I think Loki could stand to have some of his utility limited a bit.

[RealPandemonium]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Actually, Loki and Ivara do take more damage while invis when hit.  Why do you think it's best for them to avoid crossfire.  

Loki has no penalties to his defense while cloaked whatsoever.

Ivara loses a relatively large amount of energy (10 before power efficiency) on each damage instance she suffers while in Prowl, but does not take any extra damage to her health or shields.  

It's best to avoid crossfire on these frames because that is the only way they will take damage while cloaked (and in Ivara's case she will lose energy at a potentially high rate.)

Edited August 7, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[ashrah]

loki is one of most balanced frames he have trade off very squishy...with good utility

[DatDarkOne]

14 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Loki has no penalties to his defense while cloaked whatsoever.

Ivara loses a relatively large amount of energy (10 before power efficiency) on each damage instance she suffers while in Prowl, but does not take any extra damage to her health or shields.  

Sorry about that.  I was confusing energy and health.  This is what happens when I run out of coffee while at Work.  

Edited August 7, 2016 by DatDarkOne
correction

[BlackCoMerc]

8 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

And why do you say this?  How is it OP?  I would like a very real thought out answer.  Invis either requires set of factors to be performed(Naramon) or have hard limits placed on them (all the others).  Not to mention they take increased damage when hit while invisible.  

Just for the record, I dislike Loki.  More because of the "master-race" BS than the frame itself.  But when you truly consider the limits (conditions) on those powers of Invisibilty, how can they be considered OP.  Especially in the context of all the available powers in warframe.  

Limits? On Invisibility?

No offense, but...Fleeting Expertise, Continuity/Primed Continuity and Energy Siphon mean there is no functional limitation on Invisibility. You can stay in that state all mission.

Granted, getting all those takes time and effort (or, sadly, cash)...but it's quite doable.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

You can stay in that state all mission.

It still ends and has to be recast. So technically it still has a limit. I still wouldn't consider it as OP. When all other factors are included. I'm also referring to all the invisibilities and not just Loki.

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

It still ends and has to be recast. So technically it still has a limit. I still wouldn't consider it as OP. When all other factors are included. I'm also referring to all the invisibilities and not just Loki.

On Loki, no, it's not OP. Because first, yes, it does need recast. And I was once killed in that half second window by instantly aware "AI" with auto track. And two, because it is his only Tank. He has a useful amount of neither health nor shields, and no armor. Without Invisibility, he would require a buff to other stats just to be playable.

[Naftal]

The biggest imbalance between Loki (and Nyx) and everything else, is that they don't require power str at all.

In my opinion all frames should be as easy to mod in this regard. Either make every frame require every power stat or make one power stat useless for every frame.

I've been playing Loki a lot almost since I started and modding him is so much easier. There's always room for utility and augments, unlike almost all other frames.

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, Naftal said:

The biggest imbalance between Loki (and Nyx) and everything else, is that they don't require power str at all.

In my opinion all frames should be as easy to mod in this regard. Either make every frame require every power stat or make one power stat useless for every frame.

I've been playing Loki a lot almost since I started and modding him is so much easier. There's always room for utility and augments, unlike almost all other frames.

The mod system is a hopeless mess of power creep that should never have been allowed to reach this point. The very first mod to increase a number, with no drawbacks, should have been examined, it's root cause need addressed properly, and the mod scrapped.

For instance, most Radial abilities are useless without Stretch. Which means they all should have received a small range buff, and Stretch should have been scrapped. Allowing mods to straight up increase things, as opposed to alter play styles and increase utility/scope/function, was a tragic mistake whose toxic children are now coming home to roost in droves...

[Shockwave-]

43 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

On Loki, no, it's not OP. Because first, yes, it does need recast. And I was once killed in that half second window by instantly aware "AI" with auto track. And two, because it is his only Tank. He has a useful amount of neither health nor shields, and no armor. Without Invisibility, he would require a buff to other stats just to be playable.

