Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

3 hours ago, Hixlysss said:

Shadows of the dead should get a total rework, I'd aim it to be closer to the trailer for a couple reasons. One, the trailer power looks freaking awesome, two, it doesn't require nekros to actually kill the target to get it to be his shadow minion, just be near the body so it turns into one of his zombies.

I'd also try and make his minions look even more different from the standard units, make em look more like zombies or fallout 4 ghouls or something, because honestly the color isn't enough for some or perhaps most people, specially at range, I mean I'm colorblind so I don't really see "black enemy with X color" over em, I see a enemy shape I shoot it, colors don't help much when they are across the map.

Then Nekros would be brokenly OP

[Matt89Connor]

8 hours ago, Shadow8600 said:

Did I miss something? I've been enjoying him tons since I got the prime. Already forma him 4 times, and really enjoy him. I don't usually run desecrate though, is this a desecrate thing?

with this new rework will finally combine desecrate and shadows, but the decay, the low number of undeads and the cost for heal or summon, obbligate us to use more slot for mantain alive the undeads, and they aren't strong( i test 7 heavy gunner at high level they don't kill anything for example), but they are simply a distraction for the enemies and for us because we have to check the life of the undeads every 15- max 30 seconds.... WE WANT A HELP WITH THAT POWER AND THE [DE] NOT LISTEN,,....so why give feedback for nothing?

Edited August 27, 2016 by Matt89Connor
fix grammatics

[achromos]

With merely 214% Power strength, and 155% Power Duration, 75% Power Efficiency, and 100% Power Range I am well able to play Nekros Prime (thank god for the energy increase) in any situation without worry.  My Despoiled Shield of Shadows build is able to Desecrate most anything in the same room as me (as long is it isnt the absolute large rooms) and I am having very little issue maintaining Desecrate or SotD as Desecrate is purely based on my health, and SotD is based on my Energy.  With Primed Flow I have a bit over 500 Energy and to cap it off I have Arcane Pulse and Arcane Energize and Zenurik as well as Equilibrium.

 

Is this overkill?  No.  I find I absolutely need it and Equilibrium,  Arcane Pulse and Arcane Energize help cover for where my build lacks in efficiency (yay helpful RNG).

 

Am I at all saying that this should be a requirement for anyone doing a Simple SoS+Despoil build?  No.  It shouldn't take that much but with all that setup--and finally getting to the point, my 4 Forma'd Nekros Prime build is able to thrive in most any situation as my shadows will be able to help protect me (natrally), my team, and whatever I am defending with the increased aggro and I will be able to heal them periodically and when their levels fall short?  I let them die and refresh with stronger ones thanks to the much smarter selection that we can have because SotD now summons better units for Nekros to use and the fact that you can heal them. 

 

I feel like Nekros doesn't need a rework as he definitely is in a good spot.  The original timer on SotD never bothered me and the fact that I can both refresh the new "timer" now actively AND teleport my summons to my location really makes me happy.  Maybe he needs a bit more efficiency but as I am someone who is running a 75% Efficiency build, maybe I am not one to talk?  I would like SoTD to reduce it's casting cost by 5% for every shadow it has already up, this way if you have 7 shadows up, that's a 35% Decrease in casting cost and a skill that costs 135 Energy (speaking from my build) goes down to 87 energy per cast, or 88 rounding up.  That small Decrease in Casting cost would help ease the pain of having to spend full energy just because you want to drag your summons from one room to another, or just heal them.

 

However, everyone here is entitled to their opinion as much as anyone else and If this were to change on Nekros I wouldn't really weep, I would be able to take off Primed Continuity and put on more Efficiency or something.  Though, remember how people felt about Saryn when she got her rework?  For the first few months people were constantly hating and railing against the changes, and then slowly people realized what they can do with her.  Maybe people need to give it some time and get used to how it is now instead of wishing for something that isn't how it is just yet?  It certainly doesn't break a lot of builds with End Tier Stuff, but... I do realize not everyone has all this stuff (which is why I suggested the increased efficiency mechanic)

 

Edit:  I think maybe another mechanic they could add is a "Buff" that tells you the lowest health percent of your summons,  that way you can focus on combat and when it gets down to 10% or something, you could heal and continue on with your game instead of having to stop and find one, even though that only takes a second too.

