Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[PB_Miracle]

35 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Like people are saying over in the Nullifier thread, the problem isn't inability to fight/kill Nullifiers. It's the fact that you have to do so in a restrictive lose-lose manner. "Just entering the bubble" forces you to lose buffs. "Just shoot the bubble" falls short when your weapons don't behave correctly (low ROF, shotguns). That, plus the common nature of nullifiers, makes a terrible unit. The possibility to fight something in some way does not invalidate it being unfun or unfair to other approaches.

They should be split up into different unit types; we already have the first one: the "beefy close-range cast denial" Comba/Scrambus (with better counterplay, headshooting the helmets). Follow that up with a power immunisation sphere unit, which still leaves targets vulnerable to bullets (Arctic Eximi globes already cover that), an ally-cleansing/enemy-buff-dispelling unit (that doesn't delete harmless objects like goddamn Ivara ziplines), and make them all appropriately uncommon to rare spawns depending on impact and you have the start of diverse enemies with compelling target priority differences depending on squad needs.

 

Saying 'nullifiers are the only unit that stops us cheesing' actually highlights the problem. If one unit is the only bastion of anticheese, then it's binary gameplay. If Nullifier then no. Kill Nullifier then yes, until new Nullifier.

True!

[Dan1lo]

I just did the 3 "t4" void missions leading to Mot with Solo mag (not prime) with an orokin reactor equipped with a rank 29 lanka, 27 lex and dragon nikana and my trusty chesa kubrow. The dragon nikana is my saviour for high level enemies, because I usually bring the other two weapons to level up.

I died 3 times in the first mobile defense because I got prone to shotgun hits in the head, but I also managed to juke corrupted vor, bombards and heavy gunners thanks to magnetize and polarize (shield transference augment is an amazing life saver)

Although I wish I had more powerful weapons to aid me, just that simple combo was enough to take me out of trouble in the first mission (and shield the terminal).

Whenever a nullifier appeared, I killed him with 2 melee hits and quickly dashed away to take care of other threats.

On sabotage, magnetize completely destroyed Lynx and his ospreys.

So... All in all, I think mag's rework IS doing great AND is useful on high level missions, even with high level nullifier appearences and even corrupted nullifiers, which are stronger.

[tnccs215]

The problem with nullifiers is that they are anti-cheese units in a game not all frames are capable of cheese, and no frame should be capable of cheese.

As someone said before, it's all fine and dandy when your frame doesn't require powers to survive. When they do, however, you are screwed.

Lets be honest, the last shield factor Mag had was Magnetize's interaction with beam weapons. That thing is gone, and she was left in a pretty good place-- though weapons that rely on crit and multishot still get the short end of the stick.-- but Nullifiers simply screwed her.

Because nullies are applying anti-cheese measure against frames that don't need it. Ad they do more than that. They not only prevent powers, they protect themselves, enemies around them, etc.

That is why Combas and Scrambus are enemies much better designed. They are durable, but can be disabled with a well placed shot. Nullies, don't.

Not to mention how nullies affect some frames harder than others. Toxic lash is off? No prob either, recast it. Iron skin is off? Great, now it can get to full power again. Oh, are you relying on the speed reduction from pacify to survive? Well too bad, you are going to loose it and possibly screw the rest of he mission.

Not to mention how they are frickin snipers. Getting one-shoted withou warning isn't fun. Getting randomly dead just because is not engaging gameplay. At least give them the same treatment ballistas got. But oh, no.

I'm really, really salty, it is true, because honestly, I think that nullifiers are a coward move. They were introduced because DE didn't want to handle the backlash of nerfing overpowered, cheesie powers. Now that is changing, and their existence becomes less and less justified. Specially when some frames are designed to need the powers to survive.

[TheLexiConArtist]

5 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

The problem with nullifiers is that they are anti-cheese units in a game not all frames are capable of cheese, and no frame should be capable of cheese.

As someone said before, it's all fine and dandy when your frame doesn't require powers to survive. When they do, however, you are screwed.

 

I'm really, really salty, it is true, because honestly, I think that nullifiers are a coward move. They were introduced because DE didn't want to handle the backlash of nerfing overpowered, cheesie powers. Now that is changing, and their existence becomes less and less justified. Specially when some frames are designed to need the powers to survive.

