Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[Noble_Cactus]

On 8/22/2016 at 0:19 AM, PsychoticMarik said:

I just wanted to chime in with the others saying its the result of constantly being ignored, and being sick of "fighting the good fight" as another poster put it.

DE quite frankly half &#! nearly 100% of their games content. Nothing is up to par. Even new content lacks basic qol, common sense things from any gamers perspective. You need only to compare warframes gameplay quality with other modern games to notice this, and worse yet nearly every corner of the game is lacking in this sense.

Honestly I think thats the core of this games never ending list of issues. Warframe is a game being developed by non gamers. Thats honestly how it feels, and I'd say the results speak to that. DE come across to me as a dev team that has no genuine interest in creating a truly great game. Just a quick buck. You can accuse me of dev bashing for that comment if you want, but PR bs aside thats exactly how it looks to me.

Health decay even getting passed the drawing board speaks volumes in this regard imho. Not one of us would have implemented that...because common sense as gamers tells us thats excessive and frankly just not fun to deal with, but here it is anyway. Even after we were specifically told it wasnt going to happen.

I dropped by the Nekros thread to post about my dissatisfaction with seeing my favorite frame still not being given proper love, but I knew full well DE would never do anything about it, and I think a rather large portion of the playerbase feel exactly the same way. The posts in this topic alone are pretty telling, but even more telling are the legion of feedback posts in the Nekros topic echoing the exact same request in mass "Remove the Health decay" and yet DE cant even throw us that small bone. This isnt even addressing the feedback for the past frame reworks that have also gone completely ignored. Hell this doesnt even address the other powers that Nekros has that could use some touch ups either.

 

DE appear to be completely disinterested in player feedback(let alone polishing there frame "reworks" at all after they get unleashed)and to me seem to be 100% out of touch with their players, the game itself, and their inner gamer. I honestly can barely be arsed to even keep up with the games updates anymore because its always the same old crap over and over again.

I'm not hopeful for this games future anymore, and I think a substantial part of the playerbase is starting to feel the same way.

 

Preach

I felt this way two years ago and left because everything seemed bleak. Now I come back and the situation is worse, only other people feel the same way. That makes me feel a little better, at least.

DE stubbornly likes to do things their own way, but they've proven time and time again that they don't have the game design experience to really rely on what they think is right without heavy feedback from their more insightful fans. See: unnecessary add-ons to reworks like the Shadows decay.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Noble_Cactus

[Wolfnrun]

Well,  I get the feeling that frames are getting weaker and weaker and weaker...This should not be the case but it is a sad reality. What happens next, I do not know

3 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

I'm not saying it's a bad thing that he benefits from an augment. It is, however, a bad thing that he depends on an augment. It's also a bad thing that he depends on an augment and a ten rank mod that might as well be an augment and has horrific cast times.

Nekros has a tremendous problem where he has to spend so many mod slots making up for his significant shortcomings that he doesn't have any left for building on his strengths.

SoS is a mandatory augment, or you are a dead skelly. I guess our bone daddy is really dead! ...I tried cracking a joke during time like these, I know this stinks, we can't make the best of it?  

[RealPandemonium]

3 hours ago, Noble_Cactus said:

DE stubbornly likes to do things their own way, but they've proven time and time again that they don't have the game design experience to really rely on what they think is right

It's not game design experience that they lack.  They lack actual gameplay experience.  This leads to frequent content additions/edits that make no sense to actual savvy players.  

Edited August 25, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[(XBOX)AuS1010]

a more synergistic Nekros would be better.

the MAIN problem of the shadows is that "THEY BEHAVE TOO MUCH LIKE THE AI." IMO the problems

{I HATE the Dora the Explorer shadows} examples of them?

--the ones that seem to push on endlessly exploring and wandering further and further away from the player's / casters locale and drawing aggro away from the group. (Because of enemy spawning and getting aggro'ed by said enemies) This is especially irritating in endless game modes where the enemies DONT stop respawning.