 

@NightmareT12 The Decay rate is actually beneficial to the corpus as it only effects their health, which leaves their shields (shields that regenerate) alone.  It's not half as bad as you think because it decays at a Percentage making the decay equal to the grineer or infested while leaving the corpus with their already hefty shield pool untouched until they break the shields first.

With Just 75% Efficiency and 155% Duration, I only have to use SoTD once every 30-40 seconds which seems like a long time once you are actively playing the game and not camping in one corner being a afk Desecrate Vending Machine.  Not saying you are, but being honest I don't think it's that bad to have to refresh a skill every so often like that.  Starting out?  Yea those things will melt until you slap on a Primed Continuity at the least.

Edited August 27, 2016 by achromos
Had another idea.

[Matt89Connor]

5 minutes ago, achromos said:

With merely 214% Power strength, and 155% Power Duration, 75% Power Efficiency, and 100% Power Range I am well able to play Nekros Prime (thank god for the energy increase) in any situation without worry.  My Despoiled Shield of Shadows build is able to Desecrate most anything in the same room as me (as long is it isnt the absolute large rooms) and I am having very little issue maintaining Desecrate or SotD as Desecrate is purely based on my health, and SotD is based on my Energy.  With Primed Flow I have a bit over 500 Energy and to cap it off I have Arcane Pulse and Arcane Energize and Zenurik as well as Equilibrium.

 

Is this overkill?  No.  I find I absolutely need it and Equilibrium,  Arcane Pulse and Arcane Energize help cover for where my build lacks in efficiency (yay helpful RNG).

 

Am I at all saying that this should be a requirement for anyone doing a Simple SoS+Despoil build?  No.  It shouldn't take that much but with all that setup--and finally getting to the point, my 4 Forma'd Nekros Prime build is able to thrive in most any situation as my shadows will be able to help protect me (natrally), my team, and whatever I am defending with the increased aggro and I will be able to heal them periodically and when their levels fall short?  I let them die and refresh with stronger ones thanks to the much smarter selection that we can have because SotD now summons better units for Nekros to use and the fact that you can heal them. 

 

I feel like Nekros doesn't need a rework as he definitely is in a good spot.  The original timer on SotD never bothered me and the fact that I can both refresh the new "timer" now actively AND teleport my summons to my location really makes me happy.  Maybe he needs a bit more efficiency but as I am someone who is running a 75% Efficiency build, maybe I am not one to talk?  I would like SoTD to reduce it's casting cost by 5% for every shadow it has already up, this way if you have 7 shadows up, that's a 35% Decrease in casting cost and a skill that costs 135 Energy (speaking from my build) goes down to 87 energy per cast, or 88 rounding up.  That small Decrease in Casting cost would help ease the pain of having to spend full energy just because you want to drag your summons from one room to another, or just heal them.

 

However, everyone here is entitled to their opinion as much as anyone else and If this were to change on Nekros I wouldn't really weep, I would be able to take off Primed Continuity and put on more Efficiency or something.  Though, remember how people felt about Saryn when she got her rework?  For the first few months people were constantly hating and railing against the changes, and then slowly people realized what they can do with her.  Maybe people need to give it some time and get used to how it is now instead of wishing for something that isn't how it is just yet?  It certainly doesn't break a lot of builds with End Tier Stuff, but... I do realize not everyone has all this stuff (which is why I suggested the increased efficiency mechanic)

 

Edit:  I think maybe another mechanic they could add is a "Buff" that tells you the lowest health percent of your summons,  that way you can focus on combat and when it gets down to 10% or something, you could heal and continue on with your game instead of having to stop and find one, even though that only takes a second too.

 

@NightmareT12 The Decay rate is actually beneficial to the corpus as it only effects their health, which leaves their shields (shields that regenerate) alone.  It's not half as bad as you think because it decays at a Percentage.

With Just 75% Efficiency and 155% Duration, I only have to use SoTD once every 30-40 seconds which seems like a long time once you are actively playing the game and not camping in one corner being a afk Desecrate Vending Machine.  Not saying you are, but being honest I don't think it's that bad to have to refresh a skill every so often like that.  Starting out?  Yea those things will melt until you slap on a Primed Continuity at the least.

