Relics and the new void... its unfair and broken.

[Top_Kekkonen]

1 hour ago, morningstar999 said:

up until the new system i didn't find it that hard. and I could key share with friends -only bonus is now is you get to pick out a reward. (but only one 1 and it'll cost everyone a relic) 

again I don't think they should get rid of the new void rather give us the option of earning prime parts in another way; bring back something akin to the old void. 

more choice is better for everyone. 

 

More choices is ridiculous. One system will be predominantly picked, making the other one obsolete.

[(PSN)mr_chainsaw555]

don't know about you but the new void system has been treating me fairly well, could've been worse, could've been better, but eh, what can you do? feels a lot better for me than the old system where that one part was exclusively in t3/t4 defense or t1 exterminate (which drove me nuts like you wouldn't believe)

the only real issues i'm having with it right now are the relics' drop rate (which is being addressed slowly but surely) and the void trace farming aspect (would prefer there be bundles of it in the void (to give it a new purpose), but i'll live with what we got in regards to running fissures without relics to get traces for now)

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

After trying it out.. even though I got a few parts with relative ease. I'd take the old way of doing things over the headache causes by organizing random people who don't understand or are trying to see if they can scam you even though you repeatedly ask for a radiant relic. I don't know man. At least with the old system I didn't have to deal with all that nonsense where I'm waiting to find an actual group to go off without a hitch. 

[Top_Kekkonen]

Prime part grinding has turned into relic grinding. I hope they won't make more relics.

[morningstar999]

8 minutes ago, Harowing said:

This is just sad... How is 1:10 fair? and 1:1 unfair? Equal numbers, you're just used to the old system where it gives players advantage which is pretty unfair on the system side. Now that DE has turned it into a 1:1 ratio, players are complaining their not getting more stuff which is really sick and tiring. 

For people who have spent in Warframe, DE is NOT forcing you to do so, not even tempting you to purchase the Prime Access. Purchasing Platinum via real cash is your OWN decision, not theirs. If you feel tempted to do so due to laziness, then the problem is with you. Not them.

its 4 relics to one part? thats really not fair, and most of the time you rarely got 10+ parts in one go, it was just possible to do so if you wanted to go for that long. you had to really earn it at that point. 

if making you grind for like 40 hours for one part not trying to force you I don't know what is....

[Magnulast]

9 minutes ago, Omnipower said:

Yeah but that brings on an entirely different topic so yeah until they fix it we are at a stand still.

 

Yeah but with void 2.0 they switch sides now its those that loved survival and defense that are suffering. Many of them would rather stay in a mission and get a chance of more prime per 5 rounds/minutes/waves but now they like you are  now forced to play for a set time for one reward of choice.

Im sure thats why many ppl wish for both not one or the other so we can all enjoy what we like. Like i said im sorry if it sounds mean but hoping DE takes the middle ground with their idea for making long winded missions like old void again.

I just had no clue what you said. It wasn't clear enough in the previous reply.

Yes, I do understand it has been flipped, but I'd rather keep the new void against the one-sided old void.

Namely, because the new one can be adjusted to fit the old void style. Except, I really think they should make the choices a split between endless/objective-end for each tier on void fissures alert.

[K0bra]

I dont understand how people like the new system.I have so much keys.They are useless now.I dont want to sell things(most people dont buy older things) or farm with them for ducats.
This is not okay that i sit on a huge number of keys(that i farmed with alot of time and efford) that are useless now and i have to farm the new ones.Thats clearly more grind.

Edited August 23, 2016 by K0bra

[DarkOvion]

6 minutes ago, Harowing said:

This is just sad... How is 1:10 fair? and 1:1 unfair? Equal numbers, you're just used to the old system where it gives players advantage which is pretty unfair on the system side. Now that DE has turned it into a 1:1 ratio, players are complaining their not getting more stuff which is really sick and tiring. 

One thing you don't know and refuse to see that with each new Prime Access, you generally don't have to swarm in one place to grab the new stuff. They'll stay there for a while which gives ample time for players to do normal missions and get the new relics along the way. Those players who are in a HURRY to get the shiny stuff and don't get it are the ones who have the tendency to complain because they refuse to play the game normally and just bumrush into places unknown. You've seen the location of the new relics but people are swarming Hieracon and Bere... there are tons of other locations you can get the Relics and you can just play around with the other nodes.

