Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[R34LM]

2 minutes ago, AlphaWolf003 said:

........................................................................................................................................

I hope you're joking if that excuses this nerf lol.

It does happen. I've had it happen to me, plus they count for Shield of Shadows.

 

The big issues with Nekros is that he requires specific mods to really function. Despoil and Equilibrium are basically required if you want to sustain him, considering his Terrify costs 75 energy at base for a 2 ability and you will be using 100 energy each time you use SoTD, which adds up easily.

I think people would be fine with the decay if the cost for maintaining the shadows was heavily reduced. It should cost a small fraction of the base cost to only heal, since you aren't summoning any shadows. You pay another piece of base cost for every shadow you summon. Basically, 1/8 for a heal, 2/8 for one summon, 3/8 for two summons., going all the way up to 8/8 when you summon all seven shadows. SoTD is an energy hungry ability, and the fact that we have to keep using it highlights both the health decay that we have to manage with it and the inefficiency of it all unless you use specific builds. 

[aerosoul1337]

It is extremely confusing in a infested mission.

There are ancients everywhere, enemies or shadows, the colors are mostly overwritten by ancients' aura.

 

[Celas_]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

So if they have health decay aka duration they need to be immune to damage. 

Honestly I don't consider any changes positive. Desecrate as a toggle removed ability to choose when you need to intensify it. You know, when you finally found that rare enemy and cut into 4 pieces. Shadows having priority removes my ability to summon certain useful utility weak units. 

Today I've done final test. Shadows are now useless, loot from desecrate is nothing. There's one niche left. I've tried solo survival with fully decked out desecrate focused build.

I had to activate capsules. That does it. Nekros goes on a shelf and hydroid replaces him in my farming loadouts. 

Yep Hydroid is now the Looterking, like i said Nekros is now a Health Orb Machine. i think Desecrate works so now 50% Health Orbs 4% Loot 46% NOTHING. I can say to all of you guys who want to loot dont take Nekros anymore when you want to loot, take 1 Hydroid and 3 Ivara's or 1 Atlas with you. Let us hope that never come a Rework of Hydroid because they will nerf him to death too.

[Kai]

44 minutes ago, AlphaWolf003 said:

 

36 minutes ago, R34LM said:

It does happen. I've had it happen to me, plus they count for Shield of Shadows.

 

The big issues with Nekros is that he requires specific mods to really function. Despoil and Equilibrium are basically required if you want to sustain him, considering his Terrify costs 75 energy at base for a 2 ability and you will be using 100 energy each time you use SoTD, which adds up easily.

I think people would be fine with the decay if the cost for maintaining the shadows was heavily reduced. It should cost a small fraction of the base cost to only heal, since you aren't summoning any shadows. You pay another piece of base cost for every shadow you summon. Basically, 1/8 for a heal, 2/8 for one summon, 3/8 for two summons., going all the way up to 8/8 when you summon all seven shadows. SoTD is an energy hungry ability, and the fact that we have to keep using it highlights both the health decay that we have to manage with it and the inefficiency of it all unless you use specific builds. 

His only required mod for solo build is pretty much Equilibrium since they solve the Energy problem. I also run very efficient Nekros Build, basically having - 

Corrosive Aura, Cunning Drift, Health Conversion, Stretch, Shield of Shadows, Equilibrium, Blind Rage, Streamline, Despoil and Vitality. It works like a charm.

[Tizodd]

Shadows of the Dead would be much better if:

• Duration of any type is removed...that includes health drain.
• Soul Punch can be used on shadows to kill the ones you no longer want to keep (adds synergy and more player control).
• Shadow cap is increased to 10; or the damage multiplier is raised by ~1% (many of us had 20 shadows before the rework.  7 isn't even half of that).
• SotD energy cost is based on how many new shadows you spawn (i.e.: healing current shadows should use less energy than spawning new shadows).

These changes would make Nekros' kit pretty much perfect imo.

If nothing else though, the base health drain needs to be dropped by at least 1%.  It would also be nice if shadows didn't stray so much.  They need some type of soft tether to the player.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

So here I go, AGAIN. You've updated the game again and I come back to talk about things you haven't fixed AGAIN. Bastille still effects my shadows on occasion and so does Vortex. My Napalms STILL damage me. You haven't taken any suggestions on feedback whatsoever. Shadows are useless in Corpus missions above level 20+ when Scrambus, Nullifiers, and Bursa all can so much as walk past a shadow while shutting down the ability. Against Infested it's okayish. Although auras get in the way and make it hard to determine what I'm doing. Also I've found that I'll cast to heal and a shadow will die anyway as soon as I cast forcing to go through another full energy full casting animation. Health Decay is also ridiculous especially on grineer who scale ridiculously against my shadows. DE just remove health decay and high energy costs on recasts. I don't even care about desecrate. Why has it been so long with no fixes and no responses? Why do I have to resort to begging for a fix for something you said that was going to be implemented? I've read so many complaints.. Just listen and tweak him already, please? I thought reworks were supposed to help frames get better. Now he's completely imbalanced for gameplay. 