1- with this statistich you die in high level ealsy,

2- you need to kill first 7 soldiers and with no undeads you don't have any defence.

3 with message like yours , if the DE have a little idea to change, after see this message they change mind....so thanks......but i think we all want a fix of this power, so pls don't write mess like this if you want a help with nekros

[Matt89Connor]

we have to understand , if you want a help with nekros, and i think all who like him want, we have don't write message like( it's fine now) or (this rework is good),...and we don't have to play nekros so the DE not see any change because there's no increase in players who use Nekros  and they maybe think the change is not great as they thought.

this is a revolution because we are client not simply gamer

Edited August 27, 2016 by Matt89Connor
edit

[NightmareT12]

5 minutes ago, achromos said:

-snip-

That's fair enough, but notice you're using a Nekros Prime, that you're using Corrupted Mods, Primed Mods, Arcanes, Augments, etc.

What I'm saying is that there's something to be done about the Healthdrain at its current state. By either, tweaking it further or replacing it with another mechanic that still will put drawbacks somewhere if you stray too far. The lowest Duration I have is 90%, the bigger is 150%. And in both cases I still think Health drain is too agressive so as to call it a day.

[achromos]

6 minutes ago, Matt89Connor said:

1- with this statistich you die in high level ealsy,

2- you need to kill first 7 soldiers and with no undeads you don't have any defence.

3 with message like yours , if the DE have a little idea to change, after see this message they change mind....so thanks......but i think we all want a fix of this power, so pls don't write mess like this if you want a help with nekros

 

1.) I can Face tank things with my Nekros if need be (hello 90% DR), My Summons also take aggro and Tank for me... die in high level?  Are you talking about Sorties?  If so, lol no.  I can do 40 minutes in MoT without a sweat... sooo... what are you talking about and if I was truly worried about dying in higher levels, with my build I'd slip in Health Conversion, 1,400 Armor.

2.) Killing 7 things, oh how hard will that be...  Oh wait, I have a Primary, Secondary, and Melee which only one of those has to be effective enough to kill.  I have a wide choice to pick from but ill go with the newest and greatest killing machines.  Tigris Prime, AkStilleto Prime, and Galatine Prime.  When, WHEN will i have issues killing more then 7 things?  Level 125? Level 147?  I can kill those fine enough and if I don't have summons I don't sit around like a Duck ready to get a bullet to the brain.

3.) I write my message, because I have the right to because this is a public forum.  If you wanted a Echo chamber, I'm sorry.  This is only a mess, if it messes with your agenda of doing... what exactly?  I do recognize that he needs a few Tweaks, but he is in a fine place in my opinion and I want you to try and convince me otherwise rather then telling me to basically "Go away".

Edited August 27, 2016 by achromos

[Matt89Connor]

1 minute ago, achromos said:

 

1.) I can Face tank things with my Nekros if need be (hello 90% DR), My Summons also take aggro and Tank for me... die in high level?  Are you talking about Sorties?  If so, lol no.  I can do 40 minutes in MoT without a sweat... sooo... what are you talking about.

2.) Killing 7 things, oh how hard will that be...  Oh wait, I have a Primary, Secondary, and Melee which only one of those has to be effective enough to kill.  I have a wide choice to pick from but ill go with the newest and greatest killing machines.  Tigris Prime, AkStilleto Prime, and Galatine Prime.  When, WHEN will i have issues killing more then 7 things?  Level 125? Level 147?  I can kill those fine enough and if I don't have summons I don't sit around like a Duck ready to get a bullet to the brain.

3.) I write my message, because I have the right to because this is a public forum.  If you wanted a Echo chamber, I'm sorry.  This is only a mess, if it messes with your agenda of doing... what exactly?  I do recognize that he needs a few Tweaks, but he is in a fine place in my opinion and I want you to try and convince me otherwise rather then telling me to basically "Go away".

i'm not tell you to go away mine friend, but simply nderstand what is the mission, our mission....not simply reduce the health decay but to demostrate to the DE then we are a group and we want to be listen

[achromos]

4 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

That's fair enough, but notice you're using a Nekros Prime, that you're using Corrupted Mods, Primed Mods, Arcanes, Augments, etc.

