who likes Kubrows alone!!

 

 

 

[Syntax3Error]

Kubrows can be revived infinite times while sentinel can only be revived once. also kubrows are way more tanky than any sentinel.

if any thing, sentinel should get some sort of a buff.

Edited May 9, 2016 by EranTerran

[reverb6]

that last part of the video. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH XD

can't stop... laughing XD

[TheBright888]

1 hour ago, Prinny13 said:

What's with most of people here? someone want something to be good or even better and yet almost everyone is/ are......well......just trolling those who want to support the OP's idea.

Even with last update, Kubrows AI is still broken, they stand in the harm way taking damage not moving from their spot and ended up needing reviving, DO I NEED TO MOVE FROM MY LOCATION FOR IT TO STOP TAKING DAMAGE IT BY DEFAULT SHOULD AVOID? 

Kubrows need a serious rework from AI to mods, why a Sahara breed need Dig mod equipped in order for it to dig? shouldn't these precept mods be innate thing, same for Sentinels?

This thread is for Kubrows and their lovers, including myself, if you don't like Kubrows in general then leave those who likes Kubrows alone!!

Thats the point.

Stating that kubrows are underpowered is not to attack Kubrows, it is to help them.

They are hard and expensive to max, hard to breed and should be at least as good as sentinels.

Edited May 9, 2016 by TheBright888

[jinxeverything]

8 minutes ago, TheBright888 said:

Thats the point.

Stating that kubrows are underpowered is not to attack Kubrows, it is to help them.

They are hard and expensive to max, hard to breed and should be at least as good as sentinels.

True and they are not "underpowered" but "underperforming", well, the AI part most of the time :(

They need to "get out of the harm's way" and not "duck" when you look above their heads, a serious rework is needed here, DE why are you ignoring them?

DE, I know you have alot on your plate since you are making/ improving contents but please make Kubrows smart enough to "adapt" to situation!!!!!   

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Sorry, I'll take my Huras, Bayang, with me any day. He's saved me more times than most teammates I've had and sadly does more damage than a lot of my teammates  (thanks Bite and Maul).

And I can pick up my own items, so that will never be a determining factor for me for me regarding a companion.

[Gravalite]

I just feel like Sentinels keep getting more and more toys that make them more useful/appealing than Kubrows and with Kavats around the corner one can only hope that Kubrows will get some more love or else be drowned out by the other companions. 

[Rounpositron]

Use Helios.

#CorpusMasterRace

[TheBright888]

1 hour ago, Gravalite said:

I just feel like Sentinels keep getting more and more toys that make them more useful/appealing than Kubrows and with Kavats around the corner one can only hope that Kubrows will get some more love or else be drowned out by the other companions. 

Lets hope they get some Medi-Ray and Vacuum Mammal Mods

[(XBOX)dude1286]

Carrier (Prime) is love, Carrier (Prime) is life.

 

With how many materials and mods drop in my games, I would prefer not to spend time trying to pick them up instead of trying to kill the next batch of enemies.

[Charko]

Since you don't have to run around picking up energy/ammo/mods/mats.  For me it's translated into more dps, cc, healing. And this is a loot game…  

[Sonos]

6 out of 5 Medical Doctors with Science Degrees agree:  Kubrows have more teeth than Sentinels so they have to be the better choice.

[SugarShow]

Edited May 9, 2016 by SugarShow

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, Charko said:

Since you don't have to run around picking up energy/ammo/mods/mats.  For me it's translated into more dps, cc, healing. And this is a loot game…  

This is such an exaggeration. Thats like saying energy siphon= more DPS. I get plenty of drops playing without carrier. Many of you act as if you cant pick up at all if you don't have vaccum. At best carrier users pick up 30% more than I do in a mission. And thats 30% more of items I dont really need. Its like saying I miss out on drops by not opening every locker. Who cares.

When I dropped carrier I didn't see a huge dip in my effectiveness at all. Nor did I see a drop in my resources.

I think many of you need to open your eyes and realize that you DONT need carrier and its not all that necessary.  Kubrows and other sentinels provide so much more for most builds. Carrier is essential for an ammo efficiency build or a farming build, that's about it.

