So is bringing friends along for void runs not going to be a thing anymore?

[Aratir]

Only one with the key... Selects only forma everytime.

[Necrius]

I'm more concerned about sabotages. No more 2 primes for 1 mission, I guess.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

45 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Should I remind you about "looking for keysharing T3 survival" and then leaving ?

I suppose that's true, though I wasn't a fan of keyshares anyway; keys are easy enough to come by. In any case, this new system is fully capable of fixing that, without preventing my friends from receiving my benefits. All they need to do is not allow additional people to choose from multiple rewards, instead just giving them one.

[Trichouette]

1 minute ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

I suppose that's true, though I wasn't a fan of keyshares anyway; keys are easy enough to come by. In any case, this new system is fully capable of fixing that, without preventing my friends from receiving my benefits. All they need to do is not allow additional people to choose from multiple rewards, instead just giving them one.

I don't get exactly what you mean but... Everybody just get ONE reward you know ? Or maybe I just really misunderstood you.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

ultimately, all we can do is wait for the release of SOTR and see if DE staff clear up some FAQ's regarding the Void key system.

doesn't affect me personally, as I'm mostly a Solo player anyway.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

6 hours ago, Trichouette said:

I don't get exactly what you mean but... Everybody just get ONE reward you know ? Or maybe I just really misunderstood you.

So if you put up a projection or whatever, you get to choose your reward. Don't, and you only get what the host has or what the host picks (not sure which is better).

Edit: this is how I think it should work. This is not the way it was described.

Edited July 6, 2016 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Trichouette]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

So if you put up a projection or whatever, you get to choose your reward. Don't, and you only get what the host has or what the host picks (not sure which is better).

Not sure.

I think it works like this :

• Each person with a projection get to pick his loot among X possibilities, X being the amount of tennos with a projection
• No projection ? you get nothing.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Trichouette

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, Trichouette said:

Should I remind you about "looking for keysharing T3 survival" and then leaving ?

I think the problem some people are worried about is: Some just do the mission for the sake of it and invite others along so they can get something too.

I from time to time do a "H> 5T4C" or something like that, using 5 keys people normally dont have. Now those guys I invite wont get a thing because I was the only one to bring a Projection. Which means they must have a Projection to get anything.

But I believe DE made things easier, since they are now rewarded only by Tier instead of Tier and Mission Type.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

So if you put up a projection or whatever, you get to choose your reward. Don't, and you only get what the host has or what the host picks (not sure which is better).

 

5 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Not sure.

I think it works like this :

• Each person with a projection get to pick his loot
• No projection ? you get nothing.

Actually, this is what I understood:

4 Squad members. 3 bring Projections. They activade the tear and complete the challenge. At extraction those 3 will get a reward screen with 3 rewards, one for each Projection used. They get to chose which one they want.

The guy who didnt bring a Projection wont get the reward screen.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Venom-Snake

[Trichouette]

2 minutes ago, Venom-Snake said:

Actually, this is what I understood:

4 Squad members. 3 bring Projections. They activade the tear and complete the challenge. At extraction those 3 will get a reward screen with 3 rewards, one for each Projection used. They get to chose which one they want.

The guy who didnt bring a Projection wont get the reward screen.

So... exactly what I said ^^

2 minutes ago, Venom-Snake said:

I from time to time do a "H> 5T4C" or something like that, using 5 keys people normally dont have. Now those guys I invite wont get a thing because I was the only one to bring a Projection. Which means they must have a Projection to get anything.

 

Well there is no point anymore.

If they add the feature to increase the level of the enemies on the new star map (I think and hope it's planned) you'll now be able to host lvl 50-60 survival on earth :D

Edited July 6, 2016 by Trichouette

[Kaotyke]

Just now, Trichouette said:

So... exactly what I said ^^

I know. I'm just giving the long answer.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

Have they changed things from the Dev stream then? On the Devs stream you took your projection to a tear, charged it up and the took it back to a new console on your ship. That's were you got your reward, not mission end screen.

[Nijyumensou]

''cry about keyscammer''

''cry about preventing keyscammer by removing keyshare as a whole''

you guys are something..

[SpeedOfLightPuncher]

Well maybe the reward wont be at the end of completing the void tear but when you go to your projections table and see what you get. And then if you don't want it you squish it in to get better stuff. You will probably play the tears with friends but not the projections.

[Tomppak]

14 minutes ago, Nijyumensou said:

''cry about keyscammer''

''cry about preventing keyscammer by removing keyshare as a whole''

you guys are something..

What's the problem with this? People are complaining about keyscammers - basically, people who promise to carry their own weight, but then don't, leeching your reward for nothing AND basically stealing 1 reward from you because you'll get just 3 instead of four - And "preventing keyscammer by removing keyshare as a whole" is basically saying that "since some of you can't play fair and share your toys, and it makes a lot of players upset, then let's prevent everyone from sharing toys!".

In short, removing keyshare as a possibility isn't fixing the problem with keyscammers. I want to emphasize that "removing keyshare" as seems to be happening, is a new feature - it isn't directed to the community as a "fix" for keyscammers. If it was intended as a "fix" for keyscammers, it would basically mean that the whole community is punished because a few can't be honest.

