Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[ElectronX_Core]

1 hour ago, Wolfnrun said:

Did anyone else notice the different behavior on todays prime time? Around the fanart?  We might have something ahead of us as soon as tomorrow...maybe 

Hehehe.. yes. Are they subliminally making us play more Volt?

Sidenote: [Volt Prime-Amp Skin-Arrester Helmet] Master Race

[Aquasurge]

8 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

Did anyone else notice the different behavior on todays prime time? Around the fanart?  We might have something ahead of us as soon as tomorrow...maybe 

yes. i can feel the power i've been waiting for all my life. if what you say is true, then tomorrow; there may be a third new master race.

[Czin]

Just posting here, Volt's Discharge seems to not always damage Corrupted Ancients, sometimes the ult ends with no damage dealt to them, just "0" in shields.

 

EDIT: It doesn't seem consistent though.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Czin

[Ikusias]

Apologies for the wall of text, but considering that Volt was my main for a long time and all the goodies put on the newst frame i'm seriously disappointed that it's rework is so lackluster: Volt changes are a mixed bag, we got Qol paired with "nerfs" or purely wisual upgrades...

- SHOCK + SHIELDS: Shocking the shields is a waste of energy, enemies walk even trough all 6 shields in a row without hassle, if we spend nearly the same energy as our ultimate to cast a shield and zap it there should be a more meaningful ffect that pretty graphics;

- SHOCK + SPEED: no interaction at all, would be nice instead if casting shock during speed gave us the effect of speed augment, removing the need for a band-aid mod

- SHOCK + DISCHARGE: again waste of energy, no apreciable effect at all, no increase in damage nothing...

- SPEED: i understand people wanting to mantain agency on when benefittng from an external buff or not, but opt in made Speed useless for groups, only advantage that i can see is that now Volt isn't the slower frame in the group even while buffed simply because now the rest of the grup usually doesn't get the buff, also there's an unjustified delay between power cast animation and actual effect that will get you killed if you try to buff yourself in order to excape. Speed bonus should start from fixed minimum and be increased based on power strenght otherwise the power behaves as a debuff if modding for less than 100% power strenght. Weapon reload or switching dosen't receive an apreciable enough buff.

- SHIELD: still dont understand the limit to 6 shields nor why power reach or intensity don't influence their size and shape, critical chance isn't cumulative trough multiple shields but enemy powers like eximi or ancients aura's are to a devastating effect, weapon range interaction for weapons like the amprex, or other limited range weapons was removed

- RIOT SHIELD: too many downsides considering that:

§ picking it up or dropping it interferes with contextual actions, and is slower than casting a new shield at the desired location,

§ protection is also disputable as the riot shield itself is quite narrow, leaving the frame fully exposend to enemies even a bit to the sides (hitbox problems?), in comparison excalibur's exalted blade autoparry covers a full 180° frontal arc at no extra cost, this shield is more about 60-90° of coverage, worsened by the reduction in movement speed, and the following:

§ it has timed duration and is non refreshable during use, you have to recast and pick it up again, again easier and faster to simply recast at the desired location,

§ it's an ability that can't be sustained indefinitely depending on energy pool because has fixed duration, drains energy while in use on top of initial casting cost and drains more energy while moving at reduced speed and while limited to secondary weapons - Ivara's prowl for instance offers a much better performance envelope having no time limit and only consuming energy while moving besides full invisibility (that incidentally offers a better damage protection!) and chance of pickpoketing more energy to sustain it's duration, speed reduction could be addressed by laying a zipline and moving on it at full running speed, just got an ulterior boost thanks to the new augment. 

§ forces the switch to the equipped secondary weapon but "forgets" to switch back to your originally equipped weapon when dropping the shield or when the power times out, the switch is also too slow considering that is part of the power

DE devlopers have stacked too many disadvantages on an ability that's got similar utility and constraints than Ivara's prowl but gets worse performance overall - ok we are speaking of a secondary effect of volt's Shield, but considering that currently we have at least 3 frames with more than the standard 4 abilities, Ivara, Equinox and reworked Vauban, this seems way excessive.

- RIOT SHIELD + SHOCK: no noticeable effect in picking up an electrified shield, shouldn't do something like bumping back enemies due to folgoration, stunning them on contact or something considering all the extra energy consumption that was tacked on?!

- RIOT SHIELD + SPEED: no interaction, would have been interesting to see something here.

