Power Creep is bad. Period.

[Gireen_AEN]

Just now, armedpoop said:

A lotta "should's" in your response. We dont live in a perfect world, and this just isnt the case. A few months isnt significant to you? Like how long do you honestly expect you Braton to last you?

Because the principles I'm talking about are not currently enacted by DE?... Are we talking about realistic expectations to curb power creep or are you trying to convince me that it's a good idea? You were the one that said a perfect world was one in which DE released dragon prisma primed nikana next month and it one shotted level 110s.

And ideally, braton prime should last forever. I dont' expect it to because DE hasn't earned that kind of respect from me as game designers but it wouldn't be the "feedback" section if I just accepted things as they were.

[armedpoop]

1 minute ago, Gireen said:

"Early WoW", dude. WoW changed. The early equipment that became obsolete is still obsolete but they got better at game design and nowadays they release content and expansions that aren't direct upgrades of the previous.

Yes, League of Legends is a different game. You have still not explained why PvP games are in a different boat than Warframe, and why power creep is necessary in PvE but not PvP. You can't just say "theyre different bandwagon fallacy smh", that's not an argument.

I shouldnt have to explain to you why BALANCE iS A GOOD THING IN A COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT. 

Im not here to educate you, and the fact that you dont understand how power creep is a non issue in a PVE ENVIRONMENT means that im done talking to you. 

You really need to go educate yourself on why games like Counter-Strike havent changed all that much over the last 16 years. You arent worth my time. mate. 

[armedpoop]

8 minutes ago, Gireen said:

Because the principles I'm talking about are not currently enacted by DE?... Are we talking about realistic expectations to curb power creep or are you trying to convince me that it's a good idea? You were the one that said a perfect world was one in which DE released dragon prisma primed nikana next month and it one shotted level 110s.

And ideally, braton prime should last forever. I dont' expect it to because DE hasn't earned that kind of respect from me as game designers but it wouldn't be the "feedback" section if I just accepted things as they were.

Dont put words in my mouth, I never said that, in fact I actually advocated AGAINST something like that. Try reading the thread before popping off like this next time, ok?

On 8/13/2016 at 10:13 PM, armedpoop said:

I disagree completely that powercreep is bad in a PVE focused game, unless that powercreep gets to the point of blowing up the entire map or pressing one button to win. (then again thats not powercreep is it?)

Quote

Yes power creep is fine in warframe as long as it isnt taking massive leaps in power.

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by armedpoop

[Gireen_AEN]

4 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

I shouldnt have to explain to you why BALANCE iS A GOOD THING IN A COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT. 

Im not here to educate you, and the fact that you dont understand how power creep is a non issue in a PVE ENVIRONMENT means that im done talking to you. 

You really need to go educate yourself on why games like Counter-Strike havent changed all that much over the last 16 years. You arent worth my time. mate. 

All you've said so far is that Warframe is under a specific set of circumstances (being a pve MMO) and that means power creep is a good thing. You haven't explained why this is the case, you've just made a blanket statement that all PvE MMOs need to have power creep and asserted that I'm too stupid to be made aware of the reason for this.

What am I supposed to say to that?

Edited August 15, 2016 by Gireen

[Kialandi]

On 14. 8. 2016 at 7:49 AM, Xamuswing said:

On 14. 8. 2016 at 7:19 AM, Alcatraz said:

Oh you must of missed how nasty Fragor P is with 35% base crit chance...

"I'm not talking about something like Primes, which unless bought take a very long time to obtain for all the parts and materials. " Syndicate weapons are also in this.

 

On 14. 8. 2016 at 7:07 AM, Xamuswing said:

You like the Dakra Prime right? Well, toss that crap into the furnace because you can get the new and improved Broken War for absolutely free if you call 1-800 SECOND DREAM, complete with a slot and catalyst. On top of being superior in damage, it's also the definitive sword to use in all cases, outclassing everything in the field.