Think about it this way: If we didn't get new star chart, but instead DE announced that because of keysharescammers, EVERYONE who takes part in a void mission will use up the correct key - That would suck, and it would be just punishing everyone, don't you agree?

 

Further, people aren't upset about keyscammers because they leech rewards without doing their part - People are mainly upset (to my experience) because keyscammers directly steal 1 reward from you. If I wanted a boar prime BP and went to a T4 MD keyshare, I'd expect to get 4 chances to get the BP for 1 use of my key. If 1 of the 4 dudes scams and scrams when it comes to their turn, I'm not upset that they got 3 rewards for free - I'm upset that I lost 1 chance to get the thing that I wanted. Heck, if I used the first key and the BP dropped from the first run, I wouldn't even care if the other 3 used their keys or not.

[Voltage]

3 hours ago, armedpoop said:

Time for part prices to skyrocket.

This indirectly hurts the economy and ducats. If all the cheap crap gets expensive, new players can't afford nyx prime and ez stuffs, while now you can't buy junk for ducats. RIP baro for newer players

[Nijyumensou]

40 minutes ago, Tomppak said:

What's the problem with this? People are complaining about keyscammers - basically, people who promise to carry their own weight, but then don't, leeching your reward for nothing AND basically stealing 1 reward from you because you'll get just 3 instead of four - And "preventing keyscammer by removing keyshare as a whole" is basically saying that "since some of you can't play fair and share your toys, and it makes a lot of players upset, then let's prevent everyone from sharing toys!".

In short, removing keyshare as a possibility isn't fixing the problem with keyscammers. I want to emphasize that "removing keyshare" as seems to be happening, is a new feature - it isn't directed to the community as a "fix" for keyscammers. If it was intended as a "fix" for keyscammers, it would basically mean that the whole community is punished because a few can't be honest.

Think about it this way: If we didn't get new star chart, but instead DE announced that because of keysharescammers, EVERYONE who takes part in a void mission will use up the correct key - That would suck, and it would be just punishing everyone, don't you agree?

 

Further, people aren't upset about keyscammers because they leech rewards without doing their part - People are mainly upset (to my experience) because keyscammers directly steal 1 reward from you. If I wanted a boar prime BP and went to a T4 MD keyshare, I'd expect to get 4 chances to get the BP for 1 use of my key. If 1 of the 4 dudes scams and scrams when it comes to their turn, I'm not upset that they got 3 rewards for free - I'm upset that I lost 1 chance to get the thing that I wanted. Heck, if I used the first key and the BP dropped from the first run, I wouldn't even care if the other 3 used their keys or not.

no, it is not a punishment nor a fix. It is a prevention from player hating player and increasing toxic within the community, that has alway been the downside of keyshare. if you think that there is just a few of them then you are clearly wrong because the fact we can't witchhunt those scammer openly is why it seem so. Almost everyone who got keyscammed before will rage about it in different form, it is definitely not healthy for the community as a whole. The new feature open up new form of gameplay, it is changing for good or bad , idk but I rather have recruiting chat clear of "keyshare only" or "don't believe ''player name'' because he/she is scammer'' so I rather like the new concept instead of the current same old farming ways.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Nijyumensou

[Nijyumensou]

10 minutes ago, -Voltage- said:

This indirectly hurts the economy and ducats. If all the cheap crap gets expensive, new players can't afford nyx prime and ez stuffs, while now you can't buy junk for ducats. RIP baro for newer players

clearly it doesn't affect new player because they are going to play in the new warframe so what they don't know is not going to affect them. Beside, all thing are still farmable.It's more like RIP to vet who no longer buy junks with cheap plat. ( ember prime is a great example , only vet are bothered by the pricing problem, there are still new player who are willing to buy them at over 1k)

Edited July 6, 2016 by Nijyumensou

[Tomppak]

27 minutes ago, Nijyumensou said:

no, it is not a punishment nor a fix. It is a prevention from player hating player and increasing toxic within the community, that has alway been the downside of keyshare. if you think that there is just a few of them then you are clearly wrong because the fact we can't witchhunt those scammer openly is why it seem so. Almost everyone who got keyscammed before will rage about it in different form, it is definitely not healthy for the community as a whole. The new feature open up new form of gameplay, it is changing for good or bad , idk but I rather have recruiting chat clear of "keyshare only" or "don't believe ''player name'' because he/she is scammer'' so I rather like the new concept instead of the current same old farming ways.

I agree with you - it doesn't feel like the new system is ment like a fix nor punishment, and I want to emphasize that before I actually get to try the new system, I'm neither for nor against the new system - who knows, it might be a lot better than the current one! I merely wanted to point out that the post that I quoted - "cry about keyscammers" -> "Cry about removing keyshare" isn't exactly a fair comparison.

Keyshare is/was invaluable to new players who don't have that many keys. An example: I did 200 waves of defense before I got the part I wanted (I actually got it twice, but lost one of those to a DC) - As a relatively new player, I don't have 10 keys of any single T3 or T4 mission, so keyshares are the best, maybe only, chance I have to get the parts I want. Also older players hosting a mission and taking me&other newbies along for the ride. If the projections are tradeable, then old players can trade their excess projections to newer players - but that's a lot more hassle than just hosting the mission.

