Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[armedpoop]

19 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Which is subjective, it isn't the red carpet maker it was before, but it certainly isn't half a skill.

I dont think you know what subjective means, nothing in that post was subjective. 

 

Desecrate is objectively worse than what was before. I dont see how less loot overall is "subjective" to you. 

[armedpoop]

8 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

It's actually way better now, it doesn't drop as much health orbs but that's fine. With it being a toggle, you finally get to play the game instead of stopping in a mission and pressing 3 constantly.   I honestly don't know why people hate it....

Maybe if you tried reading, youd know....

The amount of loot is diminished significantly and its much slower to desecrate on top of that. 

The whole "I can play the game now, wow!" argument is weak due to the fact that you didnt "HAVE" to sit sit still and mash 3 for a good desecrate. Theres a little thing called "moderation". When I personally (and probably many others) played him, I would kill some stuff, then Desecrate a few times (or until a specific corpse was desecrated, like a bursa) and then kill some more stuff, rinse and repeat. 

[-CG.WFO.A4NC.EN.CM-Nub]

I think that Desecrate was a buff, since it lets you to actually play the game rather than forcing you to DJ the corpses indefinitely

[ograzzt]

17 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

It's actually way better now, it doesn't drop as much health orbs but that's fine. With it being a toggle, you finally get to play the game instead of stopping in a mission and pressing 3 constantly.   I honestly don't know why people hate it....

I like how people saying about constant pressing 3 before when no one forced you to do that in not premaid farming runs. Ironically even just killing group of enemy and only 1-2 casts of desecrate before changes could give you much more loot. It also was much faster and reliable than what we have now. 

Edited August 16, 2016 by ograzzt

[(PSN)vamp6x6x6x]

No offence, but I think you are being very dramatic....

Worthless is a strong word and you also said that this was his "1 unique use that set him apart from other frames"

Yes, his Desecrate was nerfed, but I think it was a sort of even trade; as he is more mobile now and is extra loot on auto while getting to enjoy the game :)

Just because you viewed him as a loot only frame does not mean that he was suppose to be that way.

In fact, from what I have seen many people who main Nekros don't seem to mind Desecrate change, and why would they? I mean, I sure wouldn't like it if I was expected to just click one button over and over again while the people I play with get to have fun actually playing the game.

[-CG.WFO.A4NC.EN.CM-Nub]

11 minutes ago, Dimanches said:

If no corses nearby Nekros' Desecrate won't consume energy/health, because there's nothing to desecrate : it works like Equinox' Pacify & Provoke, drain of energy is for each enemy/ power used by warframes. Also, Nekros consumption of health/mana is manageable with power efficiency & duration mods. The one thing which makes Desecrate isn't efficient comparing with old Desecrate is desecrated corpse disappears from the ground and you can't desecrate it anymore like it was a long ago when you could desecrate one mob 2 or 3 times till its corpse disappeared forever.

No, the old Desecrate will KEEP the corpse if it fails to successfully loot anything out of it

[xXDeadsinxX]

7 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

Maybe if you tried reading, youd know....

The amount of loot is diminished significantly and its much slower to desecrate on top of that. 

The whole "I can play the game now, wow!" argument is weak due to the fact that you didnt "HAVE" to sit sit still and mash 3 for a good desecrate. Theres a little thing called "moderation". When I personally (and probably many others) played him, I would kill some stuff, then Desecrate a few times (or until a specific corpse was desecrated, like a bursa) and then kill some more stuff, rinse and repeat. 

Yes you can do all of that without spamming 3....even if you stopped  for 1 second and use it, it still counts.

[Ceryk]

42 minutes ago, JMP3 said:

My understanding is that health orbs have been sort of added to a corpse's loot table, so if you get a health orb, that's the extra loot, and if you get a resource, you won't get a health orb.  Ran several 40 minute void survivals with a Shield of Shadows Nekros friend, and there was an excess amount of health orbs with Desecrate constantly up

I'm guessing that some people don't understand that desecrating corpses is basically guaranteed now. Drop rate of orbs was reduced to compensate for the fact that you don't have to cast it 3 or 4 times in a row and still fail to desecrate everything on the battlefield. I use Despoil and I still have Health Orbs littering the floor when I play Nekros.