- DISHCARGE: hard cap to damage and stun duration why? range if not modded is horrid, it's a ground only cast with a long animation (ideal for getting hosed in bullets etc.) ground detection is wonky, preempting from casting with no reason;

As others have mentioned: why damage isn't % based so to have scalability? Damage is mediocre and frees the enemies from the crowd control effect, particularly bad with corpus infantry, before the full duration

Crowd control is unreliable as some units keep attacking even when they should be locked down, ancients in particular can and will harpoon you even when tesla coiled,

The wave regularly missess some of the enemies it crossess,

Very noticeable delay between casts resulting in the obnoxious "power in use" popup WTF?! so you can't even compensate for missed enemies by recasting

-

(I'm currently using max range, extra duration with primed continuity and efficency on my builds because power strenght doesn't feel it gives any concrete advantage while suffering from a mediocre range) -

Also i really miss the graphic effects of Overload especially if casted mid-air.

So far Volt rework isn't enough considering its fluff and player requests, also being a light frame it should have an higher base speed.

 

Edited June 17, 2016 by Ikusias
split paragraphs for clarity, some corrections, added more critics

[Aquasurge]

8 minutes ago, Ikusias said:

 

- DISHCARGE: hard cap to damage and stun duration why? range if not modded is horrid, it's a ground only cast whith a long animation ideal for getting hosed in bullets etc. as others have mentioned: why damage isn't % based so to have scalability? crowd control is unreliable as some units keep attacking even when they should be locked down, ancients in particular can and will harpoon you even when tesla coiled, the wave regularly missess some of the enemies it crossess, damage is mediocre and frees the enemies from the crowd control effect, particularly bad with corpus infantry - currently using max range, extra duration with primed continuity and efficency on my builds because power strenght doesn't feel it gives any concrete advantage while suffering from a mediocre range - delay between casts WTF? resulting in the obnoxious power in use popup again WTF?!

Also i really miss the graphic effects of Overload especially if casted mid-air.

So far Volt rework isn't enough considering its fluff and player requests, also being a light frame it should have an higher base speed.

 

because that would be abused if discharge were if it was percentage based. and yes, volt needs a way of dealing with his energy consumption but having too much synergy on one frame can be very confusing for newer players. trust me bro, trust me.

[FitzSimmons]

7 hours ago, Czin said:

Just posting here, Volt's Discharge seems to not always damage Corrupted Ancients, sometimes the ult ends with no damage dealt to them, just "0" in shields.

 

EDIT: It doesn't seem consistent though.

because electric eximus is around when that happened. i also confuse at first but then that eximus is the problem

[FitzSimmons]

Suggestion:

reload bonus on speed. buff it, at least make the bonus equal to running speed and melee speed bonus. 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Sorry I'm late for the party, but I'm a console scrub. I played volt....and I did not change my build, for comparisons sake.

I can live with speed. It actually took me several uses, waiting for speed to end and then recasting before I noticed the delay. Speed is my favorite ability, so I mentioned it first, but it feels off...

Electric shock feels like it chains to enemies easier. I know with the old shock it seemed there would be enemies seemingly in range that would not get stunned, but I might just be making that part up. I took a hiatus from Warframe just a bit ago.

I didn't use the pick up sheild. Wasn't worth it, I never built my volt for efficiency, and my duration is mediocre (38 second sheild) so I didn't even bother. Sheild visuals are cool.

Overload is the exact same animation, and the exact same cast time, without doing damage to lights. But I can't jump. If I wanted to use it on a group of enemies, I had to waltz right into the middle of a bunch of enemies and do the T pose, although I don't have to worry about exploding too many lights and being stuck that way. I guess I could time it right, jump into them, and then do it...it works for level 20 enemies, but I won't be using his ult in any high levels without his now most important ability, the sheild.

I guess you were never supposed to be mobile with volts ult?

One thing that really bugs me is that overload does not affect cameras and sentry guns (corpus missions).

I knew the pc guys were saying it didn't effect electronics in the environment, but I kind of just assumed that only meant the lights. Cameras and sentry guns are still enemies. I find it weird and kind of useless that containers can be charged. I would switch them for the cameras any day...and if you want to be all technical about what electricity will do, it doesn't make sense that Discharge would not travel along a metal surface (from the floor, up a wall, to a ceiling to destroy the camera).