 

that being said. Ancients are uber autismo when confronted and swarmed by enemies and decide to dillydally and get owned 15 seconds later after failing to target the enemy furthest in the middle of the crowd. why do they just stand there and take it up the @ss? ---(How many ancients does it take to get to the center of a TOOTSIE-POP) The world MAY NEVER know

Grinneer light units (NOT INCULDING heavy gunners / Bombards/ Napalms) exhibit symptoms of pansy-sitis they sit in cover and stay in cover and fail to hit targets that rush them. utter useless behavior. IMO they need to just stand ground and shoot like heavy gunners and bombards and ignore cover.

Corpus exhibit similar behavior of Pansy-sitis and get wrecked because they are "hiding" in cover while being shot at from behind and remain utterly useless.

 

NOW the GOOD things.

Ancients occasionally pick the closest viable target to them and do the grappling hook tenta-rape combo and go ape-$hit like they they do when going up against tenno. <-- why are they all not like this??

 

Grinneer units occasionally focus fire on the biggest threat and tear them to shreds like they do VS tenno. like they are supposed to. <--- why not all combo-zombo-shadows like this?

same applies to the Corpus.

===========================

My suggestion : 

Shadows should ignore cover. and simply seek and destroy.

if no viable enemies are visible to nekros they should all Rush Back to Nekros and stop playing "dora the explorer" 

-=-=-= OR  =-=-=-

They have a threshold distance they can travel and no further, from the immediate position of nekros. Thus allowing players to still camp and have shadows THAT WONT compromise the holdout locale. Also limits their "Dora the explorer" tendencies.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

OR

-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-==-

Grab some ideas from here

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by (XB1)AuS1010

[Matt89Connor]

we are your client DE,but we not pretend a super OP power, just and help to use nekros better than now.

the SofD power is the special ability of him ,and as an ultimate, we want a real ULTIMATE , not this , so pls help us and help you

[Praxxor]

10 hours ago, Misgenesis said:

So i hopped on Draco with Nekros and did 40 minutes. What exactly is wrong with it? Barely more than 2 ever died and i didnt even have to heal repeatedly. It does its job as fire support and distraction quite well.

I can see why they added the health decay, it makes perfect sense.

Draco is what, level 20? That's nothing.

[NightmareT12]

After playing Nekros Prime non-stop for like 2 days straight, I just need to say the health decay issue is bigger than I expected. Specially if you try to build some Power Strength beyond 130% -- as Transient Fortitude and Blind Rage builds make it take a hit even with Primed Continuity on.

I'd really try out to remove health decay off the normal builds and maybe add it to Shields of Shadow (but unaffected by duration, like 5/3/2 per rank) if that's what's worrying DE.

[NocturneOfSolace]

On 8/23/2016 at 11:31 AM, Turtlemancer said:

Maybe make it where if you kill something with soul punch it gives you a shade?

That would be pretty cool

[RealPandemonium]

12 hours ago, Serien5 said:

Sorry you feel this way about your favourite frame. My experience with him is different, using Despoil with Health Conversion and I find him very tanky. Don't really need my energy pool, so you can also run Naramon shadowstep with him, which makes almost everything easy mode. If you don't want to do that, you could also include shield of shadows, which again makes him even more tanky. 

I will agree that he needs a lot of very specific mods to make him this so-called "endgame viable", but many frames and builds do.

I also wish they would dramatically lessen the health decay on the shadows, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with where he's at right now.

I see people touting HC and SoS as if they were introduced with the Nekros rework.  They were just as viable or more, before the rework.  

The Nekros rework gutted Desecrate (both as an HP-restoring power and as a loot-gneration power) in exchange for making it easier to use, and decimated SotD's offensive, defensive, utility, and aggro-drawing potential instead of buffing it.

It's quite frustrating so see so many players talking blithely about how Nekros was finally buffed, when this was effectively a massive nerf to the two powers that were changed.  

The last round of Nekros changes before this one were great, but this one is a major flop.  To add insult to injury, there are even reports of the 7 new Shadows lagging players even harder than the old 15+ Shadow armies!