?

Edited August 15, 2016 by Kialandi

[Gireen_AEN]

2 minutes ago, Kialandi said:

 

?

I think you need to read more closely. Nothing he said was contradictory there.

[SquireAngel]

I think OP is right to a degree. There is definitely a power creep that DE needs to be aware of moving forward. I agree that some stronger weapons need to come into the game, but there also needs to be a definite line that makes older weapons still viable. If DE continues to create a power vacuum, it WILL make many weapons obsolete, and part of WF is customization and loadout choice. I think a good example are the Fragor Prime and Akstilleto prime, and I'll also bring up Vaykor Hek vs Sancti Tigris in a sec. Fragor Prime is a BEAST for single hit strikes, and it's whooping 35% base crit makes it a monster that only needs 2-3 combos to start the red crit chain. However, the Fragor Prime suffer from slow attack speed and TERRIBLE swing radius on a heavy weapon. Even the Heliocor suffers form these symptoms, and I think that there should be clear weaknesses in any given weapon, The Akstilleto Prime is another example of this. It has incredible fire rate and reload speed, and reliable status AND crit chance. However, the lovelies have very low innate dmg, making them fairly weak on dmg on their own. A dedicated crit weapon will do more, as will a dedicated dmg gun. The status is also lower than status specific side arms. There are still more options that fit preferable styles. Our fave shotguns have a good division to give us another example, and a lurking threat that could ruin a good system. The Sancti is an Alpha MONSTER, with incredible innate dmg, and the ability to have insanely high dmg per pellet. It also has a fairly decent status chance, but only has two shots, making the Strun Wraith and Boar Prime much better for straight up status. However, the Vaykor Hek still remains a solid pick for soe, as Punc dmg is much better than slash against armored targets. Tie this in to the Vaykor Hek being the strongest crit based shotgun, and the only one, really, with it's higher accuracy and 8 round clip, giving it clear fields of superiority on the STigris. However, we have the Tigris Prime on the horizon. Now, if DE is smart, they sill simply give things like higher ammo count, a smaller buff to dmg possibly, maybe a status bump, and a higher reload speed. This would have it stay strong as the Tigris family is, without damaging the line formed between types of shotties. 

Many of you claim that Powercreep isn't a bad thing and is inevitable in PVE content, and I agree, to a degree. However, one thing that is unique about warframe is that new content =/= higher challenge or need for stronger equipment. In games like Wow and the like, you have level cap rising and other such things, that require for higher tier gear to show a division between lower and higher content, as there is indeed a growing need for more power/levels against mroe challenging and higher level enemies. Warframe has neither of these, as the power cap for reasonable endless content is much the same, as is the cap on sorties and raids, the highest starting base content. Just as this is the case, so there must be with weapons and power creep, to prevent the lines between the balance of weaponry being blurred out. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by SquireAngel

[at35z]

16 hours ago, DSpite said:

I fail to see why you would care.

Are you seriously playing a game purely to pick whatever best DPS stick comes out or are you playing for fun? If you have this outlook of just chucking things away the moment something similar comes out with 10% better DPS, sounds to me you are playing for the wrong reasons.

I specifically joined a pretty loose Guild Wars 2 guild to play for fun, and not join "must be optimal at all costs or gtfo" because that is exactly the mentality that makes for no-fun-allowed gameplay.

There is times to go optimal and times to play for fun. You should do more of the latter.

Exactly.

I'm MR18, have been playing for 3 years, since the open beta started. In the past I cared about the strongest weapons as well, and shat on the weak ones. Then I realized that is simply not fun at all and started getting my weapons based on how much I enjoy using them. Since then I love the game much more. I try out new and interesting weapons much more often and keep them if I enjoy using them. I don't even care that they can't kill level 300 enemies with a single bullet, that's not the point of the game.