Exactly what I was saying back there. By being the one-stop-shop for protection they just give an un-nuanced, totally binary 'yes/no' to all Warframes, from the Slash Dash to the Bladestorm, the Invisibility to the Shatter Shield. Doesn't matter how they work differently to achieve a similar outcome, everything is just yes or no because Nullifiers handle everything all on their lonesome.

Trouble is, I've seen this in a few games now, both competitive and cooperative; you get the crowd that posts that old fallacy: "If everything is OP, nothing is". But that's simply not true. If everything is OP, everything is still OP, it just means that volatility increases and grace to the players decreases.

In a cooperative environment like ours here, four different Warframes that clear or disable an entire map with one cast aren't any less OP just because they can all do it - it just means there's a race for who can push the button first, latecomers just don't contribute.

In a competitive environment, both sides being OP doesn't mean neither are; it just means that the first person to slip up slightly is just screwed from then on without the grace to recoup the loss, adapt and try to counteract the other taking advantage of the vulnerability they left open.

[RealPandemonium]

IMO if your frame actually requires powers powers to survive, you're in overtuned content and the problem is the enemies' levels before anything else.  I have no trouble surviving in level 60 content with 300/300 frames without defensive mods, and I'll bring Redirection or QT on frames that are particularly vulnerable (like Loki.)  This is without (ab)using powers to augment survivability; just gunning and swording things normally.

Level 70+ enemies just do way too much damage relative to frame base stats; they were not designed to coexist and the fact that they do now is a result of bandaids (overtuned weapon damage, mass CC, invuln/invis, Zenrurik/Naramon/Trinityspam) helping to conceal the rotten core of Warframe's gameplay at that level. 

As I have said before, as long as you are dealing with normal enemy spawns in pre-70, non Nightmare/T4 content, Nullifiers are fair game for all frames.  It's only when it comes to overtuned levels/damage and perhaps the Void fissure constant drop-spawns (I haven't tested these enough with a decent loadout to definitively comment) that they become straight unreasonable.

Edited July 11, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[tnccs215]

16 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

IMO if your frame actually requires powers powers to survive, you're in overtuned content and the problem is the enemies' levels before anything else.  I have no trouble surviving in level 60 content with 300/300 frames without defensive mods, and I'll bring Redirection or QT on frames that are particularly vulnerable (like Loki.)  This is without (ab)using powers to augment survivability; just gunning and swording things normally.

Level 70+ enemies just do way too much damage relative to frame base stats; they were not designed to coexist and the fact that they do now is a result of bandaids (overtuned weapon damage, mass CC, invuln/invis, Zenrurik/Naramon/Trinityspam) helping to conceal the rotten core of Warframe's gameplay at that level. 

As I have said before, as long as you are dealing with normal enemy spawns in pre-70, non Nightmare/T4 content, Nullifiers are fair game for all frames.  It's only when it comes to overtuned levels/damage and perhaps the Void fissure constant drop-spawns (I haven't tested these enough with a decent loadout to definitively comment) that they become straight unreasonable.

Welp. Than I suppose DE should get to do some balancing. Im not the first saying it, but no one really knows what's supposed to be our "maximum bearable" enemy level, or if it should exist, or if it should cap. Etc.

Progression in warframe got fixed, that's Good. Now we have to know what are our limits

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, tnccs215 said:

 

Progression in warframe got fixed, that's Good. 

Not even close.  Let's hope they actually do this, though.  

[tnccs215]

5 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Not even close.  

You don't consider the updated starchart a much better progression system?

 

[RealPandemonium]

3 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

You don't consider the updated starchart a much better progression system?

 

Progression comes in the forms of gaining mods once, then the game becomes trivial.  The star chart reform is nice, but is not at the core of the game's progression issue.  

[kristophy]

On 6/17/2016 at 10:00 AM, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

I think there should be 2 separate feedback here.

1. Those that don't like the rework because they think it is a "nerf"
2. Those that just don't like the rework because the new gameplay is not fun

I fall into the 2nd category. I'm well aware that the rework has its wonder, but I don't find it fun vs previous build. This is a matter of preference. My old Mag was an "on-the-go" and the new Mag is "grounded". I will be using Mag less often now because she no longer fit my gameplay.  

i am going to say both because well she plays a little better she dose not sound amazing any more! so she is more fun but lost it in being horrible at amazing noises that she used to make .

