Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Grolgoth]

I think that the 'shards' created by Polarize are an interesting concept, and I like how they have some synergy with Magnetize, but I think that Pull should also have an effect on them. Being able to use Pull to move the shards around would be useful for moving shards into the radius of Magnetize, and maybe could also be used to deal slash damage to enemies by pulling the shards through the air.

I also think that removing the scaling from Mag's Polarize was not a good idea. Flat damage abilities in general should be avoided, because they are only really useful in lower level missions. I hope that the scaling is added back into this ability, because that is the only real problem I have with Mag's rework.

[FrackingBiscuit]

Instead of focusing synergies around Magnetize, I think they should be based on Polarize.

Pull is a CC ability, so boosting its damage will never really be useful (except against very low level enemies, but in that case just about anything is useful).  But more importantly, pulling an enemy in Magnetize removes them from the bubble, so it's really never a good idea.  At the end of the day it's better just to shoot a Magnetized enemy rather than pull them.

Crush is, again, a poor damage-dealing AOE, which used to be fairly common in Warframe.  The problem was always that it dealt a flat amount of damage, so it has a hard limit on how long it remains useful.  But whereas other similar abilities like Avalanche got debuff/CC elements to increase their usefulness, Crush got another (flat) damage component with Magnetize.  This really doesn't scale well, for the same reason Crush never scaled well, so in the end it's still better to shoot than to Crush.

Rather than boosting these abilities against Magnetized enemies, I think these effects should kick in while used inside the Polarize bubble.  Aside from alleviating the above problems, it would enable Mag to move about and use her powers more freely throughout a battle, rather than concentrating them on small, pre-plotted areas.  I would also suggest modifying them both so instead of just a flat damage boost - which, to reiterate, is not particularly useful - they should add some other mechanic.  

Instead of Pull having a chance to spawn energy orbs from slain enemies, knowing that it's fairly difficult to get kills with Pull past a certain point, Pulling a Polarized enemy should have a chance to produce energy in some way, and/or some linger debilitating effect (impaired movement or accuracy, reduced damage, etc.).  

For Crush, I would suggest implementing the effect of the Fracturing Crush augment (augments HAVE been folded into their abilities before, so I think there's a precedence for this change).  This would mean that Crushing enemies inside the Polarize bubble would strip 50% of their armor and immobilize them for 7 seconds after casting.  As for Fracturing Crush, I would suggesting giving it a Polarize-style shrapnel effect - Crushed enemies produce shards the same way as Polarize, which can be attracted by Magnetize to deal extra damage.

And lastly, as many other have suggested, revert Polarize to use percentage values instead of flat damage values as - once more, with feeling - flat values means Polarize has a hard limit on how long its damage remains effective.

Edited May 28, 2016 by FrackingBiscuit

[BBOTAA]

6 hours ago, ZurekMorraff said:

I love Mag. She was my Gateway-Drug to Warframe. She still holds 12% of my 1264 hours. The only Frame who surpases her in play time is Frost Prime, by a meager 1%.

I was so excited and ready to see what DE would do with her when they revealed she would be getting a rework! When they began to talk and show her new powers, i was so happy. She's even more amazing now then she ever was, and she always has been, at least in my eyes.

They began going over passives, however, and I was met with... unenthusiastic remarks, from those around me, and even from the Devs themselves... "She has a small vaccume on bulletjump", they all said, like they were sweeping dust under a rug, just to get it out of the way... The Stalker may have cut deeply into my frame, but those words, the tone they were always spoken in, cut deeper into my heart...

I started to look for new ideas, new ways to be more helpful, more themed, more... loved...

So many ideas, from myself, my friends, cummunity players in the odd mission...

"Maybe she could pull minerals shards from the environment when she bullet jumps, that act like the shards that will fall off the armored enemies!"

"Maybe she could get longer wall-latch because she can magnetize herself to the wall?"

"What if she drained shields from nearby units, when she bulletjumps?"

"... Magnetised them to the floor, like a knockdown when she bulletjumps..."

"... got Shields, or even energy, from Magnetic procs..."