His passive is just something to be ignored and taken for granted. At least it doesn't reset every time you jump off the floor, I was fearing the worst.

I would settle for 

·Volts ulti to make more sense and be better.

I would dream for

·Base duration being up a little...

·Base speed increase

·An electric damage rework

·Volts ulti to make much more sense. Logicalness.

 

The sheild as I have heard it from others ·We want you to either make a practical version of the sheild, or take it away, but don't just add something because it was demanded by players, and then be really stingy about it, as if you didn't want to. That's how I have felt about it any ways, but I didn't use it, didn't seem it worth my time yesterday, I will have to build my volt specifically so I can use it. Maybe even unlock zenurik.

This is just my first impression...I hate being all super late. 30 something pages in and I'm just now able to give first hand experienced feedback....

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Volts ulti doesnt make sense, because you are supposed to be in contact with the ground in order to use discharge, and cannot aircast, but then in the animation, volt jumps off the ground. For what reason? He jumps off the ground....let that sink in

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

6 hours ago, Ikusias said:

Apologies for the wall of text, but considering that Volt was my main for a long time and all the goodies put on the newst frame i'm seriously disappointed that it's rework is so lackluster: Volt changes are a mixed bag, we got Qol paired with "nerfs" or purely wisual upgrades...

- SHOCK + SHIELDS: Shocking the shields is a waste of energy, enemies walk even trough all 6 shields in a row without hassle, if we spend nearly the same energy as our ultimate to cast a shield and zap it there should be a more meaningful ffect that pretty graphics;

- SHOCK + SPEED: no interaction at all, would be nice instead if casting shock during speed gave us the effect of speed augment, removing the need for a band-aid mod

- SHOCK + DISCHARGE: again waste of energy, no apreciable effect at all, no increase in damage nothing...

- SPEED: i understand people wanting to mantain agency on when benefittng from an external buff or not, but opt in made Speed useless for groups, only advantage that i can see is that now Volt isn't the slower frame in the group even while buffed simply because now the rest of the grup usually doesn't get the buff, also there's an unjustified delay between power cast animation and actual effect that will get you killed if you try to buff yourself in order to excape. Speed bonus should start from fixed minimum and be increased based on power strenght otherwise the power behaves as a debuff if modding for less than 100% power strenght. Weapon reload or switching dosen't receive an apreciable enough buff.

- SHIELD: still dont understand the limit to 6 shields nor why power reach or intensity don't influence their size and shape, critical chance isn't cumulative trough multiple shields but enemy powers like eximi or ancients aura's are to a devastating effect, weapon range interaction for weapons like the amprex, or other limited range weapons was removed

- RIOT SHIELD: too many downsides considering that:

§ picking it up or dropping it interferes with contextual actions, and is slower than casting a new shield at the desired location,

§ protection is also disputable as the riot shield itself is quite narrow, leaving the frame fully exposend to enemies even a bit to the sides (hitbox problems?), in comparison excalibur's exalted blade autoparry covers a full 180° frontal arc at no extra cost, this shield is more about 60-90° of coverage, worsened by the reduction in movement speed, and the following:

§ it has timed duration and is non refreshable during use, you have to recast and pick it up again, again easier and faster to simply recast at the desired location,

§ it's an ability that can't be sustained indefinitely depending on energy pool because has fixed duration, drains energy while in use on top of initial casting cost and drains more energy while moving at reduced speed and while limited to secondary weapons - Ivara's prowl for instance offers a much better performance envelope having no time limit and only consuming energy while moving besides full invisibility (that incidentally offers a better damage protection!) and chance of pickpoketing more energy to sustain it's duration, speed reduction could be addressed by laying a zipline and moving on it at full running speed, just got an ulterior boost thanks to the new augment. 

§ forces the switch to the equipped secondary weapon but "forgets" to switch back to your originally equipped weapon when dropping the shield or when the power times out, the switch is also too slow considering that is part of the power

DE devlopers have stacked too many disadvantages on an ability that's got similar utility and constraints than Ivara's prowl but gets worse performance overall - ok we are speaking of a secondary effect of volt's Shield, but considering that currently we have at least 3 frames with more than the standard 4 abilities, Ivara, Equinox and reworked Vauban, this seems way excessive.

- RIOT SHIELD + SHOCK: no noticeable effect in picking up an electrified shield, shouldn't do something like bumping back enemies due to folgoration, stunning them on contact or something considering all the extra energy consumption that was tacked on?!

