Lets discuss the nullifiers

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

I never had any problems with nullifiers and don't consider them a challenge.  If someone quits the game because nullifiers, then you get the picture.  

I also don't have a problem with nullifiers thanks to naramon and some other cheap methods.

Doesn't mean they are not broken and annoying.

Edited June 10, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Years, guys, years talking about how bad are Nullifiers.

But they still exist.

Now the word "rework" is the new trend.

Then "rework" Nullifiers.

[senorbushy]

i wouldnt say nullifiers are op, or game breaking. Imo for them to stay they shouldnt have the ability to block bullets. sure nullifiy all you want but blocking a bullet and then stacking an arctic eximus bubble on top of that.. just no. remove bullet blocks and im 100% game. 

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, IceColdHawk said:

I also don't have a problem with nullifiers thanks to naramon.

Doesn't mean they are not broken and annoying.

and why are you saying this to me.  I pretty much agree to a degree with you.  It's just that I see the logic in the Corpus having them.    Think about it for a sec.  If someone is constantly invading in your yard, aren't you eventually gonna do something about it.  Like put up a fence, get a guard dog, or something.  

Edited June 10, 2016 by DatDarkOne
typo

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

and why are you saying this to me.  I pretty much agree to a degree with you.  It's just that I see the logic in the Corpus having them.    Think about it for a sec.  If someone is constantly invading in your yard, aren't you eventually gonna do something about it.  Like put up a fence, get a guard dog, or something.  

...or get a force shield that guards me from attacks and has an almost nonexistent recharge delay.

Sorry if i got to say this but, don't use logic as a strong argument in warframe. It's just not good. Because if then, wouldn't you think the grineer would only spawn lvl 500+ anymore? Or corpus investigate even more op weapons/strategies that give us no chance? Or give the "nully-shield" to every unit including bursas and supra heroes?

Or how about not having to research to dual wield the cestras...

[DatDarkOne]

That still doesn't change my underlying point. Of all the factions, it makes sense that the corpus would have it. Have first, limited amount, or whatever. There could be many reasons for any of those. This is just me applying some reasoning to them. Should the nullifiers get removed or reworked doesn't really matter to me as I'll adapt.

[IceColdHawk]

11 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Should the nullifiers get removed or reworked doesn't really matter to me as I'll adapt.

So you're pretty much okay with whatever happens. Good. Then i don't see the need for you to defend them.

[DatDarkOne]

22 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

So you're pretty much okay with whatever happens. Good. Then i don't see the need for you to defend them.

 

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

and why are you saying this to me.  I pretty much agree to a degree with you.

I'm at a loss here.  

Edited June 10, 2016 by DatDarkOne
spelling.

[DoomFruit]

On 06/06/2016 at 2:32 AM, (PS4)Cwellann said:

Bubble clipping/interaction with a bubble.  I actually think this should stay.  It can nullify void powers, I really don't see walls as much of a hindrance

In that case, all our AoE abilities ought to go through walls as well (see: all sorts of power nerfs recently). If one void-based AoE thing can pierce terrain, then let them all do it..

 

EDIT:

11 hours ago, (PS4)Bowjangelz said:

Sounds like a great idea for an event that ends with them being gone or at least reworked in some way

Yes. An event where the only enemies present are nullifiers. Our goal... is to utterly exterminate them. Find their production and training grounds and DESTROY EVERYTHING.

Edited June 10, 2016 by DoomFruit

[arch111]

Do you enjoy fighting them?

Are you having fun fighting them?

Do you go: "Yes! A Nully! :)" ?

 

[TheBrsrkr]

And how, exactly, would the nullifiers be an effective shield unit without blocking bullets? If the bubble allowed bullets through, the nullifier would mean less than nothing. You would just shoot them and move on. If you want something changed, change the mechanic of the globe to stop favoring high fire rate weapons. 

[VoidNomade]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

How about this little exercise.  Explain in detail how the Nullifier technology works.  What it uses as a power source?  Is the power source itself providing the field naturally or going through some energy conversion?  What is the exact nature of the field created by that tech?  Has any of this information been provided to fully explain the tech behind the Nullifiers?  