[kristophy]

On 7/11/2016 at 11:36 AM, RealPandemonium said:

IMO if your frame actually requires powers powers to survive, you're in overtuned content and the problem is the enemies' levels before anything else.  I have no trouble surviving in level 60 content with 300/300 frames without defensive mods, and I'll bring Redirection or QT on frames that are particularly vulnerable (like Loki.)  This is without (ab)using powers to augment survivability; just gunning and swording things normally.

Level 70+ enemies just do way too much damage relative to frame base stats; they were not designed to coexist and the fact that they do now is a result of bandaids (overtuned weapon damage, mass CC, invuln/invis, Zenrurik/Naramon/Trinityspam) helping to conceal the rotten core of Warframe's gameplay at that level. 

As I have said before, as long as you are dealing with normal enemy spawns in pre-70, non Nightmare/T4 content, Nullifiers are fair game for all frames.  It's only when it comes to overtuned levels/damage and perhaps the Void fissure constant drop-spawns (I haven't tested these enough with a decent loadout to definitively comment) that they become straight unreasonable.

as weird as it sounds! level 60 is still low level in this game! so yea mag needs to not kill every thing and have balanced scaling! and good sounds!

[Dracario]

On 7/10/2016 at 2:11 PM, ExteriorJungle4 said:

I like the ideas. Provides more synergy than current Mag has, so not bad on that department.

I like the suggestion on Pull, nothing wrong with that.

The fact that Magnetize does not keep enemies sucked in sometimes is a real pain in the &#!. I'd say have Magnetize work on both enemies and surfaces though, so if you really need some tanky Grineer boss dead, you cast it on him/her for increased damage on that target. The different interactions of weapon types is nice, I like that a bunch.

Polarize very much needs scaling back. The lack of it really hurts Mag's end game reliability. Also, we best make sure that cap of 70% strip isn't the hardest to get to, otherwise we are right back to the old Mag builds and Magnetize gets forgotten. However, for 70% strip, that does usually weaken enemies enough that the scaled damage finishes them off, making the ability worth that 75 power cost.

For the Crush changes, I am a bit curious on how that would work out. If she passively collects shards to make her progressively more tanky (Not a bad idea, actually a really good one), how would she then use them for Crush? Would crush kinda work like Scarab Armor on Inaros, where he can charge it up, but if he casts it on an enemy, a portion of it is taken away? I think that would probably be best, and it works out in making Crush more viable late game. Been collecting up a bunch of shards? Use some of those bad boys to wipe a particularly nasty room!

And the buffed energy I am 100% for. My biggest problem with Mag is not toxin or slash procs, I have medi-ray on Carrier to help with that. It is not shields, that is what Shield Transference is for. Nope, it's running out of energy, because Mag shares the lowest base amount, with no real easy way to get it back. At least Saryn can run Rage reasonably well. Rage on a Mag just seems silly.

 

All in all, this would be a far better set of re-worked abilities than the one we got. In her current state, the only reason I use Mag on 90% of my missions is because I love her to bits. I can get more CC stun off of Excalibur, more boss take-down potential out of Rhino, better aoe nuke out of Saryn, and better ult out of... Just about any other CC frame in the game.

And the shutting down of choke-points? Not after the buff to the nulli's. Why they were buffed, I have no idea.

the Scarab Armor idea sounds pretty fun imo.

I had an alternate idea of either a risky choice for good payout. If the mag player picks up the shards (or Pulled by Greedy Pull) their armor will increase by a percentage. If you NEED to use crush to dispatch a bunch of enemies then you can use Crush. It'll dispel all your armor you collected but it will increase the damage dealt to all enemies caught in crush. If you need survivability just keep the armor on or Polarize again so the enemies you want dead have less armor and more shards to pick up afterwards. Crush then collect.

As for the 70% cap, Im not sure if i want to change the current builds we all put on Mag. Since damage mult. on magnetize is kinda a bonus (it feels that way to me), I'd say at least 150% power strength will cap Polarize shred. So a transient fortitude is all that is purely needed..

As for Magnetize, I agree it should also be casted on surfaces because I'm super tired of wasting energy on an enemies that dies when casted upon it. Enemy or Surface sounds good.

