Omega-Shadowblade Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Pendragon1951 said: I'll just put Nekros back on the shelf and just keep playing Ivara, what really angers me I have to admit is the false advertisement of the rework, I would have thought with careful play testing before hand, lol, they would have caught this, that's why you have a play test server like World of Warships has to find out things like this before you herald a rework like it's the second coming. I think you are overstating it. You keep saying they praised it and hyped it up, but I looked back through the stuff and it just looks like how they normally showcase changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 you may be correct but that still does not excuse their mis communication and after the fact information or that this should have been caught during play testing and I lol again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-Shadowblade Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Pendragon1951 said: you may be correct but that still does not excuse their mis communication and after the fact information or that this should have been caught during play testing and I lol again. Stuff changes, people adapt. Even the devs can't keep us up to date on every little thing they discover. Play testing is also variable, not a constant. You don't find out everything in one playtesting situation. What looks good in one scenario looks bad in another, and no one can playtest every single one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 once again I agree and that would be true if you only play test a couple of days, but World of Warships lets the community play test their next update for a full week, imagine all the info you can get from that number of players in a week:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-Shadowblade Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Pendragon1951 said: once again I agree and that would be true if you only play test a couple of days, but World of Warships lets the community play test their next update for a full week, imagine all the info you can get from that number of players in a week:) While that is true, what are all the details behind that playtesting? I.e. what goes into making sure that the payback is worth the expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazzami Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said: After more testing it was added back for balance purposes. then wouldn't it have just been better to leave the skill on a timer instead of having shadows on a decay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Well to be honest I'm not sure but it sure seems to be worth it to them because for me at least World of Warships is virtually bug free for me at least:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-Shadowblade Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Just now, Nazzami said: then wouldn't it have just been better to leave the skill on a timer instead of having shadows on a decay See my earlier thoughts. Tl;dr Health decay can allow players to choose which team to maintain without a timer rendering it pointless. Changes in values would help make the results viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-Shadowblade Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Pendragon1951 said: Well to be honest I'm not sure but it sure seems to be worth it to them because for me at least World of Warships is virtually bug free for me at least:) How big is the company that runs it, what are their profit margins? Also don't think of me trying to rain on your idea, I'm just trying to get a frame of reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 The company is Wargaming which also owns World of Tanks which I'm sure you have heard of, they are a big and established company net income is 61 mil euros as of 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-Shadowblade Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Pendragon1951 said: The company is Wargaming which also owns World of Tanks which I'm sure you have heard of, they are a big and established company net income is 61 mil euros as of 2012 Yeah, that's pretty big. Now, lets see what the income of Digital extremes is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 ok you check that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmach1 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 14 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said: See my earlier thoughts. Tl;dr Health decay can allow players to choose which team to maintain without a timer rendering it pointless. Changes in values would help make the results viable. No it doesn't, especially when your shadow team is based on their health/armor/shield ratios instead of whichever you killed first. The game automatically chooses what your shadows will be, so even if you did get all scorpions or whatever then you're just going to get the exact same composition on your next cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kithawk Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Quick comment. I commented earlier about how awful I thought the change to nekros was. Well I actually took him back out and on the desecrate it is actually an improvement. I have my Aura forma'ed to use energy siphon and my comment earlier was that I heard the energy would be shut off while desecration was operating was wrong. Energy siphon works while desecrate is working so as long as you keep your range a little closer. I suggest 100% no boost or 145% max then you should be fine. I ran with just 130% efficiency and had no energy issues with desecrate on all the time and keeping my shadows up almost all the time. On the shadows they are weaker over all given the numbers game but they have boosted the damage mitigation they give. I was running at 80% DM when I was with the 7 shadows and my strength was modified to 175%. I'm not sure what the DM caps out at. Overall its not really a nerf but I was hoping for a buff just because I like Nekros and he needed a little bit to make him one of my goto frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-Shadowblade Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 1 minute ago, alexmach1 said: No it doesn't, especially when your shadow team is based on their health/armor/shield ratios instead of whichever you killed first. The game automatically chooses what your shadows will be, so even if you did get all scorpions or whatever then you're just going to get the exact same composition on your next cast. It still actually takes what you kill into account though. You kill a bombard, you'll likely spawn one bombard but not 7, but if you don't kill a bombard, you won't get one in your next summon. Thus you can still influence what type of team you'll be making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexmach1 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Just now, Omega-Shadowblade said: It still actually takes what you kill into account though. You kill a bombard, you'll likely spawn one bombard but not 7, but