- RIOT SHIELD + SPEED: no interaction, would have been interesting to see something here.

- DISHCARGE: hard cap to damage and stun duration why? range if not modded is horrid, it's a ground only cast with a long animation (ideal for getting hosed in bullets etc.) ground detection is wonky, preempting from casting with no reason;

As others have mentioned: why damage isn't % based so to have scalability? Damage is mediocre and frees the enemies from the crowd control effect, particularly bad with corpus infantry, before the full duration

Crowd control is unreliable as some units keep attacking even when they should be locked down, ancients in particular can and will harpoon you even when tesla coiled,

The wave regularly missess some of the enemies it crossess,

Very noticeable delay between casts resulting in the obnoxious "power in use" popup WTF?! so you can't even compensate for missed enemies by recasting

-

(I'm currently using max range, extra duration with primed continuity and efficency on my builds because power strenght doesn't feel it gives any concrete advantage while suffering from a mediocre range) -

Also i really miss the graphic effects of Overload especially if casted mid-air.

So far Volt rework isn't enough considering its fluff and player requests, also being a light frame it should have an higher base speed.

 

Also, I like this very much

[Wolfnrun]

UGH! there was nothing! ... Just expressing my dissatisfaction... move along 

[Aquasurge]

2 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

UGH! there was nothing! ... Just expressing my dissatisfaction... move along 

i know - but i was sort of right - volt parkour master race?!!

[(PSN)Silverback73]

5 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Sorry I'm late for the party, but I'm a console scrub. I played volt....and I did not change my build, for comparisons sake.

I can live with speed. It actually took me several uses, waiting for speed to end and then recasting before I noticed the delay. Speed is my favorite ability, so I mentioned it first, but it feels off...

Electric shock feels like it chains to enemies easier. I know with the old shock it seemed there would be enemies seemingly in range that would not get stunned, but I might just be making that part up. I took a hiatus from Warframe just a bit ago.

I didn't use the pick up sheild. Wasn't worth it, I never built my volt for efficiency, and my duration is mediocre (38 second sheild) so I didn't even bother. Sheild visuals are cool.

Overload is the exact same animation, and the exact same cast time, without doing damage to lights. But I can't jump. If I wanted to use it on a group of enemies, I had to waltz right into the middle of a bunch of enemies and do the T pose, although I don't have to worry about exploding too many lights and being stuck that way. I guess I could time it right, jump into them, and then do it...it works for level 20 enemies, but I won't be using his ult in any high levels without his now most important ability, the sheild.

I guess you were never supposed to be mobile with volts ult?

One thing that really bugs me is that overload does not affect cameras and sentry guns (corpus missions).

I knew the pc guys were saying it didn't effect electronics in the environment, but I kind of just assumed that only meant the lights. Cameras and sentry guns are still enemies. I find it weird and kind of useless that containers can be charged. I would switch them for the cameras any day...and if you want to be all technical about what electricity will do, it doesn't make sense that Discharge would not travel along a metal surface (from the floor, up a wall, to a ceiling to destroy the camera).

His passive is just something to be ignored and taken for granted. At least it doesn't reset every time you jump off the floor, I was fearing the worst.

I would settle for 

·Volts ulti to make more sense and be better.

I would dream for

·Base duration being up a little...

·Base speed increase

·An electric damage rework

·Volts ulti to make much more sense. Logicalness.

 

The sheild as I have heard it from others ·We want you to either make a practical version of the sheild, or take it away, but don't just add something because it was demanded by players, and then be really stingy about it, as if you didn't want to. That's how I have felt about it any ways, but I didn't use it, didn't seem it worth my time yesterday, I will have to build my volt specifically so I can use it. Maybe even unlock zenurik.

This is just my first impression...I hate being all super late. 30 something pages in and I'm just now able to give first hand experienced feedback....

 

 

 

 

Yep, been saying it for a while:

Synergize his powers by making his passive the ability to cast while running when Speed is active.

Imagine being able to drop his Shield or Discharge "on the move" and then KEEP MOVING.

Current Volt:

"STOP! *cast* now go...rub your socks on the carpet to build up a cute static charge...no, STOP! *cast*..."

Vs

"Supercharger" Volt

A strafing lightning maelstrom of death...

Edited June 18, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Aquasurge]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Yep, been saying it for a while:

Synergize his powers by making his passive the ability to cast while running when Speed is active.