If the drop chances stay the for projections (compared to void drops), maybe we'll not get 1 projection per key, but something like 2, 3 or 4 projections per key to make up for the lack of keyshare?

Also, not going to affect new players because they won't know about the old system? Yeah, if I can use 1 of my key today to get 4 chances at a drop, and people who start next week can only get 1 chance per key, then the new system does affect them - but it's not so much about the system, and more about the fact that they didn't start playing a week before. Imagine that arcane helmets became untradeable - It would be clearly unfair towards the new players, because older players have an advantage they can never catch. Similarly, I'm sour about the fact that Bladed Rounds and Argon Scope don't drop anywhere anymore, and cost silly amounts of plat (not to mention primed chamber) - ie, I will never be able to catch older players in terms of loot&mods because a lot of those have been cycled out or are exclusive to events. At worst, the new system, if it works like it sounds like it will, means that new players need to do four times the grinding that older players needed to do, in order to obtain the same items. However, before the system is actually implemented, we don't know for sure. Maybe obtaining primes actually becomes easier and requires less grinding. Maybe it's just as hard. But if it becomes suddenly harder and more time-consuming, then that's sort of a problem... And this is why I wish DE would give us more info about how the projections work - so that I'd know if I should or should not burn through as many keys as I can before the update.

 

EDIT: What I'm trying to say, is: If the drop chance per projection is the same as drop chance per key, and every key becomes one projection, and getting projections is as easy/hard as getting keys is now, and keyshare doesn't function like it used to do: Then new players will need 4 times as many keys as the old players needed, and that means 4 times the grind, which would be unfair.
However, we don't yet know if that will be the case, so all we can do is wait and see.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Tomppak

[Tomppak]

Aaaand for some reason, I had totally missed the dev workshop that explains most of how the projections and void tears work. Sounds good, and "keysharing" is still a thing - and even better than before, it would seem!

 

Taxi-ing also seems like a possibility. Sure, a player won't get a reward if they didn't have a projection, but it sounds like people can bring different projections into the mission, so it's likely that newbies can get carried by taking "lower quality projections" into missions while the vets can bring the good stuff. I just hope that we can see the projections in the squad like we see dragon keys and auras.

[worminthewood]

Good news for our Tenno in sales.

There's been a lot of talk on the forums about players afking, leeching, 'stealing', etc,... = lots of yes and no's for adding a 'kick-option'.
Maybe this is DE meeting 'us' halfway

[worminthewood]

4 hours ago, Ins. said:

It's more like 4 people each get a pizza, and you get to eat from all 4. Keysharing is a great system as long as people don't leave.

 

Well said.

[Sloan441]

2 minutes ago, worminthewood said:

There's been a lot of talk on the forums about players afking, leeching, 'stealing', etc,... = lots of yes and no's for adding a 'kick-option'.
Maybe this is DE meeting 'us' halfway

Be careful what you wish for...

Personally, I've never had much use for keysharing. Keep in mind this is entirely a creature of the playerbase and DE had nothing to do with it. I never bothered much with it because I was always willing to spend the bulk of my time farming keys and never liked dealing with the bad behavior that went on around this particular "feature". In fact, it's bad enough that unless I really need the extra warm bodies to complete a mission, I almost never use PuGs to farm for prime pieces. It's either solo or with clanmates.

I don't do sorties for the same reason. it's not worth dealing with the lowest common denominator when attempting them. Clanmates? Sure. Solo? Often have to, when I can be bothered. PuGs? Not worth the mental wear and tear.

I like the idea of the new system, since it seems it'll short circuit all this--at least to some degree. What it does to the secondary economy in the game I couldn't care less about. I only participate in it very rarely and I don't take any of it personally (unlike many). So, yeah, looking forward to the new system quite a bit.

[i.chit.you.not]

void nerf: before 1 key and 4 players can get item, now 1 key per item per player, welcome to the rework

[Nijyumensou]

2 hours ago, Tomppak said:

Aaaand for some reason, I had totally missed the dev workshop that explains most of how the projections and void tears work. Sounds good, and "keysharing" is still a thing - and even better than before, it would seem!

 

Taxi-ing also seems like a possibility. Sure, a player won't get a reward if they didn't have a projection, but it sounds like people can bring different projections into the mission, so it's likely that newbies can get carried by taking "lower quality projections" into missions while the vets can bring the good stuff. I just hope that we can see the projections in the squad like we see dragon keys and auras.

there will be no more keysharing ( Only players with a Projection will be able to select a reward and all projection are used in the same run) and they didn't mention that every individual can bring different projections into the same run so don't assume on that yet.

[Nijyumensou]

10 minutes ago, g4yb4ll said:

void nerf: before 1 key and 4 players can get item, now 1 key per item per player, welcome to the rework

previously we needed keyshare was because people wanted more chances for their desired item but now ,we have about 4 option to choose from( which reduced the grinf for item). it sounds pretty good unless you prefer quantity over quality of your item...