[Katanakid13]

10 hours ago, SSNeoman said:

While making the Vaccum mod usable for all companions. I'd seriously slot it everywhere just as I do with Animal Instinct

Edited May 9, 2016 by Katanakid13
Mobile is dumb.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

41 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

This is such an exaggeration. Thats like saying energy siphon= more DPS. I get plenty of drops playing without carrier. Many of you act as if you cant pick up at all if you don't have vaccum. At best carrier users pick up 30% more than I do in a mission. And thats 30% more of items I dont really need. Its like saying I miss out on drops by not opening every locker. Who cares.

When I dropped carrier I didn't see a huge dip in my effectiveness at all. Nor did I see a drop in my resources.

I think many of you need to open your eyes and realize that you DONT need carrier and its not all that necessary.  Kubrows and other sentinels provide so much more for most builds. Carrier is essential for an ammo efficiency build or a farming build, that's about it.

Carrier people are lazy people 
and they won't change...

[ViLeDeth]

You're wasting your time with someone who doesn't want a discussion. The part of this forum where we discuss something and consider points from arguing sides is MIA in this thread.

The OP doesn't care, this is a carrier worship thread.

You can argue until your heads explode. This is a carrier worship thread. I already told the OP in another thread straight up on how exaggerated their claims are and offered a break down on how effective things can be at best with a sentinel, not just carrier. I offered alternatives between kubrows and sentinels. How to keep each alive and where they shine best.

You're all wasting your time on this person. There are two possibilities about this individual. They are a troll or they are unwilling to accept alternative points of view (aka narrow minded, maxed rank.)

Should you hate this kind of individual? No.
Should you interact with this individual? Advising to take consideration of the OP's history from other threads regarding the matter. It would be wise to limit engagement.

So what can you gather from this thread? You already knew more coming into the thread before replying to any of the OP's posts. You learned nothing new.

As I said in a previous post within this thread:

Spoiler

When I was young I had training wheels on my bike. I removed them after I got the hang of things.

Spoiler

I won't judge you for wanting to keep yours on forever.

 

[Bluejay235]

It should also be pointed out that kubrows are USELESS to new players who have no way to level them properly. Kubrow mods also seem to only drop in higher level content. The mission to breed your first kurbow should be locked until MR8 or something. Rather kubrows are better than sentinels at higher levels when both are maxed out I have no idea, but for I anticipate that sents are the way to go for sure for long time after one starts playing.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Bluejay235

[Hypernaut1]

34 minutes ago, ViLeDeth said:

You're wasting your time with someone who doesn't want a discussion. The part of this forum where we discuss something and consider points from arguing sides is MIA in this thread.

The OP doesn't care, this is a carrier worship thread.

You can argue until your heads explode. This is a carrier worship thread. I already told the OP in another thread straight up on how exaggerated their claims are and offered a break down on how effective things can be at best with a sentinel, not just carrier. I offered alternatives between kubrows and sentinels. How to keep each alive and where they shine best.

You're all wasting your time on this person. There are two possibilities about this individual. They are a troll or they are unwilling to accept alternative points of view (aka narrow minded, maxed rank.)

Should you hate this kind of individual? No.
Should you interact with this individual? Advising to take consideration of the OP's history from other threads regarding the matter. It would be wise to limit engagement.

So what can you gather from this thread? You already knew more coming into the thread before replying to any of the OP's posts. You learned nothing new.

As I said in a previous post within this thread:

  Hide contents

When I was young I had training wheels on my bike. I removed them after I got the hang of things.

  Reveal hidden contents

I won't judge you for wanting to keep yours on forever.

 

Honestly,  im more concerned about new players getting the wrong idea. This is  the main reason why I always voice my opinion. 

When I was a new player, forum post had me afraid of hatching my Kubrow. I stuck with my carrier because its what everyone parroted over and over as the best and they warnrd about how hard to maintain a kubrow was. 

Turns out- kubrows were NOT hard to maintain or expensive (even b4 the upgrade) and my Huras was invaluable to me when I was forced to solo the rest of the starchart with few high end mods. 

[ViLeDeth]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Spoiler

 

Honestly,  im more concerned about new players getting the wrong idea. This is  the main reason why I always voice my opinion. 