Imagine being able to drop his Shield or Discharge "on the move" and then KEEP MOVING.

Current Volt:

"STOP! *cast* now go...rub your socks on the carpet to build up a cute static charge...no, STOP! *cast*..."

Vs

"Supercharger" Volt

A strafing lightning maelstrom of death...

huh nice idea - i agree - volt's survivability depends on his continuous momentum.

though i have come up with something  for his passive that may solve this. " volt now has an increased chance for enemies to drop energy orbs with now add +750 electric damage per orb to his next attack. if volt's energy pool is full - the electric dmg bonus will double".

if this was implemented, (ironically) there would be no need to change the riot shield at all and his passive would be relevant to the playerbase.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Aquasurge

[-CM-Emptiness]

On 17/06/2016 at 10:23 PM, Ikusias said:

- SPEED: i understand people wanting to mantain agency on when benefittng from an external buff or not, but opt in made Speed useless for groups, only advantage that i can see is that now Volt isn't the slower frame in the group even while buffed simply because now the rest of the grup usually doesn't get the buff, also there's an unjustified delay between power cast animation and actual effect that will get you killed if you try to buff yourself in order to excape. Speed bonus should start from fixed minimum and be increased based on power strenght otherwise the power behaves as a debuff if modding for less than 100% power strenght. Weapon reload or switching dosen't receive an apreciable enough buff.

Completely agree. Though I prefer the on/off solution + radial buff over yours. Also, I wouldn't mind removing the reload speed, since that's just an excuse to label Volt OP when it should be limited to melee. It's a more solo-oriented frame right now. Ironic that it has reduced any team-synergy against increased ability-synergy. So far, this is the only rework for which I desire a complete revert and implementation of the on/off hotkey system. I honestly don't see how this isn't the flawless alternative.

On 17/06/2016 at 10:23 PM, Ikusias said:

- SHIELD: still dont understand the limit to 6 shields nor why power reach or intensity don't influence their size and shape, critical chance isn't cumulative trough multiple shields but enemy powers like eximi or ancients aura's are to a devastating effect, weapon range interaction for weapons like the amprex, or other limited range weapons was removed

 

- RIOT SHIELD: too many downsides considering that:

§ picking it up or dropping it interferes with contextual actions, and is slower than casting a new shield at the desired location,

§ protection is also disputable as the riot shield itself is quite narrow, leaving the frame fully exposend to enemies even a bit to the sides (hitbox problems?), in comparison excalibur's exalted blade autoparry covers a full 180° frontal arc at no extra cost, this shield is more about 60-90° of coverage, worsened by the reduction in movement speed, and the following:

§ it has timed duration and is non refreshable during use, you have to recast and pick it up again, again easier and faster to simply recast at the desired location,

§ it's an ability that can't be sustained indefinitely depending on energy pool because has fixed duration, drains energy while in use on top of initial casting cost and drains more energy while moving at reduced speed and while limited to secondary weapons - Ivara's prowl for instance offers a much better performance envelope having no time limit and only consuming energy while moving besides full invisibility (that incidentally offers a better damage protection!) and chance of pickpoketing more energy to sustain it's duration, speed reduction could be addressed by laying a zipline and moving on it at full running speed, just got an ulterior boost thanks to the new augment. 

§ forces the switch to the equipped secondary weapon but "forgets" to switch back to your originally equipped weapon when dropping the shield or when the power times out, the switch is also too slow considering that is part of the power

DE devlopers have stacked too many disadvantages on an ability that's got similar utility and constraints than Ivara's prowl but gets worse performance overall - ok we are speaking of a secondary effect of volt's Shield, but considering that currently we have at least 3 frames with more than the standard 4 abilities, Ivara, Equinox and reworked Vauban, this seems way excessive.

Don't understand the limit either. It is based off Duration and only covers around 120 degrees. That already gives it a limit alongside energy cost as to how many you can have out at the same time. I get that Frost's Globe has HP, but it doesn't have a Duration cap, hence the limit. Globe HP isn't of concern given the invulnerability period. Don't like the AOE advantage either, it seems like another excuse to call out OP. I would suggest reducing the Duration to more heavily reinforce the cap instead of the hard cap we have at the moment.