For people who have spent in Warframe, DE is NOT forcing you to do so, not even tempting you to purchase the Prime Access. Purchasing Platinum via real cash is your OWN decision, not theirs. If you feel tempted to do so due to laziness, then the problem is with you. Not them.

See before, it was a choice.

You could pay to get things with bonuses, or spend time in game to get it. You got it immediately and with more for buying, and it was a reasonable choice - you paid because you liked the game or wanted quickly, and the 'relative value' was reasonable - 2-3 times 'time value' to money.

Now, it's a full time job to get stuff. The 'relative value' is now insane - 10-20 or more times 'time value' to money. You would literally have to do a 9-5 for 1-2+ weeks to get the relics, parts and materials.

Meaning it's not something fun, it's not a real choice, it's - you can buy it, or take months to years to get a thing.

 

And it's not a 1:1 rate, it's 4:1.

We went from a squad of 4 using 1 Key = 1 Reward / 2 Rewards (if Sab, all Caches) / 1 chance per 5 minutes/rounds

Meaning a squad of 4, that farmed 1 key (4 total), would get 4 missions, for a total of 4:16, 4:32, 4:X

To a squad of 4 farming 1 relic (4 total) gets 1 reward. Mission is always exterminate in another mission. Drop rates are the same or worse as before.

So that is a minimum of 16-32 times grinder per part, before taking into account 'void traces', and now new parts needing relics farmed from scratch.

 

This isn't even about 'being in a hurry', I and many others are fine waiting 1-2 weeks of playing 1-2 hours a day to get something.

But it taking months unless you spend 8+ hours a day grinding unless you buy it is not reasonable.

[K0bra]

1 minute ago, DarkOvion said:

See before, it was a choice.

You could pay to get things with bonuses, or spend time in game to get it. You got it immediately and with more for buying, and it was a reasonable choice - you paid because you liked the game or wanted quickly, and the 'relative value' was reasonable - 2-3 times 'time value' to money.

Now, it's a full time job to get stuff. The 'relative value' is now insane - 10-20 or more times 'time value' to money. You would literally have to do a 9-5 for 1-2+ weeks to get the relics, parts and materials.

Meaning it's not something fun, it's not a real choice, it's - you can buy it, or take months to years to get a thing.

 

And it's not a 1:1 rate, it's 4:1.

We went from a squad of 4 using 1 Key = 1 Reward / 2 Rewards (if Sab, all Caches) / 1 chance per 5 minutes/rounds

Meaning a squad of 4, that farmed 1 key (4 total), would get 4 missions, for a total of 4:16, 4:32, 4:X

To a squad of 4 farming 1 relic (4 total) gets 1 reward. Mission is always exterminate in another mission. Drop rates are the same or worse as before.

So that is a minimum of 16-32 times grinder per part, before taking into account 'void traces', and now new parts needing relics farmed from scratch.

 

This isn't even about 'being in a hurry', I and many others are fine waiting 1-2 weeks of playing 1-2 hours a day to get something.

But it taking months unless you spend 8+ hours a day grinding unless you buy it is not reasonable.

^^Thats the truth but some ppl dont get it.

[DarkOvion]

11 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Is it any different from before?

At least now instead of worrying about what you're going to get at the end of 20, 40, 60 or even more minutes of a mission you should be concerned about what your buddies' relics are going to yield at the end of some short mission.

Like I said, there needs to be a more efficient way of getting the relics you want but not to the point where you can just get something from nothing.

Everything takes longer, much.

And on top of that, what little challenge there could be before is gone.

It's a case of taking longer, and being even more insanely boring and repetitive.

[Tricky5hift]

4 minutes ago, K0bra said:

I dont understand how people like the new system.I have so much keys.They are useless now.I dont want to sell things(most people dont buy older things) or farm with them for ducats.
This is not okay that i sit on a huge number of keys(that i farmed with alot of time and efford) that are useless now and i have to farm the new ones.Thats clearly more grind.

I wonder who's problem is that.

[K0bra]

3 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

I wonder who's problem is that.

OFC i sit hours in the trading chat and sell useless old void items who nobody buys.I have nothing better to do or i farm ducats that i cant use because its always the same stuff avaiable and isnt worth spending a single ducat.Thx to Baro.

Just wow.

Edited August 23, 2016 by K0bra

[DarkOvion]

13 minutes ago, Top_Kekkonen said:

More choices is ridiculous. One system will be predominantly picked, making the other one obsolete.