"... increased nearby allies shields..."

"... "Magnetised" projectiles like a rail-gun, increasing their projectile flight speed..."

"... Has a chance to "repell" magnetic proced enemies that come to close..."

Each time I heard a new idea, I had hope the team would change their mind. With so many ideas, they must have been getting back to them, in some amount... Maybe they did, and just wern't heard, or seen as moving in a direction they didn't want to push her into... I'm not sure where theings went, how they got there, but i'm not giving up yet... 

 

Make Mag, Mag.

The Magnetizing, Shield Polarizing, Enemy Crushing, Unit Pulling, Corpus Killing, Grineer Shreding, Infested Clensing, Beauty of a frame she was always ment to be, and has finally become.

Please, take another look at her passive, take a moment to think over some of the listed ideas...

... Even if Mag's passive is here to stay, Thank you for your time. Thank you for your efforts. Thank you for making such an amazing game.

Thank you for Mag.

Almost made me cry! xD lol
Now serious,they need to change that passive and restore polarize.
Edit: and btw that pull sound, I know you can do better DE.

Edited May 28, 2016 by BBOTAA

[Aeryes]

I'll keep this short and sweet. This is definitely a step in the right direction. I'm all for more involvement and synergies being added to the frames, loved Saryns rework and I love the idea of Mags.

However the percentage damage on her polarize absolutely has to be restored. She may not have been exceptional against all enemies prior to this rework but against corpus or just in the void she was a god tier frame as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately without that scaling she feels almost Oberon tier. The new mechanics are fun sure but she needs to scale.

EDIT:

A good idea would be to separate crush and polarize. Other than the brief CC crush is still extremely boring and simple compared to all of her other abilities. Return polarize to its original functionality so it deals with shields in percent damage form. Make it so crush is what removes all armor so it has a use other than damage given its damage kind of sucks and its CC is useless since we have pull. Perhaps make its health damage scale based on the amount of armor the enemy had. And lastly make both deal more damage to magnetized targets and have it so CRUSH is the ability which creates shrapnel. It doesn't make sense that SHIELD polarize would do anything to armor. Where as crushing an opponents armor does make sense and therefore the shrapnel being created from that also makes sense.

It may seem like I'm describing the same abilities except you push one button for corpus and one button for grineer and that is true to an extent. But let's be honest other than looking cool has Crush ever really been useful? And even after this rework it remains the most boring ability and as an "ultimate" is extremely underwhelming in both damage and utility. This idea sticks with the combos but gives both different feels.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Aeryes

[T.Emberlily]

20 hours ago, FelisImpurrator said:

RIP Mag, Bane of Corpus.

All hail Mag, Bane of Everything.

Did all of you just take your old builds with total dump stat duration and expect to hit Polarize to nuke the map like the old days? Well, I've got some news for you: You may perhaps be doing it wrong.

Build some Duration for once in your lives. Don't expect pushing one button to do all the work for you. Have you even tried learning how her new abilities work? Have you perhaps noticed that Magnetize sets up four giant, bullet-blocking, enemy-shredding orbs that direct everything you fire at them straight into enemy faces? Have you perhaps observed that Polarize, while no longer oneshotting enemies forever, rips off defenses so you can pour bullets into faces several times more effectively (while also probably blasting them just hard enough to require significantly less bullet on average)? Also, you know, its armor strip is actually permanent. As in 'hello, red bars, it's been a while' permanent. Bring a gun with mag procs, and another gun with viral/heat or something, and laugh.

There is something useless here, and it's the old Press 2 to Win build. It isn't Mag. Unless you're one of those people who think spawning the full amount of max level Corrupted Gunners (with an ancient to buff them all), or rating everything for 60 minutes T4 Survival solo, is a realistic and scientific benchmark.

Wait a second. Did you just say they 'just' lose all armor? Lose all armor? Uh... really? That's insignificant? Welp.

I guess people just love Press [Nuke Button] to Win too much.