Completely agree with Riot Shield as well. Interferes with team-mate revives. Only frontal protection. Weapon limits. Movement Speed. Energy costs. If they could keep the size the same as standing shield, or 360 degree protection, I wouldn't mind the other limits. Same with reducing / removing the energy cost. Like you said, it's much easier and energy-efficient to just drop another shield down after relocating.

On 17/06/2016 at 10:23 PM, Ikusias said:

- DISHCARGE: hard cap to damage and stun duration why? range if not modded is horrid, it's a ground only cast with a long animation (ideal for getting hosed in bullets etc.) ground detection is wonky, preempting from casting with no reason;

 

As others have mentioned: why damage isn't % based so to have scalability? Damage is mediocre and frees the enemies from the crowd control effect, particularly bad with corpus infantry, before the full duration

Crowd control is unreliable as some units keep attacking even when they should be locked down, ancients in particular can and will harpoon you even when tesla coiled,

The wave regularly missess some of the enemies it crossess,

Very noticeable delay between casts resulting in the obnoxious "power in use" popup WTF?! so you can't even compensate for missed enemies by recasting

-

(I'm currently using max range, extra duration with primed continuity and efficency on my builds because power strenght doesn't feel it gives any concrete advantage while suffering from a mediocre range) -

Also i really miss the graphic effects of Overload especially if casted mid-air.

So far Volt rework isn't enough considering its fluff and player requests, also being a light frame it should have an higher base speed.

Only agree with removing the damage cap, and enabling mid-air casting.

% Damage won't be implemented for the same reasons Mag's Polarize was reworked. That's just how it is. Don't fret, the enemy-rework will be coming soon.

Volt having a lower base-speed encourages use of Speed all the time to compensate. His association with being fast stems from his abilities, not the physical capabilities of Volt himself. I actually find it perfectly justified :P

12 hours ago, Aquasurge said:

" volt now has an increased chance for enemies to drop energy orbs with now add +750 electric damage per orb to his next attack. if volt's energy pool is full - the electric dmg bonus will double".

if this was implemented, (ironically) there would be no need to change the riot shield at all and his passive would be relevant to the playerbase.

Interesting concept. Don't see how it affects Riot Shield though. I mean, we want players to use portable shields instead of dropping another standing shield, right? Chance won't be 100%, and since the shield itself is tiny, enemies will most likely be quite far off in one direction. Which means you will most likely lose much more energy from traversing the distance to collect the orbs given the current rate. Honestly, this portability issue is a huge mess -.-

Edited June 18, 2016 by -CM-Emptiness

[(XBOX)Beck117]

One way to counteract the ridiculous drain on the riot shield is using the Zenurik passive which makes it drain like Ivara's Prowl.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

50 minutes ago, (XB1)Beck117 said:

One way to counteract the ridiculous drain on the riot shield is using the Zenurik passive which makes it drain like Ivara's Prowl.

The counterpoint:

A mid-to-end-game buff granted post-Second-Dream and needing additional time to properly build should not be required for a warframe ability to be viable.

Name me another frame with a "3" that would require that much work to be viable.  Make riot shield easier to use or lose it.  Right now it just annoys me when I accidentally grab it and watch it suck my energy dry.

And I love the concept.

[(XBOX)Beck117]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

The counterpoint:

A mid-to-end-game buff granted post-Second-Dream and needing additional time to properly build should not be required for a warframe ability to be viable.

Name me another frame with a "3" that would require that much work to be viable.  Make riot shield easier to use or lose it.  Right now it just annoys me when I accidentally grab it and watch it suck my energy dry.

And I love the concept.

? I want them to change riot shield as much as anyone else, I was only giving out a way I found to counteract the ridiculous drain it had. Riot shield is a great idea sone terribly. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Beck117 said:

? I want them to change riot shield as much as anyone else, I was only giving out a way I found to counteract the ridiculous drain it had. Riot shield is a great idea sone terribly. 

It wasn't personal :).  We veterans lose sight of the time, money, and energy we've invested in the game was my point.

Trying to convince someone with 50-100 hours playtime that they need to complete the Second Dream and fully rank Zenurik to find a way to make Riot Shield work is a very hard "sell", ya know?

[Aquasurge]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

It wasn't personal :).  We veterans lose sight of the time, money, and energy we've invested in the game was my point.

