Make weapons switch faster please

[MJ12]

How often do people switch weapons in Warframe? It seems like they don't do it much, because the default speed of weapons switching is incredibly slow. If you're not playing solo, by the time you finish switching weapons someone's already killed your target-and if you are playing solo, this still happens more often than not. "But you can fix that with speed holster" one might say.

If you feel like using Speed Holster instead of an actual good aura, sure. Except nobody does. I think it's pretty clear that Speed Holster needs to be removed, and the +80% holster speed it gives baked right into the default switch speed. I think it's telling that often players will only use one ranged weapon, and use the other ranged weapon slot for a weapon to leech affinity passively, rather than as part of their arsenal. By allowing faster weapons switching and holstering, people might be inclined to actually carry a primary and secondary weapon, instead of 1 weapon and 1 thing to soak up affinity.

"But what to do about Speed Holster then?" someone might ask. You could get rid of it and give us all fusion stuff. You could make it increase all weapons animations, including reloading, and give it more mod energy to make people use it some of the time. You could make it into an entirely new mod. But either way, I think that if you want Warframe to be a fast-paced game, making weapons switch and holster faster is not going to hurt anyone, and will make the game much more fun.

[Praxxor]

But, why? It'd look really weird if you had Speed Holster all the time. And it makes little sense, yeah it's more convenient, but so is one-shotting every enemy when you have infinite ammo.

[MJ12]

2 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

But, why? It'd look really weird if you had Speed Holster all the time. And it makes little sense, yeah it's more convenient, but so is one-shotting every enemy when you have infinite ammo.

 

How is "weapons switch faster so you can use your primary and secondary in combat instead of basically just having to use one weapon all the time" even slightly comparable to infinite ammunition one-shotting? One of these enhances gameplay, by opening up tactical options. The other just trivializes it.

 

Also, "it'd look really weird" is a significantly smaller problem than "you have 3 weapons slots but probably won't use one of them much if at all." Animation canceling looks weird too, but it has been a significant benefit to a lot of games to allow people to animation cancel, because it increases the skill ceiling of the game and allows for better flow in combat.

[Praxxor]

Just now, MJ12 said:

 

How is "weapons switch faster so you can use your primary and secondary in combat instead of basically just having to use one weapon all the time" even slightly comparable to infinite ammunition one-shotting? One of these enhances gameplay, by opening up tactical options. The other just trivializes it.

 

Also, "it'd look really weird" is a significantly smaller problem than "you have 3 weapons slots but probably won't use one of them much if at all." Animation canceling looks weird too, but it has been a significant benefit to a lot of games to allow people to animation cancel, because it increases the skill ceiling of the game and allows for better flow in combat.

I can't really agree since I always use all of my equipped weapons.

And the point was that both changes are made only for convenience and make no sense as a mechanic, why would it be globally faster for everyone? Yeah we are space ninjas but it also takes us some power to swing some hammers, holstering those in a fraction of a second makes no sense, it'd only make sense for daggers and small firearms

[MJ12]

8 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

I can't really agree since I always use all of my equipped weapons.

And the point was that both changes are made only for convenience and make no sense as a mechanic, why would it be globally faster for everyone? Yeah we are space ninjas but it also takes us some power to swing some hammers, holstering those in a fraction of a second makes no sense, it'd only make sense for daggers and small firearms

 

Your point is actively bad, because "Tenno have incredibly good reflexes and can switch weapons very quickly" makes perfect sense as a mechanic, both lore-wise (Tenno are inhuman killing machines with very good agility and reactions), and gameplay-wise (switching weapons quickly makes loadouts more important and allows for greater use of both weapons). Meanwhile, "one hit kills with infinite ammo" doesn't make sense, because it is actively bad for gameplay and therefore even if there could be some lore justification it should be tossed because gameplay is important.

As to "why would it be globally faster for everyone," maybe because Tenno are incredibly strong and agile space ninjas and therefore should be able to switch weapons a bit faster than Keanu Reeves? Like, even in Call of Duty weapons switching is faster than in Warframe, and Call of Duty is a game where your shootymans aren't bullet-deflecting wall-running space ninjas.

Edited August 7, 2016 by MJ12

[Epsik-kun]

Holstering have to be faster by a few orders of magnitude, not by "80%". Ideally, holstering should be instant. What we are currently having is exclusively detrimental to the overall gameplay quality and deph as it punishes having a multi-task loadout for no good reason.

[Misgenesis]

I would be switching my secondary builds for more specific targets if switch times were faster. I would also use different secondaries more often.

There is no reason why it should not be faster.

