Saryn feels weak - Thoughts?

[V31L]

So i have been playing warframe for quite some time now and i play frames with high DPS mostly. While saryn is supposed to be one she really feels too weak when put against high level enemies.

Saryn performs decent against level 80 enemies but beyond that the damage falls off really hard and she becomes practically useless.

For her miasma build(the one i tested), you need to use all of your abilites to get the highest potential damage out of it and in the end the damage is pretty low when pur against high level enemies. Miasma is so reliant on her other abilites that it kinda feel useless when used alone.

If we compare her with other DPS frames like excalibur, mesa or valkyr she feels top weak. For example excalibur has his exalted blade which is a great ability on its own but the can be enhanced by excalibur's other abilities like the blind and the dash. So excaliburs abilities blend together to make him one of the best DPS frames. Another example is mesa with the new changes . Mesa actually deals damage now and peacemaker is a great ability on its own where the other abilities help boost the damage and survivability. Same thing can be said about valkyr and other frames. Their abilities work well together and compliment each other not like saryn where her other abilities are necessary to to use everytime in order to pull out the combo u want which deals no damage in the end. 

I really think saryn needs better scaling on the damage and better survivability.

I have not done any tests other than the miasma combo. The viral proc is good but their is really not much to follow up with.

I hope i get some good discussion out of this and please if you think im not doing it right let me know so i can test again.

Edited June 7, 2016 by [DE]Danielle
Edited title for clarity

[Roachester]

Who the heck told you Saryn was a DPS frame?

It's all about the DoT. Spread those Spores like the freaking plague. When you're under heavy fire, throw out a Molt to get a brief moment of relief. Whip out Toxic Lash for a little extra insult to injury. You shouldn't be using Miasma as anything more than a finishing touch of sorts. Trying to build specifically for her 4th ability is a huge waste of both time and energy.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Roachester

[YasaiTsume]

Saryn is a DoT frame.

Her strengths are Debuffs and sustained damage.

Saryn's Spores also scale to Weapon Damage (Toxic Procs) making her outdps almost any frame with the right weapon. 

Do yu have Naramon? Go melee with her with a Crit weapon and Toxic Lash's 100% Proc chance will stack enough Toxins to eat an enemy alive. 

 

Edited June 5, 2016 by YasaiTsume

[marshmellory]

focus on spores and use a gas ignis. miasma is much less effective.

also, barely any frames scale past 80 (not including valkyr for obvious reasons) except equinox and maybe ash. no surprise there.

[NekroArts]

Before Saryn rework, most players used only Miasma and neglected the other abilities. DE rework her by making all of her abilities work together to maximize the damage output to Miasma; this removed her from being a "press 4 to win" frame and turned her into an interactive one. You can't rely on Miasma by itself anymore, your only option is to either play her with all of her abilities or find a another "press 4 to win" frame to play.

[Magneu]

I've seen a Saryn top damage charts in hour long missions, shred crowds of level 100 enemies, and halve the health of enemies two rooms over.

She doesn't do burst damage (although Viral procs could be counted as such), but her sustained damage/team utility is off the charts. Personally, I would give Miasma a couple more meters of range/seconds of stun, but that's just me; not really my playstyle anyway.

[PikeOrShield]

No one builds for Miasma.  The combo is not something you should be trying to pull off every minute since it is too expensive.  However, if you still want to use Miasma a bunch, just know that spores carry toxin procs, so you can spore a target -> shot it with a toxin procing weapon (kill them or shoot the spores to get them to spread) -> cast Miasma, for a cheaper combo.

 

Build for Spores if your serious.  Spores gain burst and DoT damage when they are popped off a target infected with a toxin proc.  Get creative with how you proc toxin on targets; gas procs inflict toxin procs and auto pop spores in an AOE, so many Saryn users mod for gas damage.  Any weapon with a decent status chance can ramp up the damage quite fast.  Saryn's 2nd and 3rd abilities deal toxin procs as well.

 

You only need to cast Spores once since it spreads (essentially a free recast) easily.  Mod for power strength, range, and moderate duration (90% or more).  You don't actually need efficiency.  Most of the people  who know what they're doing run around with 45% efficiency.

 

Here's the build I use for high level runs:

Spoiler

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Saryn_Prime/t_30_3022400230_2-4-10-4-0-5-12-2-10-34-8-5-46-5-5-59-1-3-411-7-10-471-6-3-479-3-10-615-9-5_4-5-59-9-12-8-479-7-2-6-46-11-471-9-411-8-34-14-615-9_0/en/1-0-44/0

Here's the most useful forum post about it:

 

[V31L]

The way i thought about us that her forth ability is basically an ultimate( like league of legend champs). So for me the ulti should be the most powerful. On the spores build ive tried it(while trying to pull of miasma combo) and for me it didnt feel like it can do much damage. Well thats my opinion. Thanks for the feedback guys :) 

[PikeOrShield]

6 minutes ago, V31L said:

The way i thought about us that her forth ability is basically an ultimate( like league of legend champs). So for me the ulti should be the most powerful. On the spores build ive tried it(while trying to pull of miasma combo) and for me it didnt feel like it can do much damage. Well thats my opinion. Thanks for the feedback guys :) 

Miasma is really deceiving  in how it's damage is really done.  It can do an incredible amount of damage, just not in a direct way.  Miasma pops all the spores in it's cast range, so if all the targets have high toxin procs on them, popping all the spores at once will follow up the corrosive damage from Miasma with dozens of spore nukes and then huge toxin DOTs for good measure.

