Cray Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) I'm not gonna beat around the bush here. Draco made the Focus farm tolerable. I spent the week leading up to this update playing public Draco in the evening, for the express purpose of hitting the daily cap. Didn't even meta it, and still hit the daily cap in a semi-reasonable amount of time. I was prompted to do this after hearing that A: Vazarin's Disciplined Approach affected Trinity's Blessing, and B: Draco was probably going to go away. I'm really glad I maxed that while I had the chance, because without the massive Focus farm that was Draco, I won't be reliably hitting the daily cap anymore, unless I spend most of my day doing only Focus farming, and nothing else. We have a daily cap for a reason. Hitting it should be a reasonable task. Edited July 9, 2016 by DeltaPhantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said: We have a daily cap for a reason. Hitting it should be a reasonable task. Yes. We do. That reason is TO STOP INSANE PEOPLE FROM TRYING TO GRIND INFINITELY. It's a CAP for a reason. It is a CAP. NOT A GOAL. STOP TRYING TO HIT IT. Focus is END GAME. It is SUPPOSED TO BE SLOW. It is meant as a PASSIVE REWARD for players that don't have anything else to earn- to give them something to look forward to unlocking SLOWLY OVER TIME as they continue to play the game. YOU do not see that. DE has said this- that's ALWAYS been the idea and goal of Focus. YOU are twisting it in your head into something that is not. It is working as intended (at least in how you unlock it. Can't speak for the rest considering how OP some of it is and useless other parts are BUT I DIGRESS). It should NOT change to suit you farm crazy people that gotta have everything asap and probably physically harm yourselves grinding on a daily basis and need to do something else. Edited July 9, 2016 by Stratego89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defmoon Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 9 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said: I'm not gonna beat around the bush here. Draco made the Focus farm tolerable. I spent the week leading up to this update playing public Draco in the evening, for the express purpose of hitting the daily cap. Didn't even meta it, and still hit the daily cap in a semi-reasonable amount of time. I was prompted to do this after hearing that A: Vazarin's Disciplined Approach affected Trinity's Blessing, and B: Draco was probably going to go away. I'm really glad I maxed that while I had the chance, because without the massive Focus farm that was Draco, I won't be reliably hitting the daily cap anymore, unless I spend most of my day doing only Focus farming, and nothing else. We have a daily cap for a reason. Hitting it should be a reasonable task. Draco is was just moved to another spot in cere's. But focus is not meant to be leveled in weeks, it is meant to take months to level. It was DE's response to more end game material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genitive Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 The only thing that needs a buff is lenses dropping in more places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koloricsi Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 24 minutes ago, Stratego89 said: Yes. We do. That reason is TO STOP INSANE PEOPLE FROM TRYING TO GRIND INFINITELY. It's a CAP for a reason. It is a CAP. NOT A GOAL. STOP TRYING TO HIT IT. Focus is END GAME. It is SUPPOSED TO BE SLOW. It is meant as a PASSIVE REWARD for players that don't have anything else to earn- to give them something to look forward to unlocking SLOWLY OVER TIME as they continue to play the game. YOU do not see that. DE has said this- that's ALWAYS been the idea and goal of Focus. YOU are twisting it in your head into something that is not. It is working as intended (at least in how you unlock it. Can't speak for the rest considering how OP some of it is and useless other parts are BUT I DIGRESS). It should NOT change to suit you farm crazy people that gotta have everything asap and probably physically harm yourselves grinding on a daily basis and need to do something else. FINALLY, someone reasonable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzorn Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Stratego89 said: Yes. We do. That reason is TO STOP INSANE PEOPLE FROM TRYING TO GRIND INFINITELY. It's a CAP for a reason. It is a CAP. NOT A GOAL. STOP TRYING TO HIT IT. I beg to differ. By adding a daily cap they in fact made it a goal. It's just a daily quest like any other. The first day Focus was released was the day I got the least because I wanted to spam some Tower Capture, ect. I figured I'd make up for it on another day when I do Heircon. Since the cap I've hit it just about every single day. After they nerfed stealth farmring for the eleventy billion time. I've just had a booster going. I've had a booster going non stop for 2 months now. I was MR21 and have