Trying to convince someone with 50-100 hours playtime that they need to complete the Second Dream and fully rank Zenurik to find a way to make Riot Shield work is a very hard "sell", ya know?

exactly - newer volt players may either quit volt or don't even bother using him if the riot sheild drain isn't fixed ASAP

[Aquasurge]

12 hours ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

Interesting concept. Don't see how it affects Riot Shield though. I mean, we want players to use portable shields instead of dropping another standing shield, right? Chance won't be 100%, and since the shield itself is tiny, enemies will most likely be quite far off in one direction. Which means you will most likely lose much more energy from traversing the distance to collect the orbs given the current rate. Honestly, this portability issue is a huge mess -.-

it fits because the riot shield/current shield in its own right, CES is an exalted defense barrier. with the concept i put forward, it literally makes current ES synergise more with the increased energy drop to restore energy and since ES interacts with guns....... you get the idea. That being said i totally agree with removing the energy based on distance thing (maybe pause the duration on it as well) and doubling the normal energy drain itself to compensate. although it would be nice if you could cast a stationary shield while volt holding one though

[Wolfnrun]

Can't we just melt ember and zephyr together in the form of electricity and out comes volt 3.0??? 

(Jokes aside, I would like an ability that buffs the other abilities...I propose speed although it would result in a 50 energy cost) 

[Armageddonfolfy]

Ok my only problem with the rework thus far has been the stupid descision to make me or anyone else have to pick up an item to be affected by his VERY TEAM focused ability, it would be like if I had to opt into rhinos roar for more damage or valkyr buff ability. DE please just make it affect you if your near a Volt in use of this ability again and better yet make it so you can go away from them and still have it affect you for the duration

[EnderDDT]

On 6/18/2016 at 8:56 PM, Aquasurge said:

That being said i totally agree with removing the energy based on distance thing (maybe pause the duration on it as well) and doubling the normal energy drain itself to compensate.

No offense intended, but I really REALLY hate this type of suggestion:

"Lets take out the restriction (that was ridiculous in the first place and was unduly stifling for no good reason) and COMPENSATE for that by adding in some other or some increased restriction elsewhere."

If the original thing is not balanced than "compensation" to shift that imbalance does not fix things, but rather just conserves the unbalanced state. Compensation should only be used to preserve balance in the event of a change that might unbalance a previously well-balanced system. If we want to talk about "balance" than we need a comparison to get an idea about what is standard. The main comparisons for Volt's Riot Shield use of his Electric Shield are to Zephyr's Turbulence and Mesa's Shatter Shield, with the assumption that both worked as intended (both abilities are still a bit buggy). If we want to look at the damage buff than Mesa's Shooting Galery or Mirage's Hall of Mirrors are good places to start.  We also need to recognize that a "broken" aspect is either so weak as to cause problems with the overall viability of the thing it is attached to, so strong as to trivialize content or crowd out other opposing options, or so focused as to make balancing that aspect of the game impossible without making the aspect either too strong or too weak dependent on the circumstances. Balanced aspects fit in with the other similar aspects in a way that is generally similar for their own roles and allows for both diversity and fun.

According to those definitions if Volt was able to pick up his shield and had no extra drains or ill effects it would be unbalanced but not so much to be "broken". Allowing primary weapon use would not create damage numbers that would crowd out pretty much any other damage increase or create any type of broken interaction; mainly because the numbers don't scale with power strength, start for most weapons with a 50% bonus off of base damage vs increasing total damage, most crit based weapons with good attack speed are actually secondaries, and the Riot Shield can basically only affect Volt himself. There is nothing that would make that use "broken" or even "unbalanced", especially if you were to compare to the other damage buffs in the game. The lack of a speed debuff would not hurt any aspect of the game and all it does currently is hurt mele players, but being in mele range pretty much guarantees that some enemy will be able to shoot around the thing and the enemy Volt is fighting will usually be counted as "behind" the shield too (the projectile's path starts at the tip of the gun). Again, not broken and not even unbalanced. The cost is the one area where Volt's Riot Shield addition would become unbalanced, but even that isn't brokenly so. The other two abilities theoretically and realistically give better protection and better secondary effects but cost 75 energy to volt's 50 (Honestly, both Zephyr's and Mesa's abilities are bugged and that needs fixed, but it doesn't change the comparison of how they should work or a recognition of the power that they do currently have).  Even though the numbers are unbalanced in this area, they don't crowd any content out or "break the game" in any other way, so it shouldn't be considered "broken".