The key is the high toxin procs; without them, spores do very poor damage, however, toxin procs allow spores to scale infinitely.  Good luck finding a build they works well for you.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Me personally, I would just like to get a little of her health back, like 50 health back would be ok, and maybe not have to sweat bullets over all the numbers on my screen, trying to make sure spores are spreading while keeping my toxic lash up, spreading spores with melee weapons, making sure my molt stays up with spores on it, checking to see how long molt will last before I throw more spores on it, making sure I don't run out of energy or let my health dip too low, counting numbers constantly while trying to pay attention to what enemies are around me...trying to look in two directions at once. It would at least help if spores lasted longer, or was easier to spread (with melee, with a gun, these problems aren't that bad, but that just makes toxic lash silly). She is alright, I still like saryn. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Haha this again^^

Ever noticed how saryn allways leads the damage charts despise the small numbers? The visibility is horrible but saryn strongly scales off toxic damage.

The spore detonation damage is defined by the summ of all toxic proccs and the toxic is spread with the spores. Seems to work individually for each procc but the statistics speak for themselfes. This is dmg that doesn't even take the viral proccs into consideration which is a x2 boost to each source in the game. Wanna get better numbers? Spread spores and toxic.

 

Miasama isn't quite the damaging ability anymore. What it does is popping spores in a large area without erredicating them completely (what molt does sadly)

 

And btw...it doesn't scale well-compared to what exactly? Ash's bladestorm?(which is currently under DEs radar '____' )

Edited June 5, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[UltimateGrr]

5 hours ago, Magneu said:

I've seen a Saryn top damage charts in hour long missions, shred crowds of level 100 enemies, and halve the health of enemies two rooms over.

She doesn't do burst damage (although Viral procs could be counted as such), but her sustained damage/team utility is off the charts. Personally, I would give Miasma a couple more meters of range/seconds of stun, but that's just me; not really my playstyle anyway.

I have 2, and only 2, things I would love to do to Saryn.  First is make Toxic Lash a channel skill, and second is to make Miasma a ground target AoE with decent range instead of an AoE centered on Saryn (radius of effect remains unharmed).

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

11 minutes ago, UltimateGrr said:

I have 2, and only 2, things I would love to do to Saryn.  First is make Toxic Lash a channel skill, and second is to make Miasma a ground target AoE with decent range instead of an AoE centered on Saryn (radius of effect remains unharmed).

Set molt-

-Use miasama from a different location.

É violà.

 

I'd go with molt generating aggro + snow globe/iron skin scaling!

[V31L]

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Haha this again^^

Ever noticed how saryn allways leads the damage charts despise the small numbers? The visibility is horrible but saryn strongly scales off toxic damage.

The spore detonation damage is defined by the summ of all toxic proccs and the toxic is spread with the spores. Seems to work individually for each procc but the statistics speak for themselfes. This is dmg that doesn't even take the viral proccs into consideration which is a x2 boost to each source in the game. Wanna get better numbers? Spread spores and toxic.

 

Miasama isn't quite the damaging ability anymore. What it does is popping spores in a large area without erredicating them completely (what molt does sadly)

 

And btw...it doesn't scale well-compared to what exactly? Ash's bladestorm?(which is currently under DEs radar '____' )

Ok go ahead and put saryn against 5 level 110 bombards and what damage will she do. Then go ahead and try one of these frames exca, mesa, ash, wukong, valkyr, magnetize mag, even frost with enough power strength can strip all armor and deal so much damage. Im talkinf about kinda end game content and end game for me is level 110+ bombards or heavy gunners. For the record ive never had a saryn with that toped the damage i did when im playing my best frames.

[bubbabenali]

10 minutes ago, V31L said:

 

Ok go ahead and put saryn against 5 level 110 bombards and what damage will she do. Then go ahead and try one of these frames exca, mesa, ash, wukong, valkyr, magnetize mag, even frost with enough power strength can strip all armor and deal so much damage. Im talkinf about kinda end game content and end game for me is level 110+ bombards or heavy gunners. For the record ive never had a saryn with that toped the damage i did when im playing my best frames.

lvl 110 Bombards, huh.

Who is so stupid to go in a full cell long enough to spawn lvl 110 Bombards without enough CPs to strip their armor down to 0?

[--Q--uaint]

11 minutes ago, V31L said:

Ok go ahead and put saryn against 5 level 110 bombards and what damage will she do.

I ain't saying I'm the end-all-be-all, but my melee Saryn build and a Mios facerolled 20 level 135 Bombards. They didn't die especially quickly, but in a survival where the enemies got that high, my melee combo would have started at 3x minimum and they would most likely not have any armor.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

20 minutes ago, bubbabenali said:

lvl 110 Bombards, huh.

