DE, we can fix nullifiers with one simple change.

[VisionAndVoice]

Just now, BlackCoMerc said:

Nullifiers totally shut down the ONE thing that sets Warframe apart from other shooters. If all high level content is going to rely on hordes of power cancelling Nullifiers, there is NO reason to play Warframe. I will just go play any other shooter.

And I don't think I am alone in this. Comba/Scramba are much better designed. They offer counter play. Why not use them and ditch Nullifiers?

Because turning your entire late game into a bog standard shooter is a good way to turn your players into someone else's customers.

I do believe that there is more than one thing that separates WF from other shooters, and even if there is just one, it's not the abilities. And I'm yet to see these "hordes", nullifiers are always minority and, unless you have sausages for fingers, not that difficicult to disable. Before you ask - yes, I played high level void. It's difficult not because of nullifiers, it's difficult because it's high levels.

Again, WF gives you more tools than just abilities. If you don't see others it's not because they are not there. 

2 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

And I don't think I am alone in this.

The fact that you're not alone doesn't mean you are right.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Everyone has the idea that one enemy should do only a single thing, otherwise "2hard4me". It's a defensive bubble, so I don't see the problem with defending against any forms of attacks (still, it was nerfed and doesn't block melee anymore).

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, Mochikomi_Shin_Jidai said:

Here is your counter play 101 vs Nullies

Copter melee weapon Slice dice nullie = DEAD  HAve life strike and enuogh hp to survive said dive CHANNLING still works while in  nully! USE IT cant use your engery for anything else!

2. have a Aoe weapon run inside BAM (Tonkor) or simular!
3. have good secondary that's designed to hit nullies from what i see nullies only take 6 hits and then they are down (6 hits not matter what damage I think to a high cap but could be more hits if damage is low per shot, I love Ak-bolto's for this task or even Telo's! Rep AkBoltos <3)

 

Repeat after me:

This is not. About. Difficulty. This is about. Warframes unique.Identity. among. Games.

Nullifiers are robbing the game of what makes it unique. That's damaging the brand of Warframe itself.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

[VirtualViolet]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Have you played any of the void fissures?

I didn't hate Nullifiers until I played that. Having Nullifiers consistently spawn on top of you with fully formed bubbles is a nightmare. Even more so when you're colourblind like me and the bubbles completely obscure the sodding fissure itself.

You don't have to be colorblind to have trouble seeing the fissures with all those gold particle effects flooding the screen. It's a mess. Doable, but a mess.

[Mochikomi_Shin_Jidai]

2 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

-----

your a Ninja!  Ninja doesn't just rely on ONE THING! they adapt

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by Mochikomi_Shin_Jidai

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, VirtualViolet said:

You don't have to be colorblind to have trouble seeing the fissures with all those gold particle effects flooding the screen. It's a mess. Doable, but a mess.

Worse yet, it's the new feature attraction for late game, and it completely invalidates the very thing that makes Warframe what it is: powers.

Go on. Turn late game into a shooter based gear check without powers. Hopefully you've got another game in the works.

[VirtualViolet]

1 minute ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Everyone has the idea that one enemy should do only a single thing, otherwise "2hard4me". It's a defensive bubble, so I don't see the problem with defending against any forms of attacks (still, it was nerfed and doesn't block melee anymore).

It does block melee if you're standing outside of the bubble. The change you're referring to was to fix weapons with a long reach and sweeping strikes that would hit the bubble from inside which would block the attack from hitting the nullifier.

[BlackCoMerc]

4 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

I do believe that there is more than one thing that separates WF from other shooters, and even if there is just one, it's not the abilities. And I'm yet to see these "hordes", nullifiers are always minority and, unless you have sausages for fingers, not that difficicult to disable. Before you ask - yes, I played high level void. It's difficult not because of nullifiers, it's difficult because it's high levels.

Again, WF gives you more tools than just abilities. If you don't see others it's not because they are not there. 

The fact that you're not alone doesn't mean you are right.

Oh, do you have not run Fissures yet then.

If you had, you would understand. They spawn Nullifiers constantly, right on top of the player. So yes, hordes of Nullifiers and Bombards.

[VisionAndVoice]

6 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Nullifiers are robbing the game of what makes it unique.

Visual style?

Freedom of movement?

Flexible gameplay?

Design diversity?

Lax economic model?

Dev's transparency?

Literal S#&amp;&#036;ton of games have abilites these days, WF is not unique here.

Edited July 9, 2016 by VisionAndVoice

[Mochikomi_Shin_Jidai]

Just now, BlackCoMerc said:

Oh, do you have not run Fissures yet then.

If you had, you would understand. They spawn Nullifiers constantly, right on top of the player. So yes, hordes of Nullifiers and Bombards.