I would honestly love to see your build, I tried all sorts of combos of mods/abilities and had next to no affect on any enemies past level 70. It took me 7+ casts to remove a level 100's armor, so where you are getting all this armor shred is beyond me (and I was testing Polarize with 275% strength, so... yeah I'd love to see a build that actually works like you say it does. If you could supply an actual build, or a screenshot or something, I'd be happy to try it out and see how well the new mag works, because currently I see a mag that's far less effective than the previous one.

[jinxeverything]

Using Saryn as an example for Maggie rework was a mistake DE, Maggie is not a close quarter frame she is a caster frame that needs to keep her distant from enemies no matter what.

Saryn has over 150 armor, Mag have 65 which means you can't build her for Rage as a way to generate energy, few hits and Mag dies and she can't regen health without wasting more energy with life strike.

Energy pool is too low and can't support her ability spam, either give her a way to energy regen, something that's doesn't put her at risk but a bit maybe complex or increase her energy pool by 100-150 (maybe a lot but....) or reduce ability cost when we use abilities on each other.

Magnetize :

• This ability needs a bit faster "pulling" of enemies, maybe more power strength = faster enemy pull?
• More range as the base range is rather small.

Polarize :

• Armor stripping need visual effect that shows they lost their armor, right now i can't tell at all.
• The travel time is too slow even with Natural Talent.
• Fixed damage that does not scale is not a good thing, it needs to scale with power strength and enemy's shields/ armor just like how it used to.
• I would rather this ability to store all the damage it calculated (shields/ armor don't deplete but convert into damage) then release it in one big explosion in the ability radius.
•  This ability needs a better range, just a bit more.

Crush :

• 4th ability is the ultimate ability in the game not just an ability that gives the second ability a bit of omph, it needs to the be the most powerful thing which means if it going to add something to any other ability then the power most be insane.
•  Shouldn't Crush be something that crush enemies yet it does not? it is time to rework the ability into something that increase the gravity around Mag to Crushing point for a limited amount of time, surviving enemies should be crippled as in slower movement as a result of harsh gravity CC!

Good rework but it's not finished yet, get back to drawing board and start with our feedback in mind.

Also remember this DE, Mag is not a brawler / close quarter frame, she is a support frame, support frames aren't meant to face tank enemies nor stay close to them to CC them. 

 

[Gilmaesh]

Random feedback, i took mag for the last sortie grineer interception physical enhancement puncture, mag is fragile ( but those type of sorties hit too hard anyway) but damage wise i was on top (by a large marging), and a lot of mobs had their armor removed. Spammed pull to protect points, some magnetize and some polarize everything thanks to zenurik, (still no use of the ultimate). there was a ash/loki/equinox with me and no CP.

Spoiler

I still want more base energy for mag and maybe more shield or armor for the prime. but hey, mag is dead anyway

8 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

• Armor stripping need visual effect that shows they lost their armor, right now i can't tell at all.

Health bar of enemies are red when no armor / yellow with armor.

edit: ah i want to say i don't like the new pull sound, old one was better. (just a detail but still)

Edited May 28, 2016 by Gilmaesh

[Bearded_Donut]

Everything is good with this rework except projectiles passing thru the bubbles and fixed polarize damage. DE, roll back to % damage and fix bubbles and this rework would be a candy.

[SchadowfighterX]

(Dear DE,

we all knew that Mag needed a rework because she was a bit too op with shield polarize (1shot high-lvl corpus), but do you really have to render her 2 best abilities almost completely useless? (magnetize is fun but is it really relevant? )

Pull: nearly the same as before

Magnetize: kinda fun, seeing enemies being pulled to the "magnetized target" (like a black hole :D) but do we really need another vauban? after some testing I figured out how it might work: If you "magnetize" an enemy and he dies the magnetize-field still remains till the timer runs out. After that it explodes and deals a lot of dmg if youve casted polarize and shot some bullets in.