But anyone smart will just decoy a few seconds before you come out of invisibily or take cover. Any well played lokis is always invisible and the recasting is irrelevant

[shoopypit]

His kit doesn't synergize well at all. 2 abilities are completely ignored while the other two are used independently of each other. He could absolutely use a rework. That being said he is still a great frame

[(PSN)B_Psycho2]

Loki isn't overpowered. 

Decoy often gets oneshot 

 

Invisibility has to be recast 

Switch Teleport is nearly useless 

Radial Disarm is his ultimate, of course it kinda has to be good. 

 

If you mod him right, he's extremely powerful, but that doesn't make him overpowered. 

 

That's like saying Nerf volt because discharge has cc

[shut]

21 hours ago, Fuemego said:

If these changes were put in place, would you see yourself using Loki as much as you do now?

Are you kidding? I'd be using Loki more.

I want to play more Loki, but right now I just can't bring myself to do it because of how disgustingly boring he makes the game. It's virtually impossible to die with him as long as you don't blindly walk into a crossfire-- and one of his abilities' main points is to make sure that there is no crossfire.

I keep seeing "but it's so easy to die as loki!" in every one of these threads. I know I'm in the minority here, but frankly, if you're dying as Loki to anything that isn't a bugged AoE hitbox (napalms, scorches, etc), you're probably using him wrong. It is very, very easy to ensure your survival as Loki. When it comes to survival, he has one of the lowest skill ceilings of any frame in the game.

Edited August 7, 2016 by SortaRandom

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Decoy is not even a damage ability 

Utility is a yes. You are not doing this right.

Look: the enemy Ai should already target the highest priority target. But the Decoy should be capable of doing more than standing in one spot and shooting very loud blanks. Stealth frame=scared the crap out of me the first time I used Loki and tried to use decoy and heard it blasting shots at nothing at all while trying to be sneaky.

Yes, radial disarm could use a timer, I'm ok with that, but it needs to do something else to aid Loki in survivability if your going to take away that aspect, as again, he has no ability to directly kill enemies

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

On 8/5/2016 at 11:32 PM, Sasquatch180 said:

Loki has always been a pretty decent / great frame - he is based purely around utility as opposed to the general mixes of most frames, and his kit just synergizes incredibly well. 

But personally I've always thought Loki was a bit too good - he has never been a bad pick, he is always among the highest played Warframes, and his due to the mechanics of his kit he is able to fairly easily make a room of enemies pretty much useless.

Radial Disarm for example jams an enemy's gun for as long as they're alive, turning them into a melee unit that slowly runs up to enemies to do a little swing - which is a problem because all of their enemies can walk faster than them, and also have much greater forms of movement at the drop of a hat.

A single Radial Disarm can make a large group (or a near roomful with a Stretch mod) of enemies nearly useless, and is completely safe when doing so due to his Invisibility. 

And when you factor in Decoy you'll have situations where a group of melee enemies just swarm the Decoy for a ludicrously long time before it either dies or runs out, which is plenty enough time for Loki and friends to either get away or blow them to smithereens.

 

I think what Loki needs is a big nerf to Radial Disarm and Decoy - add in a Duration for how long their effects last. 

What this would mean is that every enemy hit by Radial Disarm would have a Duration where they'll be stuck as a melee unit, and once that duration runs out they "fix" their gun and become ranged again.

And enemies distracted by Decoy will only be distracted for a few seconds before realizing they're shooting a hologram, and will turn their attention back to other hostile units.
f

Oh,look the Loki Master race comes to protect their pampered pet.

Honestly, don't waste time nerfing overrated trash.

Only,reason Loki is considered "Good" and his cheese.But, even then he had to have everyone else "fixed" to stay on top.

And he still cant do It.

 

[DatDarkOne]

38 minutes ago, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

Oh,look the Loki Master race comes to protect their pampered pet.

Honestly, don't waste time nerfing overrated trash.

