In regards to the new Fissure system reducing grind.

[Kaotyke]

3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

You are losing relics faster than you're earning them. 

Very true, Its what I noticed after the 2nd day of SotR.

[DeMonkey]

10 hours ago, Venom-Snake said:

Very true, Its what I noticed after the 2nd day of SotR.

Indeed. With the old system there was 0 issue with supply, and I can completely understand why DE would want to change that.

However I believe they have gone too far the other way. Maybe it'll be 1 month, maybe it'll be 5. But I'm certain we're going to start seeing a lot more negative feedback about the new system.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Just wait until DE introduces a "new" relic alongside the release of a new prime access.

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Indeed. With the old system there was 0 issue with supply, and I can completely understand why DE would want to change that.

However I believe they have gone too far the other way. Maybe it'll be 1 month, maybe it'll be 5. But I'm certain we're going to start seeing a lot more negative feedback about the new system.

Unless... They have a chance to be aquired in every mission? I've seen that Capture still gives the Full Health equipment, Extermination, Planet Sabotage... what do they give?

What if the Endless types had a chance to give a Relic in every Wave/Round/Min? Rotation A has low chances, B has medium, C is granted?

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Venom-Snake said:

Unless... They have a chance to be aquired in every mission? I've seen that Capture still gives the Full Health equipment, Extermination, Planet Sabotage... what do they give?

What if the Endless types had a chance to give a Relic in every Wave/Round/Min? Rotation A has low chances, B has medium, C is granted?

Cuurently Endless Derelict gives all relics, however one Axi Relic every 20 minutes is far far worse than doing Pluto's Excav.

Personally, as an expansion over your suggestion, I'd like to see Common Relic Excavator alerts perhaps. They would be tied to a specific era and every rotation would have a high chance for a relic.

Currently Exterminate/Sabotage/Capture don't appear to give Relics, just Spy/Endless to my knowledge.

[DesoPL]

I don't even imagne again doing void surv for prime stuff.

 

Yep there is still grinding, but less time you spend. GG DE.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, DesoPL said:

I don't even imagne again doing void surv for prime stuff.

 

Yep there is still grinding, but less time you spend. GG DE.

I take it you didn't really read the post?

That's okay. You don't need to read the thread, but it's probably a good idea if you're going to post.

Edited July 20, 2016 by DeMonkey

[DesoPL]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

I take it you didn't really read the post?

That's okay. You don't need to read the thread, but it's probably a good idea if you're going to post.

 

I readed, but actually don't understand it at all. I suck with math. xD

[DeMonkey]

Just now, DesoPL said:

 

I readed, but actually don't understand it at all. I suck with math. xD

That's fine. In simple terms the grind hasn't actually been reduced unless you're a vet.

Before now the grind lay in using keys and hoping for the part you want. Now it lies in getting Relics which Vet's don't need to do.

[Letter13]

Moved to General Discussion.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Letter13 said:

Moved to General Discussion.

<3

[Achaix]

Have to agree on most points, +1'd.

[DeMonkey]

On 7/20/2016 at 1:04 AM, ArcusVeles said:

In a vacuum, your very particular set of constraints (only want one particular relic, to chase after one very particular part, without having any other relics at all) sounds bad, but it isn't what real players are going to deal with.  They'll already have relics from just playing the game normally as they progress, and they'll be able to trade their relics, or their parts, or go with particular groups to increase their chances.

So, since you stated that my hypothetical scenario wasn't something real players were going to have to deal with, what do you think about the possibility that new primes will come with their own Relics, thus forcing players to farm for specific relics.

I get the feeling that your original comments were biased by the fact that you viewed my hypothesised scenario as unrealistic, so I'd like to know what your opinion is based on that fact it may no longer be unrealistic.

[ArcusVeles]

15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

So, since you stated that my hypothetical scenario wasn't something real players were going to have to deal with, what do you think about the possibility that new primes will come with their own Relics, thus forcing players to farm for specific relics.

I get the feeling that your original comments were biased by the fact that you viewed my hypothesised scenario as unrealistic, so I'd like to know what your opinion is based on that fact it may no longer be unrealistic.