When I was a new player, forum post had me afraid of hatching my Kubrow. I stuck with my carrier because its what everyone parroted over and over as the best and they warnrd about how hard to maintain a kubrow was. 

Turns out- kubrows were NOT hard to maintain or expensive (even b4 the upgrade) and my Huras was invaluable to me when I was forced to solo the rest of the starchart with few high end mods. 

 

 

 

Yes, I have read your posts in this thread btw. I understand the intention to call out people for these things. Just, look at the title of this topic - it is implying that kubrows are visual only and sentinels are utility only. Then the OP worms their way into hijacking their own title with Carrier being the only choice.

This was never a discussion to begin with, this was just a means of pushing a single side without question. Other sentinels were never important to the OP. They simply said that to lay the ground work for their true motives with that disguise.

[(PSN)Mazda_07_]

Well with health regeneration yeah they are better for casuals and anything not hard . In every way they are better now until hey get shot down after level 80's lol.  Think of carrier like a civic.  It's pretty quick with very little upgrades bit it can only go so far now a v8 can do that amd go much MUCH farther but it takes work of course . 

[Data-Zero]

4 hours ago, ViLeDeth said:

 

  Hide contents

When I was young I had training wheels on my bike. I removed them after I got the hang of things.

  Hide contents

I won't judge you for wanting to keep yours on forever.

 

That comment though, i find aggravating.

You assume that because i prefer Carrier, I am a loser in this game who needs hand holding? Get off your meta bike and check your tires. You are running on flat tire with nail in it. Yes, I can read your hidden spoiler messages, but isn't it still telling that "GIT GUD scrub"? (Why the hell people butcher from Get Good to GIt Gud? I would like an explanation for that. Thank you in advance). And also, because of my training wheels, while you are dealing a flat tire and lack of an air pump, I'm using my training wheels to continue riding my bike to home to repair my flat tire.

 

Now onto the topic at hand.

The issue what I see between Kubro (not a typo) vs Sentinel is the time to make them viable. And even then, it's about convenience to me. At the current time, Kubros are not worth the effort and resources in my honest opinion.

Survival part:
 

Spoiler

Kubrows survivability depends on your warframes stats and if its AI does not get sudden case of stupid. Sentinels survivability is a constant (stat wise) and depends on your agility aka moving around, taking cover from enemy fire and not tanking Bombards AOE attack with your face. Kubro will follow you as well, but where it will sit down depends on its AI.

I can take a Sentinel and it can survive most of the time, unless an AOE attack that I tank or toxic proc from eximus. I can take my Kubro and it can die because it needs to rush close to kill (including certain scumbucket of an eximus). And if I run Inaros or other high armor level Frame, it can survive the conflict. Running with shield based Frame, there is a bigger chance that your Kubro is down and turned into a hamburger. It also does not help that Kubro is a large target and thus has bigger chance to get hit from random fire and I cannot choose exactly who my Kubro should attack.

There is on mod that can increase Kubros survival rate. Pack Leader is a mod that heals a Kubro by a percentage of the damage dealt by a player with melee attacks. It works with abilities, making it very viable with Valkyr Hysteria, Exalted blade and Primal Fury. But in order to make that mod useful. you must put yourself in melee range AKA in Danger.

The mod is good for allowing your companion to regain health giving them an advantage over sentinels lacking that kind of mod (Not talking about Rejuvenation), but placing you in the line of enemy fire. Not a very good trade for me.

Sentinels can have 2 lives with mod but no reviving. Kubrows can be revived. I have no problem with that part and find it fair.

Intresting is, that if your Kubro dies and then you die, your Kubro will not be revived if you do. Sentinels do. Not cool Kubro, not cool.

End Word:
Kubro and sentinels both can survive a lot, but one of them is more likely and willing to run towards enemy and get killed. Courageous but risky with varying degrees of reward. Pack Leader can increase Kubro survival rate, but at the risk of getting downed yourself.

That is end for survivability section.

Utility part:
 

Spoiler

So far Carrier and its Shiny bro are on top of utility part. With vacuum I can continue killing and surviving and not to worry about running to the loot to pick it up. For new players and those who do not have massive resources piled up (including me), find Vacuum pretty valuable. With Looter, crates will be shot open without me having do anything. Kubro has Retrive mod on Chesa breed, that breaks open containers and picks up non-mod items as it walks over them. However, Vacuum sucks up all items in its effective radius, Retrive needs Kubro to walk over it and with mods, pick it up and bring it to you.