Nullies are bad enemies in general. If they were changed i would go with turning them into Melee units instead, weak ones though.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Mags rework is acceptable. Nullifiers are killing this game.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Mags rework is acceptable. Nullifiers are killing this game.

Other aspects yes, but Magnetise being horribly (negatively) bugged is not acceptable. Fixing positively-bugged continuous weapons made them negatively-bugged, bringing the "working at or above intended level" weapon set down to no-multishot-or-pellets, no-crit, direct-damage-only weapons.

Such a weapon doesn't even exist (multishot being a 'mandatory mod' to begin with). All functional standard weapon builds do not work correctly with Magnetise. (Not slotting multishot is not a solution, it's mitigating a problem at cost elsewhere, namely normal weapon usage.)

[Dracario]

12 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Other aspects yes, but Magnetise being horribly (negatively) bugged is not acceptable. Fixing positively-bugged continuous weapons made them negatively-bugged, bringing the "working at or above intended level" weapon set down to no-multishot-or-pellets, no-crit, direct-damage-only weapons.

Such a weapon doesn't even exist (multishot being a 'mandatory mod' to begin with). All functional standard weapon builds do not work correctly with Magnetise. (Not slotting multishot is not a solution, it's mitigating a problem at cost elsewhere, namely normal weapon usage.)

i did not know it didn't factor in multishot, pellet count, and crits. That's absurdity. Needs a big fix indeed

[Comradicus_Prime]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Mags rework is acceptable. Nullifiers are killing this game.

Acceptable is such a strong word... Let's see what the promises compared to results are

 

So first thing is first, synergy. Ember has it, Saryn has it, Volt has it, does Mag have it?

Yes... Kinda... Not to any great extent though.

Her synergy focuses around Magnetize. Not a bad idea, but how much does it work? Pull, well, you get more damage. You don't want to pull into magnetize, because while you may kill the victim, all his buddies are now flying at you, and are gonna be more than a little mad when they stand up. Polarize. Those shards do S#&$ for damage. It's like pelting them with snow. Crush. If Crush were to affect all enemies within the bubble, that would be good synergy. Nope, just that one poor bastard you rooted in place.

In conclusion, her synergy is only better than before, because she has a negligible amount now, when she used to have none.

 

Removing spamming of number 2

Pull: Has not really changed at all, and greedy pull is still meh to use after the nerf

Magnetize: I mean, it's good. Useful even. The repeated nerfs have hurt it, but is still good.

Polarize: Nerfed to the ground, oh dear lord. It is only truly effective at lower levels. Shield Transference still works, just a bit slower.

Crush: Just hasn't changed at all really... Crush is still pretty meh. Not worth the cost for a glorified stun that doesn't work half the time.

Yeah, still just hitting number 2 all the time. That failed.

 

Make her more than a Corpus Killer: Kinda

Magnetize was a buff to Bullet Attractor... But it does the same thing in concept. Slightly different in practice against standard and heavy enemies with the locking in place. So, on paper it worked to diversify what she could fight.

Problem is, she could already do that. It cost more energy, and you often did not get nearly as good of results, but BA was a good enough ability and was very useful in taking down bosses. So, while on paper she has been made more effective against all factions, that is only because Polarize was nerfed to oblivion and we have no choice but to use Magnetize now, because it is the only reliable damage output and just so happens to not discriminate between factions.

 

So, my end conclusion. No, this was not an acceptable change, this was a nerf. Her synergy is pathetic, her top ability got savagely beaten with the nerf stick, and her new "Best Ability" is something she could already do, just made cheaper and a bit more effective. A good rework for her would be like something already listed in this thread. I believe Dracario listed it out and I gave my 2 cents on it. But it more or less goes as follows, almost all credit to Dracario for bringing this up btw. Anything bold will be my current ideas for edits.

 

Pull: Kept the same, but now if aimed at Magnetize, enemies are sucked in. Extended with range.

Magnetize: The suction on it needs buffing to actually keep enemies from walking straight through like there is nothing there. Make it pull more with power strength and from farther away with Power range. Different weapon types have different effects. Hitscan = Direct Damage. Beam = Higher Damage over Time. Projectile = Innate Punch through. Make Magnetize castable on surfaces as well as on enemies, and fix the bug where if you cast on a target and the target dies prior to the animation ending, you spend energy for nothing.