I already said before that I don't expect to be able to get any one specific part quickly.  I come from the position that not being able to get your hands immediately on anything in this game is a good business model, because everything is tradable and interchangeable and it promotes a lot of changing of plat and goods between players.  It's a healthy business model that doesn't put a lot of strain on players to pay because the only thing you truly need is slots and potatoes, and you can earn those via trading and they're cheap to get if you pay cash instead.

If DE includes a few more relics then I don't technically have a problem with that - maybe we need a few more to make enough space to fit everything, we don't know yet for sure - but the devil is in the details.

It's one thing for parts to cycle in and out of an existing pool of relics so the contents of relics would be constantly fresh (and thus worth trading around), but it's another thing entirely if we are put on a constantly moving treadmill of relics being pulled out from behind us while new ones are put in front of us.  The latter would greatly harm the player-driven market, and to me it'd be a betrayal of trust after the rosy picture they've painted with this new system in devstreams and on the forums.

I haven't heard anything about new relics being released or not yet, and there is space on current relics to put new parts (25 slots are Forma BP, cycle them out over time and put them in the Void/Derelict/etc.) but I do suspect and preemptively push back against the idea of too many new relics or a constant feed of new relics in and old relics out becoming the norm.  It would defeat the point of the system, and would be a lot of work invested just to fall back in to the same exact old problems again.

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, ArcusVeles said:

I already said before that I don't expect to be able to get any one specific part quickly.  I come from the position that not being able to get your hands immediately on anything in this game is a good business model, because everything is tradable and interchangeable and it promotes a lot of changing of plat and goods between players.  It's a healthy business model that doesn't put a lot of strain on players to pay because the only thing you truly need is slots and potatoes, and you can earn those via trading and they're cheap to get if you pay cash instead.

And I've already said no one asking to get it quickly, nor immediately. But there is now a very real chance of players spending 10+ hours in excavation missions alone just to get the relics to then farm a single part. There's a difference between a healthy grind, and spending an entire day working towards something and getting naught.

1 hour ago, ArcusVeles said:

If DE includes a few more relics then I don't technically have a problem with that - maybe we need a few more to make enough space to fit everything, we don't know yet for sure - but the devil is in the details.

It's one thing for parts to cycle in and out of an existing pool of relics so the contents of relics would be constantly fresh (and thus worth trading around), but it's another thing entirely if we are put on a constantly moving treadmill of relics being pulled out from behind us while new ones are put in front of us.  The latter would greatly harm the player-driven market, and to me it'd be a betrayal of trust after the rosy picture they've painted with this new system in devstreams and on the forums.

Thankfully it's confirmed relics aren't being pulled from us, merely the relics are being pulled from the drop tables to then seemingly be replaced by new ones.

Source:

''Mag Prime, Boar Prime and Dakra Prime will re-enter the Prime Vault AND their Relics will no longer be obtainable in-game. 

If you already wield the power of these Primes, they will remain in your Inventory. If you already hold Relics in your inventory that house these Primes, they will remain in your inventory and you may continue to play them.''

 

1 hour ago, ArcusVeles said:

I haven't heard anything about new relics being released or not yet, and there is space on current relics to put new parts (25 slots are Forma BP, cycle them out over time and put them in the Void/Derelict/etc.) but I do suspect and preemptively push back against the idea of too many new relics or a constant feed of new relics in and old relics out becoming the norm.  It would defeat the point of the system, and would be a lot of work invested just to fall back in to the same exact old problems again.

If DE were going to do that, they would have done so already when people called BS on the Prime Vault being a solution to drop table dilution.

I think the easiest and most likely thing DE are going to do is implement new relics, if we're keeping Mag's relics then I don't see Nyx Prime's relics being pulled when she's vaulted.

Edited July 22, 2016 by DeMonkey

[tnccs215]

Only got to read this now.

Good math Monkey, good math indeed. Thanks for the info.

