No Cooperation in Co Op Missions

[Metalman007]

Everytime I do a "Fissure" there is some one who finishes before anyone else and runs to extract and trips the timer.  More often than no I have lost my relic and lose my chance at a part.  This is infuriating.  I have a small clan and usually do public runs.  This has never been a problem before the recent changes i.e. Void 2.0   The current system allows selfish or uninformed players to seriously degrade the enjoyment of the game.  My first suggestion is of course to return to the original and correct system of Void exploration sharing keys and possibly carrying relics for added chance at particular parts.  Otherwise allow a collective reactant pickup so that everyone's relic is opened at once from a group effort of reactant collection.  As it stands now there is a huge possibility for malicious players to ruin this game quickly by prematurely ending mission by gathering reactant and tripping the extraction timers.

This isn't supposed to be a speed competition, leave that for the conclave.

Warframe is no longer fun to play because this system has given impatient players control over the squad.  Please fix.

[Ninja22678]

I've played probably ~25 public fissure missions today, just running into a fissure mission with my matchmaking set to public, and it has never happened to me. It has happened to other players but if they speak out, I and the rest of the squad usually help them find a few and move out of extraction so the timer doesn't go down. In addition you don't lose a relic liek you say. Just tell them they're missing out on one extra roll at a better item. 

And you can't really have relics and the old void systems, people will start complaining about the grind becoming worse. The old void system just wasn't really working with all the new primes coming out in my opinion, and it makes the prime vault items more open to newer players so they can also experience the content instead of it being completely out of their reach. It took me a month and a half to get my first vaulted prime item, and it took me a play time of around 5+ hours everyday, which is more than a normal player I'd think. If the old void system continued, we'd end up with every new prime coming out being a 3% drop rate from T3/4 Rotation C or something, which honestly is just plain annoying and not a viable option to get the items for casual players.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Ninja22678

[SolarDwagon]

Reactant drops for all players. If you aren't picking up enough reactant, then you're not sticking with other players.
Now, in some game modes (capture, for instance), this can be their fault not yours if you're the person who chases down the target.

Nevertheless, in every group I've played where one player called out in chat that they were not complete, the entire group has stopped and waited. Have you tried this?

[Gelkor]

I'm pretty sure you only lose the relic if you open it, if you don't collect enough reactant to open it then you keep the relic.

[taiiat]

as aforementioned, your Relic is ONLY consumed if you get a reward roll from it.

[Icymountain]

Do you actually tell your squad that you don't have enough reactant?

[Metalman007]

5 minutes ago, Icymountain said:

Do you actually tell your squad that you don't have enough reactant?

yes.  It's happened a couple of times where they extract before I'm done even though I called it.  Other  wise, what's the point of this post?  The Principle I'm trying to convey is this system makes it possible for someone to ruin other players experience in a significant way.

 

I should add that I'm not dilly dallying either, in each case it was a capture mission and I was a Loki and had made the capture.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Metalman007
add info

[ograzzt]

1 minute ago, Metalman007 said:

yes.  It's happened a couple of times where they extract before I'm done even though I called it.  Other  wise, what's the point of this post?  The Principle I'm trying to convey is this system makes it possible for someone to ruin other players experience in a significant way.

Actually because of finishing earlier they lost more than you did. Their relics were consumed, but they only had 3 reward choises instead of 4. You didn't lose anything at all.

So system actually wants other players to wait for all players collecting reactants, it's just players don't understand that by some reason.

[Tymerc]

I wait for people to get their relic opened (while helping them fight obviously), but honestly I really don't blame anyone for not caring simply because we're forced to take one of four potential items instead of everyone getting all four potential items. 

[PickleMonster21]

46 minutes ago, Metalman007 said:

Warframe is no longer fun to play because this system has given impatient players control over the squad.  Please fix.

The key is communication. Once you finish the Objective, say something like "6/10" or "4/10" or "Done". Even "If you're not done, speak up now" works. Communication is a big factor in this. I've run so many of these, looking for Fragor and Vauban Prime parts and I can't say I've experienced a problem that a little communication couldn't fix. And if someone was ever at the Extraction point, I'd tell them "I'm/This player's not done. Give us a sec".

[Metalman007]

1 minute ago, ograzzt said:

Actually because of finishing earlier they lost more than you did. Their relics were consumed, but they only had 3 reward choises instead of 4. You didn't lose anything at all.