Of course, it's recommended to have 1 or 2 "strong" weapons in case you really need some damage, but don't use them all the time because it will get boring as hell.

But this is just my opinion and experience. If you don't want to use a weak weapon because it's a waste of a weapon slot then go play with your Boltor Prime 0-24 and complain about it being OP on forums, see how quick that will change.

[chaotea]

On 14/08/2016 at 6:13 AM, armedpoop said:

Heres the thing though: Why would you ever use or want to get another weapon if it was somehow weaker or the same as the one you are currently using? 

 

As the game progresses, new things that are added get stronger. If this didnt happen, the game would be pretty boring.

Of the weapons you listed, the newest gear is stronger. In the case of Despair vs Spira, the Despair is WAY older. So what if you spent alotta time getting stronger with that piece of gear? Ultimately you can still use that piece of gear, especially now since you really dont need THAT much power for any of the game's current content. 

I disagree completely that powercreep is bad in a PVE focused game, unless that powercreep gets to the point of blowing up the entire map or pressing one button to win. (then again thats not powercreep is it?)

Im with you, still i can understand that some people get a weapon they really like, but it ends up falling behind. I'd like to see DE create some sort of forma-like item that could be applied to a weapon to boost its stats to a high-level, final tier point. Item would need to be rare, perhaps unlocked though completing a end game quest then farmable though certain alerts or something.

[Kialandi]

15 minutes ago, Gireen said:

I think you need to read more closely. Nothing he said was contradictory there.

Yes, he did. I just quoted it in wrong order.

OP's 1st and 2nd paragraphs:

1) "There is nothing more frustrating than investing time, energy, and potentially money into a weapon or other item only for a more powerful version to be released later that outclasses it in almost every way. I'm not talking about something like Primes"

2) "You like the Dakra Prime right?"

 

Someone points out Fragor Prime with 35% crit chance

OP's reaction:

3)  "I'm not talking about something like Primes, which unless bought take a very long time to obtain for all the parts and materials. " Syndicate weapons are also in this.

 

He is not talking about Primes. In next paragraph he uses Prime weapon as an example. That's contradictory enough.

Then he disapproves when someone else uses Prime weapon as an example. That's just BS.

[Epsik-kun]

1 hour ago, Gireen said:

Bullsh1t. League of Legends releases champion after champion that are all sidegrades to the hundreds of others and somehow manages to get people interested enough to buy their skins.

To claim that power creep is necessary because "how else would DE get people to look for new warframes" is a pile of crap. They should get out of game design if the only incentive they can think of for farming new equipment is to give it bigger stats. Making intriguing, original concepts for warframes and weapons that stand on their own is their JOB.

You are essentially saying that Diablo should use Counter-Strike's weapons model. That's far from being the smartest thing you can say.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[SquireAngel]

24 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

You are essentially saying that Diablo should use Counter-Strike's weapons model. That's far from being the smartest thing you can say.

Not really, he's saying that WF should use WF's system. Warframes, are a great example of how the power creep doesn't exist amongst them. Primes are the only form of an upgrade, and their stat increases are only marginal. A good nova build is just as good on a Nova Prime, and vice versa, as is the case with Excal, Ember, Vauban, Frost, Saryn, Edit YUP LIMBO HAS A PRIME Loki, Mag...Need I go on? These upgrades are better, to be sure, but only to the degree that they have something more to them than a cosmetic skin. A great example is the Heliocor VS Fragor Prime. The Fragor Prime is superior in dmg, but the Heliocor can SCAN TARGETS. It's a unique trait that sets it apart. However, when compared to the Jat kittag, it starts to outshine it. DE DID make the decision to decrease it's attack speed, and the Kittag has a splosion mod, so it still has great appeal. However, We're soon to get the Synoid Heliocor, which could put it on par or higher than the Fragor Prime. It's this kinda power creep without something unique that worries players. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by SquireAngel
Mixed up Limbo and Loki, they both start With L, right?