Edited August 25, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[(PSN)salovel1991]

15 hours ago, Zia_Avenicia said:

This isn't really much of a way to give feedback. All I see is childish anger, and no suggestions on how you think the "problem" could be "fixed."

He's posted many days and collected a lot of feedback from players that wouldn't all fit in this thread. It would literally be a huge wall of text. But the consensus tends to be no shadow decay, better multipliers for consolation of removal of shadows, and recasting to heal shadows not casting more 100 energy. Especially since Nekros p seriously only has a 187 energy pool. As literally the only changes we received to shadows was 7 shadow cap, shield multiplier that's useless because health decay ignores shields (really thought that one out DE), health decay that gives us a shorter duration than before, and recasting to heal for full energy. 

[RafaelFuchs]

Nekros can easily be used in high level situations. He's no Chroma, but can certainly take a few hits. I casually did the sortie for 8/25 with no issues, for an example. No, I do not use Naramon. Yes, I use equilibrium, Health conversion, and despoil as 'mandatory' mods in my builds for Nekros. However, I don't use efficiency mods because I don't have any issues with energy. I don't use the shadows augment because I find it redundant. I use the health regeneration aura because it has the most impact in my build. I can easily keep shadows up, cast terrify when needed, and cast soul punch every now and then for a cheap laugh at the ludicrous rag-dolling.

Build that I commonly use for just about everything:

 

It's a 3 forma build. I was just experimenting with other things.

http://imgur.com/a/pcBSB

I do like the overall changes made to desecrate. They seem fair for the trade-off of it being a toggle. I use to hate the ability and would find myself either never using it or was stuck spamming it for the greater cause of my squad. 

Shadows is on the fence for me. I like: the buff the did to their strength, refreshing of current units, and priority of stronger units. However, I don't like the limit to 7 or the health degradation. So, I guess it's more pro than con for me. They still make good distractions and even dish out some punishment on their own. 

Overall, I'm enjoying him now far more than I use to. He's more mobile in combat and can actively engage in it without losing effectiveness in generating some extra loot.

Edited August 25, 2016 by RafaelFuchs
Broken image link... Fixed?

[F4talFr4me]

4 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

After playing Nekros Prime non-stop for like 2 days straight, I just need to say the health decay issue is bigger than I expected. Specially if you try to build some Power Strength beyond 130% -- as Transient Fortitude and Blind Rage builds make it take a hit even with Primed Continuity on.

I'd really try out to remove health decay off the normal builds and maybe add it to Shields of Shadow (but unaffected by duration, like 5/3/2 per rank) if that's what's worrying DE.

Nice job supporting DE and there terrible decisions, when they release the next broken thing make sure to throw your WHOLE wallet at the screen next time to make double sure they dont listen to us, why should they when you support them this way?

[NightmareT12]

Just now, F4talFr4me said:

Nice job supporting DE and there terrible decisions, when they release the next broken thing make sure to throw your WHOLE wallet at the screen next time to make double sure they dont listen to us, why should they when you support them this way?

How dare you? These kind of things can be changed (and I still hope will be changed) and I'm already saying they should take out the health decay out of the Shadows of the Death. And this isn't like they just increased all the costs in the game by 500% or some silly stuff that has absolute real impact on everyone.

Think twice before "judging" and saying stuff like this.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

Glad this post is still here. I do wish that the Devs would address this in some fashion. It just feels ridiculous this much feedback has been given and still nothing. I used to feel this game could have gone far. After Frost and Excal got reworked everything seemed to start slipping for me. 

[F4talFr4me]

4 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

How dare you? These kind of things can be changed (and I still hope will be changed) and I'm already saying they should take out the health decay out of the Shadows of the Death. And this isn't like they just increased all the costs in the game by 500% or some silly stuff that has absolute real impact on everyone.

Think twice before "judging" and saying stuff like this.