So system actually wants other players to wait for all players collecting reactants, it's just players don't understand that by some reason.

I do understand that however the fact that they are losing out is irrelevant.  The point is that this mechanic allows for malicious behavior.

[Metalman007]

3 minutes ago, ograzzt said:

Actually because of finishing earlier they lost more than you did. Their relics were consumed, but they only had 3 reward choises instead of 4. You didn't lose anything at all.

So system actually wants other players to wait for all players collecting reactants, it's just players don't understand that by some reason.

I disagree.  I accepted the mission to win a prime part.  As a direct result of their behavior they got one and I didn't.

[Ninja22678]

2 minutes ago, Metalman007 said:

I do understand that however the fact that they are losing out is irrelevant.  The point is that this mechanic allows for malicious behavior.

Then how do you propose to fix this problem other then bringing back the old void, as I've already said that started to fall apart? The system's repercussions for said "malicious behavior" is that they lose out. 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Ninja22678

[ograzzt]

2 minutes ago, Metalman007 said:

I do understand that however the fact that they are losing out is irrelevant.  The point is that this mechanic allows for malicious behavior.

Just like in any other game mode - if you are slow and too far from extraction point at the end of the mission you won't get any reward. You may ask people to wait, but that's their choice to do it or not. This is problem with people, not with the system.

[Metalman007]

Just now, Ninja22678 said:

Then how do you propose to fix this problem other then bringing back the old void, as I've said it started to fall apart? The system's repercussions for said "malicious behavior" is that they lose out. 

I already proposed making reactant collection a group effort instead of an individual one.  If someone runs ahead and captures the target to assure the success of the mission while the other race to open their relics and race to extract, it's just not fair.  Sure, mature players would co operate, while others might not.  Reactant collection into a pool that opens everyones relics is not unreasonable.

[Vol4ica_]

3 minutes ago, ograzzt said:

Actually because of finishing earlier they lost more than you did. Their relics were consumed, but they only had 3 reward choises instead of 4. You didn't lose anything at all.

So system actually wants other players to wait for all players collecting reactants, it's just players don't understand that by some reason.

I met some people like that just when Baro has arrived. I got weak internet connection and because of that I joined squad when there were 40\100 exterminated already. Because of rushy Ember (delayed fissure spawning + too fast kill = not enough void mobs) I wasn't able to pick 10 reactants (9\10 ugh:\\\). Two other players were helping me to find that missing reactant, but Ember didn't. "Baro is leaving soon and I'm rushing ducat farming". Didn't matter for him that I had top tier relic..

[Ninja22678]

5 minutes ago, Metalman007 said:

I already proposed making reactant collection a group effort instead of an individual one.  If someone runs ahead and captures the target to assure the success of the mission while the other race to open their relics and race to extract, it's just not fair.  Sure, mature players would co operate, while others might not.  Reactant collection into a pool that opens everyones relics is not unreasonable.

If it is kept at the amount of 10, doing fissure missions no longer becomes much different then a regular mission. Everyone will just do the mission and maybe take some thirty seconds to pick up a few and up to the group total real quick, and it becomes boring again. If you increase the amount of reactant needed, some missions won't even provide you with enough reactant, and others will take a lot of time, making it even grindier. As far as I see it, this wouldn't really work.

 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Ninja22678

[RavenCorella]

 It's good as it is, I'm not sure who was in your team but I never had this issue. I've only been unable to collect enough 1/20 runs, and even then the squad waited as much as it took for me to collect some. Hit that ignore button and find new squad members, DE can't do anything about the players.

[Grumpy]