nothing worth leveling. It was handy for Akstilleto and Vauban, but nothing else. Just wasted. And I pay it gladly.... All because there's a cap. If they had simply diminished the gains a little and not had some abilities be completely OP MUST HAVE they wouldn't have this problem. I've seen proper Alternate Advancement and I've seen horrible ones. Focus is the later. You can't really make s system that's accessible by casual players and not prone to abuse by hardcore ones. The best method I've seen is a soft cap where the stronger things are gained early. Take D3 for example. After your 800th? Paragon, all you get are stats. They do something but they're not as strong as that Crit or Crit Damage. I wouldn't even consider D3 the better form either. Edited July 9, 2016 by Xzorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 10 minutes ago, Xzorn said: I beg to differ. By adding a daily cap they in fact made it a goal. It's just a daily quest like any other. No. They did not. They made it a CAP. They said people were grinding WAY too hard and added a CAP TO STOP PEOPLE FROM CLEARING FOCUS BECAUSE IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE CLEARED QUICKLY. YOU think it's a goal even though THE DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES SAY IT IS A CAP. YOU do not win that argument- THE DEVELOPERS DO. 100% OF THE TIME. IT IS THEIR GAME MAN! What do you not understand about this!!? THE REASON these nerfs and changes happen IS BLATANTLY TO STOP YOU FROM DOING THIS. They have said so on SO MANY OCCASIONS NOW that it is MIND BOGGLINGLY STUPID how people can still not know this and ACCEPT it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Stratego89 said: No. They did not. They made it a CAP. They said people were grinding WAY too hard and added a CAP TO STOP PEOPLE FROM CLEARING FOCUS BECAUSE IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE CLEARED QUICKLY. YOU think it's a goal even though THE DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES SAY IT IS A CAP. YOU do not win that argument- THE DEVELOPERS DO. 100% OF THE TIME. IT IS THEIR GAME MAN! What do you not understand about this!!? THE REASON these nerfs and changes happen IS BLATANTLY TO STOP YOU FROM DOING THIS. They have said so on SO MANY OCCASIONS NOW that it is MIND BOGGLINGLY STUPID how people can still not know this and ACCEPT it. The thing about a cap is, it basically states quite clearly: "You can gain this much per day, and no more". It is therefore, by definition, reasonable to reach said cap. If it were unreasonable, then it wouldn't be that high. I ask you this: Which is a better (hypothetical) design, putting a cap at 50k, but making it reasonable to hit it, or putting a cap at 100k, and making it unreasonable to get more than 50k in a day? In one of those, there's a clear goal that we can reach, then move on and spend the rest of our time doing whatever missions we feel like. In the other, there's an impossible goal that is somewhat motivation-killing. And another thing: You forget that the cap used to be 75k. They increased the cap. What does that say about getting 100k in a day being unreasonable? Edited July 9, 2016 by DeltaPhantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apo86 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Stratego89 said: No. They did not. They made it a CAP. They said people were grinding WAY too hard and added a CAP TO STOP PEOPLE FROM CLEARING FOCUS BECAUSE IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE CLEARED QUICKLY. YOU think it's a goal even though THE DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES SAY IT IS A CAP. YOU do not win that argument- THE DEVELOPERS DO. 100% OF THE TIME. IT IS THEIR GAME MAN! What do you not understand about this!!? THE REASON these nerfs and changes happen IS BLATANTLY TO STOP YOU FROM DOING THIS. They have said so on SO MANY OCCASIONS NOW that it is MIND BOGGLINGLY STUPID how people can still not know this and ACCEPT it. Dude, chill. Sure they intended it that way, but they are going against basic human psychology. If you present a visible cap, then promote it by saying "today you can earn X more standing/focus/whatever!!!", people will take it as a goal. Just like any daily limit (could also be daily quests), if you don't fullfill it, this leaves you with a feeling of having wasted an opportunity. Of course this is an individual thing, for example I couldn't give fewer fks about "wasted" focus or even standing. But I can absolutely understand how others would. And I can not understand your aggro rant, that is purely based on what the developers said instead of what they implemented. Edited July 9, 2016 by apo86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashrah Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 lenses need buff... normal to give 10% greater 20%... problem solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzorn Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 18 minutes ago, Stratego89 