 

It doesn't matter how the tech works because as history has shown (events) Lotus would instantly try to wipe out such a tech, any thing that would harm the Tenno.

And nullify tech is the biggest threat to the Tenno since the sentient war.

No matter how you look at it a device without any proper lore behind that nullify void powers IS lore breaking, period.

[TheBrsrkr]

18 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

 

It doesn't matter how the tech works because as history has shown (events) Lotus would instantly try to wipe out such a tech, any thing that would harm the Tenno.

And nullify tech is the biggest threat to the Tenno since the sentient war.

No matter how you look at it a device without any proper lore behind that nullify void powers IS lore breaking, period.

This was covered by Cephalon Cordylon, who said in one of the early issues that the Lotus can't be everywhere doing everything, and gathering information on it isn't easy, even with all the Interceptions we do. 

[DatDarkOne]

8 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

This was covered by Cephalon Cordylon, who said in one of the early issues that the Lotus can't be everywhere doing everything, and gathering information on it isn't easy, even with all the Interceptions we do. 

Be careful buddy.  I was told earlier that logic doesn't apply to Warframe.  It's more like logic doesn't apply to this topic.  

[VoidNomade]

29 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

This was covered by Cephalon Cordylon, who said in one of the early issues that the Lotus can't be everywhere doing everything, and gathering information on it isn't easy, even with all the Interceptions we do. 

Nullify Tech is fundamentally important and not something minor. It's a war game changer like perfect grineer clones. And we know what we've done to this undersea labs.

Edited June 10, 2016 by VoidNomade

[arch111]

I would prefer if they used nullify like a power. They telegraph and then a use it.

After a duration,  it fades.

So many other units do this, and it allow a stealthy ninja to kill the nullifiers before they activate the power.

In that scenario it will not bother me as much how good that tech is.

No one wants this game to only be about the most powerful gun, but I feel we have reached that point allready.

[Ketec]

The bubble needs to be damage sensitive not fire rate. It should not be able to block explosions (like frosts bubble). It should have elemental weakness.

[SenorClipClop]

5 hours ago, arch111 said:

Do you enjoy fighting them?

Are you having fun fighting them?

Do you go: "Yes! A Nully! :)" ?

 

While I wouldn't say I'm that gleeful about it, I do look forward to dealing with nullies as a change of pace. If I'm in a defense mission I'm often just standing in a Snowglobe and firing at approaching enemies, but when I see a Nullifier I know the best way to deal with it is to get out there (if I can take the heat), slide into the bubble and make quick work of it. So I go and do that, usually while practicing my mad parkour skills (my favorite thing is the jump-kick to the face). My squad is appreciative and we move on.

[TheBrsrkr]

4 hours ago, VoidNomade said:

Nullify Tech is fundamentally important and not something minor. It's a war game changer like perfect grineer clones. And we know what we've done to this undersea labs.

None of which really matters if you can't find any information on it, with it being a high priority aspect to the Corpus and all since it helps them not die. No system is unbeatable. 

Grineer tech is far, far less sophisticated than Corpus tech. 

[TheBrsrkr]

5 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Be careful buddy.  I was told earlier that logic doesn't apply to Warframe.  It's more like logic doesn't apply to this topic.  

Logic applies to every topic that is consistent, which lore should be. And it makes as much sense as us channeling void energy. 

[ElCorintio]

Just now, TheBrsrkr said:

None of which really matters if you can't find any information on it, with it being a high priority aspect to the Corpus and all since it helps them not die. No system is unbeatable. 

Grineer tech is far, far less sophisticated than Corpus tech. 

Well, if we look deep in to this a little bit... Grineer had wipe power technology loooong time before any nullifier. And they have Fomorians too... So, Grineer technology looks rusty and dull on outside, but actually it's pretty sophisticated.