What I'm saying is that there's something to be done about the Healthdrain at its current state. By either, tweaking it further or replacing it with another mechanic that still will put drawbacks somewhere if you stray too far. The lowest Duration I have is 90%, the bigger is 150%. And in both cases I still think Health drain is too agressive so as to call it a day.

 

Fair enough, I wouldn't mind a bit of a reduction to the Decay mechanic, as I do feel like It's a balancing game and even with what I have my Nekros Prime geared to the teeth with I feel like it's barely just enough.  Like i put in my original post, I do recognize it.  I don't think removing the Decay mechanic would be a good move though, I rather suggest them lessen it either directly (lower the decay rate a bit, a tiny bit) or through what I suggested above, giving people a 5% Efficiency boost per Summon Available up to a cap of 35% when using SoTD.  It isn't much, it isn't getting rid of the micromanagement true, but they could also add a "Buff" to the UI, like i suggested above that would in essence keep track of the lowest health of your summons and display it as a Percentage so you can efficiency decide to heal without hunting them down, helping reduce the babysitting mechanic that I see could be a issue for other people.

Edited August 27, 2016 by achromos

[Matt89Connor]

10 minutes ago, achromos said:

 

Fair enough, I wouldn't mind a bit of a reduction to the Decay mechanic, as I do feel like It's a balancing game and even with what I have my Nekros Prime geared to the teeth with.  Like i put in my original post, I do recognize it.  I don't think removing the Decay mechanic would be a good move though, I rather suggest them lessen it either directly (lower the decay rate a bit, a tiny bit) or through what I suggested above, giving people a 5% Efficiency boost per Summon Available up to a cap of 35% when using SoTD.  It isn't much, it isn't getting rid of the micromanagement true, but they could also add a "Buff" to the UI, like i suggested above that would in essence keep track of the lowest health of your summons and display it as a Percentage so you can efficiency decide to heal without hunting them down, helping reduce the babysitting mechanic that I see could be a issue for other people.

by removing the decay become too strong and i agree...I also like your ideas.
But it would be enough just  giving us the opportunity to reduce the decay with Efficiency mods, or by reducing the energy cost  for heal the undeads,based on how many undeads report to life or simply heal.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Matt89Connor
edit

[NightmareT12]

Now I feel we're moving into an actual constructive terrain, instead of the frustration coming out. That's what I wanted :')

If you mod for Duration and Efficiency, then you're already being kept at bay. What I understand DE wants to avoid is the typical "let's toss all Strength mods first" build for this, like Ash does right now for Bladestorm.

That's why I think we need to keep at bay really negative builds, and allow barely negative builds to work: Like 90% efficiency or duration.

[Hixlysss]

1 hour ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

Then Nekros would be brokenly OP

Requireing nekros to have to kill in order for his power to be useful is broken. Him having to be near a corpse to spawn a minion, one of his seven minions. Seriously, how would that be OP compared to what...desecrate he has to be close to corpses to make loot. It would be a choice then. Loot or minions?

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

As indicated by the title this is my feedback on the cost for Nekros's Shadows of the Dead (SotD) ability, or his fourth ability. My main issue with it is that it is always 100 (70 with a maxed Streamline) every time you cast the ability. This includes replacing dead shadows, healing and teleporting. Now granted I don't mind paying the full cost when first summoning my undead army (it makes sense to me), however I do think it is weird that you pay the exact same amount just to heal them.

So instead of being a jerk and running through the streets screaming: "NEKROS'S SHADOWS ARE BROKEN! NEKROS'S SHADOWS ARE BROKEN!", I have a solution to the problem.

---Reinforcement Fix---

So lets say you have streamline on a maxed out Nekros so you summon 7 shadows for 70 energy. Now one of them dies. Instead of playing 70 to place him you pay 1/7th of the cost to bring back your fallen shadow (in this case it would be 10 energy). Basically you pay 1/7th of the cost for each shadow brought back.

You lose 5 shadows. You pay 5/7ths of the cost of your ability to bring them back.

This way you Nekros's SotD ability doesn't seem so expensive after summoning your first 7 shadows.

---Healing Cost---

With Nekros's rework we were told we wouldn't need duration. Sadly in order to keep things balanced DE decided to add a health decay system to SotD instead, which is based off of Duration, which for the most part I would be fine with if it wasn't so bloody expensive to heal your shadows.