Other sentinels have their own unique mods, but most of them are about combat unless you are Detective Helios. Then there is Coolant Leak for sentinels. Small radius, but can give you enough time to dodge roll yourself away from getting a cleaver to your cranium.

About shield restoration. Sentinels have a mod that allows all sentinels to replenish shields. Kubro only has Raksa breed that allows it. Take it as you want, but I like the Guardian more than Protect because isn't unique mod.

Then there happened to appear Sacrifice. A mod that appeared as an error in update 10.6. Sacrifice allows a Sentinel to revive its owner at the cost of its own life. Does not work with Regen. It appeared transmute table as a bug that got fixed. Some players still have it. Take it as you want as well.

But both of them have dome shield that deploys when reviving. Points for both, but Kubro mod gets extra for being uncommon one.

There is a benefit of making your sentinel not attack and not drawing aggro towards it. Remove attack precept and you do not have to worry about it firing and ruining your stealth run. Kubro can attack even in stealth if enemy has been turned into alert status. That bit of info was mainly for stealthing, otherwise its useless in combat.

Some Kubro mods are more effective and powerful than their Sentinel counterparts. If you need to be invisible and lack Loki. Huras will beat Shade in that department.

Sentinels have a small advantage in modding as well, since their weapon is a different item, allowing it to be modded as you want + needs 1 mod to be active. Kubro has 2 damage mods which need to be installed with Kubro other mods, limiting modding possibilities a bit. They have small benefit of having no need for attack mods since its already "installed" into AI.

End of utility section.

THE Damage
 

Spoiler

Kubros deal high damage. However, a fully modded sentinel weapon can out DPS it.

Another flaw of the Kubro is that it is slash damage only. Sentinel weapons can deal other damage types (depends on modding).

I do not have much to say about it, expect explosive proc sweeper is insanely useful and I tend to use my sentinel for their abilities, not for their DPS potential.

The Cost:
 

Spoiler

For new players, the cost for Kubro might be too much without the segment upgrade, which need MR 5 to own. Sentinels have only build cost.

The DNA stabilizers will take a chunk out of their credit stash. In my early days, 75 000 credits was a big deal.

Also Kubro stats decrease, but one of them can be fixed with a daily pat. 3 working pats per day is kinda "Why?" territory for me.

There aren't any issues in costs besides the fact it might be cost defective to maintain a Kubro. Even if you forma'd your Kubro many times to be a Cerberus incarnate.

Emotional connection:
 

Spoiler

I do not have much to say in it. Only that I get angry if someone downs my Doge. If my sentinel dies, i do not care about it.

Its the investment in it that makes me and/or other people care about those fluffy balls of fleas. it might actually justify the cost for some. I did justify for me to keep aDorkable out of stasis so i could pat it daily and just watch it act like a doge. giving somekind of an atmosphere in my ship.

End word:

On equipment importance and my experience of survivability, Kubrows sit behind sentinels, BUT it will rain fire before I consign my aDorkable to Lotus.

Your opinion might be diffrent from me and that is okay. Someone can write a better post than me and i would be intrested in reading that.

I am intrested in the Kawats however and if they can tip the scales. My guess, Carrier will remain most useful because of its Vacuum mod.

Possible fixes to make Kubro awesome IMO:
 

Spoiler

- Either make Vacuum useable by everyone or remove it (rage and possible negative backlash)
- allow me to command my Kubro. (Attack, where to sit down etc)
- Allow Kubro to run around your ship, making a mess of things.

I need a life. I spend crapton of time on this thing that might end up as "TL;DR - Too Long, Didn't Read"

Edited May 9, 2016 by Data-Zero
Highlights and small addons.

[Rex13568]

All im seeing are people complaining about kubros or defending them but what I want to see is people proposeing ideas about how they need to be fixed 

Ps Dirga master race my dirga can do 1000s of damage with a single hit with 100% status (blast plus corrosive)

Pps I hate tiny phone screens