[Roachester]

On 8/14/2016 at 0:13 AM, armedpoop said:

As the game progresses, new things that are added get stronger.

 

On 8/14/2016 at 0:13 AM, armedpoop said:

especially now since you really dont need THAT much power for any of the game's current content. 

I think this right here is the main problem, though. There's nothing inherently wrong with a game receiving more and more powerful equipment as time goes on, since progression is definitely important, but... Warframe simply isn't progressing anymore. At this point in time, progression has come to a grinding halt. We're not getting any new high level planets/nodes to go to, and we're not getting any higher level content outside of raids and sorties, so there's no logical reason to keep releasing buffed up versions of weapons that are already insanely good, and yet it keeps happening over and over again.

The Dakra Prime was considered the single best one-handed sword in the entire game, so why did they release the Broken War, a straight upgrade of it? I mean, what are we supposed to use it on? Enemies that the Dakra Prime could ALREADY easily destroy? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

The devs can keep creating new and more powerful toys for us until their hands fall off, but until we start seeing some more proper progression in this game, it's just going to keep pissing people off. 

[SquireAngel]

3 minutes ago, Roachester said:

 

I think this right here is the main problem, though. There's nothing inherently wrong with a game receiving more and more powerful equipment as time goes on, since progression is definitely important, but... Warframe simply isn't progressing anymore. At this point in time, progression has come to a grinding halt. We're not getting any new high level planets/nodes to go to, and we're not getting any higher level content outside of raids and sorties, so there's no logical reason to keep releasing buffed up versions of weapons that are already insanely good, and yet it keeps happening over and over again.

The Dakra Prime was considered the single best one-handed sword in the entire game, so why did they release the Broken War, a straight upgrade of it? I mean, what are we supposed to use it on? Enemies that the Dakra Prime could ALREADY easily destroy? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

The devs can keep creating new and more powerful toys for us until their hands fall off, but until we start seeing some more proper progression in this game, it's just going to keep pissing people off. 

This is such a good example. The Broken War COULD have pulled from War's example; been a very high dmg impact weapon, but DE instead just 1 upped the Dakra with a crappier weapon model =/ (Which is totally my opinion on the model, fact still stands it's just an upgrade for no reason)

Edited August 15, 2016 by SquireAngel

[armedpoop]

1 hour ago, chaotea said:

Im with you, still i can understand that some people get a weapon they really like, but it ends up falling behind. I'd like to see DE create some sort of forma-like item that could be applied to a weapon to boost its stats to a high-level, final tier point. Item would need to be rare, perhaps unlocked though completing a end game quest then farmable though certain alerts or something.

Somebody in another topic actually recently suggested something like this, but the problem with it is: whats to stop you from using it on the best gear in game currently?

24 minutes ago, Roachester said:

 

I think this right here is the main problem, though. There's nothing inherently wrong with a game receiving more and more powerful equipment as time goes on, since progression is definitely important, but... Warframe simply isn't progressing anymore. At this point in time, progression has come to a grinding halt. We're not getting any new high level planets/nodes to go to, and we're not getting any higher level content outside of raids and sorties, so there's no logical reason to keep releasing buffed up versions of weapons that are already insanely good, and yet it keeps happening over and over again.

The Dakra Prime was considered the single best one-handed sword in the entire game, so why did they release the Broken War, a straight upgrade of it? I mean, what are we supposed to use it on? Enemies that the Dakra Prime could ALREADY easily destroy? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

The devs can keep creating new and more powerful toys for us until their hands fall off, but until we start seeing some more proper progression in this game, it's just going to keep pissing people off. 

This is a fari point, though i think its foolish to think that warframe will stay this way. Its really all dependant on how they decide to revamp endless mission's rewards, or if they make endless void missions a thing again. 