Polarize: Put it back with scaling. (At the current cost, that's a no brainer. No need to double nerf by increasing cost and massively limiting effectiveness). Make it so power strength increases the percentage at a hard cap of 70% (This gives room to have an aura against armor/shields to perma-strip AND the amount of damage dealt by the now scaling blast has a good chance of finishing off fodder units). The amount of Power Strength needed should be about 150%, needing only a Transient Fortitude. Shards are dropped based upon every 5-10% of armor/shields stripped. Shards then interact with...

Crush: Now crush has a system like Inaros' Scarab Swarm. Mag now picks up the shards as her new passive, giving her a bonus to her armor by either a flat number or percentage. I would have it so that shards obtained from stripped shields count towards shields rather than armor. Note, this is normal shields, not overshields. These shards are stored on the Mag, and when she uses crush, those shards go towards increasing the damage on Crush against all enemies. This damage boost can be additive, or multiplicative. Every cast of Crush will remove 25% of Mag's shard pool, with a counter at the top of the screen like Chroma's, telling her how much bonus to shields and armor she has.

Passive: She absorbs shards now for that defensive boost. The 5 meter bullet jump suction is pathetic, and what is a Mag to use this for if she had either; Carrier, a popular sentinel, or Greedy Pull, an augment mod made just for her that does the exact same thing, but better.

Misc: Buff her max energy. As a caster frame she should not have such low energy reserves. I would put it to the same level as Saryn, though the other proposal is 500 energy with Max Flow. Not Primed Flow, normal Flow.

 

Now, this kind of rework is positive. Her passive is bad, so change it and give that tiny girl some protection and bonus damage against those who think it would be a good idea to hit on her. Her synergy is buffed, as now Pull massively aids Magnetize, and Polarize props up Crush. She is no longer "Press 2 to win" because while that would be effective, by pressing two and then one and then firing into the bubble, she can be even more effective. Crush is buffed so that it feels like an ultimate attack, capable of crushing squads in one fell swoop with the right support. Polarize is brought back from the dead to be useful again. Pull is given new life, and Magnetize... Works rather than being a buggy mess that I fire my Lanka in the general direction of.

 

The rework we have is an overall nerf, this proposed one is one that I fully support. She is back to her status as one of the Queens of CC, but now is not able to nuke the map in one go. A good Mag has to earn her daily serving of nukes.

 

Sorry this is so long, and thank you to anyone whom read this far, even if you completely disagree.

[Dracario]

45 minutes ago, ExteriorJungle4 said:

Acceptable is such a strong word... Let's see what the promises compared to results are

 

So first thing is first, synergy. Ember has it, Saryn has it, Volt has it, does Mag have it?

Yes... Kinda... Not to any great extent though.

Her synergy focuses around Magnetize. Not a bad idea, but how much does it work? Pull, well, you get more damage. You don't want to pull into magnetize, because while you may kill the victim, all his buddies are now flying at you, and are gonna be more than a little mad when they stand up. Polarize. Those shards do S#&$ for damage. It's like pelting them with snow. Crush. If Crush were to affect all enemies within the bubble, that would be good synergy. Nope, just that one poor bastard you rooted in place.

In conclusion, her synergy is only better than before, because she has a negligible amount now, when she used to have none.

 

Removing spamming of number 2

Pull: Has not really changed at all, and greedy pull is still meh to use after the nerf

Magnetize: I mean, it's good. Useful even. The repeated nerfs have hurt it, but is still good.

Polarize: Nerfed to the ground, oh dear lord. It is only truly effective at lower levels. Shield Transference still works, just a bit slower.

Crush: Just hasn't changed at all really... Crush is still pretty meh. Not worth the cost for a glorified stun that doesn't work half the time.

Yeah, still just hitting number 2 all the time. That failed.

 

Make her more than a Corpus Killer: Kinda

Magnetize was a buff to Bullet Attractor... But it does the same thing in concept. Slightly different in practice against standard and heavy enemies with the locking in place. So, on paper it worked to diversify what she could fight.

Problem is, she could already do that. It cost more energy, and you often did not get nearly as good of results, but BA was a good enough ability and was very useful in taking down bosses. So, while on paper she has been made more effective against all factions, that is only because Polarize was nerfed to oblivion and we have no choice but to use Magnetize now, because it is the only reliable damage output and just so happens to not discriminate between factions.