Who is so stupid to go in a full cell long enough to spawn lvl 110 Bombards without enough CPs to strip their armor down to 0?

Plus: saryns kit includes wide spread and squad friendly dps.

Put saryn in a squad vs a few 100 of these enemys and see who does the most dps ... (or like, play the game and look at the results.)

Edited June 5, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)Nyxn607]

Saryn is far from weak as damage goes.  I obviously don't know your play style, but I would recommend as others have to spread spores like your life depended on it (it kinda does).  If you are running CP and using primarily a high status chance melee weapon with toxic lash I don't see how there would be much of an issue with killing the enemies you are having troubles with.  Sure bombards/heavy gunners are a pain and have huge scaling issues the higher the level, but that is to be expected in an endless type mission where scaling is supposed to get more difficult.  Also, comparing Saryn to other frames that deal direct damage instead of DOTs is not a fair comparison.

[V31L]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Plus: saryns kit includes wide spread and squad friendly dps.

Put saryn in a squad vs a few 100 of these enemys and see who does the most dps ... (or like, play the game and look at the results.)

what im trying to say is that im a solo player so i tend to judge the frame on the level of power i can get with it without a squad. i know im taking it a bit too far putting my self against 5 10 20 level 110+ bombards but i can use other frames like the ones i mentioned above and i can roll through any amount of any level of any type on enemy. gonna say this again FOR ME she feels weak as a solo frame against high level enemies while other frames are just really powerful. 

[UltimateGrr]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Set molt-

-Use miasama from a different location.

É violà.

 

I'd go with molt generating aggro + snow globe/iron skin scaling!

So Miasma would cast from Molt's location?  I can dig it.  Still want a channeled Toxic Lash though.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I barely use her. It's not because of miasma being easy or hard. I just haven't found a solo mission she excels in compared to other frames. She just feels way too complicated to get results when the bombard says here's a face full of missiles, and a fist punch to the ground, oh and enjoy this flame wall. 

I'm like okay. Press 1. Now uh press 1 again. Now do I press 2? Or 3 then 4. Oh, hey hold on with the Fire wall. No? Well S#&$! 

[Genitive]

7 hours ago, V31L said:

I have not done any tests other than the miasma combo.

See? Here is your problem.

 

The only thing Saryn needs is Molt getting better scaling.

[V31L]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Nyxn607 said:

Saryn is far from weak as damage goes.  I obviously don't know your play style, but I would recommend as others have to spread spores like your life depended on it (it kinda does).  If you are running CP and using primarily a high status chance melee weapon with toxic lash I don't see how there would be much of an issue with killing the enemies you are having troubles with.  Sure bombards/heavy gunners are a pain and have huge scaling issues the higher the level, but that is to be expected in an endless type mission where scaling is supposed to get more difficult.  Also, comparing Saryn to other frames that deal direct damage instead of DOTs is not a fair comparison.

i see ur point about how unfair it is but im trying to be fair in my tests. im not expecting her to kill those enemies in just a single button click, i actually love the dot damage change that she got but against those high level enemies she literally deals so low damage that u need a duration of 2 years to kill them xD i know im taking it too far with the enemies but thanks for the feedback :)

[WorstPlayer]

7 hours ago, V31L said:

So i have been playing warframe for quite some time now and i play frames with high DPS mostly. While saryn is supposed to be one she really feals too weak when put against high level enemies.

Saryn performs decent against level 80 enemies but beyond that the damage falls off really hard and she becomes practically useless.

For her miasma build(the one i tested), you need to use all of your abilites to get the highest potential damage out of it and in the end the damage is pretty low when pur against high level enemies. Miasma is so reliant on her other abilites that it kinda feel useless when used alone.

If we compare her with other DPS frames like excalibur, mesa or valkyr she feels top weak. For example excalibur has his exalted blade which is a great ability on its own but the can be enhanced by excalibur's other abilities like the blind and the dash. So excaliburs abilities blend together to make him one of the best DPS frames. Another example is mesa with the new changes . Mesa actually deals damage now and peacemaker is a grear ability on its own where the other abilities help boost the damage and survivability. Same thing can be said about valkyr and other frames. Their abilites work welll together and conpliment each other not like saryn where her other abilites are necessary to to use everytime in order to pull out the combo u want which deals no damage in the end. 

I really think saryn needs better scaling on the damage and better survivability.

I have not done any tests other than the miasma combo. The viral proc is good but their is really not much to follow up with.

I hope i get some good discussion out of this and please if you think im not doing it wrote let me know so i can test again.

LOL THAT TITLE "Saryn is weak!!!!" SARYN IS AMAZING!!!!

[V31L]

1 minute ago, Genitive said:

See? Here is your problem.

 

The only thing Saryn needs is Molt getting better scaling.

an update on that, i actually was testing since the time i posted this with all the different builds i could find. she still feels weak TO ME xD

lets say for example excal at close range dealt 10k damage to a level 100 bombard with one hit, if saryn can deal thats same amount of damage over lets say 5 seconds that would be a perfect situation for me. 

with the other tests i did till now i can see how strong is the dot damage from spores and miasma tops it off with a bit more damage. doesnt feel that useless anymore xD