Now rather then pull out a torch and pitchfork and attempt to burn DE to the ground for hurting my warframe (MY BABY!!!), I have another solution.

With the changes above those, should include healing your decaying shadows. However, when you have a full cast of shadows casting SotD again to heal should either cost 1/7th the cost of SotD (the amount it costs to summon a new shadow) or perhaps even 1/14th of the cost for SotD (half of the amount it cost to summon a new shadow).

---

I feel that if DE did this SotD would become more viable and those of us, who used to use his fourth back in the day when he could have 16 (because despite what everyone claims 16 literally was the max amount of shadows you could have and I know because I tried my best to get as many as possible), would feel like the rework did SotD some justice.

Thank you for listening to my feedback, I hope this could be done to improve Nekros and make him a good and usable warframe. :)

Edited August 28, 2016 by (XB1)RAG is NAROK

[BulletsforTeeth]

Aye, I made a thread a few days ago saying more or less the same thing. +1

[Aurea_Hiigara]

A calm and reasonable suggestion. Got my vote just for that.

[R34LM]

I had posted the same thing some time ago, but I had it split into 8ths. Healing would be 1/8 of the cost, adding a shadow would be 2/8, two shadows would be 3/8, and so on. This ability requires you to spam it to maintain, and having it be full ultimate cost each time is ridiculous.

Also, the level of your minions should adjust during a recast instead of letting them die off so you can spawn new ones of scaled level.

Edited August 27, 2016 by R34LM

[Noble_Cactus]

Very reasonable suggestions. I don't have much to add, really, other than that this thread deserves more attention.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Noble_Cactus

[Laidain]

Scott said he removed duration from shadows of the dead. Aren't channeled abilities still affected by duration and efficiency?When people build for the new shadows of the dead changes,wouldn't they still need to worry about duration?If the ability is only affected by efficiency it would be much better.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

6 hours ago, ObjectM said:

Why no answers from DE? Desecrate is broken with 54% Chance and put the health orb drop chance within these 54% is just crap. So he is just a health orb machine nothing more. And Shadows of the Dead? i dont have any problems with it but the most have a problem with it. Why no answers? why not a REAL Rework? i want the old Desecrate Drop Chance back and i wrote it allready "Because this is a toggle ability now is no excuse for it" 26 Pages should show you NEKROS IS BROKEN NOW.

Yes 26 pages and it hasn't even been 3 weeks. 

[(PSN)salovel1991]

If only DE would just listen. But they aren't going to. Evidence is in The Silver Grove Hotfix 5. Titania has had a few tweaks based on feedback. While we can't get reduced energy costs, reduced/no health drain, or be rid of an enemy cap on a CC ability... 

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

1 hour ago, Pratigious said:

Scott said he removed duration from shadows of the dead. Aren't channeled abilities still affected by duration and efficiency?When people build for the new shadows of the dead changes,wouldn't they still need to worry about duration?If the ability is only affected by efficiency it would be much better.

 

[DaMasque]

16 hours ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

Napalms, scorches, hyekka masters, nullifiers occassionally, and Vauban Bastille are all glitchy af now..

Napalms and Scorches, I've yet to deal with. Nullifiers are a mess... I don't need 4 to spawn and waste time waiting on them to die. And I never really had any problems with Vauban, its actually kinda rare to see him in my games.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

1 minute ago, DaMasque said:

Napalms and Scorches, I've yet to deal with. Nullifiers are a mess... I don't need 4 to spawn and waste time waiting on them to die. And I never really had any problems with Vauban, its actually kinda rare to see him in my games.

Trust me it sucks a lot. I run Hieracon with my friend and he generally uses a vauban. 

[(PSN)YouCani2]

What im about to suggests isn't anything about the ability itself.

The shadows always block my camera view.  Is there anyway to blur out the shadow where your hud is facing, like Mirage's first ability?

Second, instead of how many shadows, Id really like a counter, or something of that sort.  Im constantly having to hover over a shadow to see how much life is left.

Anybody else have these issues?

 

These tweaks would really improve the playability of Nekros, atleast for me.

Edited August 28, 2016 by (PS4)YouCani2

[-BM-Mitz]

I think we need a hp decay counter somewhere on the UI. It'll let us know how much hp did our shadows lose since the last recast. It'll make sustaining easier.