More choice is ALWAYS better than less choice.

Removing options is almost never a good thing.

Having the option of both the old Void Farm and new Relics (with Keys and Relics being interchangeable) would increase options and  keep all parties happy. (Or at least happier)

[Tricky5hift]

Just now, K0bra said:

OFC i sit hours in the trading chat and sell useless old void items who nobody buys.I have nothing better to do or i farm ducats that i have more that i dont need because its always the same stuff avaiable and isnt worth spending a single ducat.

Just wow.

Then if you're so bored why not just farm the new relics instead of just asking DE to do all that for you?

In the end, after you get what you wanted your relics are only going to be come "useless" to you again.

[K0bra]

8 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Then if you're so bored why not just farm the new relics instead of just asking DE to do all that for you?

In the end, after you get what you wanted your relics are only going to be come "useless" to you again.

Why they made my relics useless in  the first place?They were for years good and useful.The old system was boring and crap but making the relics after the change useless was a **** move.I just hate it.

Edited August 23, 2016 by K0bra

[ranks21]

this is soo good,  I guess the cow didn't knew how "valuable" his tail was until it was lost.>> giggles, snickers, laughs out loudly.  I just love the circus..

[h41pa]

well i'm agree with you... 

but np i jsut bought eso  and its time to take a break from warframe maybe next year will be better..

[VCaptiion]

Not questioning the droprate but this is just stupid.

All of them are RADIANT and you give us this?

Why can't we even have 2 rare in one run, not even a ducat fodder, really?

How is it called RANDOM if I got these in merely less than 10 runs?

Where's the feature of "Choosing your teammates reward"?

Apparently this is seriously manipulated and IT'S WORSE THAN OLD VOID.

Edited August 23, 2016 by VCaptiion

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Still farming relics, im done, i will buy Galatine Prime.

WTB Galatine Prime set

[morningstar999]

1 minute ago, Kaiser_Suoh said:

Still farming relics, im done, i will buy Galatine Prime.

WTB Galatine Prime set

 it will be easier to sell some other stuff and just buy the parts than grind for days. 

 

 

[(PSN)McDrewski]

I miss 60+ minute survivals...I guess I can do ODS now for relics but that just somehow seems different

I also hate having to memorize all the odd names for relics: why do they have to have like 9 different liths, neos, axis, mesas etc..  Yes, the old void had just as many tiers and whatnot but it used names the game spent hundreds of hours familiarizing me with; interception, defense, survival, etc...  Okay now that I vented back to farming tigris p!

[(XBOX)BULLS 0N PAR4DE]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)McDrewski said:

I miss 60+ minute survivals...I guess I can do ODS now for relics but that just somehow seems different

I also hate having to memorize all the odd names for relics: why do they have to have like 9 different liths, neos, axis, mesas etc..  Yes, the old void had just as many tiers and whatnot but it used names the game spent hundreds of hours familiarizing me with; interception, defense, survival, etc...  Okay now that I vented back to farming tigris p!

ANI void survival gave me 6 relics in a 40 minute run. I do not understand why people think the void is useless and pointless.

 As for the OP I don't understand why everyone thinks that new primes are supposed to be farmed the first few hour of release.  Yes I agree that the grind is getting longer and the rules have changed. If you are in it for the long haul time is on your side for sure. I see a lot of vets are up in arms because their comfort zone has been removed(stoke piles of keys) but the key system has been abused for years so it is not surprising it has changed. I have thousands of keys so I am in the same boat. Then again I still remember what it was like having to grind T3S keys on LUA for days to get the new gear.

 

[(PSN)DBR87]

3 hours ago, WolfTitan said:

This.

I couldn't agree more.

Also, now that the new prime parts can only be acquired using Relics that we do not have, we will need to do missions and hope that they give the Relic that we need for the specific prime part. And since there are a huge number of different types of Relics, the chances of getting the Relic we need are slim to none. After getting the Relic, we need to use traces to upgrade them, which will require more grind. After upgrading them, we need to do the Voice Fissure mission and hope that it will reward the prime part that we want. You can see that by the end of this equation, the chances of actually getting the desired prime part is extremely low and time consuming.