 

So, my end conclusion. No, this was not an acceptable change, this was a nerf. Her synergy is pathetic, her top ability got savagely beaten with the nerf stick, and her new "Best Ability" is something she could already do, just made cheaper and a bit more effective. A good rework for her would be like something already listed in this thread. I believe Dracario listed it out and I gave my 2 cents on it. But it more or less goes as follows, almost all credit to Dracario for bringing this up btw. Anything bold will be my current ideas for edits.

 

Pull: Kept the same, but now if aimed at Magnetize, enemies are sucked in. Extended with range.

Magnetize: The suction on it needs buffing to actually keep enemies from walking straight through like there is nothing there. Make it pull more with power strength and from farther away with Power range. Different weapon types have different effects. Hitscan = Direct Damage. Beam = Higher Damage over Time. Projectile = Innate Punch through. Make Magnetize castable on surfaces as well as on enemies, and fix the bug where if you cast on a target and the target dies prior to the animation ending, you spend energy for nothing.

Polarize: Put it back with scaling. (At the current cost, that's a no brainer. No need to double nerf by increasing cost and massively limiting effectiveness). Make it so power strength increases the percentage at a hard cap of 70% (This gives room to have an aura against armor/shields to perma-strip AND the amount of damage dealt by the now scaling blast has a good chance of finishing off fodder units). The amount of Power Strength needed should be about 150%, needing only a Transient Fortitude. Shards are dropped based upon every 5-10% of armor/shields stripped. Shards then interact with...

Crush: Now crush has a system like Inaros' Scarab Swarm. Mag now picks up the shards as her new passive, giving her a bonus to her armor by either a flat number or percentage. I would have it so that shards obtained from stripped shields count towards shields rather than armor. Note, this is normal shields, not overshields. These shards are stored on the Mag, and when she uses crush, those shards go towards increasing the damage on Crush against all enemies. This damage boost can be additive, or multiplicative. Every cast of Crush will remove 25% of Mag's shard pool, with a counter at the top of the screen like Chroma's, telling her how much bonus to shields and armor she has.

Passive: She absorbs shards now for that defensive boost. The 5 meter bullet jump suction is pathetic, and what is a Mag to use this for if she had either; Carrier, a popular sentinel, or Greedy Pull, an augment mod made just for her that does the exact same thing, but better.

Misc: Buff her max energy. As a caster frame she should not have such low energy reserves. I would put it to the same level as Saryn, though the other proposal is 500 energy with Max Flow. Not Primed Flow, normal Flow.

 

Now, this kind of rework is positive. Her passive is bad, so change it and give that tiny girl some protection and bonus damage against those who think it would be a good idea to hit on her. Her synergy is buffed, as now Pull massively aids Magnetize, and Polarize props up Crush. She is no longer "Press 2 to win" because while that would be effective, by pressing two and then one and then firing into the bubble, she can be even more effective. Crush is buffed so that it feels like an ultimate attack, capable of crushing squads in one fell swoop with the right support. Polarize is brought back from the dead to be useful again. Pull is given new life, and Magnetize... Works rather than being a buggy mess that I fire my Lanka in the general direction of.

 

The rework we have is an overall nerf, this proposed one is one that I fully support. She is back to her status as one of the Queens of CC, but now is not able to nuke the map in one go. A good Mag has to earn her daily serving of nukes.

 

Sorry this is so long, and thank you to anyone whom read this far, even if you completely disagree.

these changes I agree with completely. Thank you for refining it

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Ill give u that...her 2 should work exactly as it previously did. Just factor armor into the equation. Done, problem solved

[Cerebrum123]

I actually want MAG's passive put on all frames, and her given her own unique one. I love not having to take a Carrier or Greedy Pull with me into a mission to get stuff. It's not as efficient as either of those two, but gets the job done considering how much I use Bullet Jump. 

[Comradicus_Prime]

10 hours ago, Dracario said:

these changes I agree with completely. Thank you for refining it

You are welcome good sir. Took me an hour off and on to get it all down.

[Dracario]

Just now, ExteriorJungle4 said:

You are welcome good sir. Took me an hour off and on to get it all down.

took me a nights rest to make up the ideas for the reworked abilities

[malekas]

20 hours ago, ExteriorJungle4 said:

Pull: Kept the same, but now if aimed at Magnetize, enemies are sucked in. Extended with range.