Erm you bought a frame in which they never fixed. never gave us a reply as to why they changed it this way. THEN they released titania in a disgusting state. you dident care and threw your money at them supporting the company that made these mistakes. you are 1 of the many to blame for the way they are acting.

You and anyone else who bought Nekros Prime in such a state supported these decisions with your wallet. thanks for ruining the game 1 purchase at a time.

[Airwolfen]

19 minutes ago, F4talFr4me said:

Erm you bought a frame in which they never fixed. never gave us a reply as to why they changed it this way. THEN they released titania in a disgusting state. you dident care and threw your money at them supporting the company that made these mistakes. you are 1 of the many to blame for the way they are acting.

You and anyone else who bought Nekros Prime in such a state supported these decisions with your wallet. thanks for ruining the game 1 purchase at a time.

Titania disgusting state? wut?

[F4talFr4me]

Just now, Airwolfen said:

Titania disgusting state? wut?

Have you seen how poor synergised and clunky her skills are? her skills work when they want. lantern is faulty as hell. her 4th is buggy AND broken. havent you seen the titania thread? especially the "glitchy pixie" one? she a squishy frame with glitchy skills.

[F4talFr4me]

3 hours ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

He's posted many days and collected a lot of feedback from players that wouldn't all fit in this thread. It would literally be a huge wall of text. But the consensus tends to be no shadow decay, better multipliers for consolation of removal of shadows, and recasting to heal shadows not casting more 100 energy. Especially since Nekros p seriously only has a 187 energy pool. As literally the only changes we received to shadows was 7 shadow cap, shield multiplier that's useless because health decay ignores shields (really thought that one out DE), health decay that gives us a shorter duration than before, and recasting to heal for full energy. 

This. all this.

Not to mention Desecrate energy cost is stupidly large along with a nerf so hard to the loot drop chance AND loot table, desecrate not having a second chance on desecrating the same corpse multiple times like we had before. major nerf to the only skill people used him for.. its worthless now.

[S0V3REiGN]

I was fighting level 110 Grineer with him in survival, he is pretty tanky with shield of shadows and health conversion. I still hate the health decay quite a lot though, DE needs to remove that nonesense.

[NightmareT12]

9 minutes ago, S0V3REiGN said:

I was fighting level 110 Grineer with him in survival, he is pretty tanky with shield of shadows and health conversion. I still hate the health decay quite a lot though, DE needs to remove that nonesense.

Yeah. The health decay is just a handicap that makes building for him quite more difficult. I like to push for PS, but with this it's hard to mantain even not far off 100% Duration :/

[Keltik0ne]

I'm enjoying the new found tankiness with mod interactions I'd never considered before. The shadows are problematic (as a lot of people have explained well in the thread) but overall I'm more than ok with the rework.

[(PSN)LegionOfZoom1410]

4 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

Have you seen how poor synergised and clunky her skills are? her skills work when they want. lantern is faulty as hell. her 4th is buggy AND broken. havent you seen the titania thread? especially the "glitchy pixie" one? she a squishy frame with glitchy skills.

If your gonna post here be respectful & post constructive feedback do not bash de or the devs & do not personal attack members who chose to buy prime access it's our money we can do what the heck we want with our money..

If you chose not to buy that's your right & your choice but don't influence those who are considering buying with your negativity mind your own business & let them choose for themselves it's there money not yours..

If people want to buy they have that right don't go attacking them because they chose to support a game they enjoy..

I really don't see the fuss with the nekros changes pc users have a very bad tendency to make stuff sound worse then they really are..

Yes health decay Sucks but I'm not really having that much of an issue since I'm always recasting & restoring there health anyway.  