Oh, and as for the OP's comment about Infested... Infested disappear visually quickly, they do not actually disappear quickly and are still available to be desecrated as long as any other corpse in the game.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Ceryk

[Defion]

22 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

Maybe if you tried reading, youd know....

The amount of loot is diminished significantly and its much slower to desecrate on top of that. 

The whole "I can play the game now, wow!" argument is weak due to the fact that you didnt "HAVE" to sit sit still and mash 3 for a good desecrate. Theres a little thing called "moderation". When I personally (and probably many others) played him, I would kill some stuff, then Desecrate a few times (or until a specific corpse was desecrated, like a bursa) and then kill some more stuff, rinse and repeat. 

" you didnt "HAVE" to sit sit still and mash 3 for a good desecrate"

People just dont want to press numbers anymore for abilitys cause you know "All you do is press 4 4 4 4 4 4, pressing 4 to win".  Not realizing they just want to press 2 or 1 instead cause its closer to the wasd keys..... Aw what the helll, people just want warframe to be a next CoD cause all they really "REALLY" want is just focus on shooting things.

I personaly never liked nekros for loot, I like hydroid more for that even if its just for the wacky smacking around of enemys with tentacles. But its a matter of time befor that will change cause I heard people complaining that is was to OP especialy if you find a choke point in a map. So let us not call it what it is a nerf but let us call it a "rework", cause people dont want to sit around pressing 4, and watch loot build up on 1 spot. When will this "rework" behavior stop. Answer: never cause even DE want to ruinen the game as much as the nerf and "its just pressing 4,3,2,1 how is that fun?" shouters.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Defion

[Varacal]

i'd rather have him loot less but get to play more, than more loot but a stationary desecrator that spams 3 most of the time

[BaneOfOrion]

I have noticed a distinct decrease in resources gained while farming for nano spores recently. this could also be S#&$ty rng because 40 reg lith v1 and 10 radiant v1 relics later, no fragor handle. I do feel like i'm getting more energy though, i'm not running out as much as i used to.

[Gurpgork]

I think the best thing they could have done with Desecrate is to just get freaking rid of it. It adds nothing of value to his kit as a whole (other than cheating the energy economy, which every Warframe benefits from equally), minions can't use the pickups, it does very little to affect a mission as a whole, and it contributes to our massive resource creep problem. 

[----Fenrir----]

12 minutes ago, Varacal said:

i'd rather have him loot less but get to play more, than more loot but a stationary desecrator that spams 3 most of the time

I'm not sure you realize just by how much Desecrate was nerfed. My guess is that the new Desecrate gives around ~30% more loot. The old Desecrate gave around ~75% more loot. That's a massive nerf! It's the combination of not being able to try desecrating the same body multiple times + the desecrate speed being so low that a lot of bodies disappear before you even get a chance to desecrate them.

Yes, you can play Necros now instead of just standing around spamming "3". The problem is that now he gives so little additional loot that there is not much point in playing him at all.

[Tymerc]

Despoil with Equilibrium feels like pre-nerf Rage and Quick Thinking levels of unbalanced. I can literally walk around with infinite health and energy in any given mission. 

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Pros-you can move around more freely.

Cons-desecrate now gives you less loot and hp orbs, you can't desecrate same body multiple times, it desecrate slower (than nekro with natural+drift mood).

All of this make nekro less viable as frame that let you get rare resourses and such stuff and more...what nekros role now overall? Still the same, but less effective.

All of those nerfs in exchange for ability to "play the game"...while previously you wasn't forced to stay in one place and just spam 3, you were able to kill stuff and then desecrate it AND you was getting much more loot than you gonna get now. How thats a sidegrade? Are you joking?

[ashrah]

i play nekro a lot...and use despoil+equilibrium dont have any problems really on 39 min jupiter i looted 37 neural sensors to team

[Eldritchsqueaker]

2 minutes ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:

Pros-you can move around more freely.

Cons-desecrate now gives you less loot and hp orbs, you can't desecrate same body multiple times, it desecrate slower (than nekro with natural+drift mood).

All of this make nekro less viable as frame that let you get rare resourses and such stuff and more...what nekros role now overall? Still the same, but less effective.

