Muscular Female Frame Anyone???

[tnccs215]

52 minutes ago, Eureka.seveN said:

But warframe does have much more elements of realism.

You made my day.
Whatever justification you create in the warframe universe cannot be "it's more realistic". nothing in this game is realistic. Inaros isnt realistic. Chroma isn't realistic. Grineer aren't realistic.

Don't throw excuses of "science" to justify the absence of something on a work where science is obviously just a façade.

Oh, and believe in me, women can be as buffed as Zarya. It might take a bit longuer than for a man, but if they are propense to it, they can get there.

Not to mention how "hey girl, you have a nice frame for muscles. you should do some lifting!" was never heard. Cause, like it or not, muscular women were never considered attractive anywhere, and so, while men are encouraged to get bigger, women are encouraged to get smaller. I don't care what is your opinion on gender politics, this is undeniable.

Not to mention how not all men are able of getting buffed. Hell, I went to a gym and rowed almost everyday for 2 years and all I got was larger shoulders. I'm still pretty skinny.

 

etc etc. Honestly, I just came here to spew a bit. This thread will, as usual, lead nowhere. Any other idea, any theme is ok, but propose a muscular female frame and everyone enters denial mode. "ITS TOKENISM" "IT'S NOT REALISTIC" "IT'S ONLY INCLUSIVE AND THAT'S A BAD REASON SOMEHOW". Whatever. A buffed female character never hurted anyone. Unlike, of course, objectified and sexualized characters. But eh, god forbid someone step aside from the borders of what is considered creatively acceptable.

I'm really still trying to wrap my head around the fact that you said warframe has more realistic basis than Overwatch. I honestly think you too know how full of crap you are. 

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by tnccs215

[SarcasticShepard]

While the idea is appealing, we need to remember that the Warframes are at their core machines and not human. While the idea of a muscular female-appearing frame is appealing to many, remember that it would still be a machine, which are not dependent on muscle density. Note that the majority of the frames, if we see the Warframe as an outer shell or armor, would have abnormally thin or plain unnatural body form (see Limbo's elbow joints).

Lore-wise, I see the Warframes as being built in the image of the original Tenno/Creature/etc that displayed those particular abilities, and so were built to resemble him/her, and from the lore we have, the average Orokin did not appear to espouse the ideals of being uber-muscular, whether male or female.

Finally, going back to the machine reference, it may be that appearances were built around luring opponents into a false sense of security: 'that one looks skinny and weak--OHPROFITSHESPULLINGOFFMYFACE'.

[Technologic141]

13 minutes ago, Ibro156 said:

No offence but did you read it probably. I was just saying the males seem to have more distinctive features and different body builds thats all. Am not saying anything of what you had just said

So they introduced one of my favorite character; Zarya.
Am basically, kindly asking DE to consider the idea of a muscular female frame. -> No offense but that character look like shemale on steroids. (there soud be "'s" on end)
Okay, some of you might jump to conclusions but I ... -> Devs give us free of choice to make your operator ... (explanation what we have and options)

It wouldn't hurt to have a Female Atlas, wouldn't it?  -> Anyway DE said before they rejceted idea of two gender frames (male/female ash for example) and personaly i agree with them. (this idea was here long time ago and it was rejected)

Stop making flame from counter opinions. cheers

[LunarEdge7]

On ‎20‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 3:29 AM, Cyborg-Rox said:

Well, there's always Equinox's Day form...

And that looks like a very thin monkey.

[Dekallis]

2 hours ago, Railgun_Alter said:

Actually, I think Ember WAS indeed a guy in early versions of the game (?

No ember's always been female, there was a unused concept of a male version of her named blaze though which is probably what you're thinking of. This was way back when DE still wasn't sure if there were going to be male/female counterparts for frames because people were asking for it a lot. They considered the idea and then basically rejected the concept of genderswapped frames in favor of each frame being unique.

 

Quote

Don't throw excuses of "science" to justify the absence of something on a work where science is obviously just a façade.

Oh, and believe in me, women can be as buffed as Zarya. It might take a bit longuer than for a man, but if they are propense to it, they can get there.

Not to mention how "hey girl, you have a nice frame for muscles. you should do some lifting!" was never heard. Cause, like it or not, muscular women were never considered attractive anywhere, and so, while men are encouraged to get bigger, women are encouraged to get smaller. I don't care what is your opinion on gender politics, this is undeniable.

Not to mention how not all men are able of getting buffed. Hell, I went to a gym and rowed almost everyday for 2 years and all I got was larger shoulders. I'm still pretty skinny.