Only,reason Loki is considered "Good" and his cheese.But, even then he had to have everyone else "fixed" to stay on top.

And he still cant do It.

 

I love this post.  LOL      The bolded part is truly why I believe he doesn't need to be nerfed.  What even funnier is that I'm defending him from being nerfed.  Could it be because the whole idea of nerf is crazy in this case?

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

I love this post.  LOL      The bolded part is truly why I believe he doesn't need to be nerfed.  What even funnier is that I'm defending him from being nerfed.  Could it be because the whole idea of nerf is crazy in this case?

 He is trash. He gives nothing to the team.Provides nothing. And I swear every hunter main from Destiny plays him act about the same and do the same amount of work. I.E. Hiding and acting like they are "Carrying everyone."

 

I mean outside of spy,missions what good is he?

[Chipputer]

40 minutes ago, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

He gives nothing to the team.Provides nothing.

I guess if you consider completely removing the ability for the enemy to shoot at you giving nothing then you're correct.

But you're not correct so I guess I dodged that bullet.

[FINNSTAR7]

Btw, Loki should NOT be the fastest frame in the game, it doesn't make sense for him to be when there are frames like Volt and Banshee...His speed needs to decrease to something closer to 1.1 or 1.15, while frames like those two mentioned above need an increase to something closer to 1.2 or 1.25

Edited August 8, 2016 by FINNSTAR7

[Denninja]

21 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Decoy can't actually tank hits

Invis offers effective invulnerability and trivialization of many aspects of the game due to its effectively infinite uptime and low cost

ST should make its target the target of all nearby allies for a few seconds

RD needs a radius nerf and should have a duration.

Overall, the fact that Loki has a more or less pure dump stat in Power Strength makes him very powerful and creates idealized builds with no drawbacks and no need for trade-offs.  The open mod space that would have been used for strength mods allows Loki to take full advantage of QT+[Primed] Flow for free, which becomes ludicrously good when combined with Invis (and even further with Zenurik.)

They deal increased damage with melee while invisible; they don't take any more damage.

Make Decoy invincible and only keep aggro for a set duration per enemy.

Set all cloaks to deactivate for a moment when attacking and also when taking damage.

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, Denninja said:

Set all cloaks to deactivate for a moment when attacking and also when taking damage.

Come on man. Loki already doesn't any offensive powers. Let the little guy have some form of offense without dying to use it.

[Denninja]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

Come on man. Loki already doesn't any offensive powers. Let the little guy have some form of offense without dying to use it.

Invisibility isn't any more offensive than Decoy or RD. Use those in tandem or position wisely so enemies don't see finisher moves.

[JalakBali]

Good God, no. No. No. No.

I'm not even a Loki player and mostly brought him out only for Spy but you forgot that Loki is really, REALLY squishy. Only Nova might be more squishy than him. Sure, he could go invis, but a stray bullet or accidentally running over pulse mines could kill him. Nerf his powers and what you'd get is an Ash that couldn't kill anything with his powers and die any time he got unlucky by having Hyekka Master or Napalm spraying fire in his general direction.

 

The only downside I could think of of Loki right now is how many players think his invis is so god-like they'd bring him on high level content thinking being invis would do a lot of good.

[Gurpgork]

6 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Come on man. Loki already doesn't any offensive powers. Let the little guy have some form of offense without dying to use it.

Like Radial Disarm, for instance?

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

9 hours ago, Chipputer said:

I guess if you consider completely removing the ability for the enemy to shoot at you giving nothing then you're correct.

But you're not correct so I guess I dodged that bullet.

Oh,my Loki has a skill to get rid of guns. So Impressive. Play Nyx have the guns turn on your enemies.

But,then again. Easy mode is the name of the game huh?

[Chipputer]

12 hours ago, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

Oh,my Loki has a skill to get rid of guns. So Impressive. Play Nyx have the guns turn on your enemies.

But,then again. Easy mode is the name of the game huh?

You said he didn't bring anything to the party. You were wrong.