Magnetize: The suction on it needs buffing to actually keep enemies from walking straight through like there is nothing there. Make it pull more with power strength and from farther away with Power range. Different weapon types have different effects. Hitscan = Direct Damage. Beam = Higher Damage over Time. Projectile = Innate Punch through. Make Magnetize castable on surfaces as well as on enemies, and fix the bug where if you cast on a target and the target dies prior to the animation ending, you spend energy for nothing.

Polarize: Put it back with scaling. (At the current cost, that's a no brainer. No need to double nerf by increasing cost and massively limiting effectiveness). Make it so power strength increases the percentage at a hard cap of 70% (This gives room to have an aura against armor/shields to perma-strip AND the amount of damage dealt by the now scaling blast has a good chance of finishing off fodder units). The amount of Power Strength needed should be about 150%, needing only a Transient Fortitude. Shards are dropped based upon every 5-10% of armor/shields stripped. Shards then interact with...

Crush: Now crush has a system like Inaros' Scarab Swarm. Mag now picks up the shards as her new passive, giving her a bonus to her armor by either a flat number or percentage. I would have it so that shards obtained from stripped shields count towards shields rather than armor. Note, this is normal shields, not overshields. These shards are stored on the Mag, and when she uses crush, those shards go towards increasing the damage on Crush against all enemies. This damage boost can be additive, or multiplicative. Every cast of Crush will remove 25% of Mag's shard pool, with a counter at the top of the screen like Chroma's, telling her how much bonus to shields and armor she has.

Passive: She absorbs shards now for that defensive boost. The 5 meter bullet jump suction is pathetic, and what is a Mag to use this for if she had either; Carrier, a popular sentinel, or Greedy Pull, an augment mod made just for her that does the exact same thing, but better.

Misc: Buff her max energy. As a caster frame she should not have such low energy reserves. I would put it to the same level as Saryn, though the other proposal is 500 energy with Max Flow. Not Primed Flow, normal Flow.

^^

This DE. Just do this. No need to think about it. Just do it.

 

You had the same idea I did for Polarize, percentage based with a hard cap. It's the perfect way to handle it.

 

I was a supporter of the Mag rework. But after SotR nerfed Magnetize, forget it. DE can call it a "fix" all they want, it was a flat out nerf. It should be pretty obvious that DE needs to rethink the rework when it takes end game mods just for Mag to be usuable at mid game. And it blows my mind that DE was so quick to acknowledge and fix/alter the Volt rework, but they have been completely silent on the Mag rework (except for nerfing Magnetize).

[Comradicus_Prime]

7 minutes ago, malekas said:

This DE. Just do this. No need to think about it. Just do it.

Now, the question becomes will they ever see the proposal in the first place?

[Hybridon]

Can anybody confirm that before Specters of the rail, the Magnetize bubble would pull in enemies that walked through it, making it great to use on choke points and as general CC, but after Specters of the rail it isn't working that way anymore? Was on Hieracon (Pluto) and Infested just swarmed through it. I really liked its uses as a defensive ability and this seems like a bug. Can anybody confirm if this is intended?

Also, what effect does Polarize even have on infested as they are mostly just health, no armor or shields to strip? Do they even drop shards to interact with Magnetize?

[Comradicus_Prime]

24 minutes ago, Hybridon said:

Can anybody confirm that before Specters of the rail, the Magnetize bubble would pull in enemies that walked through it, making it great to use on choke points and as general CC, but after Specters of the rail it isn't working that way anymore? Was on Hieracon (Pluto) and Infested just swarmed through it. I really liked its uses as a defensive ability and this seems like a bug. Can anybody confirm if this is intended?

Also, what effect does Polarize even have on infested as they are mostly just health, no armor or shields to strip? Do they even drop shards to interact with Magnetize?

If it worked like that before, I didn't see it. I was in the middle of a leveling binge, so I didn't touch my Mag much prior. However, I can confirm 100% that nowadays they do run right through, unless otherwise stunned in some way.

As for Polarize and infested... Well... Some have armor... Not many too terribly often though. Mag has traditionally not been too good against the Infested, and still isn't the best. Polarize is kinda just there for a shield regen if needed most of the time... So the same as with other factions at this point