[Celas_]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

I don't even care about desecrate

But i care about that because its a HUGE NERF, SotD is ok for me i can survive hours with them. MAKE NEKROS GREAT AGAIN!!!

[IRVoidGuru]

9 hours ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

Yeah, I had similar ideas for a synergy between Soul Punch and SotD.

I'd like to see this for Nekros, plus at least having Eximus give normal copies too, if not Eximus Shadows.

your idea was noted and added. tyvm for your feedback. due to your idea we had to descuss and we added a possibility of one eximus Unit per Shadows of the Dead cast 

Edited September 1, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

So if they have health decay aka duration they need to be immune to damage. 

Honestly I don't consider any changes positive. Desecrate as a toggle removed ability to choose when you need to intensify it. You know, when you finally found that rare enemy and cut into 4 pieces. Shadows having priority removes my ability to summon certain useful utility weak units. 

Today I've done final test. Shadows are now useless, loot from desecrate is nothing. There's one niche left. I've tried solo survival with fully decked out desecrate focused build.

I had to activate capsules. That does it. Nekros goes on a shelf and hydroid replaces him in my farming loadouts. 

I could deal with with the health decay if they were immune to damage inflicted outside of that. It would at least allow me to actually play the game and not have to babysit as much but I do agree that any changes still would leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I've also been noticing who I summon is weird in general. I was able to summon a nullifier once and other times I've killed them I haven't unless it was because they were an eximus one and the whole not being able to summon an eximus enemy is a problem in itself. I hope there is a response from DE on this soon because I think it would be a real shame not to do something so close to the changes made already to move onto something else and have to wait until forever before nekros becomes enjoyable to play again. 

[IRVoidGuru]

these are some possible changes i think could be nice for power Synergy between 2 of Nekros's skills. any feedback or farther ideas would be awesome , ty for your time in reading it and have a good day !

[IRVoidGuru]

Id like to say that i like all of the new changes other then the loss of 11 of my 18 shadows. but i understand why the network issues possible were not good in any way.

Maybe i could suggest that the number be higher then 7 when your in solo mode?

I feel like my new army of 7 can not do any where near the work that my 18 shadows used to , to slightly compensate could we get ( maybe) a higher damage multiplier to make it feel more like my old strong army of over double this ones numbers
 
I see some posts that say they don't like the HP loss over time but with 155 duration im fine with their HP loss over time. i had to remove transient fortitude but due to energy orb conversion i didn't lose much when putting it in transient's place. my shadows stay alive as much as i want them too and i let them die when i want them to re spawn at a higher lvl.
if any change maybe 2.5 base instead of 3 decay per sec?

I have seen a couple posts so far that players are unhappy with the drop chance change on desecrate. i have had no problems with this but i also don't need resources or mods , i am a few mod rank ups away from having every mod in the codex maxed. i like the HP orb drops, if anything maybe a Very Small increase to energy orb drops. but over all even as is i like it and don't think it needs to be changed.

as a side note i think this is another addition to the good reworks done by DE recently.

iv enjoyed Excals rework.

Saryn's Rework was amazing and doesn't get the credit it deserves from every player, imo it brought life to me playing this frame.

Mesa's rework did her Justice and as a Main Mesa User i have to ask , now that you have done soooo Well , plz leave her alone after you remove that broken Dual Toxocyst Glitch.

Mags rework made me stop Hating her as a Shield polarize Spam machine, i dont use her but i still like it.

and Volts rework was Awesome, i dont like the energy loss with picking up shields per sec and with distance. kinda Burns the Candle at both ends imo

and Now Nekros, with Never Dying Shadows if Built and Played right, re-summoning shadows to your side if you get far from them or they from you. . cant wait to see what you do with limbo

Edited September 2, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[NightmareT12]

I actually managed to play with 2.48 duration using Narrow Minded and something else (I think it was Transient Fortitude?) and I found it to be at such a better place. And then with 1.96 it was just so good -- the shadows still died around the 45 second mark (Note: It was a sortie!), but damn it makes a world of difference for Energy economy.