[Praxxor]

Just now, MJ12 said:

 

Your point is actively bad, because "Tenno have incredibly good reflexes and can switch weapons very quickly" makes perfect sense as a mechanic, both lore-wise (Tenno are inhuman killing machines with very good agility and reactions), and gameplay-wise (switching weapons quickly makes loadouts more important and allows for greater use of both weapons). Meanwhile, "one hit kills with infinite ammo" doesn't make sense, because it is actively bad for gameplay and therefore even if there could be some lore justification it should be tossed because gameplay is important.

As to "why would it be globally faster for everyone," I don't know, again maybe because Tenno are incredibly strong and agile space ninjas and therefore should be able to switch weapons a bit faster than Keanu Reeves?

It takes them quite some time to swing some hammers, which means that they are not able to move everything as fast as they want, so no, it doesn't make any sense "lore-wise". Switch speed can not depend on reflexes only you know?

Also, one more thing, if the Warframes are so strong that they should be able to move all the weapons so blazing fast (Especially, again, hammers? Opticor? Heavy Blades?), then why can't they control any guns' recoil (especially Zhuge's). Because as far as I am concerned, if they could move those things as fast as they do when you use holster mods, then recoil shouldn't be a thing in Warframe.

[MJ12]

4 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

It takes them quite some time to swing some hammers, which means that they are not able to move everything as fast as they want, so no, it doesn't make any sense "lore-wise". Switch speed can not depend on reflexes only you know?

Also, one more thing, if the Warframes are so strong that they should be able to move all the weapons so blazing fast (Especially, again, hammers? Opticor? Heavy Blades?), then why can't they control any guns' recoil (especially Zhuge's). Because as far as I am concerned, if they could move those things as fast as they do when you use holster mods, then recoil shouldn't be a thing in Warframe.

 

Why can't they? Maybe because they have to swing them a lot harder to deal damage than when they want to holster the weapon. Maybe because recoil exists for the sake of gameplay, rather than for the sake of ~lore~. There are many, many reasons for Warframes to both be able to holster weapons quickly and not swing things with infinite speed, many of which are actually quite sensible.

Your argument is literally based off of the idea that somehow it's impossible for weapons to be quickly switched between without super-fast attacks and no recoil, despite the fact that the things Warframes do are physically impossible already and switching weapons quickly is good for gameplay. Like I said, even Call of Duty allows you to switch weapons faster than Warframe-basically all CoD pistols require maybe .5s to switch to and .7 or so seconds to switch away from, compared to the over 1s switch time of Warframe. This is because spending tons of time switching weapons doesn't make it more "strategic" or anything, it just makes switching weapons unfun and leads to people using Radiation + Viral one-size-kills-all weapons.

[Praxxor]

1 minute ago, MJ12 said:

 

Why can't they? Maybe because they have to swing them a lot harder to deal damage than when they want to holster the weapon. Maybe because recoil exists for the sake of gameplay, rather than for the sake of ~lore~. There are many, many reasons for Warframes to both be able to holster weapons quickly and not swing things with infinite speed, many of which are actually quite sensible.

Your argument is literally based off of the idea that somehow it's impossible for weapons to be quickly switched between without super-fast attacks and no recoil, despite the fact that the things Warframes do are physically impossible already and switching weapons quickly is good for gameplay. Like I said, even Call of Duty allows you to switch weapons faster than Warframe-basically all CoD pistols require maybe .5s to switch to and .7 or so seconds to switch away from, compared to the over 1s switch time of Warframe. This is because spending tons of time switching weapons doesn't make it more "strategic" or anything, it just makes switching weapons unfun and leads to people using Radiation + Viral one-size-kills-all weapons.

Maybe Switch times exist for the sake of gameplay? And what you are saying is completely your own perspective, it's not something i'd like personally.

And seriously, the longest switch time you can have is probably 2-3 seconds, is that downtime really so long that you consider not switching weapons? I find that really hard to believe.

[Epsik-kun]

1 minute ago, Praxxor said:

Maybe Switch times exist for the sake of gameplay?

For the sake of ruining the gameplay, you wanted to say?

1 minute ago, Praxxor said:

is that downtime really so long

Yes it is. It's absurdly long. It's so long, that the only reason that makes me switch weapons is running out of ammo. Imagine having quick melee with a delay of around 2 seconds prior to the actual hit - that's current weapon switching for you.

[MJ12]

4 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

Maybe Switch times exist for the sake of gameplay? And what you are saying is completely your own perspective, it's not something i'd like personally.

And seriously, the longest switch time you can have is probably 2-3 seconds, is that downtime really so long that you consider not switching weapons? I find that really hard to believe.

 

"Probably 2-3 seconds"

Yes, that is so long that switching weapons is something I basically never do in Warframe ever. Because in 2 or 3 seconds, whatever I was switching weapons to deal with is probably dead already, because Warframe is not a slow-paced game. 2-3 second switch times are maybe acceptable in ArmA or other hyper-realistic shooters where most of your shots will miss, single shots are fatal, and getting into firing position is more important than the actual act of shooting most of the time, where gunfights either end in a single exchange of fire or drag on for minutes as both parties hunker down and start spraying bullets in each other's general direction without hitting anything.