In summary to get the new prime part:

• Farm for the new relic.
  • Low chance due to the # of different existing relics
• Farm for Void traces.
• Upgrade the relic as necessary.
• Do the Void Fissure mission and hope it rewards the desired prime part.
  • Low chance due to the size of the reward pool.
  • You might argue that your chances increase if you have squad members. But realize that those members would have to go through the same process.
    • This means the chance that you will find a squad member who has the same relic who desires the same prime part is slim to none.
• Rinse and repeat.

As easily demonstrated above, the new system has significantly increased the amount of grind while reducing variety and fun. In the old system, players could play an endless Void mission for an hour to try to get there part they need while being challenged with different Void mission types and by increasing enemy difficulty. Now, it's all about killing spawned Void enemies and collecting 10 Reactants each time. How boring is that?

 

Quoted for truth.

The new Relic system not only increases the grind but adds in more RNG if you do random matchmaking and further gates Prime Parts from players. Consoles just recently got the void update. I have been playing this game for 2 years and had hundreds of keys. I haven't been able to play this past week because of moving from East USA to West USA. I come back to find all my keys turned into Relics and I have no Traces. I have to use my Relics in random mission selected by DE in order to farm Traces so I can then use my Relics to farm parts.

How do people not see how backwards this is? All to increase my 1% chance of getting the part I want to a 10% chance?

This system especially nerfed Survival, Defense, and Interception keys. At least I could save keys by staying longer. This system burns more Keys/Relics then the old system did.

[(PSN)O_o_II_II_o_O]

1 hour ago, (XB1)BULLS 0N PAR4DE said:

ANI void survival gave me 6 relics in a 40 minute run. I do not understand why people think the void is useless and pointless.

 As for the OP I don't understand why everyone thinks that new primes are supposed to be farmed the first few hour of release.  Yes I agree that the grind is getting longer and the rules have changed. If you are in it for the long haul time is on your side for sure. I see a lot of vets are up in arms because their comfort zone has been removed(stoke piles of keys) but the key system has been abused for years so it is not surprising it has changed. I have thousands of keys so I am in the same boat. Then again I still remember what it was like having to grind T3S keys on LUA for days to get the new gear.

 

Do you get the irony though?

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

There is so much Salt here I could season like four slabs of ribs.  Okay where do I start.

1. It was stated in the developer Forums about how the relics would function.  Each relic from each different era holds a specific set of parts. When a new Prime would be released the oldest prime would be removed. Normally this would be the parts simply removed from the key; instead they remain in the game and only the relics of that era are removed.  This in turn frees up slots in all relic tables allowing new relics to be placed without messing up the ratios. Therefore farming relics holds the same chances it always had.

2. This "unfairness"(yeah air quotations were used) that you are claiming is pretty outrageous because considering everyone starts from scratch sounds pretty darn fair to me.  This gives prime access more appeal and allows the buyers to be special snowflakes for at least a few hours before the grind-build-play rushers get a hold of him.  The claim that 'EVERYONE who didn't BUY PA having to grind new relics is unfair' is blatant entitlement.

Now with those two MAJOR points out the way here's my take on your argument as a whole.  I know that most of the time DE does some silly things to promote buying their products, which they should as they are a company, nitain requirements are some of the most blatant ones I can think of. It should have come as no surprise that this is the route they would have taken considering that Mag prime relics are still in some players inventories even though she is vaulted. If you started grinding relics in hopes that you'd have a head start, that's really tough luck.  I spent all of last week trying to tell people that when the PA dropped that all of the new gear would have their own relics.  They dismissed me stating quote "Everyone knows that Nxy is going to be vaulted so all Nekros stuff will be in her relics." I shook my head and after 2 more days of trying to talk sense into people I gave up because it was pointless.  Now all of that grinding has yielded nothing and they flock to the forums to complain.  For what? That the relics they got are 'useless' or is it because you want just compensation for time YOU wasted willingly? Everyone started with absolutely no relics to farm Nekros and immediately it's unfair? I see no logic to this as considering everyone is starting this grind for the first PA in the relic system(at least on console) from scratch. It makes a whole lotta sense that F2P Tenno all start EQUAL with NO RELICS.  If you want Nekros so bad,so quickly, buy PA, support the devs for the work they do and try not to act like they owe you anything. Yes they deserve criticism on most things, but this is not one of them because EVERYONE is having to hunt these relics.

TL;DR This is fair because everyone has to start over.  Let this be a lesson going forward that each new prime will have its own relics, even the vaulted primes. Also PA is now more appealing so more revenue for the Devs.