 

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

While I wouldn't say I'm that gleeful about it, I do look forward to dealing with nullies as a change of pace. If I'm in a defense mission I'm often just standing in a Snowglobe and firing at approaching enemies, but when I see a Nullifier I know the best way to deal with it is to get out there (if I can take the heat), slide into the bubble and make quick work of it. So I go and do that, usually while practicing my mad parkour skills (my favorite thing is the jump-kick to the face). My squad is appreciative and we move on.

This is why I like them. They force you out of your standard aim & shoot routine.

I notice that any enemy that requires any sort of thinking or strategy to defeat, people hate and call cheesy.

Manics, Bursas, commanders, power fist, ramparts  etc. Even Bombards that force you to react to them. These are all enemies that force you out of your comfort zone and people complain.

This is why armor scaling is the way it is, it's because as much as players say they hate it, if the enemy requires any sort of strategy there are even more complaints. The only way to add difficulty without mass whining is to just make the same routine take longer with increased damage. If an enemy tries to counter, avoid, weaken, ambush or just require anything that requires some forethought- its it's called unfair. 

 

Edited June 10, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

at this point, mostly everyone is just arguing about how much they suck

I think they should be completely removed.
Some say they shouldnt block sniper/shotgun/low RoF bullets
Some say they shouldn't dispel active powers
Some say the shield shouldn't have a damage cap per-shot
Some say there shouldn't be a delay on shield shrinking
Some people actually like them

If they HAD to stay, I feel that either one of 3 things should happen (in addition to removing the delayed bubble-shrink time).

1. No more dispel on active powers (but still prevents new casts)
2. Lower their spawn rate to that of other special units.
3. No more per-bullet damage cap. If I shoot your level 1 Nullifier bubble with a fully maxed Sancti Tigris from 0.5m away, I shouldn't watch it shrink a little bit and grow back

[VoidNomade]

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

None of which really matters if you can't find any information on it, with it being a high priority aspect to the Corpus and all since it helps them not die. No system is unbeatable. 

Grineer tech is far, far less sophisticated than Corpus tech. 

I think you´re mixing things up.

The tech is just there without any story, without any lore.

We don´t need any aspects of how it works all we need to know is that it works and what it does.

And the things it does are lore breaking.

 

You said that lore wise lotus would could/would not attack this tech because of the cepahlon quote where i said that we already have a example of how lotus act when she knows about war game changers, i delivered perfect clones as example. And it´s simple logic that such a tech would be known by lotus and she would try to sabotage and/or destroy it, or are you really arguing she can´t/wouldn´t?!

The category "war game changer" is also applied to nullify tech. So don´t please try to argue in a semantic way which tech is more blabla than bla..

You could only argue if nullify tech is a war game changer or not.

If you think it´s not, spare your words, we have nothing to discus then.

Edited June 10, 2016 by VoidNomade

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

11 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Sounds to me like your friend doesn't like any sort of challenge.  Especially one as easy to get past as Nullifiers.  Or maybe Warframe just isn't the game for him/her.  either is cool and that person's choice/right.  I will admit the story made me smile.  Thanks for sharing it.  :D

He was moreso annoyed by having no clue as to what was happening (as do many new players when first playing).
This high-action, fast-paced, horde-style shooter has some random common dude that completely throws a wrench in everything that you think you're supposed to be doing.

This gigantic blue bubble lets you freely enter and leave - doing no damage to you. So you naturally think that it isn't a shield - just some area of dispel.
But wait, you can't shoot through it. Oh wait, your projectiles bounce off of it. Oh wait, you can't kill it with explosions.

If you look at the enemy through the eyes of someone just playing this game - it's confusing

Telling him that he can always hit the Wiki to figure out how to kill a common grunt? Embarrassing as hell.
Usually they quit when they run into the bosses with stupid invulnerability phases (shoot the pipes off of his ice pack three times....THEN you can damage him with those shots to the face!!!).
We couldn't even get past a common enemy this time. It sucks. This game is too engaging, and is WAY much fun to drive everyone away with this kind of stuff.

It isn't a nullifier anymore. At this point, it's Limbo with mobile cataclysm (that also dispels powers). Which makes me hate Limbo even more.

**** Limbo btw

Edited June 10, 2016 by (PS4)SupeBoss