Yet again its been confirmed that the Spawing rate is BUGGED for Fissures  STeve is aware and it will be fixed

[TwevOWNED]

I'll take "explosive weapons that have insane damage scaling, no self damage, and are named tonkor" for 400 Alex

[VisionAndVoice]

5 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Oh, do you have not run Fissures yet then.

If you had, you would understand. They spawn Nullifiers constantly, right on top of the player. So yes, hordes of Nullifiers and Bombards.

Joke's on you, I have. Had no problem with them, none that I wouldn't be able to overcome anyway.

 

Want to know why? Because I don't rely on just spaming abilities.

Edited July 9, 2016 by VisionAndVoice

[-N7-Leonhart]

28 minutes ago, VirtualViolet said:

It does block melee if you're standing outside of the bubble. The change you're referring to was to fix weapons with a long reach and sweeping strikes that would hit the bubble from inside which would block the attack from hitting the nullifier.

Yes, the bubble does nothing to block the melee from inside only now. If the weapon's reach is too short, it's natural it will hit nothing inside, but when it comes to hitting from outside directly, I am not sure there would anything capable of that other than maybe Orthros P anyway.

Edited July 9, 2016 by -BM-Leonhart

[DEATHLOK]

1 hour ago, pagepro said:

Allow guns to shoot through the bubble. 

 

/thread

That would defeat the entire concept of a Nullifier. I dislike a number of things about this patch, but I disagree with further desecration of the canon.

I am afraid of their new ability to destroy Frost's Snow Globes, but it corresponds with everything governing their abilities. I say a "wait and see" stance is best at this point.

[DEATHLOK]

5 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Joke's on you, I have. Had no problem with them, none that I wouldn't be able to overcome anyway.

Want to know why? Because I don't rely on just spaming abilities.

I can remember when we used to shoot enemies with guns. Abilites were secondary before power creep turned the system upside down.

[VoidNomade]

59 minutes ago, Krion112 said:

It is the enemy created on the basis of:

• We want Challenge
• We want New
• We Don't want Bullet Sponges

It was a rushed design, using a present AOE shield mechanic just a little tweaked, as Mag spam in certain Missions was getting out of hand and for no other reason.

What you want to glorify was a design fart.

 

[AdunSaveMe]

1 hour ago, BlazerEraser said:

wouldn't that make them too easy to kill?

They're supposed to stop ability spam. Giving them an overlapping regenerating shield that blocks gunfire is just dumb.

It's horrible design. Give bullet shields to something else, don't turn one bloody unit into the god of the battlefield. Spread the BS out a bit.

[BlackCoMerc]

7 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Visual style?

Freedom of movement?

Flexible gameplay?

Design diversity?

Lax economic model?

Dev's transparency?

Literal S#&amp;&#036;ton of games have abilites these days, WF is not unique here.

Visual Style: Urine Yellow is a style? Funny...hmm.

Freedom of Movement: you're pinned down to the Fissure area. This whole event negates that.

Flexible game play: Limbo, Loki, Mesa, Mirage, Nova, Nyx and Zephyr are ALL useless on these missions. Likewise, Bows, Shotguns and single shot guns are at a marked disadvantage.

Design Diversity: Diversity of Bubble Colors, you mean? Blue or Yellow? Between Corpus and the Fissures, I spent more time under bubbles yesterday than Mary Poppins does under an umbrella.

Lax Economic Model: you mean, buy stuff or suffer interminable grind due tonNitain barriers?

Transparency: like, we want to reduce grind...but reducing the number of rewards per key while inflating the number of keys, refusing to share the relic conversion system, and making each mission take longer while also being MORE, repetitive?

Now, are there any other claims you would like factually rebuked?

[BlackCoMerc]

14 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Joke's on you, I have. Had no problem with them, none that I wouldn't be able to overcome anyway.

 

Want to know why? Because I don't rely on just spaming abilities.

Once again (please, try reading this time) this is not about struggling with them. They weren't hard for me, either. I solo ran multiple Fissures. Nully spawned, I killed it first. No big deal.

This is about the numerous ways the limit player freedom, build choice, etc. It's about how they shrink the game experience not their being hard, which they aren't.

My god you people are full of yourselves.

Edited July 9, 2016 by BlackCoMerc

[Ketec]

Bubble should have hp - like frosts globe.
It shrinks as hp goes down and breaks. So every weapon can break them - slow or fast if it can do enough damage.
 

[Mochikomi_Shin_Jidai]

23 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Repeat after me:

This is not. About. Difficulty. This is about. Warframes unique.Identity. among. Games.

Nullifiers are robbing the game of what makes it unique. That's damaging the brand of Warframe itself.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Repeat after me

I BlackCoMerc Need to get Gud

I BlackCoMerc Need to get Gud

I BlackCoMerc Need to get Gud

But seriously This has nothing to do with identity of the game, Sure your a warframe, you have Powers, BUT SHOULD YOU always be allowed to use your powers?  You are also a warrior, With weapon knowledge and KungFU! and god like ability to take a @(*()&#036; beating. within this universe having an enemy that cant stop abilities from being Conjured makes perfect sense given that the Corpus where just Merchant trading class OROKIN! and were like OH F*** THE TENNO KILLED EVERYONE HURRY BUILD TECH TO HELP US NOT DIE!!!