Sometimes I wonder if people complain just to complain & complain because they refuse to adapt & get good by learning how to build a frame I got nekros shadows under 1.8 health decay a sec that's actually pretty good.. not great but pretty good 

And I'm using a hybrid build to use all powers while yes it drains fast it's not as bad as some make it out to be.. The lower the health decay per second the longer your shadows live i think if you use all 3 duration mods you can get it under 0.90 

Some of you may be using a build that no longer works but your inability to adapt & change & re mod him makes you & nekros look bad 

Yes he can still use some work & be buffed a tad bit in fact all powers for nekros can use some buffs but it doesn't have to be exstream or on ash or ember levels just strong enough all his powers are useful & while they still are they can still use a few tweaks like buff Descartes additional loot % up to 60% to no more then 75% if it makes DE feel better knowing it not 90% anymore at least they still can say they nerfed it a bit even thought u get twice the loot now then b4...

As for health decay I think it should be determined By Duration Like Prime Continuity But also be slowed with maxed Efficiency basically make health decay work like Ember World on Fire,Excalibur Extiled Blade,Valkery Hysteria..

So while it still works with duration & health decay Efficiency can help make em last longer this will allow you to then use other mods & not have to build nekros for one thing.

Look I'm sure DE is reading this thread but don't expect them to respond or acknowledge your feedback if your all gonna be rude about it..

Things are more likely to get done if people would handle situations better & get rid of that attitude maybe de does not respond or acknowledge things because of how you guys act..

These are people too they make mistakes but they do care about us & about there game. However they can only do so much at once & they have to plan things accordingly people always say this or that wasn't fixed in patch threads 

It doesn't mean they ain't ignoring it ever think it's possible they haven't found the proper coding to fix the problem yet so why name something worse if it's already broke so u can complain more? This stuff takes time & once they fix the issue they will add it in the patch 

No development team cares more or shows more passion about there game then DE the fact there always updating more then any company ever would & the fact it's a free to play game that always being updated is a testament to DE..

There the best & we must remember they are human too they eat sleep piss & poo like the rest of us they also have lives outside there job & there's only so much they can do in a day 

It doesn't mean they won't fix it or improve things it just means there busy atm 

Give em time they hear you but don't belittle them because of things that can & will be fixed in time just sit back & enjoy the game & when the time comes they will get around to tweaking & fixing things.. until then just have fun your life doesn't depend on this your not gonna die tomorrow if you don't have it now..

Relax & have fun & in time the fixes & changes will come crying about it won't make it come any faster these are people too & they have feelings too.. please be respectful give constructive feedback if you can't do that then don't post in this thread DE reads our feedback so please think b4 you speak & enjoy warframe thx you...

Edited August 25, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed inflammatory remarks and fixed formatting

[(PSN)salovel1991]

2 hours ago, (PS4)ChiefsFury1984 said:

If your gonna post here be respectful & post constructive feedback do not bash de or the devs & do not personal attack members who chose to buy prime access it's our money we can do what the heck we want with our money..

If you chose not to buy that's your right & your choice but don't influence those who are considering buying with your negativity mind your own business & let them choose for themselves it's there money not yours..

If people want to buy they have that right don't go attacking them because they chose to support a game they enjoy..

I really don't see the fuss with the nekros changes pc users have a very bad tendency to make stuff sound worse then they really are..

Yes health decay Sucks but I'm not really having that much of an issue since I'm always recasting & restoring there health anyway.  

Sometimes I wonder if people complain just to complain & complain because they refuse to adapt & get good by learning how to build a frame I got nekros shadows under 1.8 health decay a sec that's actually pretty good.. not great but pretty good 

And I'm using a hybrid build to use all powers while yes it drains fast it's not as bad as some make it out to be.. The lower the health decay per second the longer your shadows live i think if you use all 3 duration mods you can get it under 0.90 

Some of you may be using a build that no longer works but your inability to adapt & change & re mod him makes you & nekros look bad 

Yes he can still use some work & be buffed a tad bit in fact all powers for nekros can use some buffs but it doesn't have to be exstream or on ash or ember levels just strong enough all his powers are useful & while they still are they can still use a few tweaks like buff Descartes additional loot % up to 60% to no more then 75% if it makes DE feel better knowing it not 90% anymore at least they still can say they nerfed it a bit even thought u get twice the loot now then b4...