So we can see that removing all restrictions would not be broken, and only unbalanced in one area. Out of his current restrictions, two out of the four are already broken and the others are unbalanced. The weapon restriction is imbalanced due to the inherent restrictions already part of how the damage increase works. The damage buff with the Riot Shield is essentially a single frame buff that cannot be increased via power strength and only is effective with a subcategory of weapons (ranged weapons with high crit chances); therefore whatever power the ability might have is ALREADY balanced (maybe overly so), and the restriction is what is unbalancing. Ironically it is secondary weapons that can take most advantage of the mobile nature of the Riot Shield, most primary crit based weapons are either snipers or bows which are usually used immobile anyway. The speed restriction is similarly unbalanced, though not as extreme as the weapon restriction. Simply put, the 20% speed reduction is a loss of power where balance would have been achieved without it. The unidirectional nature of the ability already makes it dangerous (but not negative) to move overly quickly with the ability active, so no correction is necessary; furthermore no other defensive ability has built in negatives to "make up for" the bonuses received with the possible exception of Inaros's #4 (which also serves as an AoE nuke with healing properties).

Where the abilities actually become broken is when we look at the cost. A new player with a LV30 Volt will have 150 energy, while just holding the shield for the entire duration will cost 175 energy if he doesn't move.  Or to put it another way, the only way anyone has found to make the base cost acceptable is with specific end-game content, namely Zenerik, by cannibalizing the end-game content's normal benefits in order to make up for the broken cost of the thing (and even that requires more late game content in the form of mods). This is almost the definition of what happens when people are dealing with a broken system, they end up having to break something else to compensate. In terms of the cost per movement on Volt's Riot Shield, this breaks the core mechanics of the game in terms of power growth. Even if the gains are not equal, doing something to make your Warframe more powerful should not result in a negative return, but the more you use and increase your speed the worse off you are for using your Riot Shield. In a mobility focused game this cost per movement would be broken for nearly anything (possible exception of Nezha's Fire Walker), but even in those edge cases it would be problematic. There is no way to balance a cost per movement on Volt, considering his "Speed" ability, without creating a broken anti-synergy between the two abilities. Anything that is done to make speed more powerful only adds to the losses Volt takes from the Riot Shield, and the very use of one prevents the effective use of the other. A number of people have pointed out that, no matter how nice the Riot Shield is, it isn't worth accidentally picking it up and having to pay the cost. That alone should be telling.

So then what we need to ask now is "what would be balanced". I'll give you a hint: it isn't 5 energy per second over the 25 second duration, and anyone who wants to increase that number is starting the balance discussion at the wrong place. Considering that the other comparison abilities tend to give superior secondary benefits including protection and cost 75 energy or less total, a more sane cost per second would be 2 energy drain per second. On the outside it can be argued for 3 energy drain per second, but anything higher simply ignores balance. At 2 drain the total cost over the duration is 100, with the caryable portion costing 50 over the base cost; at 3 drain the total cost is 125 with the carry time costing a full 75 energy. Considering that the other abilities cost 75 energy, a total cost of 100 is balanced if we remember that the other abilities are more powerful and count the extra cost of Volt's ability as a "premium" for the option of placing the ability (but then loosing the carry functionality while it is placed). Even balancing the carry portion to cost the full price of the other frame's abilities (again, ignoring that the other abilities are more powerful) would only require a 3 energy per second drain, but would result in a total cost of 125 energy.  All of this assumes the complete cutting of the cost per movement, the movement speed reduction, and the weapon restriction.

TL/DR: To make Volt's Riot Shield balanced cut all restrictions on speed and weapon, remove the cost per distance, and reduce the carry cost to 2 or at most 3 energy per second.  THIS IS BALANCED!!!!!  See above for the explanation of why. It very much annoys me to see people talking about "compensation" without thinking about balance first.

[RealPandemonium]

The idea with riot shield having downsides is to prevent Volt players from "turning on the idiot shield" and running around with frontal immunity and an always-on damage benefit.  I advocate for removing the energy/distance and instead lowering movement speed while holding the shield.  

Edited June 20, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[(XBOX)Beck117]

12 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

The idea with riot shield having downsides is to prevent Volt players from "turning on the idiot shield" and running around with frontal immunity and an always-on damage benefit.  I advocate for removing the energy/distance and instead lowering movement speed while holding the shield.  

It has more downsides than good and making Volt even slower would make the riot shield worse, what it needs right now is either reducng the energy with no duration in riot shield or removing the energy drain like you suggested.