Actually it IS true that men are physically better adapted to building bulk. It's possible for women to have the genetics for it but it's uncommon. This is why female bodybuilders often have to use supplements to achieve similar sizes. It's do able yes but not without some cocktail of supplements to aid their physical buildup if they want real bulk. Joanie Laurer(better known as WWE's Chyna) is a good example of a mucular female(Well she was when she was staying fit anyway.) and while she was quite fit, she was certainly not as big as pretty much any of the really muscled men. She actually used to talk about how hard it was for a woman to develop that kind of muscle naturally  and she was (if you believe her claims) lucky enough to have the right genes for it. 

And second Muscular females are often considered sexy, a well toned body is still preferred over flab on a female in general. It's not like people are running out to get the flabbiest girl they see. Girls get less flak about having a flabby belly because who cares about her gut when she's got hood ornaments to distract you from it.  Some guys are really into big muscle women but more typically it's a thing that has a line where it's hot until it's gone too far. It's all about proportion. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Dekallis

[arch111]

Before this thread is locked and buried, along with 99 gender-threads, let's just be clear about one thing. 

This topic is essentially NOT about human muscle-mass. It is about diversity,  and that INCLUDES armor, helmets, armgards and so on.

If you place female warframes over each other and just look at siluettes and features, there are very few real differences. 

- Do the same with MALE warframes and that's a totally different story.

There are no atlases or nekroses among the fem warframes. It's perfectly natural for them to create lean bodies; it's our cultural popular choice.

If there were ever a godess of the sea based on the evil witch from Disneys Little Mermaid, that would be some serious Eldrich horror in your face. And a good reason to make that particular warframe large and imposing.

 

[a-Arcadia]

You failing to see the differences between different female bodies and body-types does not mean there is no variation. in fact It is much more easier to create variation for ladies because they have more "landmarks" to differentiate.

Look males are athletic/buffed/skinny you cannot really change anything else that is why they create atlas, nekros and oberon, creating special "landmarks" for males, In order for them to appear different, and that is the reason why must frames bodies are mainly diversified by means of their "clothing".

And in the clothing department you have trin, nova, ivara, equinox, saryn, and upcoming titania to have a happy diverse closet.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Hayzemet

[Ibro156]

24 minutes ago, Hayzemet said:

You failing to see the differences between different female bodies and body-types does not mean there is no variation. in fact It is much more easier to create variation for ladies because they have more "landmarks" to differentiate.

Look males are athletic/buffed/skinny you cannot really change anything else that is why they create atlas, nekros and oberon, creating special "landmarks" for males, In order for them to appear different, and that is the reason why must frames bodies are mainly diversified by means of their "clothing".

And in the clothing department you have trin, nova, ivara, equinox, saryn, and upcoming titania to have a happy diverse closet.

On 19/06/2016 at 8:37 PM, JRMC said:

The buff, destructive looking form that you are looking for is hardly achieved by women who maintain a healthy lifestyle. Their bodies are drastically different than men's, for obvious reasons, thus no woman ever looks like a male in terms of shape and size. The closest fit female frame you have is Valkyr with toned and accentuated muscles, but it doesn't really matter because it's nothing but a suit of armor, if you'd like to call it that.

P.S.: Weird fetish, bro.

Then explain to me why do dogs hatch from eggs? How does Iron Skin work? How does cry sleep work? Why are there genders for Warframe yet they have no use? Why do they Kavats have reptile features. Your all forgetting one main fact; warframes makes no sense. 

 

So the logic of bulky woman shouldn't matter

[a-Arcadia]

16 minutes ago, Ibro156 said:

Then explain to me why do dogs hatch from eggs? How does Iron Skin work? How does cry sleep work? Why are there genders for Warframe yet they have no use? Why do they Kavats have reptile features. Your all forgetting one main fact; warframes makes no sense. 

 

So the logic of bulky woman shouldn't matter

---Because orokin engineers designed them that way, Orokin are like Baro Ki'teer, they had "good taste", therefore an "ugly bulky female frame" made no sense to them, there's your explanation---

1. Kubrows are not dogs they are an evolution plus mammals can lay eggs (platypuses)
2. Iron skin works by secretion of a highly magnetic isolated ferro-fluid that can harden with a specific imput of void energy
3. Cryo sleep? really? you should figure this out yourself
4. Kavats are also evolving
5. Warframes are biomechanic golems (like angels in evangelion).