Polarize: what should I say about this..?? Corpus shields are barely touched on high-tier enemies because of the fixed number...and what about the armor decrease? is it also fixed number with a limit e.g just -100 armor?, because it cant even remove a single pixel from the enemies armor bar on high-tier (lvl 100 heavy gunners because it works on butcher and they both have the same armor type)... so why would we ever want a wf with a not 100% working cp abilitiy if we can easily run 3-4 cp auras that work 100%? 

crush: its ok.. i think)

FORGET ALL OF THIS!

after some playing on draco (not simulacrum!) I suddenly realized how awesome mag can be after the rework. sure she wont be the corpus killing machine as before but now she can be used also against grineer! (she can be quite decent)

I dont know how to describe it but i somehow like her rework! 

the same happend after the new saryn rework was released. at first I didnt like it cuz i was used to "press 4 to win". after some testing i figured out how to use saryn properly. at that moment saryn became my main wf. 

so for all those disclaimer out there. try to figure out how to use mag properly!

 

Thx DE for the new better Mag (im not joking)

 

maybe give her just a slight dmg buff to make her more effective in high lvl

Edited May 29, 2016 by SchadowfighterX
1. impression=meh 2.= I LOVE IT

[RIOT]

All enemies within magnetize should receive extra damage from pull and crush, not just the target that had magnetize cast on them.
To compensate, reduce the multiplier for pull and the extra damage from crush against enemies within magnetize.


Current example: X = target that magnetize was cast on.
                            Y = targets within magnetize.
 cast Pull & Crush (300 & 1500 damage respectively) on X, X receives 600 from pull and 3000 from crush, Y receives 300 and 1500.

Now with the suggested change:
Same scenario, all targets within magnetize take 450 from pull and 2350 from crush.

all targets in magnetize take 50% more damage from pull and crush deals an additional 850 damage, instead of just 1 enemy receiving 100% more damage from pull and 1500 damage from crush.

just my 2 ducats.

Edited May 28, 2016 by RIOT

[Jaysus41]

When I played around with Mag and the Mag-Lanka strategy (bug, w/e) I thought it was fairly interesting and kinda fun. That is... until I had the misfortune of running into a Lanka-Mag during the Proxy Rebellion alert today. Here's some cliffnotes:

• I got pulled off of a player i was reviving because of Magnetize spam
• Since Magnetize hijacks your bullets, I couldn't get consistent headshots to activate Argon Scope
• Magentize's explosions make it incredibly difficult to aim
• The Lanka bullet that was whizzing around like an angry hornet on cocaine murdered my Sentinel, and probably some of my teammates
• Spent most of the mission standing around because the Mag was getting the vast majority of the kills

Without the Mag, I'm certain the alert would have been a fairly enjoyable experience. But with it I couldn't wait until it was over, just get my potato and move on. At least before the rework Mag didn't eviscerate your teammates as well as the enemies.

[Enderlook]

I disappointed in the rework of Mag.

Polarize (polarize shields): It was weakened catastrophically although even turn from a 2 to a 3. It may affect the grinner (something that I do not care personally) but against shields became insignificant, no longer works in percent but in flat numbers. No longer scale with the enemy and that is wrong, that rise above the skill level (2> 3) lost force.
Proposal A: percentage should work, at least in the shield (so does not lose strength ability).
Proposal B: I do not really like this, but it should work in flat numbers and performing explosion should be combined with other explosions and not just receive each enemy AN explosion.

Sorry for my english. And I do not mean to seem aggressive, if I look.

PD: Polarize need a little more range if it will be so weakened (or affect the duration or distance range) and by weakening polarize, greatly weakened the syndicate mod"transfer shield".

Edited June 1, 2016 by Enderlook
Add PD

[jinxeverything]

10 minutes ago, Gilmaesh said:

Health bar of enemies are red when no armor / yellow with armor.

Guess my UI is bugged because i never see red health bar, i tested different power strength builds and still nothing :/

[SchadowfighterX]

1 minute ago, Prinny13 said:

Guess my UI is bugged because i never see red health bar, i tested different power strength builds and still nothing :/

maybe polarize is a bit bugged or the armor decrease is capped

[sharkexpert12]

31 minutes ago, SchadowfighterX said:

maybe polarize is a bit bugged or the armor decrease is capped

its a flat number the number of casts required increases as levels go up so in other words 4cp still a thing mag rework disappointing to fans of mag and this update did nothing to fix any of her real issues only added to that list. 