I also suggested to Rebecca that Nekros Prime should use 126.857 base energy -- that's 190.2855 at Rank 30, 507 with Flow maxed out and (here comes the gimmick) 666 with a Primed Flow maxed out. Because reasons, energy economy and if Volt Prime is allowed to have 300 base energy and 800 with Primed Flow I don't see why Nekros Prime can't use it.

Edited September 2, 2016 by NightmareT12

[Celas_]

8 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

I have seen a couple posts so far that players are unhappy with the drop chance change on desecrate. i have had no problems with this but i also don't need resources or mods , i am a few mod rank ups away from having every mod in the codex maxed. i like the HP orb drops, if anything maybe a Very Small increase to energy orb drops. but over all even as is i like it and don't think it needs to be changed.

This is a Joke right? You like the broken Desecrate? DE should give us the decision to take the toggle Desecrate with 54% for people like you and the normal Desecrate with 90% for people like me.

Nekros is not THE LOOTERKING anymore, he was just nerfed to Tankros but we have enough tanks. They changed my playstyle to something i dont like, why we dont have decision about that? WE ARE THE COMMUNITY, DE lied to us with "meh meh meh no Duration anymore" and they say nothing to nerf desecrate. Toggle the ability is no reason to decrease the Chance to 54% and there a is no reason to take him for any farm mission. Weeks ago they say "you get less grind" yes sure... this is the right way for "less grind" take his best ability nerf it down. The most important thing why i could rage everytime, NO ANSWERS FROM DE, what we should do? create 50 - 100 threads with "Nekros broken give us the old back" or what i need to pay to get the old desecrate chance back? 10$? 50$? 100$? 1000$? im so unhappy with these changes, you will be unhappy too if your main got so hard nerfed that you dont want play him anymore. TY i play now with Hydroid but im sure he get a real Rework(NERF) too.

Edited September 2, 2016 by ObjectM

[Soju.]

On September 1, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Harowing said:

Indeed it was a joke. But look at it this way, Quality over Quantity. I'm enjoying Nekros right now, he can solo very well.

If you read my previous posts, what is strong is to be determined by each person. Not everyone considers a 7 bombard Shadows composition "strong". And he can already solo well before rework. This already has been discussed repeatedly.

On September 1, 2016 at 9:42 AM, R34LM said:

It does happen. I've had it happen to me, plus they count for Shield of Shadows.

 

The big issues with Nekros is that he requires specific mods to really function. Despoil and Equilibrium are basically required if you want to sustain him, considering his Terrify costs 75 energy at base for a 2 ability and you will be using 100 energy each time you use SoTD, which adds up easily.

I think people would be fine with the decay if the cost for maintaining the shadows was heavily reduced. It should cost a small fraction of the base cost to only heal, since you aren't summoning any shadows. You pay another piece of base cost for every shadow you summon. Basically, 1/8 for a heal, 2/8 for one summon, 3/8 for two summons., going all the way up to 8/8 when you summon all seven shadows. SoTD is an energy hungry ability, and the fact that we have to keep using it highlights both the health decay that we have to manage with it and the inefficiency of it all unless you use specific builds. 

Not for a person like me who builds exclusively and specifically for SotD, which screwed me over and everyone else who does the same as me and basically force me into those kinds of builds otherwise Nekros won't be viable. If they are just going to remove duration to introduce another S#&$tier kind of duration, then I'd rather have the old duration system back.

[IRVoidGuru]

10 hours ago, ObjectM said:

This is a Joke right? You like the broken Desecrate? DE should give us the decision to take the toggle Desecrate with 54% for people like you and the normal Desecrate with 90% for people like me.

Nekros is not THE LOOTERKING anymore, he was just nerfed to Tankros but we have enough tanks. They changed my playstyle to something i dont like, why we dont have decision about that? WE ARE THE COMMUNITY, DE lied to us with "meh meh meh no Duration anymore" and they say nothing to nerf desecrate. Toggle the ability is no reason to decrease the Chance to 54% and there a is no reason to take him for any farm mission. Weeks ago they say "you get less grind" yes sure... this is the right way for "less grind" take his best ability nerf it down. The most important thing why i could rage everytime, NO ANSWERS FROM DE, what we should do? create 50 - 100 threads with "Nekros broken give us the old back" or what i need to pay to get the old desecrate chance back? 10$? 50$? 100$? 1000$? im so unhappy with these changes, you will be unhappy too if your main got so hard nerfed that you dont want play him anymore. TY i play now with Hydroid but im sure he get a real Rework(NERF) too.

i hate to say but if the skill desecrate is why he was your main then i think there are some deeper issues to look over. i don't like loot manipulation in the first place it makes things far easier to gain in this game then any other, looter king or not i play him as my third favorite frame for his shadows. an army under my control , enemies who Fear me and the HP and energy i give to me and my friends using energize and Pulse arcane in tandem with the new desecrate. i have a well rounded build that helps me and my team, as long as loot manipulation is on a frame there will be those like you who only care about that one aspect.