There have some imagination please :D

Edited June 20, 2016 by Hayzemet

[Renathy]

12 minutes ago, Ibro156 said:

Then explain to me why do dogs hatch from eggs? How does Iron Skin work? How does cry sleep work? Why are there genders for Warframe yet they have no use? Why do they Kavats have reptile features. Your all forgetting one main fact; warframes makes no sense. 

 

So the logic of bulky woman shouldn't matter

Warframe is a science fiction game. It's obvious as to why many things shouldn't make sense but it kept the idea of humanoid characters, like many games do, and made them equally parallel to the original idea: us, the humans. It's their choice to do so. However it's nothing but armor. You're a walking chunk piece of machinery and biological tissue put together by some freaks in the past.

If you want bulky women, try and go back in time and ask the Orokin to make female armors look as equal as male's. They will probably kill you or enslave you on the spot for thinking of such an idea, but you know, it's all nonsensical.

Edited June 20, 2016 by JRMC

[BornWithTeeth]

Brienne of Tarth would like a word.

 

For comparison:

 

Equinox in her Day Aspect is very clearly one of the burliest of the female 'frames, possibly the most streamlined yet muscular. There are other female 'frames which are physically larger/more imposing, but Equinox in her Day form is the female warframe with the most clearly athletic and no-frills build. Equinox Day! does not look like a curvy woman wearing a skintight catsuit, she does not bother having sexy hips, she looks like a wiry female with upper body strength, wearing armour.

 

 

This is one of the many* reasons that Equinox is objectively** the best Warframe.

 

 

 

 

 

*_{Many, many excellent reasons.}

**_{Not actually objective.}

Edited June 20, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[ComfyOlivia]

1 hour ago, tnccs215 said:

You made my day.
Whatever justification you create in the warframe universe cannot be "it's more realistic". nothing in this game is realistic. Inaros isnt realistic. Chroma isn't realistic. Grineer aren't realistic.

Don't throw excuses of "science" to justify the absence of something on a work where science is obviously just a façade.

Oh, and believe in me, women can be as buffed as Zarya. It might take a bit longuer than for a man, but if they are propense to it, they can get there.

Not to mention how "hey girl, you have a nice frame for muscles. you should do some lifting!" was never heard. Cause, like it or not, muscular women were never considered attractive anywhere, and so, while men are encouraged to get bigger, women are encouraged to get smaller. I don't care what is your opinion on gender politics, this is undeniable.

Not to mention how not all men are able of getting buffed. Hell, I went to a gym and rowed almost everyday for 2 years and all I got was larger shoulders. I'm still pretty skinny.

 

etc etc. Honestly, I just came here to spew a bit. This thread will, as usual, lead nowhere. Any other idea, any theme is ok, but propose a muscular female frame and everyone enters denial mode. "ITS TOKENISM" "IT'S NOT REALISTIC" "IT'S ONLY INCLUSIVE AND THAT'S A BAD REASON SOMEHOW". Whatever. A buffed female character never hurted anyone. Unlike, of course, objectified and sexualized characters. But eh, god forbid someone step aside from the borders of what is considered creatively acceptable.

I'm really still trying to wrap my head around the fact that you said warframe has more realistic basis than Overwatch. I honestly think you too know how full of crap you are. 

 

None of those things are realistic in the sense you're talking about because they don't currently exist in our reality. You know what does exist in this reality? Bodies and body shapes.

I'm only gonna argue it because I think the argument of it being realistic or unrealistic to have the frames be of certain muscle densities and whatnot isn't a discussion based in any sort of facts. We don't know completely what the frames are made of. For all we know, they could all be the same size and still be able to do what they do and the reason for the differing shapes is simply because of how vain the Orokin were. We simply don't know enough about Warframe to definitively say that Rhino is bigger because he needs to be tanky.

They only thing we can be certain about is why DE makes the frames the way they do. I'm taking about themes.

"Oh, and believe in me, women can be as buffed as Zarya."

(The following response is more of a general statement and not so much directed at you Tnccs215)

Here's the problem: Frames are not human. They don't play by the same rules. The frame could be as big as can be or small as can be. It simply doesn't matter. As long as it has the right hardware, it's good. 

It just comes back down to however The Orokin (aka DE) decided to build it.

It all comes back to the point of diversity. Is the point of this just to make sure the "female" frames are on even terms with the "male" frames? Or is this for the sake of diversity? If it's for the sake of spicing things up and not just to push the point of "Well Females can be muscley too!", then there shouldn't be a problem exploring other body types as well. For instance, a sort of Bony (like nekros) build, a tall lanky build like Limbo, maybe even something like a big muscley build. I'm just trying to say that there are plenty of body types to explore that can all match with themes. Maybe a "Lady Death" frames that can envelope enemies in darkness and summon hulking demons or something. Maybe a Time frame that is tall and lanky like Limbo. You have Limbo, the Master of Space, and Mama Clock, the Master of Time.