[Alanbot]

DE needs to actually sit down and stream a high level game like Sorties and Raids using Mag. See how fun it goes

[MattHarrigan]

Basically, this...

54 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

Polarize :

• Fixed damage that does not scale is not a good thing, it needs to scale with power strength and enemy's shields/ armor just like how it used to.

 

 

[GrimAtrament]

1 minute ago, Alanbot said:

DE needs to actually sit down and stream a high level game like Sorties and Raids using Mag. See how fun it goes

they did that with mag already

it went fine

Edited May 28, 2016 by hazerddex

[Alanbot]

Did they really, I thought they never move past streaming in star charts and Void.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

22 hours ago, Latiac said:

So I decided to take the reworked Mag out for a spin against some Corpus. That was probably not the best idea.

 

I started off by testing the abilities, Magnetise worked well, but failed to do much, it's probably gonna eb another 2 that I won't ever need to use.

Now here comes the storm, Polarise.

 

I expected Polarise to stay relatively the same, just with an M prime spread affect. However when it failed to kill shielded corpus enemies in a level 12 node I started having my doubts. Pull was doing more damage. That's pretty bad.

 

Crush is in a 'better' position but is still pretty awful. Mag was mainly useful because Polarise scaled well in the late game. Now I'm not so sure.

 

Never thought i'd say this but DE, you've outdone yourself again, This nerf makes Saryn look good.

I think saryn is a great and fun frame. This mag rework however is terrible. So far u have literally killed three frames. Noone will bothrr playing them anymore. Mag is now nothing more than Mastery Rank fodder

[RiouHotaru]

15 minutes ago, Alanbot said:

DE needs to actually sit down and stream a high level game like Sorties and Raids using Mag. See how fun it goes

I ran today's Sortie and it was fine.  Mag has the usual problems against Grineer in that Bleed procs ignore your shields but otherwise it was a massacre.  That Lanka + Magnetize is amazing.

Also you forget there's a damage multiplier with Crush and Pull.  Watch Rob from AGGP about the Mag rework.

[Zhoyzu]

21 hours ago, -Vernoc- said:

Is it just me or is our good old corpus killer no longer able to kill a single high level enemies no matter how u combine her abilities?

Bevore the rework Mag was an amazing frame.She killed low-lv all enemys with ult and against high-lv corpus she was a beast cause polarice was % dmg and scaled with enemy shield...but now after the change Mag can´t kill anything with a bit more shield/health... Imo the rework should be removed at all or get changed to deal % dmg and not fix numbers.

=======

 

I thought this was a thread were you were gonna offer feedback. My bad, ill be going elsewhere

[Nosferagon]

Gonna be honest, apart of Polarize needing some scaling back (not as harsh as before though i think a middle ground could be achieved), i think the changes are great.

My only concern now is that her ult feels weak compared to magnetize xD

[OX_xOlyvionx_XO]

Kinda wished she have that 100% armor removal just like booben, ash, banshee, and trinity because it would help the team greatly for both factions not just one of them.

[malekas]

1 hour ago, Gilmaesh said:

Random feedback, i took mag for the last sortie grineer interception physical enhancement puncture, mag is fragile ( but those type of sorties hit too hard anyway) but damage wise i was on top (by a large marging), and a lot of mobs had their armor removed. Spammed pull to protect points, some magnetize and some polarize everything thanks to zenurik, (still no use of the ultimate). there was a ash/loki/equinox with me and no CP.

  Reveal hidden contents

I still want more base energy for mag and maybe more shield or armor for the prime. but hey, mag is dead anyway

Health bar of enemies are red when no armor / yellow with armor.

edit: ah i want to say i don't like the new pull sound, old one was better. (just a detail but still)

Same result with me.

 

People, stop basing your opinion of Mag based around what you see in the Simulacrum. Take her to a real mission and see how it feels. I've been out damaging Saryns, Ash, and anything else.

http://i.imgur.com/ej04eXw.jpg