if you don't kill a bombard, you won't get one in your next summon. Thus you can still influence what type of team you'll be making. It seems highly unlikely that you'd kill scorpions exclusively and not find a single bombard or at least a scorch, and even then that's still not really enough benefit to outweigh the cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalvorax Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 45 minutes ago, Pendragon1951 said: I'll just put Nekros back on the shelf and just keep playing Ivara, what really angers me I have to admit is the false advertisement of the rework, I would have thought with careful play testing before hand, lol, they would have caught this, that's why you have a play test server like World of Warships has to find out things like this before you herald a rework like it's the second coming. we ARE the test server....the only reason they can do all these massive overhauls is because we are in a state of perpetual beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoninJed Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Yeah I'm not really impressed with the rework for nekros. It all sounded good on the stream but now that I've got a chance to try him out I'm disappointed. You would think this would effect how nekros prime access sells. Hope they can polish him up before the access releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-Shadowblade Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Just now, alexmach1 said: It seems highly unlikely that you'd kill scorpions exclusively and not find a single bombard or at least a scorch, and even then that's still not really enough benefit to outweigh the cons. Yes. As it stands the shadows are not sustainable as I said in my original thoughts. The decay is a mechanic that has standing with why it is there, but things need to be changed in the values to make it so that overall the ability is still viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notlamprey Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 3 hours ago, Kenshin98 said: I mean nerfing the health orb drop was indeed logical, since Nekros's passive already gives health when you kill enemies, so despoil builds won't hurt that much. That seems to be true for me, but what about the rest of a squad (including companions) who might be benefiting from those missing health orbs? Desecrate is now less effective, both as a squad and loot support tool. That was most of my reason for using Nekros; squad support and/or CC. The "army of shadows" business never appealed to me, ever. Having a potent support tool (Desecrate) in the same kit as both a single-target CC (Soul Punch) and an area CC (Terrify) was a really nice combination for me, and I enjoyed it. Right now, Desecrate (and Despoil by extension) feels very much neutered. I don't want to go too far down the 'feedback' hole here, since this isn't a feedback thread, but I can't say I'm really liking how Nekros feels at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War-Zone Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 2 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said: Frost would like a word with you. Following his rework, he is insanely good. I often find myself wondering why I ever play other frames. I wonder if the difference is that some of DE play Frost, and have a good feel for him, but don't much play Mag or Saryn or Nekros... I spoke to Frost and he says that nullifiers kill his globe so often now that there's sometime's no point in putting it up in fissure missions. He also says that he's pretty upset that bosses like the juggernaut can shoot directly through his snow globe now. The rework of Frost was really awesome... then they recently nerfed his main function. You sure you play Frost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCoMerc Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, War-Zone said: I spoke to Frost and he says that nullifiers kill his globe so often now that there's sometime's no point in putting it up in fissure missions. He also says that he's pretty upset that bosses like the juggernaut can shoot directly through his snow globe now. The rework of Frost was really awesome... then they recently nerfed his main function. You sure you play Frost? I don't do Defense missions. Ever. I find them utterly boring. And when possible I avoid the knockdown spam, headache inducing screen fuzz of Infested. I tend to use Frost for CC at higher levels, AiE damage at mid and because of his survivability in general. That said, between direct and indirect Nerfs, powers are creeping ever closer to utterly useless in late game. Another year on this course, this won't even be Warframe any longer. Edited August 11, 2016 by BlackCoMerc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War-Zone Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said: I don't do Defense missions. Ever. I find them utterly boring. And when possible I avoid the knockdown spam, headache inducing screen fuzz of Infested. I used Frost for everything in this game. I left for three months and came back to a monster nerf to his snow globe. Frost could handle almost anything (within reason) and now I find my build struggling a lot more than it used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCoMerc Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, War-Zone said: I used Frost for everything in this game. I left for three months and came back to a monster nerf to his snow globe. Frost could handle almost anything (within reason) and now I find my build struggling a lot more than it used to. This is becoming true for more and more frames. These frames being, in many ways, so grossly overpowered that in no way can balanced, challenging content be introduced with their abilities intact as they exist. That said, as frames are brought in line to reasonable levels of power, so to do enemies need to be. And that, is absolutely NOT happening. See Nullifiers, knockdown spam, auras, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackheartstar_pc Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 11 hours ago, AraonTheDrake said: Yeah, it's nice and fine that you're working on fixes and stuff... But I honestly won't get much enjoyment out of the game until you give some purpose to the endless fissure missions... I know not everyone liked that about the old void, but I really miss challenging myself to stay the longest I can in a defense or survival while getting primes for my efforts... now? Now it's just drop in, get 10 reactant, leave... no matter what the mission is. I don't mind that, it's fun in a way... but I want endless missions to have some purpose again... Which also ties in with any reactant after you already gather 10 being utterly useless and just littering the entire map... Please. I know it takes time to work stuff out, but can this please be addressed? It's like the one major hole in the new void system that hasn't been plugged still. Seconded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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