I'm not saying we shouldn't explore more hulking body types with our female frames. I'm just saying that if you can't find a theme for it, then it's more about just wanting a muscular female frame.

"Whatever. A buffed female character never hurted anyone."

And neither does a non buffed female character. Or you could argue that. Of course, I could just as easily argue that a buffed female character hurts players as well.

Honestly, it's a bad mentality to have to say: "Oh, it's fine cause it's not hurting anyone." The point of games isn't to not hurt people. It's to make people have fun and to be entertained. If spending the time to do it makes a tenth of the community happier with the game, while something else could make 2 tenths of the community happier, it's always better to choose what makes more people happy. Just baselining isn't acceptable in any industry where people want to do a phenomenal job.

Putting Lunaro in the game isn't really hurting anybody, but if they would have spent that time doing something that makes a larger amount of people happy, then that would have been the better choice.

"I'm really still trying to wrap my head around the fact that you said warframe has more realistic basis than Overwatch."

It honestly does. Most things in warframe that don't present in our current reality are generally explained or are based on scientific theories we currently have.

Overwatch is supposed to take place in the near future. How close are we to having a gorilla with enough intelligence to be smarter than most humans? How close are we to having the technology to put gamma rays in a hand held weaponized form? How about sentient robots? How close are we to having fully operational scientific facilities off planet?

Essentially what I'm trying to say is that in the several thousand years between modern times and Warframe, the tech is more believable and is approached in a much more serious tone than the maybe 50 years between modern times and Overwatch. 

We're on the verge of cloning technology, nanotechnology, and even close to being capable of having levitating objects. However, as far as I know, Overwatch never really explains the small things. They just give a general "Winston was experimented on" and "The gun shoots gamma rays". I mean, how exactly does someone in the near future shoot a bunch of bolts or molten metal out of a gun? Sure, some of it can be explained through theories, but a lot of it is technology that we're probably several centuries from discovering (Namely Teleportation and Arrows that shoot Fire Dragons that go through walls).

[a-Arcadia]

7 minutes ago, CoRRh said:

SNIP

This exactly, warframe makes sense within its universe, therefore is much more realistic than overwatch.

[Ibro156]

15 hours ago, Hayzemet said:

This exactly, warframe makes sense within its universe, therefore is much more realistic than overwatch.

So your saying it is possible for it to happen. Warframe is far, far into the future able to make dogs hatch from eggs and cats having scales.

Edited June 21, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed inflammatory quoted comment

[ComfyOlivia]

See, if I say shapes instead of directly saying "bodies" it makes it seem like social justicey and more objective. 

I am still of the thought that a frame should be built around a theme and not the other way around, so don't misunderstand. I don't think this stuff should happen just because people want a muscular female frame. I think it should happen when we have a legitimate theme that a musclar female would match.

In the end, it has to match the game. DE simply wouldn't put in a frame that doesn't match up. You don't have to worry about that. There are plenty of themes that players come up with that would match well that DE won't implement.

Edited June 21, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed inflammatory quoted comment

[ComfyOlivia]

Just now, Ibro156 said:

So your saying it is possible for it to happen. Warframe is far, far into the future able to make dogs hatch from eggs and cats having scales.

You're not understanding. Kubrows aren't dogs. Kavats aren't cats.

Kubrow does not equal Dog.

Cat does not equal Kavat. 

Either way, ever heard of an Armored Anteater?

Normal mammals grow fur and hair, just like the Anteater. The Armored Anteater (aka Pangolin), however, has scales covering it. Weird things like this exist in nature.

Think what we could do by simply changing genes.

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

I honestly think Equinox Day form is actually a Male, while Night is Female. I think this because Equinox is meant to embody duality, Day/Night, Aggressive/Supportive, Male/Female.

[Inarticulate]

Warframes may be remote controlled bio-mechanical golems, but it's implied (by the fact that the Tenno didn't realize they had a body elsewhere until the reveal during the Second Dream quest) that the Tenno control the Warframes as if the Warframe were the Tenno's own body. It makes sense that it would be best to make the Warframes have more typical human proportions and body types to make it easier for the Tenno to become accustomed to controlling the Warframe. After all, the longer it takes for the Tenno to be able to move the Warframe to its fullest capacity, the longer it would take to field the Warframe in combat. The Orokin didn't really have much time to spare training their new Tenno warriors with the Sentients breathing down their necks.