[Epsik-kun]

37 minutes ago, SquireAngel said:

Not really, he's saying that WF should use WF's system. Warframes, are a great example of how the power creep doesn't exist amongst them. Primes are the only form of an upgrade, and their stat increases are only marginal. A good nova build is just as good on a Nova Prime, and vice versa, as is the case with Excal, Ember, Vauban, Frost, Saryn, Edit YUP LIMBO HAS A PRIME Loki, Mag...Need I go on? These upgrades are better, to be sure, but only to the degree that they have something more to them than a cosmetic skin. A great example is the Heliocor VS Fragor Prime. The Fragor Prime is superior in dmg, but the Heliocor can SCAN TARGETS. It's a unique trait that sets it apart. However, when compared to the Jat kittag, it starts to outshine it. DE DID make the decision to decrease it's attack speed, and the Kittag has a splosion mod, so it still has great appeal. However, We're soon to get the Synoid Heliocor, which could put it on par or higher than the Fragor Prime. It's this kinda power creep without something unique that worries players. 

And Warframe is essentially Diablo.

Yes, it's good to have sidegrades here and there, but if you make everything into them - the game will lose its purpose.

You might not realize it, but Warframe is a bad shooting game. It's a bad hack'n'slash game. It's a bad parkour game. What works for it is the way all these elements are incorporated together. The way they work. It's fun to experiment with builds from time to time, but if you want to make this "experimenting" to be the selling point of the game - you'll fail. Warframe has no gameplay to support such policy. Even more, very few games out there can hold up to that standard.

In such game you have to have a purpose. A reason to play. Current reason is the constant progression. The grind. Warframe is a game about grind. You grind a lot and you get rewarded with new stuff, new tools for more efficient grind, new limits you can try to break. Remove that, and you'll have a very "meh" beat'em'up game with guns and no content, that'll keep you interested for maybe 50 hours while it's a fresh experience. Which is actually pretty good amount of time, for a single-player game that's it. I have over a thousand of hours in Warframe exactly because of the illusion of progress. Remove that - and you'll remove the reason for me to play this game. And not only for me - for the vast majority of the people, including the ones who cry about "powercreep".

Now, there are bad cases - there always are. Like Broken War example, that made obsolete every other weapon of the category, followed by new mods that made the whole weapon category obsolete. However, this is an example of a bad design decision, not of a faulty system.

Primed frames and weapons are an amazing idea - they give you something to work towards. New mods are an amazing thing - again, they give you a reason to play the game. They give you an opportunity to experiment with something new. Primed Pressure Points and Primed Fury were an amazing addition for everyone who goes "sword only" into the game - after almost a year of zero progression, we finally got an opportunity to become stronger.

Having a lot of viable sidegrades is good, really good. But you need power tiers. You need weak starting weapons, you need middle-ground that can carry you through the game and you need viable late-game gear that allows you to push your limits. All of these create the purpose of playing the game. And especially for people who already on this stage of "viable late-game gear" you have to add new content that surpasses the current one, otherwise these people will lose interest to play.

[armedpoop]

2 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

-snip-

Very well said. You have much more patience than I do. Maybe you can get through to some of the people here. (though I doubt it honestly) 

[SquireAngel]

45 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

-Snip-

I get what you're trying to say, but once again, there needs to be a defining limit. Yes there should be lower tiers and higher tiers, but there needs to be a powercap at some point, before all weapons outside those given few are obsolete, or you need highest tier versions of ALL the options. If you think Wf is only about the grind, clearly you miss that MMO part of this game. The fun to be had is in challenge, in new items, and in fuckin around with buddies. Yes, there aren't versions of all the weapon options at the highest tier, but you shouldn't create a new power tier while you're still fleshing out the current one. 