Edited September 2, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[radastir]

My team mates also complain about my Nekros Prime's Shadows, a possible solution for this issue could be either a change in the transparency of the shadows (make them more ghost like) and/or an additional weak glow effect (maybe only the edges of the shadow models).

[Celas_]

1 hour ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

i hate to say but if the skill desecrate is why he was your main then i think there are some deeper issues to look over. i don't like loot manipulation in the first place it makes things far easier to gain in this game then any other, looter king or not i play him as my third favorite frame for his shadows. an army under my control , enemies who Fear me and the HP and energy i give to me and my friends using energize and Pulse arcane in tandem with the new desecrate. i have a well rounded build that helps me and my team, as long as loot manipulation is on a frame there will be those like you who only care about that one aspect.

Not really Nekros is and was a support frame not a Tank frame, so i care about that. And yes with loot skills is easier to get ressources and? There are guys who started as new player and need some specific ressources so why he cant have it easier? DE said they want make the game less grind, so what is when Hydroid Prime come out want they nerf him with his augment too? Nekros should stay as support frame not as tank, we have enough tanks. And you should not look only on yourself, we have enough new player and we got enough crazy droprates.

[ariivanasan]

as title says: let us choose between prechange and nowadays. in 1 case its ok with desecrate speed, but in second case we need desecrate like old time 99 in 1 sec

[GraveDuality]

no, never happening. things have changed. get over it

 

[ariivanasan]

changed all and allways.. so next change maybe like i sayd

[xXDeadsinxX]

This isn't going to happen. 

[DSpite]

2 minutes ago, ariivanasan said:

changed all and allways.. so next change maybe like i sayd

You did not explain why you want it back, so the general assumption will be "more loot" and since that is one reason for the change, why do you think you will get it back?

 

[Brynslustafir]

In some cases, I have wished for DE to revert changes that have been made to certain frames. But not this time. 

Nekros' old playstyle was lame and spammy. Hit 4 and for the next 30 seconds or so just mash 3. It wasn't in line with the philosophy DE's been following with recent frame reworks. In general, DE seems to be removing or altering abilities that discourage serious player involvement. Frost got changed because too many people said they could press 3 and then go make a sandwich. Mesa got changed because her ult required nearly no user input. Saryn got changed because she was absolutely the queen of "Press 4 to win". Excal got changed because he was in a similar place to Saryn. Even Ember and Volt, 2 frames who did not embody the "Press 4 to win" playstyle still received changes to make them more dynamic and encourage people to play the game the way DE intended. 

Now Nekros has received the same treatment, and he's better off for it. I am confident that DE will not make the changes that you are requesting. Nekros was changed to make him fit in and feel better to play. Gameplay quality should be valued above all else. Reverting these changes would simply be a poor choice. 

[Celas_]

22 minutes ago, NocturnalVahey said:

no, never happening. things have changed. get over it

 

say this again when your main frame was nerfed.

[ariivanasan]

11 minutes ago, Plasmaface said:

In some cases, I have wished for DE to revert changes that have been made to certain frames. But not this time. 

Nekros' old playstyle was lame and spammy. Hit 4 and for the next 30 seconds or so just mash 3. It wasn't in line with the philosophy DE's been following with recent frame reworks. In general, DE seems to be removing or altering abilities that discourage serious player involvement. Frost got changed because too many people said they could press 3 and then go make a sandwich. Mesa got changed because her ult required nearly no user input. Saryn got changed because she was absolutely the queen of "Press 4 to win". Excal got changed because he was in a similar place to Saryn. Even Ember and Volt, 2 frames who did not embody the "Press 4 to win" playstyle still received changes to make them more dynamic and encourage people to play the game the way DE intended. 

Now Nekros has received the same treatment, and he's better off for it. I am confident that DE will not make the changes that you are requesting. Nekros was changed to make him fit in and feel better to play. Gameplay quality should be valued above all else. Reverting these changes would simply be a poor choice. 

ok. but de can just add more speed for this ability. now its very low