said: No. They did not. They made it a CAP. They said people were grinding WAY too hard and added a CAP TO STOP PEOPLE FROM CLEARING FOCUS BECAUSE IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE CLEARED QUICKLY. YOU think it's a goal even though THE DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES SAY IT IS A CAP. YOU do not win that argument- THE DEVELOPERS DO. 100% OF THE TIME. IT IS THEIR GAME MAN! What do you not understand about this!!? THE REASON these nerfs and changes happen IS BLATANTLY TO STOP YOU FROM DOING THIS. They have said so on SO MANY OCCASIONS NOW that it is MIND BOGGLINGLY STUPID how people can still not know this and ACCEPT it. I think you fail to understand the repercussions of a daily cap on a player's progression. It's not a deterrent. It's an accelerate of urge. Honestly I don't care what any Developers say, I've caught many in blatant lies. I look at the scenario in front of me and I watch it unfold. When you attempt to slow down hardcore gamers you make things unreasonable difficult for casual gamers. It's as simple as that. The Focus system is supposed to last a while sure. They prolly should have implemented it better with slower progression while having the system itself have less of a Monumental difference. This lowers the urge players have to grind it. I already own more than half of the entire focus system, including worthless things I never use so you're accusations look pretty pointless to me. I was already done with it a while ago. A daily cap is nothing more than a cheap way to hinder hardcore gamers while making something accessible to casuals. In this case it looks to me like it's failing because casual players are still complaining. I've played games like EverQuest, I'm used to things taking a long time. Try spending an entire day for basically nothing. The Focus system is child's play by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketec Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 CAP or not - they need to get rid of lenses to promote variety. You have huge number of weapons and frames - but are only forced to use 1 set to "farm" it - not gain through normal gameplay. Even worse is the fact that you have a chance to get ONE small lens per SEASON. I completely gave up on it - i switch frames/gear all the time, so i basically gain 0 focus now. I am not going to spend $$$ to buy a stack of greater lens for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 15 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said: I am the OP. Calling me insane, and saying I have nothing better to do than sit around and complain is going to get you nowhere fast. And the cap is fine where it is. It's the ability to get what we're allowed to gain each day that's at issue. Fine. Ask DE to lower it- people will BLOW UP. That's the ENTIRE reason it was RAISED the first time- Because people complained that the ALREADY HARD TO REACH cap was not enough for them because they either didn't have lives or abused some sort of exploit that allowed them to get it incredibly quickly (two such exploits have existed in the past). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stratego89 said: Yes. We do. That reason is TO STOP INSANE PEOPLE FROM TRYING TO GRIND INFINITELY. It's a CAP for a reason. It is a CAP. NOT A GOAL. STOP TRYING TO HIT IT. Logically if we weren't supposed to be able to hit it, then the cap would be lower. Given that it has been raised in the past clearly DE agree that people should be able to hit the cap. If they didn't agree, and didn't want people to hit 100k then they wouldn't have raised it that high. Enough with the caps lock as well, every argument you take part in you go OTT with the caps. It looks like your intention is to win the argument by forcing it down our throats, rather than by using reason and logic. In regards to it being an endgame system we shouldn't be rushing through, it takes millions upon millions of points to get through focus. Even if you hit the cap everyday since it was released you wouldn't have gotten everything. No one can rush through it, no one is wanting to rush through it. Some are just wanting more than the pitiful gains we currently get, especially if you're a solo/duo player. Edited July 9, 2016 by DeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