[Epsik-kun]

11 minutes ago, SquireAngel said:

If you think Wf is only about the grind

If you think it's not, you are the one who misses the point of this game. It's pretty subpar in everything else, including "The fun to be had is in challenge, in new items, and in fuckin around with buddies"

[SquireAngel]

10 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

If you think it's not, you are the one who misses the point of this game. It's pretty subpar in everything else, including "The fun to be had is in challenge, in new items, and in fuckin around with buddies"

If you believe it's subpar in everything else, I don't really think you should be expressing your opinion. You don't invest time and energy into a 'subpar' game, you play games to have fun. There is a metric fuckton of grinding in WF, and it is the point for quite awhile, but eventually you break the surface of the water and hit the top. Sure, it's nice to have some new waves and depth to explore from time to time, but that's not the point of Warframe. The point of any game is to have fun, is it not? Getting new items to mess around with is fun, messing around with buddies is fun, being challenged and push to the edge is fun. There is SOME fun to be had in the rewards from grinding, and the grinding portion can be some fun to a degree, more so with buddies to mess around with, but the main part of warframe isn't the act of grinding. Clearly, you should be playing a different game if you aren't having fun with WF. It doesn't make you wrong, or WF wrong, it makes Wf wrong for you as a player with differing tastes, and it makes you wrong for WF as a player who doesn't enjoy WF. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by SquireAngel

[chaotea]

1 hour ago, armedpoop said:

Somebody in another topic actually recently suggested something like this, but the problem with it is: whats to stop you from using it on the best gear in game currently?

Nothing, the idea would be that this highest tier level would be a flat rate for all weapons. Eg: If you rated one weapon at 20, and another at 70, after the item is used they would both go to 100 (some variation would be available to take into account unique weapon traits). But im talking about super end game. Like, slap-a-new-layer-of-enemy-difficulty-end-of-game. The better your weapon is, the less this 'investment' would pay off, but seeing as all weapons would be roughly equal afterwards, it would just come to personal preference.

[IceColdHawk]

On 14.8.2016 at 7:07 AM, Xamuswing said:

You like the Dakra Prime right? Well, toss that crap into the furnace because you can get the new and improved Broken War for absolutely free if you call 1-800 SECOND DREAM, complete with a slot and catalyst. On top of being superior in damage, it's also the definitive sword to use in all cases, outclassing everything in the field.

 

On 14.8.2016 at 7:13 AM, armedpoop said:

Heres the thing though: Why would you ever use or want to get another weapon if it was somehow weaker or the same as the one you are currently using? 

 

As the game progresses, new things that are added get stronger. If this didnt happen, the game would be pretty boring.

I can agree with both parties.

I would get sick of only seeing MR fodder coming at me. But i also get sick when i see all the unbalanced mess that is completely nullifying progression. Dragon Nikana? MR8....or just buy a nikana prime from trading that is for MR0 people...so once you get to trading with MR2. Zhuge? It carries you through everything with ease properly modded, MR0. Or tonkor, hardest-hitting gun already available at MR5. While stradavar which is a pure MR fodder gets MR8. Once you reach MR8, you already have tons of better alternatives ready than stradavar.

So, unless DE finally gets their balancing, MR Requirement sorting and progressioning sense right, we will probably be seeing more shutdowns like how broken war, available from MR4 quest just makes all single swords redundant.

MR18 being stronger than the lower MR weapons in it's class? Alright, why not? Why shouldn't the "higher ranked" tenno be able to get their hands on more advanced and stronger weapons anyway? That's not powercreep, that's progression. But when a gun replaces everything on it's level and even some above it, now that is just powercreep.

[Epsik-kun]

38 minutes ago, SquireAngel said:

The point of any game is to have fun, is it not?

And the Kirby and Quake 3: Arena is essentially the same game. Because the point is to have "fun".

Darling, if you think that Warframe isn't massively subpar in its shooter, melee and parkour aspects, you are in heavy denial. However, I never said that Warframe is a subpar game. I like it a lot, otherwise I wouldn't play it for as long as I had.