Even if the body type isn't one that the Tenno is used to controlling (for example, males have a higher center of gravity than females, which would affect one's sense of balance), the body types currently represented by Warframes are all "typical" athletic human body types that the Tenno would at least be familiar with having seen. Chances are that familiarity would at least ease the transition between body types if the Tenno needed to change control to a different Warframe or if the Tenno's first Warframe were sufficiently different from their own body type.

As for why male Warframes have a greater diversity in body type, that is simply a reflection of real life. Excluding both male and female bodybuilders (which require extraordinary effort), male athletes have a larger diversity in body type due to their genetic predisposition to be able to grow larger amounts of muscle mass more easily. This allows males to more easily cover a wider spectrum of body types without extraordinary effort. Go to your local gym and take a look at the people you see there (without being creepy); you're sure to find that same broader diversity in males than in females.

As for the argument regarding fat Warframes, Warframes are designed first and foremost as tools of war. That much extra weight (with a reminder that human fatty tissue is likely significantly less dense than the Technocyte-infected tissue and Ferrite armor that Warframes are made out of) would be detrimental to the performance of a Warframe in its primary function, not to mention the added functionless bulk would impede mobility. On the other hand, if you were willing to give up the mobility, you could probably fit an arsenal of weaponry and shield batteries within that kind of bulk (though the Tenno in control would likely have some difficulty getting accustomed to the very different distribution of weight).

[(PSN)Romulus93]

Do we really need a Warframe for every snowflake out there because there are alot of snowflakes...

[Ibro156]

7 minutes ago, Monsoon said:

 

Kubrows aren't dogs, but they are for all intents and purposes, basically descendants of dogs/similar mammals. Same goes for kavats. To argue this would go against what can easily inferred from just looking at the damn things. What he's saying is that Warframe is far enough into the future for drastic changes in the world as we know it, both in nature and technology. Therefore a lot of far fetched things in science fiction, but the setup we have here allows it to be plausible and make sense. 

So what you're saying is that a frame that can potentially have a body type like that should have that body type? See what you're saying there? You're just downsizing the SJW bias, but it's still there. Advocating it at all, rather than just letting DE choose what they put in, is a poor course of action. You're basically saying, if we can have a frame that can help satisfy the "diversity", we should. You're not explicitly saying whether or not we should choose another body type over a more "diverse" one if the designers want to do that. I'm being strict about this sure, but again "give them and inch, they'll take a mile". The best solution to avoid this type of bias is just let the creators do what they want with the feedback. 

I'm not against bulky frames, but it shouldn't happen unless DE decides so. 

And I totally agree with that. But am saying if they ever going to come across a female tank concept, they should consider the idea of a bulky female. To be honest it was me with my poor choice of words. I should had been more clearer and said "consider it when you have the chance".

[Mak_Gohae]

On 6/19/2016 at 3:27 PM, Ibro156 said:

Blizz was getting criticized for their female characters during their Bate Stage. So they introduced one of my favorite character; Zarya.

All the characters released up until this point were already made by the time OW was first shown, Blizz did absolutely nothing.

They were getting criticized ONE twitter account that made a post about it and maybe a few sites repeated the tweets because twitter is apparently a source for stories now.

 

Anyway, yes, 90% of the female frames are slim/athletic build. They need to add several other types. And when i mean several i mean several, not just one that may not be criticized by certain folks.

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Mak_Gohae

[Gorila_Azul]

No one can subtly propose a different design preference without being labled a SJW now.

[jfhsanseiIII]

22 hours ago, Akavakaku said:

I guess the thing isn't as much that we need a muscular female warframe, as that female warframes currently have much less distinction between their body shapes. And there's no reason, either in lore, realism, or game successfulness, for the female warframes to be less distinct.

To be fair there's no real gender distinction to the frames other than their shape. Underneath it's all pretty much the same grotesque mess as far we know. 

[Camelslayer]

I mean, Equinox exists. There's a reason people legitimately thought Equinox changed gender when transforming.

[Ibro156]

Just now, Camelslayer said:

I mean, Equinox exists. There's a reason people legitimately thought Equinox changed gender when transforming.

It was the theme as. The concept for Equinox was about duality. Day and Night. White and Black. Male and female, well until DE said day form is female which kinda ruined it for me :C

13 minutes ago, p_ar7hur said:

No one can subtly propose a different design preference without being labled a SJW now.

Pretty much :/