As for health decay I think it should be determined By Duration Like Prime Continuity But also be slowed with maxed Efficiency basically make health decay work like Ember World on Fire,Excalibur Extiled Blade,Valkery Hysteria..

So while it still works with duration & health decay Efficiency can help make em last longer this will allow you to then use other mods & not have to build nekros for one thing.

Look I'm sure DE is reading this thread but don't expect them to respond or acknowledge your feedback if your all gonna be rude about it..

Things are more likely to get done if people would handle situations better & get rid of that attitude maybe de does not respond or acknowledge things because of how you guys act..

These are people too they make mistakes but they do care about us & about there game. However they can only do so much at once & they have to plan things accordingly people always say this or that wasn't fixed in patch threads 

It doesn't mean they ain't ignoring it ever think it's possible they haven't found the proper coding to fix the problem yet so why name something worse if it's already broke so u can complain more? This stuff takes time & once they fix the issue they will add it in the patch 

No development team cares more or shows more passion about there game then DE the fact there always updating more then any company ever would & the fact it's a free to play game that always being updated is a testament to DE..

There the best & we must remember they are human too they eat sleep piss & poo like the rest of us they also have lives outside there job & there's only so much they can do in a day 

It doesn't mean they won't fix it or improve things it just means there busy atm 

Give em time they hear you but don't belittle them because of things that can & will be fixed in time just sit back & enjoy the game & when the time comes they will get around to tweaking & fixing things.. until then just have fun your life doesn't depend on this your not gonna die tomorrow if you don't have it now..

Relax & have fun & in time the fixes & changes will come crying about it won't make it come any faster these are people too & they have feelings too.. please be respectful give constructive feedback if you can't do that then don't post in this thread DE reads our feedback so please think b4 you speak & enjoy warframe thx you...

It's been months for some of these feedback threads with no replies. Look at Mag, Excalibur, and Volt. Feedback on shields that is as simple as switching back to primary when the duration of the shield ends or you put it back down. Although I hate picking up the shield it occurs mostly by accident when I want to reload or hack a console. Now they're doing this with Nekros. The reason people have gotten so upset is because they have went through more than one feedback thread with reasonable suggestions, that many people agree to. I wasn't on the forums at the time of Excal and Mag feedbacks but I looked and they were all but ignored. As for Nekros I really wouldn't suggest someone to buy it. I would like to believe that at one point they were in touch with their player base but not any longer. I mean we still have ridiculous shield mechanics for volt, health decay on shadows (A broken promise of a non-duration based ability), and half the cost of a radial blind on a slide attack for 1/5 of the effect. All this feedback has been stated time and time and time again. Still no acknowledgement, not even in the Devstreams. 

Edited August 25, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
updated edits in quoted comment to match the original post

[Gurpgork]

Well, I just finally got around to watching the Nekros Prime trailer, and I have to say, it would have been a lot more impressive if I didn't feel like they spent all the time that they should have spent on the rework making it...

[Crashen]

Now, I love Nekros dearly, but he is in need of a few QoL changes and synergy.

First, I would make Soul Punch refund energy greater than it's cost if it scores a killing blow. Its a slight thing, and not super critical, but it would be a nice thing.

More over however, I would add synergy between soul punch and terrify, possibly renaming it to Soul Wrench.

Soul Wrench, when casted on a terrified target would not ragdoll the enemy and shoot the soul out their back. No, it would wrench their soul from the body and force it to fight for Nekros, attacking it's former body until one or the other was dead.

The soul could taunt it's former body, or not if that would deem it OP. The power of this ability would be offset by the amount of set up and accuracy needed, since hitting a fleeing target can be a pain. The energy cobsumption would also be a limiting factor.

The soul would not attack any other enemy, but can be attacked by others. It may get an increasing damage bonus against it's Host to ensure it can do some damage. 

In ths way, both Terrify and Soul Punch get some interesting synergy while enhancing Nekros' theme.

It should also go without saying that bosses would be immune to having their souls torn from them.