They are absolutely not acceptable in a game where you spend most of your time zooming around at a hundred miles an hour fighting hordes of weak enemies which die relatively quickly. In a fast-paced game, everything should be quick.

[KittyDarkling]

I'm so happy to see this in the popular thread section. I've always hated the incredibly long swap speeds, I've found myself having to actually take up defensive/dodging maneuvers when it's time to swap weapons. In end game content it actively takes you out of whatever you're doing and detriments not only you but the whole team. Don't even get me started on the fact that it's all controlled by the host as well. Some hosts will ensure you -never- swap your weapon.

+1 +10 +100 +1000 (if only I could)

[EmptyDevil]

My only thought after reading this is that 80% faster holstering speed would still be too low. 160% faster or higher is more ideal. +1 for this thread though.

[Luther848]

This would be so amazing and there is literally no reason for it not to be implemented.

One of the biggest problems I have with Nullifiers is that even if you want to switch to a secondary to take them out it just takes so long and Nullifiers are so common that you would spend a vast majority of your time just switching weapons.

[clemza]

There are mods for that you know ? Use them ...

It will waste another mod slot ? Well, when they will remove the damages mods, you will have free slots for the +200% hostler speed mods.

[TheScytale]

I don't agree. Praxxor practically said what I think, so I don't feel the need to go on an endless rant here.

 

Just my opinion though.

[Cazzzz]

I myself have never had an issue with holster speeds, and it would be a nice addition. Not exactly an issue I would expect to see in the Popular section though.

Spoiler

This is such a small issue with all of the other stuff happening with the current updates, why is this just now becoming a concern?

 

[jinxeverything]

+1

If its anything like in the Vanquish then am good.

 

[NinjaZeku]

Just now, clemza said:

There are mods for that you know ? Use them ...

It will waste another mod slot ? Well, when they will remove the damages mods, you will have free slots for the +200% hostler speed mods.

Yes, because bandaid Mods for broken / unfun mechanics are always a great solution : |

This seriously needs to happen. DE pls.

[BlackVortex]

everything in this game is supposed to be just bad unless you mod it

the same applies to weapon switching speed, albeit perhaps they should add a mod for it that fits on your weapon/frame too and weapons have their own holster speed so some weapons switch out faster than others

so I vote no to this, you could say the same thing for redirection or vitality, I don't run either of these mods on 98% of my builds because I prefer using other mods...

there is an aura, maybe they should make a mod for it too, if you prefer to use other aura's/mods, then you will just have to deal with a slow holster speed

[(PSN)SuperRaySonic]

12 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

-snip-

 

I'd like this a lot

[ROSING]

I'm not sure why people are arguing against this. It's not like it's going to make gameplay objectively worse in any way. Like, is this going to make your experience of the game suffer? If not, and it's going to make a bunch of other people's experience get a lot better, then why do you oppose it?

[LABAL]

I would sure love to use different weapons instead of just one, but it has always been faster to just reload or quick melee.

Edited August 7, 2016 by LABAL

[MJ12]

8 minutes ago, clemza said:

There are mods for that you know ? Use them ...

It will waste another mod slot ? Well, when they will remove the damages mods, you will have free slots for the +200% hostler speed mods.

"There are mods for that" is a bad argument. "The game is unfun, but if you have a certain combination of things, it makes the game fun again" is the exact opposite of best design practice. Let's not pretend that bandaid mod after bandaid mod is going to be good design and suggest "well let's bandaid a core component of the game instead of actually fixing it, despite the fact that the fix would not only be easier to do but better for the game."

 

1 minute ago, BlackVortex said:

everything in this game is supposed to be just bad unless you mod it

the same applies to weapon switching speed, albeit perhaps they should add a mod for it that fits on your weapon/frame too and weapons have their own holster speed so some weapons switch out faster than others

so I vote no to this, you could say the same thing for redirection or vitality, I don't run either of these mods on 98% of my builds because I prefer using other mods...

there is an aura, maybe they should make a mod for it too, if you prefer to use other aura's/mods, then you will just have to deal with a slow holster speed

"I could either mod my weapon to be fun, or I could mod my weapon to be more effective" is a good dilemma said nobody ever. A well-designed game makes effective builds fun, while a poorly-designed game makes it so that you can choose to either have fun or do something boring but effective. Your argument is "you should be able to sacrifice effectiveness to make your gameplay experience fun" which makes no sense ever.

The entire point of the damage rebalances DE is going through is because people have become aware that "everything is just bad unless you mod it" is aggressively, incredibly unfun in the worst of ways and makes it less likely people will continue playing.