All of those nerfs in exchange for ability to "play the game"...while previously you wasn't forced to stay in one place and just spam 3, you were able to kill stuff and then desecrate it AND you was getting much more loot than you gonna get now. How thats a sidegrade? Are you joking?

Not to mention how they nerfed his ult, but that's a topic for another thread. Honestly I'm fine with the toggle, they ought to speed it up and make it do a bit more though.

[ImmortalGryphon]

54 minutes ago, N00b13 said:

I think that Desecrate was a buff, since it lets you to actually play the game rather than forcing you to DJ the corpses indefinitely

Very true, im glad nekros got this rework cause not only can i have fun while getting extra loot, i wont get yelled at for not using it in the first place. Not sure if anyone else has suffered the way i did but before the rework i could never keep health conversion at max power so i was always dying alot, with the rework i can now desecrate without an enemy killing me.

BTW! those who think that desecrate was nerfed, youre not thinking about those who want to use nekros without getting yelled at for not using desecrate just for your own personal benefit. IMHO that way of thinking makes me sick cause the way i see it is youre basically just saying that you want to just blow unprovoked anger on players who want to use nekros for his other abilities just cause they don't use desecrate.

Sure it doesnt give as much loot but honestly i didn't notice the difference even after the rework cause now i can use desecrate without having to watch my back for enemy sneak attacks thanks to health conversion almost always being at max power which means that nekros now almost always has more armor than valkyr ever could even with steel fiber on (not sure how much she would have with max arcane guardian though) with the added bonus of gaining extra resources.

Even with the nerf, people can just run more nekros since as the OP said, 1 corpse desecrated at a time. The answer is simple, just run more nekros in the squad, hell even 2 of nekros pretty much doubles the chance for extra loot, combined with a hybrid built trinity (EV and Bless together) plus any damage buffer, and BOOM! tanky squad with around 60% chance to get extra loot. Did an ODD with a friend of mine (both of us using nekros) and we managed to get to wave 20 without even trying.

1 minute ago, Eldritchkitty said:

Not to mention how they nerfed his ult, but that's a topic for another thread. Honestly I'm fine with the toggle, they ought to speed it up and make it do a bit more though.

His ult nerfed? are you serious? if you are then ask yourself which is worth more to the team "having more loot and allies to protect your sorry a$$, or having more reliable players around who can stick around now cause their games dont crash from all the extra AI in game which came from having 20+ shadows per nekros?".

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Just now, Eldritchkitty said:

Not to mention how they nerfed his ult, but that's a topic for another thread. Honestly I'm fine with the toggle, they ought to speed it up and make it do a bit more though.

Hek i even fine with having hp orbs in main loot pool. i ain't fine with loot speed and with getting only one desecrate per corpse, while previously you will get something from that body for sure.

Edited August 16, 2016 by -CM-Hekovashi

[Eldritchsqueaker]

5 minutes ago, GRIFFONP said:

Very true, im glad nekros got this rework cause not only can i have fun while getting extra loot, i wont get yelled at for not using it in the first place. Not sure if anyone else has suffered the way i did but before the rework i could never keep health conversion at max power so i was always dying alot, with the rework i can now desecrate without an enemy killing me.

BTW! those who think that desecrate was nerfed, youre not thinking about those who want to use nekros without getting yelled at for not using desecrate just for your own personal benefit. IMHO that way of thinking makes me sick cause the way i see it is youre basically just saying that you want to just blow unprovoked anger on players who want to use nekros for his other abilities just cause they don't use desecrate.

Sure it doesnt give as much loot but honestly i didn't notice the difference even after the rework cause now i can use desecrate without having to watch my back for enemy sneak attacks thanks to health conversion almost always being at max power which means that nekros now almost always has more armor than valkyr ever could even with steel fiber on (not sure how much she would have with max arcane guardian though) with the added bonus of gaining extra resources.

Even with the nerf, people can just run more nekros since as the OP said, 1 corpse desecrated at a time. The answer is simple, just run more nekros in the squad, hell even 2 of nekros pretty much doubles the chance for extra loot, combined with a hybrid built trinity (EV and Bless together) plus any damage buffer, and BOOM! tanky squad with around 60% chance to get extra loot. Did an ODD with a friend of mine (both of us using nekros) and we managed to get to wave 20 without even trying.