Yes, this is very, very, very frustrating.  A lot of pugs either people just run off all over the map,  or you get a trigger happy mirage or ember that kills everything before it can even turn.  I've completed missions in which no one got any rewards, and they either cuss about it, or act like it doesn't bother them.  And I won't mention the failed MD missions because people run off far from the spot to get their own reactants, which messes up the spawn, and the mission fails because the pod is destroyed.  I even had games that came close, and you would think they caught on, only to loose the 3rd pod to people running off again.  In some of the MD missions a fully modded ember would again kill everything before it turns.  Or in a capture you get the volt that takes off, get his reactants, and sits at the end of the mission waiting on everyone else.  I cringe when I do exterminate missions with low numbers and a ember or mirage is in my group, I know 9 times out of 10 I will probably end up with nothing, as well as the group.   And I won't even go into the leechers and afker's that don't do anything at all.  There are no consequences or repercussions for negative behavior, it's a lazy gamers dream.  I can solo all of it, and I don't need anything but forma, but having company is nice sometimes, especially watching how people play their class.  But it seems to be about rush, rush, rush, me, me, me, just a total blue falcon move on the group.  And I know people that have left the game because of this, especially newer players that decide this isn't the environment they want to be a part of.  And I don't know what the solution is, more locked doors and physical controls in the environment ?  People are not going to change, but if you take away their ability to grieve and leech off of groups, they will either adjust or leave.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Grumpy
typo

[Grumpy]

34 minutes ago, ograzzt said:

Just like in any other game mode - if you are slow and too far from extraction point at the end of the mission you won't get any reward. You may ask people to wait, but that's their choice to do it or not. This is problem with people, not with the system.

Thank you !!!!  This this probably the biggest issue with the game, including nerfs, OP complaints, etc.  The system isn't perfect, but it works.  And a lot of the issues come from the people, not the system.  We are all thrown in the sand box, and the other kids are throwing sand with no accountable for their actions, so of coarse they're going to continue to throw sand.

[Variatas]

1 hour ago, SolarDwagon said:

Reactant drops for all players. If you aren't picking up enough reactant, then you're not sticking with other players.
Now, in some game modes (capture, for instance), this can be their fault not yours if you're the person who chases down the target.

Nevertheless, in every group I've played where one player called out in chat that they were not complete, the entire group has stopped and waited. Have you tried this?

Also possible: the other players aren't sticking together either, running off in different directions chasing down the enemy since they spawn further and further away, pulling everyone out of affinity range and scattering reactant (and other loot) all over the map.

No, this hasn't happened to me a dozen times today, why do you ask?

To be clear, these at least ended with everyone cracking their relics because people spoke up that they were missing some, but it didn't need to happen at all.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Variatas

[Xzorn]

I'm that guy who finishes super quick and waits at the exit. Not even trying to be a jerk about it. I play with efficiency as a key priority to my game play.

I don't like being forced to group for any content under lvl 200. I don't like waiting or doing 90% of the team damage in a trivial mission that I spam over and over. It's no more fun for me than it is for you. There's no reason for team work in something so trivial. You don't even need your frame abilities let alone synergy or team work.

It's boring and tedious no matter how you play it. Believe me, I want very much to go back to my 2 hour solo sessions.

Most the time I can't even bring myself to bother doing the new Void. it feels more like a grind than the old Void ever did.

 

#BringBacktheVoid

[LuckyCharm]

So really, why not make a bigger reactant needed cap based on how many players are in party, then make the reactant pickups count for all players. That way you all extract same time and all get the stuff. 

[Brendael]

31 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I'm that guy who finishes super quick and waits at the exit. Not even trying to be a jerk about it. I play with efficiency as a key priority to my game play.

I don't like being forced to group for any content under lvl 200. I don't like waiting or doing 90% of the team damage in a trivial mission that I spam over and over. It's no more fun for me than it is for you. There's no reason for team work in something so trivial. You don't even need your frame abilities let alone synergy or team work.

It's boring and tedious no matter how you play it. Believe me, I want very much to go back to my 2 hour solo sessions.

Most the time I can't even bring myself to bother doing the new Void. it feels more like a grind than the old Void ever did.

 

#BringBacktheVoid

Don't be this guy, folks.

[DSpite]

3 hours ago, Metalman007 said:

I do understand that however the fact that they are losing out is irrelevant.  The point is that this mechanic allows for malicious behavior.

Allowing "shared Reactant" is worse. It allow players to AFK, and automatically get a Reward at mission end.

You did not lose anything other then "5 minutes of your time" in a Capture mission. If others have 10 Reactant, it means there is at least 10 of them along the way, and all you would have to do is run backwards, even if for some reason (ie you raced ahead for a Capture) you did not manage to pick them up.

Seems to me you are the one in that mission that "skipped the teamwork" as you simply raced to the target - which you do NOT have to do - triggering the exit. If you had simply slowed down a SMALL amount, this would not have happened.