So no Go play COD, Nullies are not going anywhere

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by Mochikomi_Shin_Jidai

[Hixlysss]

1 hour ago, Genitive said:

Or just remove them completely and replace them with something more interesting.

This. The Scrambus and Combus are perfect examples of "something more interesting" to replace nullifiers with.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 minute ago, Mochikomi_Shin_Jidai said:

Repeat after me

I BlackCoMerc Need to get Gud

I BlackCoMerc Need to get Gud

I BlackCoMerc Need to get Gud

But seriously This has nothing to do with identity of the game, Sure your a warframe, you have Powers, BUT SHOULD YOU always be allowed to use your powers?  You are also a warrior, With weapon knowledge and KungFU! and god like ability to take a @(*()&#036; beating. within this universe having an enemy that cant stop abilities from being Conjured makes perfect sense given that the Corpus where just Merchant trading class OROKIN! and were like OH F*** THE TENNO KILLED EVERYONE HURRY BUILD TECH TO HELP US NOT DIE!!!

So no Go play COD, Nullies are not going anywhere

 

Sorry don't do standard shooters. Funny that someone who supports Nullifiers would think of one, though. Very telling.

Is this what you're going to tell the large swath of community who agrees with me? Go elsewhere? How many if us do you think it would take leaving, to noticeably reduce the revenue stream for a game only you would enjoy?

Think about it, while you're off playing the sorts of shooters you obviously want to turn Warframe into.

[cghawk]

32 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

I disagree. Fighting against them is no more or no less fun than against the majority of other enemies. They breack your reliance on abilities, and if your playstyle consists of solely relying on your abilities instead of your abilities and other tools that you have then the problem is not with nullifiers, it's with you.

they were introduced to shut down ability spam, but in reality they shut down:

1 low rate of fire weapons, aka, shotguns, snipers, bows and revolver style secondaries
2. all abilities, whether you spam them or only use them occasionally you both get punished equally

and yeah my fighting is relied on abilities because I like playing wukong, and as soon as I so much as come near them poof goes my staff, and the only counter is to disable my 4th ability, grab my high rate of fire weapon, kill them and activate my 4th ability again, only 4 seconds later to disable it again because another 1 popped up at which point I might as well stop using abilities and turn the game into another CoD but in 3rd person mode.

the reason I find them less fun is because I can't play how I want to play. I can't take my trusty 4-5 forma paris prime and my trust 3 forma marelok and be ready because nullifiers S#&amp;&#036; all over that, meanwhile they are the only enemy(as far as I can remember) that actually invalidate weapons/play styles.

 

I know how to deal with nullifiers, lots of people who complain about them do, the problem is they limit my fun, that is why I only play vs grineer and infested because they don't screw me over with this magically lore breaking unit that popped up out of nowhere with no explanation from the developer, and you know what the grineer and infested are still a challenge, even on lvl 20/30/40 ect ect, why? because so far I haven't been punished by some players cheesing/CC spamming them which forces the developers giving them a nullifier.

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, cghawk said:

they were introduced to shut down ability spam, but in reality they shut down:

1 low rate of fire weapons, aka, shotguns, snipers, bows and revolver style secondaries
2. all abilities, whether you spam them or only use them occasionally you both get punished equally

and yeah my fighting is relied on abilities because I like playing wukong, and as soon as I so much as come near them poof goes my staff, and the only counter is to disable my 4th ability, grab my high rate of fire weapon, kill them and activate my 4th ability again, only 4 seconds later to disable it again because another 1 popped up at which point I might as well stop using abilities and turn the game into another CoD but in 3rd person mode.

the reason I find them less fun is because I can't play how I want to play. I can't take my trusty 4-5 forma paris prime and my trust 3 forma marelok and be ready because nullifiers S#&amp;&#036; all over that, meanwhile they are the only enemy(as far as I can remember) that actually invalidate weapons/play styles.

 

I know how to deal with nullifiers, lots of people who complain about them do, the problem is they limit my fun, that is why I only play vs grineer and infested because they don't screw me over with this magically lore breaking unit that popped up out of nowhere with no explanation from the developer, and you know what the grineer and infested are still a challenge, even on lvl 20/30/40 ect ect, why? because so far I haven't been punished by some players cheesing/CC spamming them which forces the developers giving them a nullifier.

I feel the same. Avoid Corpus whenever possible.

Not because Nullifiers are hard. They really aren't. Run into bubble, kill enemy. Really leet, challenging stuff here. No, I avoid Corpus missions, because they aren't FUN.

And since I play games for fun, that matters.