His ult nerfed? are you serious? if you are then ask yourself which is worth more to the team "having more loot and allies to protect your sorry a$$, or having more reliable players around who can stick around now cause their games dont crash from all the extra AI in game which came from having 20+ shadows per nekros?".

The reduced number is fine, what isn't is the health decay and the fact that the shadows weren't strengthened enough to compensate.

[armedpoop]

20 minutes ago, GRIFFONP said:

Very true, im glad nekros got this rework cause not only can i have fun while getting extra loot, i wont get yelled at for not using it in the first place. Not sure if anyone else has suffered the way i did but before the rework i could never keep health conversion at max power so i was always dying alot, with the rework i can now desecrate without an enemy killing me.

BTW! those who think that desecrate was nerfed, youre not thinking about those who want to use nekros without getting yelled at for not using desecrate just for your own personal benefit. IMHO that way of thinking makes me sick cause the way i see it is youre basically just saying that you want to just blow unprovoked anger on players who want to use nekros for his other abilities just cause they don't use desecrate.

Sure it doesnt give as much loot but honestly i didn't notice the difference even after the rework cause now i can use desecrate without having to watch my back for enemy sneak attacks thanks to health conversion almost always being at max power which means that nekros now almost always has more armor than valkyr ever could even with steel fiber on (not sure how much she would have with max arcane guardian though) with the added bonus of gaining extra resources.

Even with the nerf, people can just run more nekros since as the OP said, 1 corpse desecrated at a time. The answer is simple, just run more nekros in the squad, hell even 2 of nekros pretty much doubles the chance for extra loot, combined with a hybrid built trinity (EV and Bless together) plus any damage buffer, and BOOM! tanky squad with around 60% chance to get extra loot. Did an ODD with a friend of mine (both of us using nekros) and we managed to get to wave 20 without even trying.

His ult nerfed? are you serious? if you are then ask yourself which is worth more to the team "having more loot and allies to protect your sorry a$$, or having more reliable players around who can stick around now cause their games dont crash from all the extra AI in game which came from having 20+ shadows per nekros?".

Your whole reasoning for thinking its a buff doesnt make any sense, nor does it hold in any weight in an argument. Keep your anecdotal evidence to yourself. 

Be objective wherever you can:

Desecrate is objectively worse now because you get LESS loot at as SLOWER rate than before

SoTD is objectively worse now due to having less shadows and theres ZERO change in their damage like they told us there would be, as well as the fact that they lied about removing duration and actually made duration worse for the ability. Your shadows die just from existing now (how cruel)

 

Others have already stated why the abilities arent as good as they used to be.

Edited August 16, 2016 by theclinton
calm down

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Just now, GRIFFONP said:

His ult nerfed? are you serious? if you are then ask yourself which is worth more to the team "having more loot and allies to protect your sorry a$$, or having more reliable players around who can stick around now cause their games dont crash from all the extra AI in game which came from having 20+ shadows per nekros?".

It's nerfed, hard. And it isn't about 20+ shadows, thats not the problem (it is, but we come to this later). Problem is that they lose hp even when nothing happens, and that you able to heal them up for FULL SKILL PRICE. They ain't getting any smarter, you now have less of them, they die faster (unless you spam 4), and they still usable only as cannon meat and what pros in this change? I can think only of "They don't crush toasters now". And i have a tosater that you can't even think that still be able to exist, havent crushed from nekro even once.

[Dan1lo]

1 hour ago, JSharpie said:

Ran him on akkad the other day, and then again on the Uranus survival which I can't remember the name of (Maybe starts of an H?) and still got tons of resources, health orbs, energy orbs, and mods.

Less effective, yes, but certainly not worthless and not ineffective enough to make him not useful in that regard.

Totally agreed. You can actually play the game and get a great amount of loot.

[Cleesus]

Emotions seems to be rising for no reason, simmer down a bit peeps

[Eldritchsqueaker]

6 minutes ago, Dan1lo said:

Totally agreed. You can actually play the game and get a great amount of loot.

I feel like you and many others are missing the point- this isn't about arguing that the toggle isn't a good thing, at least I'm not arguing that, it just needs to be sped up and have its drop chances pushed back up again.