[Antiphoton]

I believe something was mentioned in today's devstream about changing the current relic acquisition method. All types of endless missions will award a lot more relics, maybe they will even drop from Eximus units.

I can't remember if they said that it will be implemented in hotfix 13 or later.

[DeMonkey]

9 minutes ago, Antiphoton said:

I believe something was mentioned in today's devstream about changing the current relic acquisition method. All types of endless missions will award a lot more relics, maybe they will even drop from Eximus units.

I can't remember if they said that it will be implemented in hotfix 13 or later.

Heard about the Eximus change. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me tbh. 

[Fionntan]

29 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Heard about the Eximus change. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me tbh. 

Eximus units are the only ones that drops traces for refining relics.

Probably they want promote endless has the hotspot to farm them.

[Antiphoton]

33 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Heard about the Eximus change. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me tbh. 

Why not? (Asking in a honestly curious way, as your math was very detailed and I'd like to hear your thoughts on this as well.)

The idea behind it was to make us get more relics just by playing normally, so we have to grind less for the relics themselves. We kill lots of eximus every day, so even if it's not the perfect fix, it is still considerably good.

[TheSteelRat]

Right now for some missions there are 7 possible Relics as a reward for a Rotation B. What is worse some are in Rotations Cs, or as a mission completion reward.  Too often when trying to farm a specific Key I feel like this

I would much rather to have less bloated reward table, or even in rotation As where i knew by doing a certain mission I could be significantly assured of getting the Relic in question.  instead of doing 20 minute survivals, or 20 wave defenses, only to find out in the end I didn't get what I wanted.  Yes i might have gotten a relic, but EVERYONE is going to farming like mad for the new relics when they are released

[DeMonkey]

11 minutes ago, Antiphoton said:

Why not? (Asking in a honestly curious way, as your math was very detailed and I'd like to hear your thoughts on this as well.)

The idea behind it was to make us get more relics just by playing normally, so we have to grind less for the relics themselves. We kill lots of eximus every day, so even if it's not the perfect fix, it is still considerably good.

Well, how did the Eximus get the relic in the first place? They can't enter an Orokin tower without being corrupted.

Perhaps they found it from digging, like us. Which begs the question why are they then carrying them around. They serve no purpose in combat, so the relics would be passed onto higher ups and stored in a secure facility until they're capable of doing something with them.

It's a good idea to allow us to get them through normal play, and this would be a 'good' change. But not one that makes sense to me.

[Antiphoton]

5 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Well, how did the Eximus get the relic in the first place? They can't enter an Orokin tower without being corrupted.

Perhaps they found it from digging, like us. Which begs the question why are they then carrying them around. They serve no purpose in combat, so the relics would be passed onto higher ups and stored in a secure facility until they're capable of doing something with them.

It's a good idea to allow us to get them through normal play, and this would be a 'good' change. But not one that makes sense to me.

Well, I guess that the same logic (or lack of) applies to mods and Oberon parts. It's one of those cases where gameplay mechanics take priority over lore. I love the lore of this game and would like to see it affecting as much of the gameplay as possible, but I also understand that in a game of this caliber, it can be hard to keep all the little details justified. I don't think it's that much of a deal (maybe they found the relic during the mission and were supposed to extract with it, but ran into us first).

Anyway, we'll have to wait until Monday and see if they implement some change to the relic acquisition system. 

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Antiphoton said:

Well, I guess that the same logic (or lack of) applies to mods and Oberon parts. It's one of those cases where gameplay mechanics take priority over lore. I love the lore of this game and would like to see it affecting as much of the gameplay as possible, but I also understand that in a game of this caliber, it can be hard to keep all the little details justified. I don't think it's that much of a deal (maybe they found the relic during the mission and were supposed to extract with it, but ran into us first).

Anyway, we'll have to wait until Monday and see if they implement some change to the relic acquisition system. 

Indeed. I did in fact make my own suggestions in a feedback thread, ones that make a bit more sense than having Eximus enemies drop them. I'd be interested to know what you think.

 

[Deathkgt]

I would like to add that Syndicates sell relics pack, and I have gotten Axi's from them.