"Video games are for fun" is another buzz that keeps coming up time after time. Is playing simple puzzles fun? Is finding objects on a static image fun? Is staring at meaningless mass of ASCII symbols trying to figure what's going on fun? Is dedicating over five years of your life to repetitive training and polishing your skills in a fighting game fun? 

"Fun" is subjective.

And because of the fact "fun" is subjective, we have multiple genres in the gaming industry. And whether you like it or not, Warframe excels at "grinding games" front - that's a fact. If you want a shooter - there are hundreds of games that do shooting better than Warframe. If you want melee - there are dozens of games that do it better than Warframe. If you want a parkour game - Warframe yet again comes as a worse one. And even if you want a game that has shooting, melee and parkour together - there are still some games that do it on pair or better than Warframe.

But when it comes to the actual grinding - there aren't a lot of games that have a similar model to Warframe. Very few that make it work. And pretty much none, when it comes to integrating that with the actual gameplay of Warframe. This is what makes Warframe work. This is what makes it unique and "good".

If you definition of "fun" is to be "jerking around with buddies", something like Garry's Mod or Minecraft is a much, much better option for you, than Warframe. If you can't objectively see the strong and the weak sides of this game, and especially if you're a casual player who is fine with whatever as long as it's "fun" - you're the one who has no say in this game balancing, as you simply have no idea what are you talking about.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[ashrah]

in every game u have good and bad wepons....and in game who dont have clear concept...u must add stuf to keep game live

[SquireAngel]

1 minute ago, Epsik-kun said:

If you definition of "fun" is to be "jerking around with buddies", something like Garry's Mod or Minecraft is a much, much better option for you, than Warframe. If you can't objectively see the strong and the weak sides of this game, and especially if you're a casual player who is fine with whatever as long as it's "fun" - you're the one who has no say in this game balancing, as you simply have no idea what are you talking about.

Here in lies the problem. You claim that WF should toss balance out the window, in favor of a never ending powercreep, but in the same stroke believe that the game should be balanced? Also, you bring up being too casual, but you're off there. Messing around with friends can mean that one time I tried to havea  buddy with Volt and his speed augment try to become a shredding battering ram by grabbing vauban and his Tesla Link augment (which didn't work, much to my dismay), But also gearing up and running a 43k cryotic run on Triton, or what ever the Neptune excavation is now. You seem to endorse this powerdash, rather than a glacier like pace for a creep. I myself have said that until DE comes out with higher tier content, there should be a cap to how high the creep goes. Fact is, even with current power as it is, the right squad will still cheese lvl 9999 enemies, easily. Hell, an Ivara with CV can do it solo. You keep on insisting that we need more powerful weapons, when we need more content to burn in general. Higher guns should only come after we gain a new tier of challenge that calls for more powerful weapons. 

Another issue with creep is how heavily invested you get in some of your guns. Some of these suckers call for 6 forma to properly maximize, and you want DE to have us burn those quickly, in favor of some new stronger, shinier toy? I don't think we should never get guns worth taking into battle, but neither should we ave to sacrifice EVERY weapon we've had to invest forma, time, and tatters into. This new Tigris prime? It's been...oh, at least 6 months since Sancti came out. I definitely think we coulda used another prime, as ST is hella strong already, but I think ST has earned the forma put into it and can be retired easily if TP is strong enough to put it to shame. If DE put out weapons more powerful than any other every few weeks, it wouldn't be worth grinding up the forma on a weapon to bring out the maximum. You'd invest 4-6 forma and then have to do it again in 2 weeks on the next stronger wep. In trying to make the grind portion 'more fun', you would take out the point behind grinding, making older guns horribly obsolete, creating a HUGE barrier between new and older players, and effectively driving new players, the most important part to WF's trade and influx of demands for mods and prime bits, away. This would strangle the game so ultimately, that eventually, there would be no trade, there would be no guns worth investing platinum in for wallet warriors, chocking off DE's paycheck, and generally putting the game into a downward spiral.