360Broscoper Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Just now, DeMonkey said: Enough with the caps as well, every argument you take part in you go OTT with the caps. It looks like your intention is to win the argument by forcing it down our throats, rather than by using reason and logic. Exactly my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzorn Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 26 minutes ago, Ketec said: CAP or not - they need to get rid of lenses to promote variety. You have huge number of weapons and frames - but are only forced to use 1 set to "farm" it - not gain through normal gameplay. Even worse is the fact that you have a chance to get ONE small lens per SEASON. I completely gave up on it - i switch frames/gear all the time, so i basically gain 0 focus now. I am not going to spend $$$ to buy a stack of greater lens for everything. Totally agree. The Lens system plays on the urge to grind and have a set pattern for it rather that just progressing through normal gameplay like it should be. I personally don't like the Convergence thing. It feels cheap and arcade-ish. Like I'm going for a high score or something and if you don't grind your focus that stupid thing pops up and annoys you when you're using a frame with a Lens, basically asking you to get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketec Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 keep the lens to "enhance" gain rate - but let a warframe and gear to have a innate/default leech rate to the currently active school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duduminador Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 I pretty much droped the focus grinding when they droped the spawning of mobs on sabotage missions, that said, I have like 20% of Zenurik, Naramon and madurai fully upgraded, started on the other trees but quit bothering. Ever since, I've hardly made any progress at all in it, don't feel like, and I certainly won't, every day I feel like grinding less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koloricsi Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 30 minutes ago, 360Broscoper said: Exactly my thoughts That's your fault that you are triggered by the capital letters. He is right, he could tone down the caps, but he is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Just now, Koloricsi said: That's your fault that you are triggered by the capital letters. He is right, he could tone down the caps, but he is right. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong. It's all subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodystainednikes Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 anyone find it oddly ironically amusing hes defending the cap while spamming caps lock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koloricsi Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 1 minute ago, DeMonkey said: Nobody is right, nobody is wrong. It's all subjective. This is why i hate to comment on anything on the internet. No real arguments, nitpicking. Obviously duh, did i say he is factually right? I didn't, that's. I THINK HE IS RIGHT, better? The focus system is good as it is, the cap is good as it is. I never went out of my way to farm focus, i @(*()$ despise draco and everyone who can only do that and that they are allowed to get themselves to mr 21 like myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Koloricsi said: This is why i hate to comment on anything on the internet. No real arguments, nitpicking. I take it you missed the rest of this thread? We've actually provided 'real' arguments in favour of being able to hit the cap. Stratego is actually the one without an argument, go on, read his posts, he's just shouting at us. 6 minutes ago, Koloricsi said: Obviously duh, did i say he is factually right? I didn't, that's. I THINK HE IS RIGHT, better? Sorry, when people say x is y I tend to think they mean x is y, and not 'I think x is y'. Silly me. 6 minutes ago, Koloricsi said: The focus system is good as it is, the cap is good as it is. xD The cap is fine yes, but the system itself is far from good as is. Edited July 9, 2016 by DeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceColdHawk Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, Koloricsi said: The focus system is good as it is, You mean energy overflow and shadow step. The rest is definitely not worth the hassle. And the focus system is definitely not good as it is. 4 minutes ago, Koloricsi said: Obviously duh, did i say he is factually right? I didn't, that's. I THINK HE IS RIGHT, better? And the way how you said "Finally someone reasonable" pretty much implies that everyone with a differing opinion should be "unreasonable". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koloricsi Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, DeMonkey said: I take it you missed the rest of this thread? We've actually provided 'real' arguments in favour of being able to hit the cap. Stratego is actually the one without an argument, go on, read his posts, he's just shouting at us. He actually is describing what the system IS and how the developers intended it to be. You guys are unreasonable because you want more, constantly more, wanting the final end game progression to be a matter of weeks, if not hours. Also all caps is considered shouting, what he does is he emphasizes while being emotionally invested in the argument. Also the legitimacy of some of the upgrades is another question. Edited July 9, 2016 by Koloricsi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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